firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, and it was one of the open questions at the time, especially since Bouchard rejected the notion that anyone would be allowed to separate from Quebec under similar conditions.
Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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gutter_trash
Banned
Quebec will never separate. The more time passes by, the least likely it is for Quebec to ever secede.
-growing ethnic minority population grows more and more = more Federalist voters
-Francophone youth want to be connected and more plugged into the World Wide Web and are now more wordly than their parents and generatiosn past.
-the souverenist movement was mainly a generational movement comprised mostly of Baby Boomers who participated the Quiet Revolution. Now they are in their 60s and 70s. Their generation is fleeting.
But we still should not forgive the NDP for recruiting souvernists into its fold. You got a ptential Brian Mulroney clusterfuck situation that could be repeted again like when Lucien Bouchard of the Progressive Conservatives created the Bloc along with many Quebec Conservatives jumping ship to the Bloc.
-growing ethnic minority population grows more and more = more Federalist voters
-Francophone youth want to be connected and more plugged into the World Wide Web and are now more wordly than their parents and generatiosn past.
-the souverenist movement was mainly a generational movement comprised mostly of Baby Boomers who participated the Quiet Revolution. Now they are in their 60s and 70s. Their generation is fleeting.
But we still should not forgive the NDP for recruiting souvernists into its fold. You got a ptential Brian Mulroney clusterfuck situation that could be repeted again like when Lucien Bouchard of the Progressive Conservatives created the Bloc along with many Quebec Conservatives jumping ship to the Bloc.
Awesome. :lol
That's way better than the Jim Flaherty homeless quote because I know a bunch of people who agree with Flaherty.
That's... insane.
moar: https://www.facebook.com/youngliberals
Hmm, I dunno, seems like Flanagan would fit in here at GAF...
Hey now, if they're in jail, at least they get a warm bed, a roof over their heads, and three free square meals a day /conservativesmugtroll
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I just saw the news about the BC Liberal ethnic outreach memo. God damn, there really is no difference between the Conservatives and the Liberals is there? lol
The "Inside Baseball" of politics is some shameless shit no matter which party is involved. If memos like that surprise you, you're naive.
This does not mean that there is "no difference" between Conservatives and Liberals, or Liberals and NDPers.
The BC Liberals really are supposedly aligned more closely to the federal Conservative party, as I understand it.
Not quite sure how that affects what I said, but ok.
BigJonsson
Member
Okay.
Yes, you are right, your party of personal preference is a special snowflake that would never stoop to such a stark and cynical analysis of electoral strategy.
I'm not sure how what you or I said are any different?
BigJonsson
Member
Every party looks at ways to exploit/attract all sorts of groups, they would be dumb not to
But you still have to try and keep all that stuff as hidden as possible since a lot of people are turned off by it
But you still have to try and keep all that stuff as hidden as possible since a lot of people are turned off by it
Well, since your post followed mine, I logically thought it was some sort of response to it. my bad.
Pretty much. But if you can't hide your shit, you deserve to be ridiculed for it, imo.
No worries.
This has got me wondering if I can grab some of the anti-immigrant/refugee 10%-ers that the tories have dropped in some ridings and redistribute them in the GTA...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I just remember ages ago when the Conservatives were accused of using minorities as props (the Bloc faced similar accusations a while ago come to think of it), so it's just funny to see how no one is above doing it.
Because god forbid you have an actual dialog with minority groups rather than pander to them once every 4-5 years.
BladeWorker
Member
I'm sure someone's got an opposition research folder tucked away with all sorts of that crap.
I mean, for pete's sake, not many years ago CPC backbenchers from SK were dropping 10%ers in Toronto Centre. I know at least a couple Rae volunteers who held on to theirs with the hope it would one day be used in a Commons debate to (figuratively, I think) flog the offending MP.
YFS really hates us. =I
There aren't a lot of groups the YFS doesn't have it in for.
And vice-versa. Iirc, some of the outgoing and incoming execs want to end ratification for political clubs, which would be funny to watch given that we're at 300-400 members now and counting.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
An inexperienced leader would not have the capacity to understand whether it is a good or bad policy coming out of his cabinet. The party leaders have the final say on whether the party agrees with a bill or piece of legislation or not.
Either way, as has been proven by Stephen Harper, you do not need charisma to win an election. I predict that any bump Trudeau gains in the polls will be very short lived. The Liberal party needs to portray that it understands the problems of Canadians and has bright ideas on how to tackle them. Pointing us to the next round of celebrities and other privileged people is short term thinking.
Not sure about Dion, but I'd put Ignatieff in the neither category.
Agreed. The tories have long proved that long term, sustainable organizational strength wins elections. Trudeau or not, we're not winning a goddamn thing until we realize how outgunned we are and what we need to do to close the gap.
Charisma != likeability. Harper is extremely charismatic. To argue against his ability to inspire trust and devotion in people is to argue against reality.
The Internet
Member
Uhh what? I live in Calgary, he is a God here. Even they know he is just terrible on cam, very sociably awkward, Watch him petting those Pandas with his wife in China...people here were turned off by it because it was bullshit.
Awesome. :lol
That's way better than the Jim Flaherty homeless quote because I know a bunch of people who agree with Flaherty.
I always thought that Flaherty quote was a damn shame. Like putting the homeless in a warm cell with food rather than letting them die on the street was a crime against humanity.
The Internet
Member
In what way?
The Internet
Member
Oh yeah that was amazing. Was that in The Amazing Spiderman issue 214
And none of that has to do with his charisma. He inspires a level of devotion in his followers that few can match. Lots of charismatic people are socially awkward and not particularly telegenic.
The Internet
Member
Followers as in sick of having the Liberals in power...c`mon man, no one voted Harper, they voted a change from the Liberals. A monkey could have won that election (actually Layton might have squeezed that one out). I have more respect for Rob Anders who makes no bones about his beliefs - Harper doesn`t inspire no one, I work for an Oil and Gas services company in the heart of Calgary, they love this guy but hes just following the Conservative platform to a T `...as for inspiration... No one gives a fuck because they are high school dropouts working in an office making 100K agreeing with what he says.
crazy monkey
Banned
handsome does not make prime minister. Let us see who we see in few years.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Trust and devotion to Harper? Not even people who vote for him trust Harper, and I'm sure this "devoted" base of his would bail out the moment there is a decent opposition. That man is not "extremely" charismatic no matter what definition of the word you use.
You know what also doesn't make prime ministers? Beards.
We haven't had a Prime Minister with a beard since Sir Charles Tupper in 1896. And that's only if you consider this monstrosity to be a true beard.
I'm thinking the NDP has no chance in the next election for the beard factor alone. ;P
matthewwhatever
Member
I think you're mixing up devotion to Harper and devotion to the Conservatives. As soon as he's gone, conservative voters will have fanatical trust in/devotion to whoever the next CPC leader is. As we've seen with the GOP in the US, that's a key part of what makes modern conservatism -- as long as the politician in question says the right things and seems to be a true right-wing believer, people will support him or her no matter what.
Harper has waffled on far too many of the 'true right-wing believer' positions to qualify for that kind of thing.
What you guys seem confused by is that you think I'm talking about voters. I'm talking about people in the organization itself, who have built up the closest thing to a cult of personality around him we've had since Trudeau. That's not something that happens just because you're the leader of a party full of fanatics, else you'd be able to say the same thing about Stockwell Day, who was far more of a true conservative than Harper has ever been.
At any rate, for the guy who keeps going on and on about how he lives in Calgary, I've lived about 90% of my life in Alberta bub.
pr0cs
Member
Not in Alberta they wouldn't.
The west votes along party lines, and has for eons. Harper just happens to be in the frontlines of the party the west follows.
matthewwhatever
Member
Enh, if you're talking about within the party apparatus, I think you'd find most leaders stock their party with true believers and hardcore devotees. Chretien had them. Martin had them to the point they were willing to devote 15 years to the cause of making him leader. Heck, if you're talking Stockwell Day -- anyone remember Ezra Levant proclaiming himself a Stock-a-holic?
In related news, the Star is reporting that Trudeau signed up 150,000 new supporters and 10,000 volunteers. Now, that number is helped by the fact the Liberals opened up the process to non-paying outsiders, but still...him winning in a landslide on the first ballot is looking pretty likely right now.
In related news, the Star is reporting that Trudeau signed up 150,000 new supporters and 10,000 volunteers. Now, that number is helped by the fact the Liberals opened up the process to non-paying outsiders, but still...him winning in a landslide on the first ballot is looking pretty likely right now.
I don't think Ezra Levant should be considered a barometer of anything. And it takes charisma to build a following of true believers to stack a party with.
Again, you guys are confusing a leadership quality with a popularity contest.
Re. Trudeau, his coronation has been a foregone conclusion for quite a while now.
Again, you guys are confusing a leadership quality with a popularity contest.
Re. Trudeau, his coronation has been a foregone conclusion for quite a while now.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It'll be fun to see the Liberals explode/implode for a third time. I wonder if they'll try to get Chretien back out of retirement or something.
As for Harper, part of his popularity is that he has basically kept anyone who would present a challenge at bay. Remember when people cared about Peter McKay? The guy who is almost as responsible for the Conservative success as much as Harper based on him going back on his word and running to Reform all those years ago? I sure don't!
As for Harper, part of his popularity is that he has basically kept anyone who would present a challenge at bay. Remember when people cared about Peter McKay? The guy who is almost as responsible for the Conservative success as much as Harper based on him going back on his word and running to Reform all those years ago? I sure don't!
gutter_trash
Banned
if Harper bows out before 2015, who do you think will replace him?
will they go Reform Party Looney Tunes? Onatrio Harris Boy Jim Flaherty? or Old Progresive Conservative Peter Mackay?
will they go Reform Party Looney Tunes? Onatrio Harris Boy Jim Flaherty? or Old Progresive Conservative Peter Mackay?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I hope they pick Tim Hudak then there would be no Conservative party to worry about for a few decades
Ah, well, I was referring to rural/suburban Ontario and British Columbia as his not-loyal voter base. Either way no one was wooed to the party by Harper's charisma. I guess Harper has wooed party faithfuls by having a smart strategy for keeping the Cons in power, but these people would always vote Conservative anyway. The Liberals don't need people who always vote Liberals, they need anyone and everyone they can get.
Jason Kenney is my guess.
matthewwhatever
Member
I'd be stunned if it wasn't Jim Prentice. From the point of view of someone who wants them to lose the next election, that's worrisome, since he's actually kind of likeable.
Kenney is a dark horse, though. He's got a big base of support among immigrant communities, apparently, and if you can win over some of those blocs (i.e. Sikhs in BC), they can deliver lots of votes.
Mackay stands no chance...he's kind of dim, and he doesn't have any power base.
Baird...heh.
Not sure who else they have, since Harper's destroyed most of his would-be successors...Tony Clement? James Moore? Maybe Maxime Bernier really will make a comeback?
Kenney is a dark horse, though. He's got a big base of support among immigrant communities, apparently, and if you can win over some of those blocs (i.e. Sikhs in BC), they can deliver lots of votes.
Mackay stands no chance...he's kind of dim, and he doesn't have any power base.
Baird...heh.
Not sure who else they have, since Harper's destroyed most of his would-be successors...Tony Clement? James Moore? Maybe Maxime Bernier really will make a comeback?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
What if Stronach came back? lol
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