I'm for this in theory, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland
- Thread starter DreamMachine
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I'm for this in theory, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Part of the Green Party of Ontario's platform was to buy electricity from Quebec for cheaper than we could make it here in Ontario. I understand that Quebec has enormous potential for hydro. If they can produce enough energy to power themselves and Ontario cheaper than we (Ontario) can power ourselves, then certainly we should be buying our power from Quebec rather than wasting our money because we insist on generating our own energy.
Hell, if there's enough potential there I see no reason why Quebec hydro shouldn't be powering this entire half of the country if it's the cheapest way. Although I can certainly understand Ontario/Atlantic governments being nervous with this arrangement as long as separatism is around. Perhaps we can sign a contract/treaty where Quebec promises to continue providing power at a reasonable price even if they do separate at some point in the future.
But even in other domains it's pretty silly that there are still trade barriers within Canada. Hopefully all of the other provinces get behind this. (And the liberal party too, in case government changes hands during the talks)
gutter_trash
Banned
I couldn't care less about Provincial protectionism, there should be NO borders between provinces in terms of making life easier for energy efficiency
If it was up to me, I would abolish provinces and just make one mega Canada.
If it was up to me, I would abolish provinces and just make one mega Canada.
gutter_trash
Banned
IMO, the prostitution debate is a lose lose debate for the Liberals and NDP. Better stay out of it and forget bout it.
No need to jeopardize 2015 on this subject.
Deal with it after 2015
I fail to see the relevance to the point I was making.
gutter_trash
Banned
very relevant, Conservatives are kings of starting debate on social values issues near election time to force opposition parties to go ''immoral'' on these issues. Knowing that it will be played over during the election.
Best not to play.
I was trying to address the contention that legislating the criminality of prostitution led to an increase/decrease in demand, not its political viability as an issue in the 2015 election.
Fair Vote Canada is having an Indiegogo campaign to raise funds for their 2015 campaign. They're at ~$25,000 right now, which will fund three animated videos about proportional representation and an interactive riding map on their website. Their next listed goal is $60,000 so as to also buy ads in community newspapers. Besides that they also plan to get billboards and lawn signs. The hope is to make electoral reform an issue during the federal election.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/make-2015-the-last-unfair-election
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/make-2015-the-last-unfair-election
Ergh. I'm obviously a huge supporter of moving to some kind of proportional representation, but I kind of despise FVC for their terrible support of collective strategic voting based on too little information (riding swings based on low-N regional polls). They shouldn't endorse candidates for any reason other than support of proprep, least of all some hackish poorly conceived calculation of likely-possible-winner.
I really don't like the idea of strategic voting. Which is a great reason to support PR of some sort. As long as they can get people to talk about reform and maybe even have it be one of the topics talked about at a debate, that would be a large step forward, worth contributing towards.
I donated such that the number would be a multiple of 5 again. All is right in the world now.
I'm actually a board member of FVC. Organization has never supported strategic voting. Not sure where you got that idea.
Hm. It's possible I'm thinking of a different organization.
There's a lot of 'Stop Harper' types around for sure. FVC isn't one of them as it tries to be as neutral and non partisan as possible. Raising visibility for PR as a means of pressuring politicians is really the only strategy available.
BigJonsson
Member
The Star just tweeted that the RCMP will be laying criminal charges against Mike Duffy in the morning 
TorontoStar ‏@TorontoStar 9m
The RCMP is expected to announce criminal charges against senator #MikeDuffy Thursday morning. #cdnpoli #BREAKINGNEWS More to come
TorontoStar ‏@TorontoStar 9m
The RCMP is expected to announce criminal charges against senator #MikeDuffy Thursday morning. #cdnpoli #BREAKINGNEWS More to come
The Star just tweeted that the RCMP will be laying criminal charges against Mike Duffy in the morning
TorontoStar ‏@TorontoStar 9m
The RCMP is expected to announce criminal charges against senator #MikeDuffy Thursday morning. #cdnpoli #BREAKINGNEWS More to come
Does it have anything to do with this article on the CBC?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-duffy-is-my-father-peruvian-woman-claims-in-a-lawsuit-1.2708022
Shame, the international illegitimate child of an incarcerated Peruvian drug smuggler reaching out to an embattled Canadian senator by suing him in an attempt to initiate a relationship with her biological father is, frankly, a much more interesting and original story. Senators filing inappropriate expense forms is totes cliché by now.
Looks like Mr.Duffy is throwing Mr.Harper under the bus.
gutter_trash
Banned
watch Harper call an election earlier than scheduled to avoid having the Duffy trial happen before an election campaign.
I hope the Conservatives sink for this
I hope the Conservatives sink for this
Zombie James
Banned
I thought the rumour was that he would call an election for March. Hm, call and election to avoid a trial or call an election so fewer students and young people will vote... the hard choices of a Conservative PM.
gutter_trash
Banned
leader of the opposition Harper contradicting Prime Minister Harper on the Senate and partisan nominations. Right Wingers will always get exposed when in power as they contradict themselves when they sat in opposition. It's classic.
I can't believe that there is a solid 30% base in Canada that supports these guys.
Then again, there is a 30% base in Quebec that support separatists and there is a 30% base in the US who thought that Bush was a good President.
Everywhere has a 30% base of nut jobs who support the wrong side.
I can't believe that there is a solid 30% base in Canada that supports these guys.
Then again, there is a 30% base in Quebec that support separatists and there is a 30% base in the US who thought that Bush was a good President.
Everywhere has a 30% base of nut jobs who support the wrong side.
Too bad 30% plus a few more can win majority governments in screwed up systems like FPTP and AV.
Firehawk12, now you may proceed to lose your shit with giddy excitement over the investigation.
That's the reason why Conservatives always win my riding as well. Three leftist parties vs one right wing party. During the provincial elections, the three leftist parties combined had more votes than the Cons(meaning that my riding is more left leaning than right), but, thanks to vote splitting, it's the Cons who came out on top :/
BigJonsson
Member
Firehawk12, now you may proceed to lose your shit with giddy excitement over the investigation.
Oh wow lol
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
But remember that "always" here is relative to most of us being in our 20s and voting in the 2004 or later elections. In 93, and especially in 97 and 2000, the strength of Liberal majorities were significantly enhanced by vote-splitting between the PCs and Reform->CDA parties. Uniting the right gave the Conservatives a game theoretic advantage. That's an advantage that could be undone by uniting the center/left, and or if the Conservatives dissolve because of caucus tensions, and/or by pursuing electoral reform. Personally I'd rather see Canada adopt some measure of proportionality because I think there is value in terms of representativity and pluralism to have more than two parties, and because the false majority problem is a problem whether "my side" wins or not.
Edit: In 1997, there would have been a popular vote tie between Liberals and Reform+PCs, whereas the number of seats awarded was 155 versus 80. Even accounting for riding size inequality, most of that discrepancy comes from vote-splitting costing CDA/PCs seats they'd have otherwise had.
Here's a fun riding, look at 2000:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds—Grenville
Liberal 18,594
Canadian Alliance 18,539
(55 votes between the two)
PC 7,940
So much this. Just because people are vaguely on the same end of the spectrum doesn't mean they agree, and I don't want 'my side' to win a bullshit majority and lord it over the rest of the country either. It's wrong no matter who it is, and constant fake Liberal majorities for the last 40 years or so have almost certainly contributed to the divisive political environment we have now.
I'll also point out that right now, the Liberals, Greens, and NDP share a pretty small cross-section of policy. The Liberals may actually have more in common with the CPC than the NDP right now, if anything.
gutter_trash
Banned
and the NDP members in Quebec who are nationalists have more in common with the Bloc.
Liberals are the only true Federalists.
Conservatives are provincialists
Liberals are the only true Federalists.
Conservatives are provincialists
I don't agree with you on everything, I can see eye to eye with you on this.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The term federalist is more commonly used to refer to someone who believes in a federal arrangement; in other words, a sharing of powers between national and subnational governments with each having assigned and legally protected powers--as opposed to a unitary state, where almost all governance occurs at the national level and subnational governments have no mandate or reserved powers, only powers voluntarily delegated (sort of like how here, our municipal governments have no reserved powers). Canada is a federation. Admittedly an asymmetrical one because of the territories and duplication of services in Quebec (ala QPP, immigration differences, and others).
Federalist was used in the Quebec sovereignty debate not out of reference to the national government (IE federal government), but out of reference to the system of government referred to by the term federalism. No alternate term would be useful, because while sovereigntist is a clear term, nationalist is not, both because it evokes the legal nation as well as the social nation, and because "nationalism" evokes the ideology of jingoism, rejection of the outside, and historical nationalist parties rather than the specific separation movement in Quebec.
I know this is confusing because we use the word "federal government" to refer to our national government, but you don't need to make up a new word to describe something that already exists and has a perfectly good word to describe it. The Tory position isn't anywhere near a true confederation*, they just believe in decentralized federalism. Liberals from Pierre Trudeau's perspective are also federalists, but they believe in a stronger national government, but again typically not to the degree of a unitary state.
* Confederation is also a term that is mis-used in Canada because we call the coming together of the provinces "confederation" even though our country's organizational structure is not remotely confederal. We are a federation, not a confederation.
Making up new words to describe things that have existing words just confuses debate further. It's a bummer because people are very confused when they run into things with multiple layers and it definitely impacts their ability to understand. The widespread confusion on the term "liberal" or "liberalism" (even the Canadian way of describing things as small-l big-l) is a testament to how misuse of terms contributes to a poverty of debate. :/
This is true, I should clarify that the Conservatives have been winning since I've been living here
I agree that we need to adopt some measure of proportionality, even if that means the party I don't like wins the right to form a government, I've had eight years of Conservative government to get me used to that
Simon Belmont
Banned
The Libs and CPC have pretty much always had more in common than any other two parties. They just fight over the centre every election, and the party that defines itself as "more centre' usually gets in.
Of course they each can sometimes have little expeditions towards the left/right, but it is usually to their peril that they do so. Canadians vote down the middle of the political spectrum, generally speaking.
The Libs campaign from the centre-left and scaremonger about the right to bleed votes away from the NDP and, under Cretien/Martin away, they governed from the right. Ruthless cuts and downloading and they didn't use their restulting surplus to re-invest in the country but instead for tax cuts. I mean sure I agree with paying down the debt. But the Cretien/Martin years were lost years in terms of investments in education and infrastructure.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Education investments are tough because education is unambiguously a provincial matter in all cases and the bulk of funding for primary and secondary education derives from school taxes, typically collected at the municipal level, remitted to the provinces, and then transferred down to autonomous school boards. It's difficult to be clear exactly how the Federal government would have been able to invest. Typically federal funding has been limited to targeted policy objectives like funding for internet connectivity in rural schools. Post-secondary seems a better investment target since between tri-council funding for research, and grants and loans which effectively subsidize tuition, it seems more possible for the feds to inject cash, even though they would have very little control over the outcome of that cash injection. I'm just trying to think of what "investing in education" looks like. Curricular homogenization is going pretty well between the Atlantic Common Curriculum and the WNCP. Teacher standards are pretty comparable across the country. There's not a huge amount of evidence that various provinces experiments with chartering or independent schools has been a cut and dry success... I'd say there's probably room for federal spending to improve school bus and transit services in rural school districts, for sure. (I've worked as a researcher for an education policy study for the last six months, so all this stuff is like my daily bread hahaha)
Infrastructure, though... infrastructure is a case where cash transfers would have made a world of difference, especially for large-scale transit projects, and it's a pity we lost so much time on that. Terry Fallis' (a former LPC strategist and legislative staffer) 2010 fiction novel, The High Road fictionalizes this by having the Ottawa-Gatineau bridge drop into the river after micro-cracking caused by underfunding of maintenance and inspections. I'm not sure of the plausibility of the scenario, and as someone who drives over the bridge somewhat regularly, I hope not... but it goes without saying that the complaint is well received. I'm pretty nonplussed about Stephen Harper Saves Canada Through His Holy Economic Action Plan, Coming To A Town Near You, Harper Cares, Also Canada's Branding Colours Are Now Blue And Green Because There's No Red On The Flag Don't Vote Liberal What Charter? There's No Charter as a whole and it was transparently a case of a government 180ing on infrastructure spending to save their skin, but to the extent that a lot of the cash has allowed for long-overdue maintenance, repairs, and upgrades, I guess it's a net good.
Infrastructure, though... infrastructure is a case where cash transfers would have made a world of difference, especially for large-scale transit projects, and it's a pity we lost so much time on that. Terry Fallis' (a former LPC strategist and legislative staffer) 2010 fiction novel, The High Road fictionalizes this by having the Ottawa-Gatineau bridge drop into the river after micro-cracking caused by underfunding of maintenance and inspections. I'm not sure of the plausibility of the scenario, and as someone who drives over the bridge somewhat regularly, I hope not... but it goes without saying that the complaint is well received. I'm pretty nonplussed about Stephen Harper Saves Canada Through His Holy Economic Action Plan, Coming To A Town Near You, Harper Cares, Also Canada's Branding Colours Are Now Blue And Green Because There's No Red On The Flag Don't Vote Liberal What Charter? There's No Charter as a whole and it was transparently a case of a government 180ing on infrastructure spending to save their skin, but to the extent that a lot of the cash has allowed for long-overdue maintenance, repairs, and upgrades, I guess it's a net good.
For Ontario specifically tuition rates skyrocketed while I was in University during the Martin/Chretien years. Certainly it's a provincial matter but provincial finances suffered as the federal government dumped responsibilities on the lower levels which contributed to the problem significantly.
Plus let's not forget the 'eliminate child poverty by 2000' and Kyoto protocol signing. Pure Lefty/Greeny stuff that Chretien/Martin did absolutely jackshit to achieve when in power (once with less than 39% of the damn vote).
Plus let's not forget the 'eliminate child poverty by 2000' and Kyoto protocol signing. Pure Lefty/Greeny stuff that Chretien/Martin did absolutely jackshit to achieve when in power (once with less than 39% of the damn vote).
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Well, yeah, surely all things are connected and massive downloading of shared responsibilities without a corresponding transfer of revenue share is going to lead to unrelated cuts, I'm just saying education seems like a particularly problematic issue for massive and overwhelming federal spending to directly impact.
Fair enough.
gutter_trash
Banned
Harper and CO have been forcing the baramoter towards the Right way more so than Mulroney had.
Saying that the Conservatives have watered themselves down to the Center is laughable considering how further on the Right these Conservatives are compared to the 80's Progressive Conservatives.
Thomas Mulcair has been moving the NDP towards the Center to fight the Liberals. The NDP is no longer the pro-union sociology-democratic party of old. The NDP of today are trying to be relevant and have watered down their ''socialism'' to be able to win votes from the Center..
The Canadian political barometer as in the US and Europe has shifted more towards the Right for better of for worse. Canada is today more Right Wing than 20 years ago.
http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/96/liberals-open-up-wide-lead-on-conservatives/
If this continues the Liberals might just get that majority...
Unfortunately (for us at least) 308 is on vacation now, but it'll be interesting to see what they have to show when they get back.
If this continues the Liberals might just get that majority...
Unfortunately (for us at least) 308 is on vacation now, but it'll be interesting to see what they have to show when they get back.
BigJonsson
Member
If polling keeps looking that way then I doubt the Cons will call an early election even if Harper or other high level party members have to get involved in a Duffy trial
Yes. This is demonstrated by how gay marriage remains illegal in this country and Harper is insistent on re-opening the abortion debate this fall.
Simon Belmont
Banned
I think he means economically. Neoliberalism and all that, although that really started in earnest 20 or so years ago.
matthewwhatever
Member
"Might"? If they were to get 44%, it'd almost definitely be a landslide because of how their votes are distributed. They've historically had pretty efficient vote distribution (see: 1997), whereas the Conservatives get a bump of a few percentage points because of how well they do in Alberta.
That said, 15 months to go, so who knows what may happen between now and then.
Maybe he quits suddenly? That's looking less and less likely, but he could pull a Trudeau/Mulroney and quit with barely any time left in his term, leaving his successor to get drubbed. (in this analogy, Jason Kenney would be Kim Campbell.)
BigJonsson
Member
Yea, that could happen if he wants to retire on top
gutter_trash
Banned
LOL, you picked two social issues that have been resolved and solved. Nobody dares re-open them.
Abortion: resolved since 1988
Same-Sex Marriage: resolved since 2005.
We are not USA, when a social issue gets resolved, we rarely rarely roll back.
Only Evangelical Reform Party Conservative Albertans talk about reversing abortion. Everyone else in the rest of ''normal'' Canada recognize that THAT issue has been solved since 1988.
You are correct and you understand the point I was try to bat. We are economically more Right Wing than 20 years ago.
Social issues are something else, we are fairly progressive allround.
But on economics, people look out for their pocket books and vote accordingly.
Cost of living has gone up, people feel the squeeze, people want tax cuts, tax breaks and want more accountability from government
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Mike Duffy won't go quietly. This will hurt Harper in suburbia, to the point that people believe that Harper won't run again.
If only the Lefty-Left NDP voters would put their socialists ideology aside, bite their tongue and vote Liberal to stop Harper.
So sitting at the border, I can't help but think , why? What do we gain by making everyone wait in line for about an hour?
I think we would be just fine if we opened up the border. The Americans arent going to come shoot us up (becuase why would they?). And I doubt the border controls have ever stopped anyone from buying whatever drugs they like. Also this bridge is decrepit and I'd prefer not to be on it any longer than I need too.
God Bless Canada
I think we would be just fine if we opened up the border. The Americans arent going to come shoot us up (becuase why would they?). And I doubt the border controls have ever stopped anyone from buying whatever drugs they like. Also this bridge is decrepit and I'd prefer not to be on it any longer than I need too.
God Bless Canada
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