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Canada Poligaf - The Wrath of Harperland

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M

Mr.Mike

Member
BigJonsson said:
Open the border? What do you mean? Like the EU?
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Somewhat. Of course in Europe they also have free movement in that you can just move, live and work anywhere. It's something I think might be worth considering between the US-Canada, but I'm not really sure if that would work out in favour.

But in the EU there's also no border checkpoints, and you are free to just drive through. I don't think removing border control would have significant negative repercussions. And the benefits would be pretty nice, on a personal level of being able to cross the border freely, but also economically with trucks not having to spend potentially hours waiting at the border.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
Mr.Mike said:
Somewhat. Of course in Europe they also have free movement in that you can just move, live and work anywhere. It's something I think might be worth considering between the US-Canada, but I'm not really sure if that would work out in favour.

But in the EU there's also no border checkpoints, and you are free to just drive through. I don't think removing border control would have significant negative repressions. And the benefits would be pretty nice, on a personal level of being able to cross the border freely, but also economically with trucks not having to spend potentially hours waiting at the border.
Click to expand...


There have been books written on this.....it would be very, very complicated to do and the US would probably never go for it unless they were in charge of it
 
G

gabbo

Member
Mr.Mike said:
Somewhat. Of course in Europe they also have free movement in that you can just move, live and work anywhere. It's something I think might be worth considering between the US-Canada, but I'm not really sure if that would work out in favour.

But in the EU there's also no border checkpoints, and you are free to just drive through. I don't think removing border control would have significant negative repercussions. And the benefits would be pretty nice, on a personal level of being able to cross the border freely, but also economically with trucks not having to spend potentially hours waiting at the border.
Click to expand...

They've been working on congestion issue for years (Anyone know where the new bridge with Michigan currently sits?), and this wouldn't fly.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
gabbo said:
They've been working on congestion issue for years (Anyone know where the new bridge with Michigan currently sits?), and this wouldn't fly.
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The new bridge is supposed to begin construction in 2015 and finish by 2020, but there has been an issue with US government not securing/providing funding for a border plaza on the US side of the crossing. The extension of the 401 to where the new bridge will be is well on it's way and is supposed to be done by 2015, but there has been an issue with substandard girders which might cause a delay. (On my commute home I can see that they've already started planting trees, which seems like a sign that they're almost done.)

Stumpokapow said:
The US in particular would not like an open border with Canada because of a few bad experiences they've had in the past
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Logically this should be a matter of a bit of math. If the benefits of free movement (tourism, faster shipping) outweigh the potential cost of easier trafficking of drugs/arms and the risk of terrorism (which I'd imagine would be minimal in the grand scheme of things), then an open border would be a good thing.

Realistically I wouldn't expect an open border to be a popular move with US voters, because of examples like this, but also the really weird anti-immigrant attitude that we're seeing currently with their Central American refugee children situation. I don't expect that they would ever go for this any time soon, but I think on a purely logical level it might be beneficial to open the border. It's also something that's probably not going to be popular here either.
 
S

sikkinixx

Member
So as a teacher in BC this strike bullshit is getting pretty fucking tiring. Frankly I'm annoyed with the union for being idiots, playing into the Liberal's hands and for starting negotiations with a 20% wage increase or some shit AND I'm annoyed with the Liberals for being cunts about the whole thing and obviously not giving two fucks about a) kids, b) education or c) teachers.

NOW, in lieu of playing teachers to do their job, or putting the money into education or whatever the government decides it will dangle $40 a day per kid under the age of 13 to parents if... (lol WHEN) job action continues into September.

I know a lot of people, including some here I'm guessing, hate teachers, hate unions, think that we are all selfish greedy assholes who should all be fired and replaced by robots who can babysit their kid better than we could and save the taxpayers some money but fuck me man... This shit is hard to take without feeling like I'm being sacked repeatedly. Look at any class and see the number of ministry designations and you would crap you pants. Teachers shouldn't have a third or more of their class with severe behaviour, learning or mental issues. It's not fair to anyone involved but schools I go into have one teacher spread across 6, 8, 10 classes to work with these kids.

*sigh*
 
G

gabbo

Member
sikkinixx said:
So as a teacher in BC this strike bullshit is getting pretty fucking tiring. Frankly I'm annoyed with the union for being idiots, playing into the Liberal's hands and for starting negotiations with a 20% wage increase or some shit AND I'm annoyed with the Liberals for being cunts about the whole thing and obviously not giving two fucks about a) kids, b) education or c) teachers.

NOW, in lieu of playing teachers to do their job, or putting the money into education or whatever the government decides it will dangle $40 a day per kid under the age of 13 to parents if... (lol WHEN) job action continues into September.

I know a lot of people, including some here I'm guessing, hate teachers, hate unions, think that we are all selfish greedy assholes who should all be fired and replaced by robots who can babysit their kid better than we could and save the taxpayers some money but fuck me man... This shit is hard to take without feeling like I'm being sacked repeatedly. Look at any class and see the number of ministry designations and you would crap you pants. Teachers shouldn't have a third or more of their class with severe behaviour, learning or mental issues. It's not fair to anyone involved but schools I go into have one teacher spread across 6, 8, 10 classes to work with these kids.

*sigh*
Click to expand...

After living in Mike Harris' Ontario in the 90's (and as the son of a high school teacher), you come to realize teachers are public enemy #1 everywhere.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
what is up with Harper and Baird being Chicken Hawks with big words concerning foreign intervention but never having Canada being involved in anything at all?

it's like that loud mouthed little kid who is best friends with the biggest kid in the school yard. Mouthing off loudly but standing behind his bigger friend
 
G

gabbo

Member
gutter_trash said:
what is up with Harper and Baird being Chicken Hawks with big words concerning foreign intervention but never having Canada being involved in anything at all?

it's like that loud mouthed little kid who is best friends with the biggest kid in the school yard. Mouthing off loudly but standing behind his bigger friend
Click to expand...

We're Chester
BVVuYXU.jpg
.

They want to appear to be punching above their weight without having to actually do anything to achieve it.
 
A

Azih

Member
gabbo said:
We're Chester
BVVuYXU.jpg
.

They want to appear to be punching above their weight without having to actually do anything to achieve it.
Click to expand...

We used to punch way above our weight by being a fair and even handed neutral power.

Well bye bye to all that.
 
A

Azih

Member
It would be smart of Harper to pull a Cretien and resign at the height of his power and just as it seems like the goodwill in his party has evaporated. We'll see.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
gutter_trash said:
what is up with Harper and Baird being Chicken Hawks with big words concerning foreign intervention but never having Canada being involved in anything at all?

it's like that loud mouthed little kid who is best friends with the biggest kid in the school yard. Mouthing off loudly but standing behind his bigger friend
Click to expand...

That's kind of been Canadian foreign policy in a nutshell for the last few decades. The only difference between now and under Chretien is that then we talked a big game about being peacekeepers and defenders of the poor, while giving disproportionately way less then our share.

Azih said:
It would be smart of Harper to pull a Cretien and resign at the height of his power and just as it seems like the goodwill in his party has evaporated. We'll see.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this? If there's any historical analogy, it'd be to Mulroney or Trudeau, where Harper would resign knowing his party would to get destroyed in the next election. I don't have the numbers on hand, but if I remember correctly, when he resigned Chretien was still pretty popular. There was some fatigue, but if anything people thought Martin was going to get an even bigger majority. Susan Delacourt called her book about him "Juggernaut" without a trace of irony, and there were predictions before he came to power of the Liberals getting 200+ seats. There may have been rumblings of Adscam, but I don't think anyone would've predicted that Martin would run around the country doing the opposition's job for them. (And even then, he still won a minority in his first election, and the one after that was only a slim win for the Conservatives.)

Actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure there is much of a historical analogy for Harper. That 30% of people supporting him aren't going anywhere no matter what, which means he's guaranteed a relatively high floor in terms of seats...has anyone else ever had that kind of unwavering support? Diefenbaker, maybe?
 
S

Simon Belmont

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
Actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure there is much of a historical analogy for Harper. That 30% of people supporting him aren't going anywhere no matter what, which means he's guaranteed a relatively high floor in terms of seats...has anyone else ever had that kind of unwavering support? Diefenbaker, maybe?
Click to expand...

Conservatives don't usually switch sides in an election, but they do stay home. Look at Hudak - he had that same floor but had an electoral disaster because enough conservative voters just stayed home.
 
A

Azih

Member
matthewwhatever said:
What do you mean by this? If there's any historical analogy, it'd be to Mulroney or Trudeau, where Harper would resign knowing his party would to get destroyed in the next election. I don't have the numbers on hand, but if I remember correctly, when he resigned Chretien was still pretty popular. There was some fatigue, but if anything people thought Martin was going to get an even bigger majority.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. No analogy is perfect and I am working off of 20/20 hindsight of course which throws matters off. You can't deny Cretien's sense of timing though. And if Harper leaves now he'll be remembered as an extraordinarily successful leader especially in terms of majorly shifting the landscape of politics quite a ways in his direction. If he stays and gets trounced that would change the narrative significantly.

Edit: Would Harper be able to handle losing to a Trudeau?
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Actually, the widespread rumour (possibly confirmed?) about Chretien's departure is that he had offered to stay for an extra month or two, so that he'd get all the blame for Adscam. The only reason he didn't is because Martin & his people insisted he leave ASAP. Which is exactly the kind of strategic acumen that you'd expect from that whole group.

On topic, though...I can't see Harper taking a loss to Trudeau very well. I imagine that if (and when, hopefully) it happens, it'll come after the dirtiest campaign imaginable, and that he'll refuse to concede until the last possible moment, just so that the Trudeau victory speech wouldn't be on before the 11 pm news.

No idea, though, how he'd be remembered if he does stay and get trounced. Mulroney is remembered as the guy who killed his party, but Trudeau's reputation wasn't diminished that much by being leaving behind a party that got absolutely destroyed in 1984. And before those two, you have to go back awhile to find someone in a similar situation. Laurier (if the Liberals get a majority) or Diefenbaker (if they only manage a minority) kind of work -- the former went from being in power for 15 years to Opposition status in 1911, while the latter won a huge majority in 1958, then lost to a Pearson minority in 1962, and then the Liberals won big in 1963. I wouldn't say either of them are that diminished in the history books, though. Obviously, I think he's been a terrible PM, so it would be nice if he suffers the Mulroney fate, but at the same time, the mere fact he's hung on so long will probably help him out in the long run, as will the fact he hasn't done anything egregiously terrible -- i.e. people who hate Mulroney can point to Free Trade, the GST, the referenda. Does Harper have that kind of legislative record? There's scandals, sure, but every party eventually has some of those.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Serves Mulroney right for recruiting Nationalists who ended up turning against him.

You can't deal or bargain with them.

Pierre Trudeau understood this, he had it right

Keep an eye out for the Nationalists inside the NDP. Claude Patry won't be the last
----------

great news coming from Ottawa,
a Bloc MP J-F Fortin has quits the party because their new crazy leader ''Mario Beaulieu'' is a nut job.
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...-francois-fortin-quitte-le-bloc-quebecois.php
Now the Bloc are back down to three. (Don't forget, NDP elected Claude Patry defected to the Bloc in 2013).
 
C

CreeperBlocks

Banned
gutter_trash said:
Michael Sona guilty in robocalls trial
Former Conservative staffer learns fate 3 years after misleading robocalls in Guelph, Ont.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/michael-sona-guilty-in-robocalls-trial-1.2735676

robocalls-trial-20140604-michael-sona.jpg

Pierre Poutine in the flesh
Click to expand...

Good.

Mr.Mike said:
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/08/09/...erals-surge-but-mulcair-tops-in-job-approval/

Liberal government with NDP opposition is within reach. Believe.

Interestingly, people like Mulcair more than Trudeau. And they certainly aren't fans of Harper.
Click to expand...


Here's hoping Justin doesn't fuck this up.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
more Bloc Quebecois implosion

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...792359-une-autre-demission-en-vue-au-bloc.php

Claude Patry was elected as an NDP!!!! candidate in 2011.
He then defected to the separatiste Bloc Quebecois because Tom Mulcair was not ''nationaliste' enough for Patry, LOL
Now today Claude Patry defects from the Bloc to sit as an Independent because their new leader Mario Beaulieu is TOO nationalistic and divisve, The IRONY

Separatists love to separate hahahahahah

Never trust NDP candidates who voted YES in 1995 and call themselves ''nationalist''
ScreenHunter_237%20Feb_%2012%2013_51%281%29.jpg
Patry as an elected NDP
665776-president-regional-bloc-quebecois-robert.jpg
Patry as a separatist Bloc head
patry.jpg.size.xxlarge.letterbox.jpg
forever alone
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...als-for-changing-tv-industry/article20151814/

The proposals issued Thursday by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission include requiring cable and satellite providers to offer a basic service made up primarily of local Canadian channels.

The CRTC is also proposing a so-called pick-and-pay structure that would allow Canadians to choose individual channels, on top of a basic service.

And it suggests the price of that basic service could be capped at between $20 and $30 per month.
Click to expand...

Good news for cable users, for once.

At the same time, the regulator is proposing allowing local TV stations to shut down their transmitters – a move that might not sit well with consumers who prefer to get their TV programming over the air.
Click to expand...

Fuck right off.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Federal polling result for the province of Quebec. Bloc shut out.
http://www.threehundredeight.com/2014/08/bloc-falls-in-quebec-as-liberals-move.html
CROP.PNG

in terms of seats, the province-wide model gives the New Democrats 46, with 27 going to the Liberals and five to the Conservatives (the Bloc Québécois would be shutout). But, as I've discussed before, province-wide models in Quebec may not do the job well as the Liberals have gained support disproportionately outside of Montreal. Taking that into account, there are another eight seats that could fall to them instead of the NDP, narrowing the gap to 38 seats for the NDP and 35 for the Liberals.
Click to expand...

Thank the Gods! I hope the Bloc really does get shut out, time to have Quebec really represented by real parties that really form government
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Where's Ether to tell us this is all part of the dastardly Conservative plan to split the vote and have Quebec separate?

Also, I love that "0" for the BQ among non-Francophones.

On a related note, I'm hoping someone does some Alberta polling soon. Things must be looking not-so-great internally for the Conservatives if they've taken to releasing anti-Liberal ads in their home province. If the next election has Alberta in play, that could make things really interesting.
 
M

Mr.Mike

Member
gutter_trash said:
looks like Harper will have few to no Provincial allies when 2015 rolls around

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...tures-ottawa-ferme-la-porte-aux-provinces.php

896467-premiere-ministre-ontarienne-kathleen-wynne.jpg
Click to expand...

What's with the English flag in the ba... Oh, that's the Ontario flag. We really should get ourselves a new one of those.

Anyway, good that Ontario and Quebec are getting along. I'd imagine that despite linguistic and cultural differences our economic problems are pretty similar and if we can work together to find a solution that would be great. And if we can buy power cheaper from Quebec than we can make it ourselves that would be great.
 
S

Silexx

Member
So apparently the break-in at Trudeau's home was the result of a drunk 19 year old accidently stumbling into the house because he didn't know where he was.

Ok, I can now laugh at this whole story.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
I like Ottawa when I visit, almost went to school there.....but I'm a politics nerd and love seeing the historical stuff

My sis ended up there for school and seemed to enjoy living there
 
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