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[Danny Dudekisser]

If you're going to make shit up, use your brain first. There is no data anywhere to suggest Sony spent $300M on the game + aquisition costs.

Do you think Arkane came free with their $8B purchase of Zenimax?

Do you think that Team Ninja came free as well? They cost Microsoft $117M to acquire, and they had previous IP they owned.

So you're telling me that Concord developers cost MORE as a start up company with no previous works/IP than two storied game development houses in existence for a very long time? This shit is comical man! Use your head.

I don't think that figure's completely outlandish, honestly. As has been outlined earlier, the burn rate for a 170-man team in Seattle is expensive, and even if we're assuming they were only at that scale for a couple years, that's still $100-150m+. I don't know where the game's investment up to that point came from, but there's 6 years worth of work there and Sony no doubt had to pony up a substantial amount to buy out whoever's interest that was. $300m is on the high side, obviously, but there's a pretty massive chunk of change they would've necessarily thrown at this thing.

 

[Aenima]

I called this game dead on arrival multiple times, and even so this game ended up performing worse tham my already pessimistic expectations. Not even reaching 1k concurrent players on a weekend to a game that received a good amount of marketing is really something.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

There’s no way In hell Redfall or Hellblade 2 cost anything near $100m. Ninja Theory are very strong proponents of doing more with less, and even a significant increase in budget for HB2 is still an increase over the $10m budget for the first game.
You’re fully into this ‘misery loves company’ mode, aren’t you?

How do you know? Hellblade 2 was in development for 6 years @ 120 employees. Even if we assume that Bleeding Edge was fully using the studio until 2020, that's 4 years @ 120 employees @ $150k per employee cost ($100k or less wages + benefits, and $50k overhead) = 72M alone, and that does not include any other costs which get rolled into it (external contractors, marketing, etc). Yeah, Hellblade 2 is certainly close to $100M if not exceeding it.

You're fully into "making up bullshit and believing all Phil Spencer's lies" mode, aren't you?

I don't think that figure's completely outlandish, honestly. As has been outlined earlier, the burn rate for a 170-man team in Seattle is expensive, and even if we're assuming they were only at that scale for a couple years, that's still $100-150m+. I don't know where the game's investment up to that point came from, but there's 6 years worth of work there and Sony no doubt had to pony up a substantial amount to buy out whoever's interest that was. $300m is on the high side, obviously, but there's a pretty massive chunk of change they would've necessarily thrown at this thing.

They did not burn 170 people until recently.

 

[Stuart360]

If you're going to make shit up, use your brain first. There is no data anywhere to suggest Sony spent $300M on the game + acquisition costs.

Do you think Arkane came free with their $8B purchase of Zenimax?

Do you think that Ninja theory came free as well? They cost Microsoft $117M to acquire, and they had previous IP they owned.

So you're telling me that Concord developers cost MORE as a start up company with no previous works/IP than two storied game development houses in existence for a very long time? This shit is comical man! Use your head.

300mil is whats being said around the internet, a combined price for the studio and development of the game. I mean i'm sure there was even a thread on here about it a while ago. And with what we know about game development, and the fact the game supposedly took 8 years to make, that number doesnt sound out of the question.
Hell lets say the number is wrong and its only half that. That would still be 150mil for 600 players on PC, and probably similar or slightly higher on PS5, on LAUNCH DAY.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I called this game dead on arrival multiple times, and even so this game ended up performing worse tham my already pessimistic expectations. Not even reaching 1k concurrent players on a weekend to a game that received a good amount of marketing is really something.

I was way off. When it hit 697 yesterday, I thought the weekend would boost it up like every game on steamdb. Mon-Thurs game playing tanks, but Friday-Sun it zooms up like a rollercoaster. I had 2000+.

Turns out Saturday afternoon, player count is already going down from a Friday launch.

Just wait till Monday hits. it might even bottom out at 100-200.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

300mil is whats being said around the internet, a combined price for the studio and development of the game. I mean i'm sure there was even a thread on here about it a while ago. And with what we know about game development, and the fact the game supposedly took 8 years to make, that number doesnt sound out of the question.
Hell lets say the number is wrong and its only half that. That would still be 150mil for 600 players on PC, and probably similar or slightly higher on PS5, on LAUNCH DAY.

There's nothing floating around the internet about that. Again, making shit up.

I can also make shit up and claim HB2 cost $1B dollars and Concord only cost a buck fiddy. That ain't making it anywhere near a reasonable guess.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Why would a project failure be judged on the number of active players they had at one point, rather than the net loss they resulted in?

Can I ask you a serious question?

Why are you putting so much effort into defending this game?

 

[PeteBull]

There's nothing floating around the internet about that. Again, making shit up.

I can also make shit up and claim HB2 cost $1B dollars and Concord only cost a buck fiddy. That ain't making it anywhere near a reasonable guess.

Bro, fk hellblade 2, its microsofts money, so let phil and xbox players worry, we focus here on sony's output aka things that still can be salvaged.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Can I ask you a serious question?

Why are you putting so much effort into defending this game?

I'm not defending the game. I hope it burns in a dumpster fire.

I am just trying to apply logic to the game's failure. It's a new startup company, that's clearly risky in and of itself, it's a new IP, that's another risk. Yeah, it failed spectacularly. But some are making it out to be way more than it is. It's not like Naughty Dog made this and it's going to kill a cherished studio. Sony already absorbed the loss of Concord with Helldivers 2's success. That's just part of their GaaS strategy, you're going to win some and lose some.

 

[PeteBull]

I'm not defending the game. I hope it burns in a dumpster fire.

I am just trying to apply logic to the game's failure. It's a new startup company, that's clearly risky in and of itself, it's a new IP, that's another risk. Yeah, it failed spectacularly. But some are making it out to be way more than it is. It's not like Naughty Dog made this and it's going to kill a cherished studio. Sony already absorbed the loss of Concord with Helldivers 2's success. That's just part of their GaaS strategy, you're going to win some and lose some.

Important thing is for sony to draw conclusions, aka not make concord 2 or anything even vagely similar to that shit, if they keep making same mistake over and over again we will have xbox situation, and believe me, no playstation player(and i hope playstation CEO either) would want that.
By that i mean- any stupid fk gets an idea to buy out woke studio or make woke arena shooter- those ideas get nipped in the bud.

 

[Stuart360]

There's nothing floating around the internet about that. Again, making shit up.

I can also make shit up and claim HB2 cost $1B dollars and Concord only cost a buck fiddy. That ain't making it anywhere near a reasonable guess.

James just out of curiosity, taking into account the 8 year dev time, the fact Sony had to buy the studio as well as fund the game, how much do you think the game cost to make?

 

[havoc00]

I bought the game so im not a "hater" but the majority of this games fanbase is something else....

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

James just out of curiosity, taking into account the 8 year dev time, the fact Sony had to buy the studio as well as fund the game, how much do you think the game cost to make?

8 years with like 20 people is not a significant cost. This was a start up studio. Those first few years not much is getting done other than getting the offices set up, the key leads in place, doing some high level prototyping.

The game wasn't really in full production until recently with a big team.

Sony didn't have to buy the studio, they wanted to. And I think that's a separate cost that does not need to be included as "what the game cost to make", when comparing to other teams that also cost money to acquire. Just leave that out of it unless you want to include it for all.

I think the game is a 9 figure loss (100M), which stings but again Helldivers 2 netted them over 400M after costs.

 

[MiguelItUp]

There's nothing floating around the internet about that. Again, making shit up.

I can also make shit up and claim HB2 cost $1B dollars and Concord only cost a buck fiddy. That ain't making it anywhere near a reasonable guess.

But how can you be so certain that it's "being made up", just because it's something articles have put out, or content creators/influencers have mentioned as well? Surely there have been times where you've heard or read something as truth about a different subject. Especially when it's the price of the acquisition, and very well the cost of development. 200-300 mill doesn't sound insane when Insomniac was purchased for 229 several years ago.

I bought the game so im not a "hater" but the majority of this games fanbase is something else....

Yeah, these "fans" exist everywhere. It's like the people that suddenly came out defending The Acolyte show saying the same kind of things. When the reality was, no, the show was just not good, it was bad for a lot of reasons, lol.

 

[Plague Doctor]

I personally loving the continuous development of coping and excuses since the closed beta.

People so desperately grasping at straws to give this turd a pass or hope for success when it's failure was so well signaled.

Now the press and Era are desperately trying to figure out why this did not find an audience.

This is hilarious! I love watching delluded fucks backed into a corner where narratives and excuses just all fail.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Steamdb currently at 398.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

8 years with like 20 people is not a significant cost. This was a start up studio. Those first few years not much is getting done other than getting the offices set up, the key leads in place, doing some high level prototyping.

The game wasn't really in full production until recently with a big team.

Sony didn't have to buy the studio, they wanted to. And I think that's a separate cost that does not need to be included as "what the game cost to make", when comparing to other teams that also cost money to acquire. Just leave that out of it unless you want to include it for all.

I think the game is a 9 figure loss (100M), which stings but again Helldivers 2 netted them over 400M after costs.

And Bungie costs $3.6B, which $1.2 billion was set aside for retention bonuses which dont go to the value of brand/asset. Also, add in the costs of all those cancelled GAAS games.

Also, how do you get H2 made over $400M profit?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I had to google what DEI was, and in fear of being banned, I'm not going to comment on this topic further beyond wishing you people the very best of luck in life.

I guess you spend too much time on Era if you are afraid of being banned over DEI

 

[Stuart360]

8 years with like 20 people is not a significant cost. This was a start up studio. Those first few years not much is getting done other than getting the offices set up, the key leads in place, doing some high level prototyping.

The game wasn't really in full production until recently with a big team.

Sony didn't have to buy the studio, they wanted to. And I think that's a separate cost that does not need to be included as "what the game cost to make", when comparing to other teams that also cost money to acquire. Just leave that out of it unless you want to include it for all.

I think the game is a 9 figure loss (100M), which stings but again Helldivers 2 netted them over 400M after costs.

You're looking at it from a 'how much does this hurt Sony financially' angle, as if there are peopel saying Sony is going to go under because of this or something. No one is saying that, they are just discussing a high profile and expensive game flopping worse than probably the biggest hater could even of imagined.

Concord flopping wont hurt Sony, just like HB2 and Redfall wont hurt MS financially, no one is saying otherwise.

Sony will be fine after this, dont worry. Its alright to admit when something has gone wrong, eevn if it involves Sony. You have no problem doing it with MS James.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm not defending the game. I hope it burns in a dumpster fire.

I am just trying to apply logic to the game's failure. It's a new startup company, that's clearly risky in and of itself, it's a new IP, that's another risk. Yeah, it failed spectacularly. But some are making it out to be way more than it is. It's not like Naughty Dog made this and it's going to kill a cherished studio. Sony already absorbed the loss of Concord with Helldivers 2's success. That's just part of their GaaS strategy, you're going to win some and lose some.

I guess I don't understand why you feel the need to try and put this in some sort of context

Startup or not this studio is filled with veteran devs so its not like these are all rookies making their first Indie game

This part is not directed at you just personal feelings but with how these devs are interacting on Social Media and the whole Professor deal this group feels more like castoffs that found each other and forced their agenda onto people and we didn't buy it and now they are lashing out at us for not accepting it

 

[SidViscous]

OP is a very generous person as it turns out, the game never even hit 700 in the end.

Edit: Went to check out the official Discord, and they are just chatting about Switch games now

 

[Moses85]

What a waste of, Money, time and Developing resourches.

 

[Holammer]

I personally loving the continuous development of coping and excuses since the closed beta.

People so desperately grasping at straws to give this turd a pass or hope for success when it's failure was so well signaled.

Now the press and Era are desperately trying to figure out why this did not find an audience.

This is hilarious! I love watching delluded fucks backed into a corner where narratives and excuses just all fail.

I don't read ERA, but I imagine everyone knows why, but discussing/saying it openly would be against the orthodoxy.

 

[Fafalada]

What's there to doubt? You don't spend this amount of money developing a $40 game expecting to move 100K or even 1 million units.

Who knows how that was pitched 8 years ago - but to project/expect 10M sales after that open-beta weekend (or indeed the entire runup to launch this year) would require gross incompetence.
At this point the only plan they could have towards profitability would involve gradual ramp up in building an audience (which - to be frank, is how many better GaaS do things - the 'AAA' expectation to come out of the gate swinging isn't how this business usually succeeds) - and the relative lack of marketing spend (compared to their premier titles) is indicative of either that, or just sending thing out to die.

Their internal revenue forecasts were clearly on par with their premier singleplayer titles.

Maybe a year ago - before they had much idea about market response to the announcement. Let me put it another way - S&B, which has been in dev for over 12 years and cost even more - is not doing much better - and I can guarantee you noone in that team expected 10M+ (in first 6 months) they would need to even hope to recoup the investment. But I have some inside view into that one - Concord it's just based on outside observations.

Oh it sold 2 thousand copies versus a few hundred

I mean in fairness - if a title hit 1000 CCU - the sales are in tens-of thousands. But yea it's still pocket change for these budgets.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I bought the game so im not a "hater" but the majority of this games fanbase is something else....

Ahh remember the good old pre-2016 days, back before games had strong masculine male characters and attractive feminine female characters?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I guess I don't understand why you feel the need to try and put this in some sort of context

Startup or not this studio is filled with veteran devs so its not like these are all rookies making their first Indie game

This part is not directed at you just personal feelings but with how these devs are interacting on Social Media and the whole Professor deal this group feels more like castoffs that found each other and forced their agenda onto people and we didn't buy it and now they are lashing out at us for not accepting it

Well, I am torn on this game and this studio.

On one hand it is a competent game and fun to play. On the other hand, it has no long term progression systems....is a little too convoluted with team play (not casual enough, tbh).....there are some very woke developers making this.....and the art style is totally ratchet.

I guess I just hope that something good can eventually come from this - fire the woke virus that created the terrible theme for this game, re-focus on doing something actually NEW, or become a support studio.

 

[FunkMiller]

I bought the game so im not a "hater" but the majority of this games fanbase is something else....

Nobody wants to play an action hero shooter video game as a fat cunt.

End of.

People play video games of this kind as characters they'd like to be, or like to fuck. Male or female. Gay or straight. That's the way it always has been. Always will be.

 

[FunkMiller]

I had to google what DEI was, and in fear of being banned, I'm not going to comment on this topic further beyond wishing you people the very best of luck in life.

No one's going to ban you for making a defence of DEI in video games. This isn't Era.

You will probably get fucking rinsed by people, but that's another story.

 

[STARSBarry]

No one's going to ban you for making a defence of DEI in video games. This isn't Era.

You will probably get fucking rinsed by people, but that's another story.

He's one step away from Dustborning us and just screaming "YOU'RE RACIST"

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Big steam spike. +6% gamers in half an hour.

gamers increased from 398 to 423.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I bought the game so im not a "hater" but the majority of this games fanbase is something else....

And thinking more about this quote, I think what they meant was “I miss the good old days back when we could force wokeness into everything and people were too afraid to push back against it.”

 

[Moridianae]

Small group of people on their way to save the game by saying "Folks need to get back from work or school, mowing the lawn, going to the store, waiting for their paycheck"

Context: This is the Concordia shipwreck.

 

[SidViscous]

And thinking more about this quote, I think what they meant was “I miss the good old days back when we could force wokeness into everything and people were too afraid to push back against it.”

I'm also thinking about it, why can't a character have big tits and big muscles!

 

[Stuart360]

Big steam spike. +6% gamers in half an hour.

gamers increased from 398 to 423.

US waking up. It might even be able to hit 600 like yesterday. Now THAT is player retention!.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

This is embarrassing.

 

[Stuart360]

The Gollum thing is so funny. I mean players would rather play Gollum than Concord.
If this whole situation isnt a wake up call to wokists, i dont know what is.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is embarrassing.

Thats kind of cray when you think about.

Not because it's two games nobody asked for, but one is a stealth game. A genre most gamers dont care about at all. The other is a shooter which is probably the most played genre where just about anyone will download a beta or try it. Even awful suicide Squad somehow squeezed in 13,000 steam gamers at peak CCU.

 

[Goalus]

Big steam spike. +6% gamers in half an hour.

gamers increased from 398 to 423.

And we still have Sunday ahead of us.

 

[reinking]

 

[Reaseru]

I'm also thinking about it, why can't a character have big tits and big muscles!

Big tits matter too.

And...Wtf has Donald Trump or Tate have to do with anything? The dude was president from 2016-2020. Most humans feel attracted for good looking people since FOREVER.

Everywhere in nature the most beautiful beings are the ones who have the most chances to a successful mate. It's biology.

 

[Solarstrike]

 

[Stuart360]

I dont understand the 'Skull and Bones' numbers. Did it launch later on Steam?, how could it not of hit 1k players at launch.

 

[StereoVsn]

So we know redfall made at least 400k in revenue on steam, HB2 100k, and concord at least 30k. Each game costing $100M to make

What do we conclude about these? They are all massive failures. They each lost into 9 figures each, and one closed the studio for good

Selling a few thousand more or being on cheap sub service doesn’t change this fact

That’s concurrent. Rule of thumb is usually 10x total vs concurrent. Although that may not always be correct especially for first weekend.

 

[Ceadeus]

Well, Sony is still trying.

they're like, PLEASE BUY CONCORD WE'LL DO ANYTHING

 

[Ozriel]

How do you know? Hellblade 2 was in development for 6 years @ 120 employees. Even if we assume that Bleeding Edge was fully using the studio until 2020, that's 4 years @ 120 employees @ $150k per employee cost ($100k or less wages + benefits, and $50k overhead) = 72M alone, and that does not include any other costs which get rolled into it (external contractors, marketing, etc). Yeah, Hellblade 2 is certainly close to $100M if not exceeding it.

You're fully into "making up bullshit and believing all Phil Spencer's lies" mode, aren't you?

Hellblade 2 looks to have had around 4.5 years of development in total, with actual dev work kicking off sometime in 2020, post reveal. We had a thread here that pretty much confirms this. Heck, you participated in that thread!

And it only took that long because work - including the photogrammetry capture in Iceland - was heavily impacted by COVID.

The studio confirmed that at the peak, they only ever had 80 developers at it in total. They’re based in the UK where game dev salaries are lower. Your $150k per employee estimate is laughable.

Additionally, they also implemented a lot of cost cutting and budget methods to achieve AAA, including tricks used in the first Hellblade. In their own words…

The core team working on Hellblade 2 is around 80, a massive leap compared to the 20 or so who staffed the original game – but low by most AAA standards. It's strange to think that the transformative 3D audio that helps bring every second of Senua's Saga to life is the result of actors crawling around a mannequin head in a small soundproof room, or that the environment team – responsible for digitizing slices of Iceland with state-of-the-art photogrammetry techniques – is comprised of just eight developers, and the combat and visual effects teams are just as lean. "I still think of Ninja Theory as kind of a boutique studio," Matthews laughs.

You can read this article in full here

Like I said, I’d be surprised if the game cost anything above $50, which was 5x the budget of the original Hellblade.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I bought the game so im not a "hater" but the majority of this games fanbase is something else....

Lol, If i wanted see fat ugly ppl i just go for a walk, dont need that shit on my games

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

That’s concurrent. Rule of thumb is usually 10x total vs concurrent. Although that may not always be correct especially for first weekend.

SteamDB shows these estimates. No idea what their methodology is or how accurate they are.

But yeah… 6.5K at $40 each, minus Steam’s cut…. They probably made enough money to pay for like 6 weeks of The Professor’s salary + benefits.

 

[Solarstrike]

Welp. Looks like it's about time for SONY to run a $24.99 sale on The Last of Us Digital Deluxe Edition to make up for at least some of the loss.

 

[Robb]

This is embarrassing.

Man.. Lower than Gollum….

That’s rough.