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[shadowsdarknes]

The people are the ones who decide whether or not what she says is "clean".

In general, and this isn't directed particularly to you, I think it's a ridiculous argument to suggest that she shouldn't release them because they would be at risk for misinterpretation and taken out of context. That logic could be applied to anything she says.

Plenty of innocuous things are taken out of context.
In this case, it's direct fodder for Sanders and Trump.
It's understandable she does not care to have them released.

But this is besides the point. You asked if "How can they be used against her if they are clean. This is absurd"

The fact that it's a Goldman Sachs speech has already made in unclean in many people's eyes. The context and content really wouldn't matter at all to some.

So even if they were clean (one speech she gave was about promoting women entrepreneurship), these speeches are not politically advantageous to her right now. At least, not in a populist primary.

 

[WaffleTaco]

if not for hilary's "superdelegate" count, it WOULD be a close race.

even split those and bernie would be ~200 delegates behind, instead of 600, but alas.

between trump and bernie that one would be hard, 50/50 either way, i like bernie but leary of what he wants to do. not crazy for trump but...

between trump and hillary..i'd vote for trump because, i dislike hillary more than i dislike trump.

if trump not there and hillary there, my vote goes to the best candidate not named hillary clinton.

That's ridiculous. I am not a huge Hillary, fan but at least we know what she believes in (Democratic Values) and even if she does not personally...we still have her voting record and will know she will follow those Democratic values. Do you know what Trump stands for? A giant fucking wall....and even if he does not believe that, and is just pandering to gain votes...than how can you trust him, especially with the way he acts.

 

[Future]

Again, context. I'm not saying it's right to be confrontational when it's not appropriate, but we're in an increasingly complex society that is still basing it's course on a belief system that is increasingly at odds with that society's development.

Life requires us to be assholes sometimes. It sucks, I hate confrontation too.

Theists will rationalize their behavior in the same way based on their own beliefs. For them they are "saving" the individual or promoting morality in a moral deficient world. And for them id say the same thing... If they want to get anywhere in that conversation, don't paint atheists as bad, evil satanists. And atheists shouldn't paint theists as ignorant, fairy tail believing, idiots. Because both sides are generalizing entire groups in those assertions, so it will simply shit down the conversation

If you want to discuss and potentially convince people, insulting or demeaning them is not the way to go unless the goal is merely to argue. You don't have to be an asshole to get points across

 

[noshten]

Plenty of innocuous things are taken out of context.
In this case, it's direct fodder for Sanders and Trump.
It's understandable she does not care to have them released.

But this is besides the point. You asked if "How can they be used against her if they are clean. This is absurd"

The fact that it's a Goldman Sachs speech has already made in unclean in many people's eyes. The context and content really wouldn't matter at all to some.

So even if they were clean (one speech she gave was about promoting women entrepreneurship), these speeches are not politically advantageous to her right now. At least, not in a populist primary.

Yep it's a big issue now and in a GE, the speech you quoted is not a paid speech in fact it was organized by Clinton Global Initiative. If most of her speeches were like this one without a QA with industry leaders she would have already released them.

 

[Holmes]

I know. Im however glad Bernie doesn't take part in organized religion. If he or Hillary was atheists that would be even better.

Having a prime minister or president who worship fairytales is not someone I would want to elect.

This is very rude. I respect Clinton's religious beliefs and I don't believe any religion myself. There actually is a such thing as a "Christian left", but it's been overly drowned out by the Christian right in this country (and in Canada to a degree) in recent times.

 

[ZealousD]

A pathetic attitude? You're aware of other atheists? Heard them speak, listened to their music, read their books, etc? Calling out theism as 'fairly tales' is prevalent in atheist thinking, if not ubiquitous. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be antagonistically critical of theists in the appropriate context (e.g. religion in politics). Discrediting theism is inherent to atheism, if not essential.

As they say, atheism is not a religion in the same way that "off" is not a TV channel.

Just because you don't watch TV yourself doesn't mean you necessarily should spend your time arguing with people that do.

To say that discrediting theism is "inherent" to atheism applies that atheism is a position itself, rather than a lack of belief in some other position.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yep it's a big issue now and in a GE, the speech you quoted is not a paid speech in fact it was organized by Clinton Global Initiative. If most of her speeches were like this one without a QA with industry leaders she would have already released them.

Uh, that's not how that works.

There's a couple of reasons she wouldn't release these speeches that don't involve anything about their content.

- She doesn't want to get pushed around by Bernie. Why should she give into his demands? She's winning, he's losing. He's in no position to force her to do anything.

- She might not even be allowed to release them. Part of the contract with her speeches might involve a form of secrecy over them, which doesn't necessarily mean there's shady stuff going on.

 

[JP_]

Is that gaffer still making 30 minutes highlight vids?

 

[gamechanger87]

Uh, that's not how that works.

There's a couple of reasons she wouldn't release these speeches that don't involve anything about their content.

- She doesn't want to get pushed around by Bernie. Why should she give into his demands? She's winning, he's losing. He's in no position to force her to do anything.

- She might not even be allowed to release them. Part of the contract with her speeches might involve a form of secrecy over them, which doesn't necessarily mean there's shady stuff going on.

Nope nope nope. She has had all of her speeches transcribed by her own team. She has them just doesn't want to release them.

If anyone at Goldman had recorded her speech and let it out there is nothing she could do. You don't sign an NDA for when you hear a person speak.

Mitt got in trouble because someone recorded him talking to people. If someone had recorded her speeches they would be out already.

 

[gutter_trash]

LTTP
listening to it now.... oh the Sanders pivot from water to Wall Street

edit LOLOLOL
the religious question!!!
hahahahaha

now i understand how the way that the question was phrased ignited so much reaction because IMO, it is a stupid question

 

[Justin]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

 

[B-Dubs]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

This isn't helping.

EDIT: If anything this makes it worse.

 

[Amir0x]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

Bernie just end the campaign gracefully and shit :<

 

[gutter_trash]

I hope they end this on the night of March 15th.

 

[Jams775]

Bernie just end the campaign gracefully and shit :<

Maybe Bernie is really Elvis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6am8V5KNJ4A

 

[gutter_trash]

Maybe Bernie is really Elvis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6am8V5KNJ4A

I like this version better, LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpufzJNrZ2Y

 

[BanGy.nz]

I hope they end this on the night of March 15th.

He's in it until at least April 19th.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Theists will rationalize their behavior in the same way based on their own beliefs. For them they are "saving" the individual or promoting morality in a moral deficient world. And for them id say the same thing... If they want to get anywhere in that conversation, don't paint atheists as bad, evil satanists. And atheists shouldn't paint theists as ignorant, fairy tail believing, idiots. Because both sides are generalizing entire groups in those assertions, so it will simply shit down the conversation

If you want to discuss and potentially convince people, insulting or demeaning them is not the way to go unless the goal is merely to argue. You don't have to be an asshole to get points across

Progress isn't made by being fair to unsound ideas. Again, I'm not saying be a dick to theists for no good reason, but rather speak your mind in no uncertain terms when the person listening deserves it. This is usually the case when that person is making decisions- or agreeing with decisions- based on faith that would be considered unsound or destructive by any rational perspective.

As they say, atheism is not a religion in the same way that "off" is not a TV channel.

Just because you don't watch TV yourself doesn't mean you necessarily should spend your time arguing with people that do.

To say that discrediting theism is "inherent" to atheism applies that atheism is a position itself, rather than a lack of belief in some other position.

Atheism is absolutely a position. Just because it is a rejection of the belief in a god does not mean that it is somehow a state of emptiness. For that to be the case, one must not have ever heard of god or religion to even contemplate it's validity. Then there is no position taken.

 

[BitStyle]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

Well that didn't help at all. C'mon, Bernie

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

This didn't help at all. Smh.

 

[CharminUltra]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

Heh

 

[Grover Cleveland]

Bernie sinking

 

[The Technomancer]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

*facedesk*

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

This sounds kind of racist...

 

[Maddness]

The only thing that really bugs me about Hilary is that she frequently uses Obama and lately her husband's presidency in her answers to questions. That bugs the shit out of me for some reason. I mean I know she's involved in both, but it's like she's Al Gore'ing the internet with that line of thinking.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Bernie really does think that he's infallible, and that really doesn't work for Democrats. He's a bad candidate, though I do understand his appeal and his success through this primary.

 

[The Lamonster]

if not for hilary's "superdelegate" count, it WOULD be a close race.

even split those and bernie would be ~200 delegates behind, instead of 600, but alas.

between trump and bernie that one would be hard, 50/50 either way, i like bernie but leary of what he wants to do. not crazy for trump but...

between trump and hillary..i'd vote for trump because, i dislike hillary more than i dislike trump.

if trump not there and hillary there, my vote goes to the best candidate not named hillary clinton.

I see this sentiment all the time from low information voters. They hate Hillary. I'm not sure why exactly, but to hear someone say they'd vote for Trump over her is truly dumbfounding.

It usually comes from folks who identify as independent, and prefer to think of themselves as free thinkers, not bound to either major party. Amazing how Trump has already hooked some of these people.

I hope they end this on the night of March 15th.

Got my notice in the mail (MO) today! Looking forward to voting.

 

[Steel]

Wow Bernie. Way to dig a hole deeper where there wasn't one just one day ago.

I see this sentiment all the time from low information voters. They hate Hillary. I'm not sure why exactly, but to hear someone say they'd vote for Trump over her is truly dumbfounding.

It usually comes from folks who identify as independent, and prefer to think of themselves as free thinkers, not bound to either major party. Amazing how Trump has already hooked some of these people.

Way to lump all NPA's in one basket.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

oh my..

 

[Justin]

He's in it until at least April 19th.

Really? At some point it become irresponsible of him to continue asking poor college kids for their money just to make a point.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

The only thing that really bugs me about Hilary is that she frequently uses Obama and lately her husband's presidency in her answers to questions. That bugs the shit out of me for some reason. I mean I know she's involved in both, but it's like she's Al Gore'ing the internet with that line of thinking.

The same reason that the GOP name drop Obama as a failure and Reagan as GOD during their debates. The bases feel very strongly about these particular figures (good or bad), why not play into it for some cheap applause. Especially when Hilary is relatively close to both Barry and William.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Went back a couple of pages and didn't see this posted.

Bernie clarifies his ghetto comment from last night.

“What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what you’re talking about is African-American communities.”

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

Lol.

When I was talking about Ghettos I wasn't talking about black people I was talking about their communities

 

[brainchild]

He's actually not wrong on this matter (ghettos are by definition slums of minority/impoverished people), but he should have taken a different approach to clearing this up.

 

[dave is ok]

This sounds kind of racist...

"Ghetto" is an outdated that term no one uses, but I don't think anything he said was racist. Black families living in public housing is disproportionately high.

He fucked up really bad trying to get at that though.

 

[ZealousD]

Atheism is absolutely a position. Just because it is a rejection of the belief in a god does not mean that it is somehow a state of emptiness. For that to be the case, one must not have ever heard of god or religion to even contemplate it's validity. Then there is no position taken.

Sounds like we are going to have to agree to disagree because you are arguing that atheism is a rejection of a belief while myself and others argue that it is a lack of a belief.

So this is purely a semantic game.

 

[Maddness]

The same reason that the GOP name drop Obama as a failure and Reagan as GOD during their debates. The bases feel very strongly about these particular figures (good or bad), why not play into it for some cheap applause. Especially when Hilary is relatively close to both Barry and William.

I understand completely why she does it, I just don't understand why people wouldn't be able to differentiate the god king Obama and Busta-Bill from her own merits and ask why she can't use her own examples instead of using theirs? It baffles me.

 

[params7]

Why is the left so adamant in trying to portray Bernie Sanders as the potential racist?

Edit: Apparently sexist too because he shut down Hillary when she tried to cut in?

 

[BanGy.nz]

Really? At some point it become irresponsible of him to continue asking poor college kids for their money just to make a point.

After the 15th he's going to get a string of wins until April 19th when New York votes, he either loses or wins small but either way that's the end of him.

 

[excelsiorlef]

He's actually not wrong on this matter (ghettos are by definition slums of minority/impoverished people), but he should have taken a different approach to clearing this up.

It shows yet again that he can't help but connect everything to money and economics.

He was basically saying white people can't relate to black people because they don't live in Ghettos.

He really seems to think economics is the root of racism.

 

[Amir0x]

Why is the left so adamant in trying to portray Bernie Sanders as the potential racist?

oh we don't have to try if he keeps answering these race questions with the lobster claws he calls his opinion on the issue.

 

[brainchild]

To be honest, I think it just highlights Bernie's racial blind spots even more, which is ironic, considering that his comment was a response to a question about his racial blind spots, lol

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Sounds like we are going to have to agree to disagree because you are arguing that atheism is a rejection of a belief while myself and others argue that it is a lack of a belief.

So this is purely a semantic game.

I think you mean that atheism is not a belief in nothing, but rather a lack of belief. People argue that one, not whether or not it's a position taken.

 

[excelsiorlef]

To be honest, I think it just highlights Bernie's racial blind spots even more, which is ironic, considering that his comment was a response to a question about his racial blind spots, lol

Again this is the same guy whose staffer tried to sell Bernie Sanders to a local NAACP chapter President in South Carolina by saying Sanders is for welfare.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Why is the left so adamant in trying to portray Bernie Sanders as the potential racist?

He might not be truly racist, but he is really poor at discussing race issues. To the point where he could be taken the wrong way.

 

[gutter_trash]

Bernie spent too much time in Vermont and didn't get updated about the changes happening outside Burlington, VT

lol his stance on guns alone highlight his pandering to rural farmers over inner city kids.

 

[Slayven]

 

[davepoobond]

Why is the left so adamant in trying to portray Bernie Sanders as the potential racist?

Edit: Apparently sexist too because he shut down Hillary when she tried to cut in?

if a republican said what he was saying they would get the same shit.

 

[vainglorious]

lol That comment on ghettos from Bernie, just...

Nope.

 

[brainchild]

It shows yet again that he can't help but connect everything to money and economics.

He was basically saying white people can't relate to black people because they don't live in Ghettos.

He really seems to think economics is the root of racism.

This post just shows your ignorance on his beliefs. You can argue that his messaging isn't clear on the issue of racism, but his platform is clear that there are various factors to consider when talking about racism, outside of economics. If you would have taken even a cursory glance at his website you would have proven yourself wrong.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/


You can conjure up this false narrative as much as you want, but it doesn't stop being bullshit just because you keep repeating it.

 

[gutter_trash]

if a republican said what he was saying they would get the same shit.

the media would have fun with that all day if it was a Republican