Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Pros can't play Kunkka for shit m8
they can't land shit and boat are more shit
dont diss my man kunkka
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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
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Pros can't play Kunkka for shit m8
they can't land shit and boat are more shit
dont diss my man kunkka
Haunted
Member
lol doesn't have a pause button??
holy shit
Indefensible oversight/bad design decision, just like Dota 2's lack of a surrender option.
20k gold diff
2 sets of rax down
Situations where it's very unlikely to make a comeback.
Of course stuff like that can be gamed so I dunno.
No surrender doesn't bother me much since I try to finish ASAP if I'm stomping and I just alt tab alt if I'm getting stomped.
Gold, Exp, Towers, K/D Ratio, Last Hit, Denying.. I mean they already build all that stat tracking for their e-sports scene, they could do it if they want... they smart enough.
You know at some point there are like .00001% chances you can come back, Why waste time?
perryfarrell
Member
The main disadvantage of a concede option is that it provides yet more reason for fighting, grieving, reporting, etc.
Now players report, fight and cuss each other out, for their play or their items or whatever. But if concede were to get added, 95% of reports would be: Player such-and-such started to concede right away! Or: player such-and-such refused to concede.
It's just a bad idea all around. Better just to wait a minute or two until the game ends.
Now players report, fight and cuss each other out, for their play or their items or whatever. But if concede were to get added, 95% of reports would be: Player such-and-such started to concede right away! Or: player such-and-such refused to concede.
It's just a bad idea all around. Better just to wait a minute or two until the game ends.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
That means you gifted Dota 2 to 9 people.
Shorty11857
Member
Dota 2 really needs a better pause option, once the game is paused the other team shouldn't be able to instantly unpause
Someone hasn't played with kagbros.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
If people want to concede let them.
For the sake of having a decent match - put it 25 minutes.
Don't penalise people making them wait for 3 people on the opposition team to stop farming and finally push through.
For the sake of having a decent match - put it 25 minutes.
Don't penalise people making them wait for 3 people on the opposition team to stop farming and finally push through.
Mister Zimbu
Member
I would argue getting stomped by a team with carries 7 levels above you and a 50k gold advantage doesn't really do anything to improve your game. Certainly does less to improve you than quickly getting into a new game where you're on an even playing field again.
Add me to the camp that thinks comebacks are awesome, but are so obscenely rare that it's really not worth losing wasting 30 minutes of time for the 1% chance you may actually win. I'm all for making it harder to surrender so it's not spammed constantly 15 minutes in when the other team's ahead 1-0.
And I don't care what Valve says about "never" adding surrendering. If enough people complain, they will do something.
Freakinchair
Member
If you're getting stomped hard enough you don't have to wait long before the game is over. If you're not getting stomped that hard you can come back and win. This is why there is no concede option.
Enco said:
Pulling statistics out of your ass isn't going to do any favors to your stupid argument.
yo how about those antiquated mechanics like secret shop and turn rates
Oooh well then.
perryfarrell
Member
Valve has thought long and hard on the benefits and costs of adding a Surrender option. They think the negatives outweigh the positives. Many smart people agree with Valve in this assessment. End of story.
PillowKnight
Member
I hate you and everyone like you, go back to dota1 newbs.
Save concede, save manabars.
Yeah, people keep using this unofficial concede option not 2 minutes into my games.
Freakinchair
Member
What kind of mythical games are you playing where the enemy team has a 50k gold advantage and the game drags out another 30 minutes? Leave the stupid hypotheticals at home please. I don't want shitty players dictating that our team has "lost" and "gg" spam concede as soon as they can if laning phase doesn't go well. I've played thousands of hours of league/HoN and know exactly what the concede option does to people.
Interfectum
Member
Nailed it.
The way the community is now, if a surrender option was available they would be mashing it the second it was "enabled" simply because a tower is down or initial hero picks. God it would suck. Lack of surrender actually forces players to try and come back because there's no way to bail.
I'm fine without them, but I think it would allow people to be able to be more aggressive, and raise the skill floor.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Just use the commands. Default is Q to base, W to secret shop, D to get the things from your stash, F to deliver to you and R for max speed.
wow... easy tiger, thought we were among friends here.
Rush2thestart
Member
Uh no. You think they would make it so if one person on your team surrenders the game is over? Surrendering should be unanimous. If all your teammates want to surrender but you...guess what. You'll continue playing.
I dunno if I have ever seen a game with a 50k advantage, the game has already been ended by that point for me. It's hard to know if you're exaggerating or not, cause it might happen at lower levels of mm and I remember giving you the invite to the beta (not trying to put your opinion down, it might just be a different game experience for me).
If it's really a much bigger problem at lower levels valve might do something, but for me it was an abnormal experience yday when 4 of my 7 games yday were stomps, when usually it's usually quite even until 20 to x minutes for me. And even then one of the games we nearly pulled off a comeback, but it didn't quite happen.
I'm pretty sure it's E for base, F for secret shop, Y for items from base, T to transfer, D to drop items, and R for speed burst.
legacy keys \o/
But lower the skill cap? And from just speculation it would give the aggressor less of an advantage compared to the ones getting initiated on, considering most of the unexpected aggression comes with more asymmetric information comes from rotations.
I like that there's ambiguity and that you can bluff lazy players, but I wouldn't object to the manabar of an enemy popping up if you moused over the enemy unit. Same information, just a bit quicker to interface with it.
Interfectum
Member
Uh I've played plenty of games where a vote / give up option is available and over time all it takes is one person to even suggest the option and there is a good chance people will automatically follow suit. It's awful and it breeds bad habits. It's not even a big deal in this game most of the time anyway.
shira
Member
Do people want a QQ thread? There seems to be too much hate in the OT.
OT should be about good games and questions rather than bitching and complaining.
Haunted
Member
Seems like a divisive opinion in the community or the lack of one wouldn't come up as a discussion point so often.
I say put it in the game and give it a couple months trial period, see how the community reacts.
perryfarrell
Member
And guess what else.... people will non-stop whine and complain about who conceded, and who didn't. You'll get reported for refusing to concede, or perhaps because you initiated the concede too soon. It's a clusterfuck.
Don't you think Valve has considered all these issues? Don't you think Valve has smart people who have debated the pro's and con's of these options for months and years? Why would a forum poster who spends 2 minutes thinking about this question have a more reasonable verdict on whether this option should be there? It's just silly.
Valve does not deny such an option has SOME positives. It's just that there are more negatives than positives.
RubxQub
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Why the hell do we always talk about surrendering?
I won a game last night that literally lasted 1.5 hours. OVER NINETY MINUTES. We should have had our shit pushed in over an hour before that, but the other team didn't build up their heroes nearly to the level they should have with that level of map control and farm advantage.
We made a final push, survived multiple buybacks...got double raxs and almost the ancient...bought back ourselves, smoked in...had an epic fight at their ancient, couldn't beat down the backdoor protection...300 hp left...then backdoor dropped and we won.
Insanely exhausting...but winning in troubled times like that is so awesome. The concede button would take that away.
Be gone with this filthy discussion!
I won a game last night that literally lasted 1.5 hours. OVER NINETY MINUTES. We should have had our shit pushed in over an hour before that, but the other team didn't build up their heroes nearly to the level they should have with that level of map control and farm advantage.
We made a final push, survived multiple buybacks...got double raxs and almost the ancient...bought back ourselves, smoked in...had an epic fight at their ancient, couldn't beat down the backdoor protection...300 hp left...then backdoor dropped and we won.
Insanely exhausting...but winning in troubled times like that is so awesome. The concede button would take that away.
Be gone with this filthy discussion!
SteveWinwood
Member
It's not a "divisive opinion worth discussing", it's just this thread's period. It comes up once a month and bloats the post count and is slightly painful for everyone. Also includes tons of bitching.
I think we all love dota, that's why we here.. different opinions, no need for name calling and insults thou.
Maybe they'll vote split and Dota 2 can sneak in for first place?
Who am I kidding?
I find the mana bar discussion more interesting because I've not entirely made up my mind on it. Both sides have decent arguments but I do feel that if they added them there would be some skills needing rebalancing.
Wasn't always the case when I played. Quite a few times people would play with their opponents and not finish the game just so they could pad out their builds more.
that1dude24
Member
this talk of wasting time while playing dota is so surreal to me
Haunted
Member
Everyone immediately assumes the worst possible case and abuse with the surrender option. :/
Even in my limited (well, comparatively) time with the game, I've already seen this happen more often than I would ever care for.
SteveWinwood
Member
How many hundreds of hours in are you?
Interfectum
Member
As is the worst case scenarios without a surrender option. In hundreds of hours of play time I've only been annoyed maybe a handful a matches that I can't bail early and requeue. I don't want the entire mindset/community uplifted for 5-6 hours of annoyance vs hundreds of hours of total play time. It's not worth it.
And ironically in a lot of cases the people who complain in-game about how the game is over, they want to surrender, idle at the fountain, etc are usually the players bringing down the team to begin with.
I have 3 "gifts" what are they suppose to do?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Mac/Linux forums up on the Dev boards. Looks like it'll only be launching on Test servers for now.
I'm pretty sure that from most people here it's mostly from experience with ppl playing both ihls in dota 1 and hon, and then compared it to the dota 2 experience. It's just more fun without surrender.
Even from a game theoretical view point it's pretty clear that the person doing the worst in your team will have an incentive to make the other people surrender if the option is available, hence making the chance of comebacks extremely low.
RubxQub
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎÎ³Î»Î¿Ï Ïον καί ÏÎµÏ Î´Î¿Î»Ïγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I'm not making the mistake of assuming gametime = skill again. I played with some dudes from Reddit the other day and saw they all had 700+ wins banked, so I assumed they'd all be better than me.
...well if they were better than me, they definitely didn't act like it. Crying immediately that the game was lost when the laning phase didn't go perfectly despite our team having the considerably stronger late game. Lots of crappy map awareness. Inability to communicate...
I don't get how you can play this game that much and NOT be a competent player. I've only banked 500 hours, and I know I've got a lot of things I can improve...but I know when I'm fucking up and I know when I'm killing it. I know when I was out of position. I know when I should have saved for buyback vs. buying that HoT... But these people not only do dumb shit, they act as though they have no idea what they are doing is even wrong.
Totally crazy stuff.
Fucking this. God damn are these people the worst.
You aren't pro because you "know when you've lost after 10 minutes"...you're an asshole.
Mister Zimbu
Member
It was hyperbole and I will openly admit I'm still terrible and relatively new (~200 matches) at the game. My biggest concern are games where the other team maliciously decides to drag out the game to get megacreeps + as many roshes as possible, and even goes as far as to prevent their creeps from getting to the ancient and just farming the team's fountain until they abandon (very rare but it's happened to me).
I just don't understand why it has to be this binary thing where either surrender is available before laning is even over or there is none at all. Any number of things could be tried to implement a surrender button without affecting the integrity of the game. I honestly believe that if the requirements are high enough that the concede won't be abused.
Hell, they could just make it another search/game option "Surrender", "No Surrender", "Don't Care". Swap it out with the completely useless language search if you're low on UI space.
Side note - I will be surprised if one of my moves in my last game doesn't show up on fails of the week. It was quite possibly the worst placed Dark Seer wall ever, followed by a completely whiffed vacuum. Screw DS and his 5 foot cast range
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