Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I think maybe 5 stacks should have a concede option, but this would just be abused by some by immediately conceding when a game doesn't go their way(they already kind of do this by having someone abandon).
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Dota 2 |OT13| 6.86, our Pit Lord and savior
- Thread starter Hylian7
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So how often have you guys actually seen decent to good Arc Wardens? I can count the number of times on one hand, and I think it's like two. I had one last night that tried to play support and did absolutely nothing in the lane, and maxed out Flux and Magnetic Field before taking any points in Spark Wraith.
"Stay in the bubble" he says, as a Tusk and Crystal Maiden rapidly approach. Because it's totes going to help against them.
"Stay in the bubble" he says, as a Tusk and Crystal Maiden rapidly approach. Because it's totes going to help against them.
I might be crazy but searing arrow always felt like its range is broken to me
misses bull
Banned
So how often have you guys actually seen decent to good Arc Wardens? I can count the number of times on one hand, and I think it's like two. I had one last night that tried to play support and did absolutely nothing in the lane, and maxed out Flux and Magnetic Field before taking any points in Spark Wraith.
"Stay in the bubble" he says, as a Tusk and Crystal Maiden rapidly approach. Because it's totes going to help against them.
My friend can play him well. That's about it
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
if anyone saw the previous EE match with the ES, that's why this game needs a concede button.
EE still didn't want to give up though.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
when he wrote end and stayed in well for a bit?
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
You mean the guy that I've seen start to intentionally feed after he got a rough start on Bloodseeker? Kinda proves that not even pros are to be trusted with a concede option in pubs, some of them don't think a bad game is worth their time.
Number of concede limited per week like reports ( and maybe getting new one if the concede is sucessfull like reports, but not necessary ), and voilà you don't see everyone concede every single game.
Can probably even tinker it even more by making some balancing between concede and report, so that report on someone unsuccessful concede vote would hold more weight as to avoid people pressuring/trash talking/whatever the other because he didn't have the concede he wanted.
Now it's not like I care too much about it anymore since I only play on premade of at least 3 players, so a balanced concede option isn't really different to a premade ability to take turns for abandons if you don't need it too often.
They ended in 2 minutes anyway. Before then he was still trying even while being griefed.
You could flip this and say that pros aren't that different than pub players when it comes to acknowledging when they want the game to end, whether they could have won it or not.
I always find it strange, because in my view, a good temperament, and being resilient even in the face of bad starts, is a learned thing that deserves practice. Keeping their shit together in pubs will mean they get less flustered and are more robust in pro games. Like, if you know that someone can be pushed out of their comfort zone by three man ganking them five times in the first ten minutes, that seems like an exploitable weakness to me, and a weakness that it's worth working to improve.
So how often have you guys actually seen decent to good Arc Wardens? I can count the number of times on one hand, and I think it's like two. I had one last night that tried to play support and did absolutely nothing in the lane, and maxed out Flux and Magnetic Field before taking any points in Spark Wraith.
"Stay in the bubble" he says, as a Tusk and Crystal Maiden rapidly approach. Because it's totes going to help against them.
People get mad when I pick him so I have to mute everyone before the game starts
call_kotaku
Member
why is EE playing PA only? is it some anime thing?
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
They aren't in pubs, they definitely are in pro games, even EE doesn't start intentionally feeding in pro games and always gives a 100% even when it looks hopeless.
The second we start losing I start complaining we lost, but I always play it out anyways. Sometimes we win, but the game is still not fun. When this happens too many times I know I need a break from dota.
I would imagine that if it wasn't seen as super distasteful, they would. But that's speculation on my part.
My point is that Valve has chosen to add a surrender option for pro games but has not given it to the average player. But pro players' knowledge of when a game is truly lost is certainly there, but shouldn't be the only factor in determining whether there's a concede option in Dota. Which goes back to my other point:
sure, add it to unranked
Dreams-Visions
Member
agree. and based on the data and feedback, they can decide whether it works well enough to be added to ranked. and if nobody likes it after 3 or 4 months, just remove it altogether. Simple process.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I'm not 100% opposed to a concede option, I'm just of the opinion that if it's not done right it will ruin the game.
I'd rather not have a concede option be a thing in pubs. Guarantee you there would be an insane amount of games that were otherwise salvagable, end by 20 minutes because of a concede by one team because shit went south in 5 minutes.
That's something Dota has handled better than other games. I can't get hard numbers on this, but I guarantee you a very significant chunk of the games that looked like they were done in 10 minutes, we have turned around and won. On the flip side, I've played games where our team was completely wrecking the other team within 10 minutes, and we still managed to lose. This teaches people how to salvage bad situations like that, and makes for an overall better and more satisfying experience.
That's something Dota has handled better than other games. I can't get hard numbers on this, but I guarantee you a very significant chunk of the games that looked like they were done in 10 minutes, we have turned around and won. On the flip side, I've played games where our team was completely wrecking the other team within 10 minutes, and we still managed to lose. This teaches people how to salvage bad situations like that, and makes for an overall better and more satisfying experience.
SecretMoblin
Member
honestly the reason I care is because of what heavy and quesa have mentioned: I don't often have the luxury of spending many consecutive hours with the game, and when a full 25-30% of my playtime is spent not having fun I just don't want to play anymore. It's really not worth the rare thrill of coming back against crazy odds, not to me.
it's why I mostly spectate. I can accept getting stomped, but not when I'm trapped in a 90-minute game that I can't quit because i'll be shoved into a queue that's even more frustrating and unfun. If you guys are ok with that system, that's fine, you almost certainly spend more time playing than I do. But there are ways to shield a concede system from abuse or premature calls and it would enable me to have a lot more actual "fun" with the game rather than trying to entertain myself by shit-talking randoms and Ayub with POTAstack in coach chat.
...but I also agree that done poorly it can only enable the black hole of shit that is its community even further
it's why I mostly spectate. I can accept getting stomped, but not when I'm trapped in a 90-minute game that I can't quit because i'll be shoved into a queue that's even more frustrating and unfun. If you guys are ok with that system, that's fine, you almost certainly spend more time playing than I do. But there are ways to shield a concede system from abuse or premature calls and it would enable me to have a lot more actual "fun" with the game rather than trying to entertain myself by shit-talking randoms and Ayub with POTAstack in coach chat.
...but I also agree that done poorly it can only enable the black hole of shit that is its community even further
Imp the Dimp
Member
We also "encourage" the person on our stack who fed the game to impossiblity to abandon. Works perfectly.
shira
Member
Tribute of the Piercing Beak treasures marketable
All the other Frankfurt Major chest items, Immortal Tusk Whisky Stout and Infusers marketable
Shuggananas
Banned
NEVER GIVE UP XD
I'm pretty sure that gives everyone in the party an abandon now though.
I definitely agree here, and have no idea how they would be able to do it in a way that wouldn't make it ripe for abuse or defeatism.
manfestival
Member
Tribute of the Piercing Beak treasures marketable
All the other Frankfurt Major chest items, Immortal Tusk Whisky Stout and Infusers marketable
curse you for posting this literally one day before payday
This is correct, only difference is party abandons do not give you LPQ, they count toward it, but if you racked enough to get you LPQ, you won't until you actually abandon a game.
NormalFish
Banned
if they add a concede option, they need a box in the options menu that you can tick for an instant "no" to any concede calls.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Only the person to abandon gets the LPQ. I suppose we all get an abandon though, yeah.
rakkadakka
Member
The only time I'd concede is in those games where you're just waiting on the enemy team to end and you can't leave your base without dying.
Oh great, they have already have a huge lead and are just fucking around.. let me waste 15 minutes of my life while they farm up some more items to end.
It's one of those charming, "it's just dotes" things that really should be phased out since they seem intent on doing it in other parts of the game.
Oh great, they have already have a huge lead and are just fucking around.. let me waste 15 minutes of my life while they farm up some more items to end.
It's one of those charming, "it's just dotes" things that really should be phased out since they seem intent on doing it in other parts of the game.
I used to be for concede options, but having played dota with concede and without, I'm grateful that Valve didn't put concede in dota2. The defeatism, team trolling, and team bullying goes way down when there isn't a developer sanction outlet for the frustration moba players feel when the game gets rough. At this point the only concede option I'd even think is worth it to consider would just be a relabeling of the abandon system: limited availability for those one in a thousand games of 20 minute fountain camping where there is literally no come back, but off to low priority for you if you concede more than a few times in a over a long time frame.
luna with aghs is bascially
the sans boss fight
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
seizure warning
not really
rofl those are the most useless spoiler tags
first time streaming if anyone wants to watch. Playing windranger, tips are welcomed.
Stream on twitch, its a more popular site. Also, don't forget to range like the wind!
(for copyright reasons, no running like the wind will be tolerated).
Sigismundo
Member
Oh hey, Draskyl's Twitter was hacked again.
NormalFish
Banned
Naix is shit
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
I'm glad I was there for this part of Normalfish's character arc.
misses bull
Banned
What happened to the one punch man of dota
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
took you long enough
Vade
Member
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Moar like Livekitted EleGiggle
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Getting Aghs on Lion is always such a great feeling. Suddenly your strong but extremely precious tactical airstrike of an ult turns into a indiscriminate carpet bombing that you can sloppily throw out whenever you feel like it. Creepwave standing in your way? Fragile enemy heroes? Deleted.
Shoutouts to everyone that stacked with us tonight! Games were fun, shame you can't live in a proper timezone.
Shoutouts to everyone that stacked with us tonight! Games were fun, shame you can't live in a proper timezone.
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