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Dragon Age Veilguard, Non Binary character

kingwingin

Member
vsmaIJH.jpeg
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Yes 2022, surely the pinnacle of rational thought on this topic.

Do you know the pronoun for a non-binary entity has been since day one?

IT

"My pencil is over there, can you get it for me?"

"That's my friend. It's name is Taash"

See, no explanation needed! English wasn't the problem here.

"It" can also refer to inanimate objects, and can thus be considered dehumanizing and rude.

"They", while potentially confusing, is properly understood in the right context, and is definitely referring to a person, which makes it more polite when referring to people.

There are similar instances of this in other languages too, not just English.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
It is genuinely the most retarded trend in our modern day society.

100 years from now when you're nothing but bones, there will be only one way to identify your gender. I genuinely dislike how the term 'gender' has been hijacked to become utterly devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

There will be multiple forensic ways to identify the sex of someone's bones (shape, proportion, density, residual DNA, etc). Gender can be assumed to be the same as the sex, since it most likely was, unless there are other lifestyle clues or a biography or diary or something, that suggests otherwise.
 

Closer

Member
Yes 2022, surely the pinnacle of rational thought on this topic.

Do you know the pronoun for a non-binary entity has been since day one?

IT

"My pencil is over there, can you get it for me?"

"That's my friend. It's name is Taash"

See, no explanation needed! English wasn't the problem here.

It still isn't. Problem are those that don't really know it.
 

Tajaz2426

Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Seeing there is no evidence to support being trans or nonbinary, at this point it is becoming a mental health crisis.

They used to call it GID Gender Identity Disorder till the DSM V I believe and now it is structured under gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria presents just like schizophrenia and can present delusions in this manner for a lot of people suffering. You do not tell a schtizo that their couch is actually talking to them and you do not tell children or teenagers that their delusions about being the opposite sex is real.

Plenty of studies abroad on JSTOR shows no improvement in depression and suicidal ideation from taking hormones or having sex changes. It does show that a very strong percentage of young teenagers to adults have serious issues when they finally see what happened to them, have to take medications for the transplants of fake organs, and figures out they can never be a full person again.

Gender and sex are the same and a gender identity used to be used in statistics when showing the traits of a sex between feminine and masculine.

If you want to say you’re nonbinary, go for it, I live in reality. Just as science has proven you cannot transition, you cannot do this either.
 
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If the game is great and the story is interesting, what difference does it make?

If the game is lame and the story is shit, what difference does it make?

People that judge the game simply by existence of non binary characters are as stupid as Era dwellers.
It's the same kind of stupidity.


No, it's not.

In a world where there are many species that have sex with one another, the idea of "binary" is nonexistent. It's an oxymoron.

Therefore, there can't be a good story with immersion-breaking bullshit of that caliber. This is worldbuilding for dummies. I'm genuinely shocked that basic stuff like this needs to be explained.
 
This game is so far removed from the original offering it can hardly be considered part of the same franchise.

Ultimately, there is no real desire of behalf of the typical fantasy demographic to insert gender theory in this game. One could easily argue its inclusion turns away many more customers than it attracts.

It’s funny. Optionality could literally solve this problem for everyone. Simply add a toggle to enable | disable such divisive content… aka Saudi Mode. I wouldn’t care if the developer made simultaneously the most woke and least woke game imaginable if there was a toggle for it…

It’s ultimately the best compromise but sadly no one has yet had the courage to attempt it.
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
This game is so far removed from the original offering it can hardly be considered part of the same franchise.

Ultimately, there is no real desire of behalf of the typical fantasy demographic to insert gender theory in this game. One could easily argue its inclusion turns away many more customers than it attracts.

It’s funny. Optionality could literally solve this problem for everyone. Simply add a toggle to enable | disable such divisive content… aka Saudi Mode. I wouldn’t care if the developer made simultaneously the most woke and least woke game imaginable if there was a toggle for it…

It’s ultimately the best compromise but sadly no one has yet had the courage to attempt it.

But then they wouldn't be getting you to conform to/normalize their insanity in order to play the videogame.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
But for most of them it's just a preference, it makes them feel more comfortable. It's not a big deal.
Sure, and at an individual level, its usually pretty easy to accomodate folks that feel this way. BUUUUUT that doesn't mean we should be rewriting our language and instituting laws over it, nor getting lectures about it in our video games (or at least we shouldn't be called bigots if we don't like it).
You keep bringing up the sports thing, like I really think you are very confused about the difference between trans and non-binary, and I am kind of feeling like Dragon Age might be a good educational experience for you.
"I'm non-binary. Which swim team should I be on and which locker room can I change in? Which bathroom should I use? What roommate can I have and if they are uncomfortable with my external genitalia are they a horrible bigot? Which gender can I punch in the head for sport?"

See, 'non-binary' can be exploited just as badly as trans can or LGB depending on the context.
 

Stuart360

Member
Will be my first Dragon Age that i havent played. I mean its not even worth the bandwith to pirate.

I mean even Inqusition was pretty woke, and that came at a time when wokism was still in its infancy. God knows what a Dragon Age game would be like in 2024.
Well we know now i suppose, a cesspit of agenda drivel. And people defending this mass brainwashing in here lol.

Hopefully this is yet another 'Go woke, go broke' situation.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
"It" can also refer to inanimate objects, and can thus be considered dehumanizing and rude.

"They", while potentially confusing, is properly understood in the right context, and is definitely referring to a person, which makes it more polite when referring to people.

There are similar instances of this in other languages too, not just English.
But, but, but, language can CHANGE....right? Far easier to recontextualize a word and still be clear in conversation than to rewrite grammar entirely, plus make language difficult. Read any article talking about Ezra Miller. IF, and that's an IF, you consider being referred to the english "non-gender pronoun" IT to be a slur, then maybe, just maybe, spend your energies on gaining more acceptance for the word IT rather than insist on some sort of plurality status which is frankly ludicrous. Or do the Zee/Zir thing, that at least is legible and understandable and might be a worthy addition to the english language. I've read entire book series that use it and its fine.
 
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recursive

Member
"It" can also refer to inanimate objects, and can thus be considered dehumanizing and rude.

"They", while potentially confusing, is properly understood in the right context, and is definitely referring to a person, which makes it more polite when referring to people.

There are similar instances of this in other languages too, not just English.
Feelings don't have any impact on biology.
 

yogaflame

Member
This is what will put the nail in the coffin to the gaming industry if this force and push for twisted gender ideology becomes a norm in gaming. Movie and TV industry is already dying with so much twisted woke agenda, and gaming industry is starting to get plague by this agendas. Don't trust gaming reviews especially from western media, just trust your own conscience and instinct in getting your games. I'm not surprise if it sells due to existing political climate trend and influence and conditioning especially in the west. But I think it will just be temporary and everyone will be back to there senses and common sense.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
But, but, but, language can CHANGE....right?
Sure, it already has, but not the way you want it. That happens sometimes.

Far easier to recontextualize a word and still be clear in conversation than to rewrite grammar entirely, plus make language difficult.

Apparently not, since it already went the other way. Most likely for the reason I mentioned because maintaining respect was more important for this particular function of language.
 
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Jaybe

Gold Member
Writing is even more forced than I thought it would be. Wonder if any Sweet Baby Inc employees are in the credits since EA was in their client list


eYtXooS.jpeg
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
What? You are perverting science to accommodate feelings. Language is how we communicate information. It doesn't invalidate science.
I'm talking about the language that everyday humans use to communicate about everyday things.

Trust me, actual biologists have lots of vocabulary to describe human biology just fine already.
 
Disgusting, don't support this shit

Bioware is dead

Dragon-Age-The-Veilguard_2024_10_24_03_31_36_533.jpg


YJZ0Nl9.png
I don't believe non-binary is a real thing, I do believe a small number of people feel they were born in the wrong body but not the huge number of people who claim to be trans now when in reality most of them are just attention seeking cross dressers. That being said as long as this is just an option and can be ignored after that I don't really care too much, giving players choices in an RPG isn't really a bad thing. Now if they forced you to be trans or a side character was constantly lecturing about misgendering and dead naming they could screw off.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Biology doesn't care about what is rude. What are you talking about?

I told you, I'm talking about how everyday humans communicate with each other, where social decorum is important. This is linguistics not biology. Choosing "they" rather than "it" for a singular personal pronoun isn't denying science, don't be ridiculous.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I don't believe non-binary is a real thing, I do believe a small number of people feel they were born in the wrong body but not the huge number of people who claim to be trans now when in reality most of them are just attention seeking cross dressers. That being said as long as this is just an option and can be ignored after that I don't really care too much, giving players choices in an RPG isn't really a bad thing. Now if they forced you to be trans or a side character was constantly lecturing about misgendering and dead naming they could fuck off.
I agree.

99.9% are born male or female. And maybe a fraction of a % are the term hermaphrodite which is being born with both sex organs. That's simply a biological classification, nothing more.

How one feels about themselves, they can feel what they want. That's no different than someone feeling happy or sad. Right now as I type, I'm staring at my laptop and on my table is a mouse, TV remote and cellphone too. If I want to classify myself as a TV remote, I dont think anyone gives a shit. But end of the day, I'm still a male human being scientifically speaking.
 
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recursive

Member
I told you, I'm talking about how everyday humans communicate with each other, where social decorum is important. This is linguistics not biology. Choosing "they" rather than "it" for a singular personal pronoun isn't denying science, don't be ridiculous.
if you use a non descriptor such as non binary you are an it. It is a made up term. Feelings don't matter for biology or language. Expecting people to conform to your fantasy is laughable.

Don't be ridiculous.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
if you use a non descriptor such as non binary you are an it. It is a made up term. Feelings don't matter for biology or language. Expecting people to conform to your fantasy is laughable.

Don't be ridiculous.

Language is a result of how people at large use words. What is in the dictionary is descriptive, not prescriptive. Popular use dictates the evolution of language within a population, and it's already moved. You might not like it, but those facts don't care about your feelings.
 

Calico345

Gold Member
I solved the pronoun problem by simply referring to everyone by their name. It is one thing to be respectful of someone who happens to identify as a gender other than their birth gender and they are polite and casual about it. But when someone immediately starts with pronouns that I didn't ask for, now you're [insert name here] and nothing else.
 

recursive

Member
Language is a result of how people at large use words. What is in the dictionary is descriptive, not prescriptive. Popular use dictates the evolution of language within a population, and it's already moved. You might not like it, but those facts don't care about your feelings.
No matter how much you and your vocal minority wants this to be true you are wrong. Trendy language takes no knee to basic science. Market has spoken. Woke bullshit failed and with good reason. Cope more.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
No matter how much you and your vocal minority wants this to be true you are wrong. Trendy language takes no knee to basic science. Market has spoken. Woke bullshit failed and with good reason. Cope more.

I don't make the rules bro. I'm acknowledging the reality we live in. Again, basic science isn't being sacrificed for language. They both still function just fine. Biological males aren't being referred to as females in discussions about sex in biology papers.
 
This non binary crap is even more idiotic in portuguese. In eglish you just use they/them and call it a day. But in portuguese you have the rape the language to make it work.
It should be considered a crime.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
I don't make the rules bro. I'm acknowledging the reality we live in. Again, basic science isn't being sacrificed for language. They both still function just fine. Biological males aren't being referred to as females in discussions about sex in biology papers.

Always feels to me like people are getting two distinct things confused in this discussion: sex and gender.

Sex is immutable in the human species, as well as the vast majority of other species. Anyone positing anything different is using faulty logic and evidence.

Gender is a societal construct with no basis in biology. Therefore it's got a lot more wiggle room.

I'd have a lot more time for the trans movement if they accepted the former point. Science is science.
 
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Komatsu

Member
Wow, just got wind that the brazillian portuguese translation of Veilguard basically butchers our language to make gender neutral "grammar" fit into sentences.

Jeez, this is savage.

How so? Do they end nouns with "e" instead of "a" and/or "o" as in most Romance languages?
 

iorek21

Member
How so? Do they end nouns with "e" instead of "a" and/or "o" as in most Romance languages?

Seems to be even worse than just that, changing articles and making certain sentences hard to comprehend at first glance. Don't know if you're familiar with portuguese, but here's an image that someone posted on a brazillian gaming subreddit:

do-dragon-age-veilguard-ser%C3%A1-que-essa-linguagem-ser%C3%A1-v0-cvs1m7uysrxd1.png
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Bill Nye erased his old Science Guy episode about chromosomes
It seems that was due to usage rights, unless this report is inaccurate.


When the company decided to start selling old episodes on iTunes and other platforms, Disney quickly determined it wouldn’t make financial sense to upload all 100, and the company picked 31 of the most popular titles to distribute.

“It was a financial consideration,” said a spokesperson. “This sale isn’t super lucrative, so it doesn’t make sense to do all of them.”

Of those selected 31 episodes, the company still had to go through and determine what music and talent rights they had – and whether they could get clearance from performers. In some cases, if Disney couldn’t get ahold of an actor, that segment was pulled.

And indeed, Disney said many segments were pulled from those episodes due to standard music and clearance issues.

In other words, the (likely) low-level staffer charged with clearing the rights for “Bill Nye the Science Guy” in 2007 wasn’t thinking at all about gender politics – he or she probably wasn’t even listening to what that young person standing in front of the chalkboard was saying. That person couldn’t be found (it had been 10 years after all, and back in 1996 no one was including a digital run in actor contracts) – so the segment was yanked.

When Netflix added “Bill Nye the Science Guy” to its lineup, Disney/ABC gave the streamer the 31 episodes that had been cleared in the after market. (The remaining 69 episodes sit somewhere in a vault, but it probably won’t ever be worth clearing and paying royalties on those episodes.)
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Singular they was used for unknown antecedents ("I caught someone rummaging around in the trash today." "Oh, who was it?" "I didn't see their face."). Its use to refer to known antecedents of indeterminate gender ("This is Woketard, our new intern. They'll be with us for the next two months.") is a strictly modern innovation.
Up till fairly recently "he" was almost always used when gender was unknown or unspecified. Like in an instruction manual, textbook, or something like that. Then "they" (referring to the nebulous powers that be) started the "he/she" equality practice, and that evolved into "they" for a singular gender unknown person. But is TERRIBLE in actual use, very ambiguous and confusing. Redefining "it" to include this very tiny group of people would have been a far more elegant solution, at least in terms of not getting the language freaks up in arms :p
 

Calico345

Gold Member
Seems to be even worse than just that, changing articles and making certain sentences hard to comprehend at first glance. Don't know if you're familiar with portuguese, but here's an image that someone posted on a brazillian gaming subreddit:

do-dragon-age-veilguard-ser%C3%A1-que-essa-linguagem-ser%C3%A1-v0-cvs1m7uysrxd1.png

I know several people at work who speak Portuguese, and also Brazilian dialect. I find this interesting. How does the gender and pronoun stuff change the language in those cases? It is so funny to me that it is okay to butcher and mangle an entire countries and cultures' language just to suit a minority of purple people in a shitty video game. So much for equity and inclusion!
 

kevboard

Member
Always feels to me like people are getting two distinct things confused in this discussion: sex and gender.
It always seems like the extremes on both ends either deliberately want them to be the same thing or are being too obtuse to grasp the fact that they can be separate things. It's exhausting.

yeah, but these things have been used literally interchangeably for ages, up until a few years ago.
many languages don't even have multiple words and now have to literally adapt the English term "gender" to refer to this absolute nonsensical concept.


Gender is a societal construct with no basis in biology. Therefore it's got a lot more wiggle room.

and this is why it is meaningless and entirely based on stereotypes, which anyone that supports this non-binary nonsense would in return need to reinforce for their "identity" to make even the smallest amount of sense.

if you do not reinforce stereotypes about men and women, you also can not claim to be non-binary, as there wouldn't be a binary if stereotypes weren't reinforced.

the solution therefore should be to not reinforce stereotypes instead of thinking that you're special because you got a dick but like Barbie dolls...
 
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I told you, I'm talking about how everyday humans communicate with each other, where social decorum is important. This is linguistics not biology. Choosing "they" rather than "it" for a singular personal pronoun isn't denying science, don't be ridiculous.


Using they/them for singular is plain stupid, besides a communication atrocity.

Language, like science, is efficient. Every language on this planet aims to express the most information with the least words. For that purpose, it must be precise and describe real concepts of the real world.

The reason why nobody speaks the inclusive neo-language in real-life conversations is because it goes against every language convention. When you refer to a singular female as "they" in front of others, you need further clarification on the actual identity of that person to avoid confusion.

Language is a tool. Using tools incorrectly for the sake of social virtue is a sick state of mind that should never be encouraged, let alone imposed.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
It always seems like the extremes on both ends either deliberately want them to be the same thing or are being too obtuse to grasp the fact that they can be separate things. It's exhausting.
But sex and gender ARE the same thing, and were used interchangeably FOREVER until fairly recently when trying to tease gender away from sex became trendy. But there is no real reason to do so, gender is meaningless without being inextricably tied to sex. And sex is, for virtually every human in existence, based on XX or XY chromosomes. To think of gender as some sort of psychological overlay of biological sex is just pseudoscience wankery. There are males, regardless of how they act, and there are females, regardless of how they act. Thats it. Humans, and mammals/vertebrates in general, are not a species that fluctuates in that fashion.
 

readonly

Neo Member
Gender, being a social construct, would require no body altering medical procedures to 'change'
For lack of a better explanation, they have literally whittled down being a woman to wearing a costume. (For trans women) It should be extremely insulting to women that the real struggles and issues they face are thrown to the wind for the applause given to these brave "women". Both men and women have huge weight and expectations put on their shoulders (having children for one, protection and providing for the other). You can't cosplay your way to understanding what it is to be a man or a woman.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Using they/them for singular is plain stupid, besides a communication atrocity.

Language, like science, is efficient. Every language on this planet aims to express the most information with the least words. For that purpose, it must be precise and describe real concepts of the real world.

The reason why nobody speaks the inclusive neo-language in real-life conversations is because it goes against every language convention. When you refer to a singular female as "they" in front of others, you need further clarification on the actual identity of that person to avoid confusion.

Language is a tool. Using tools incorrectly for the sake of social virtue is a sick state of mind that should never be encouraged, let alone imposed.

One day - possibly soon, possibly not - someone is going to die in an emergency situation because of this stuff. I'm not even joking. Emergency services have to be very clear about who and how many people are in danger in any given emergency.

That is really the only aspect of this entire very silly debate that worries me.
 
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Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
yeah, but these things have been used literally interchangeably for ages, up until a few years ago.
Not "a few years ago"


Though sex and gender have been used interchangeably at least as early as the fourteenth century, this usage was not common by the late 1900s.[15] Sexologist John Money pioneered the concept of a distinction between biological sex and gender identity in 1955.[16][17] However, Issac Madison Bentley had already defined gender as the "socialized obverse of sex" a decade earlier, in 1945.[18][19] As originally conceived by Money, gender and sex are analysed together as a single category including both biological and social elements, but later work by Robert Stoller separated the two, designating sex and gender as biological and cultural categories, respectively.[20][improper synthesis?] Before the work of Bentley, Money and Stoller, the word gender was only regularly used to refer to grammatical categories.[21][22][23]
 
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