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[BPoole]

"Ideally, video games [the media form in general, not on a game-by-game basis] will not exclusively have white male protagonists. Hopefully, other races and women can have equal representation alongside white male protagonists." That's what he said. He's not saying "hopefully white males will be completely out of the equation in 5-10 years." Come on, now. He's asking that white males being the dominant, one-and-only option will be a thing of the past. But hey, yeah, "muh white boys" and all that.

It's not my fault he couldn't explain his stance properly. Other people were confused by his wording as well. He then doubled downed by calling for a genocide of white males in all forms of media, which made his stance look even more like what I thought it appeared as.

This isn't a "muh white boys" scenario and I am not one to participate in the whole looking to be outraged thing.

 

[BPoole]

Double post

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Funny story, I was watching the e3 conference with someone I usually consider a friend when Horizon came up this exchange happened...

Sometimes I don't even...

WTF....

 

[TimeEffect]

I really like Horizon's protagonist design. The 'regular' look (instead of the common supermodel heroine) makes it more relatable/believable.

Agreed! Said it before, but her sympathy towards the robots was a really nice touch of believability.

Hopefully we get to see more black women

Coincidentally, isn't the Walking Dead spinoff game starring Michhone?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I guess the next question is when are we gonna get a gritty violent game with a female protagonist?

 

[sjay1994]

Looking at both Dishonored and AC, I think the option to be two characters of male and female might be the new trend for some devs. As seen in that skype convo, there are people who do not want to play as a female, so giving the option won't scare them off.

 

[sjay1994]

I guess the next question is when are we gonna get a gritty violent game with a female protagonist?

Does that count? Although its grittiness comes of as laughable. I don't know why, but even though crystal dynamics keeps saying they want Lara to be the most realized, human character in video games, she keeps coming of as fake to me.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Gotcha. Well thanks for not even attempting to veil your racism and hatred towards white people. You left nothing to the imagination

Pwahahahahaha. Okay, whether this is parody or not, it's hilarious.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Does that count? Although its grittiness comes of as laughable. I don't know why, but even though crystal dynamics keeps saying they want Lara to be the most realized, human character in video games, she keeps coming of as fake to me.

I'm talking about like Max Payne or Watch Dogs or Gears gritty. Some female anti-hero type stuff. Gears of War 3 kinda came close.

I feel like theres this notion that female characters have to be full of compassion and caring and doesn't leave room to experiment.

 

[Garlador]

I'm very impressed with the number of female leads this year. Makes me quite happy.

 

[BPoole]

I guess the next question is when are we gonna get a gritty violent game with a female protagonist?

Tomb Raider, Horizon, or Dishonored 2. Also Fallout 4 if you choose to play as a female

 

[Darkwater]

Cloud from FF7 remake.

I know I'm 36 hours late here, but...

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Tomb Raider, Horizon, or Dishonored 2. Also Fallout 4 if you choose to play as a female

Tomb Raider and Horizon don't come off as gritty to me. Dishonored 2 and Fallout 4 are pretty good examples since they will probably allow you freedom in how your character acts and behaves.

 

[crowphoenix]

So every game will need multiple playable characters to satisfy racial quotas?

Variety doesn't mean we should stop having white protagonists, it means we should have more protagonists of other races. Not less, more.

Your two points contradict. First your upset at the notion of adding people to satisfy quotas. This would require less white characters in games.
Then you rant about how the best option is to add more protagonists of race despite just saying that adding people was wrong.

 

[matrixman92]

Coincidentally, isn't the Walking Dead spinoff game starring Michhone?

yep, was just about to post that one. Sounds awesome. She is my favorite character in Walking Dead

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Does that count? Although its grittiness comes of as laughable. I don't know why, but even though crystal dynamics keeps saying they want Lara to be the most realized, human character in video games, she keeps coming of as fake to me.

Agreed, it's laughable. She's more human looking than the crazily-proportioned classic version of Lara, but she's still a supermodel with no real personality (her personality only matches whatever the plot demands of her).

I'm talking about like Max Payne or Watch Dogs or Gears gritty. Some female anti-hero type stuff. Gears of War 3 kinda came close.

I feel like theres this notion that female characters have to be full of compassion and caring and doesn't leave room to experiment.

Yeah, I'd like to see a female anti-hero too, but they'd probably just fuck it up and make her all edgy and annoying.
I haven't played Dishonored 1, but is there any chance the Dishonored 2 lady will be an anti-hero? That'd be cool.

 

[Kinyou]

I'm talking about like Max Payne or Watch Dogs or Gears gritty. Some female anti-hero type stuff. Gears of War 3 kinda came close.

I feel like theres this notion that female characters have to be full of compassion and caring and doesn't leave room to experiment.

Dishonoured 2 might fall into that category at least when you're playing for full chaos (meaning massacring your enemies). But I agree that female characters tend to be portrayed as the compassionate ones.

 

[Mr Git]

It's definitely an improvement. Particularly liked Horizon's protagonist. Her design deviated quite a lot from the usual standard female protag. I liked that.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Yeah, I'd like to see a female anti-hero too, but they'd probably just fuck it up and make her all edgy and annoying.
I haven't played Dishonored 1, but is there any chance the Dishonored 2 lady will be an anti-hero? That'd be cool.

Honestly a female character being too edgy would be a breath of fresh air for me. Cuz it's mostly males being edgy right?

There's a good chance Dishonored 2 will carry over the chaos system from the first game so Emily can be a ruthless anti-hero causing violence and destruction if you want her to.

 

[Gestault]

Apparently we can add Forza 6 to the list. Helios confirmed you can choose female drivers in the discussion thread a few minutes back.

 

[Karkador]

Agreed, it's laughable. She's more human looking than the crazily-proportioned classic version of Lara, but she's still a supermodel with no real personality (her personality only matches whatever the plot demands of her).

I found it odd that they decided to make her hang out on this frostbite-inducing mountain with nothing to cover her face. Them design priorities.

The little "behind the scenes" video of designing Lara for this game is where the "we're creating an aesthetically pleasing and lifelike doll" creepshow started to show a little more.

Even then, it felt like a step forward from the last game.

 

[mgs2master2]

Cloud from FF7 remake.

Ha lol...

 

[cerulily]

WTF....

Yeah... I don't even know how to address this with this person. Any sort of change from the market norm is needless "progressivism". Because, ofc this is all needless meddling or something. I don't even know. I'm so excited to see more AAA release heroines

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I found it odd that they decided to make her hang out on this frostbite-inducing mountain with nothing to cover her face. Them design priorities.

Hey at least she's wearing a jacket this time. xD

The little "behind the scenes" video of designing Lara for this game is where the "we're creating an aesthetically pleasing and lifelike doll" creepshow started to show a little more.

Haha that thing was such deluded BS. I refuse to believe anyone felt it was sincere. "Look at us, we're really trying to make her human! Please believe us! Pleaaase?"

 

[Steel]

Does that count? Although its grittiness comes of as laughable. I don't know why, but even though crystal dynamics keeps saying they want Lara to be the most realized, human character in video games, she keeps coming of as fake to me.

How the hell is she still conscious enough to claw around after getting a spike through her skull?

 

[Kinyou]

I found it odd that they decided to make her hang out on this frostbite-inducing mountain with nothing to cover her face. Them design priorities.

she's actually a lot more geared up then Drake ever was. In one of the trailers she's also wearing a ski mask.

 

[Dufase19089]

Did anyone mention Cammy yet?

 

[Wiktor]

Does that count? Although its grittiness comes of as laughable. I don't know why, but even though crystal dynamics keeps saying they want Lara to be the most realized, human character in video games, she keeps coming of as fake to me.

While I lked TR it did feel weird. The whole game felt extremely similiar to Far Cry 3 in tone and story. But in FC3 it quickly became obvious how much all this slauughter and violence was fucking Brody up.

Meanwhile Laura just gets through the whole nightmare scenario and killing shitload of people almost scratch-free. Felt fake.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Did anyone mention Cammy yet?

I was happy to see one of my two Street Fighter mains back. Even though it's not exactly surprising.

 

[Karkador]

she's actually a lot more geared up then Drake ever was. In one of the trailers she's also wearing a ski mask.

I'm mostly commenting on the gameplay sequence they showed at...I think it was the MS conference?

She showed up to the scene with face protection on, and then took it off for the rest of the video (with a blizzard blowing around her), presumably so we could admire her face? The GB stream also poked fun at it.

The way some people (and some developers) talk and think about female characters still comes off like they're talking about a pretty doll. Even in this thread, we're arguing about whether the Horizon star is attractive or not. The bias is fairly apparent.

 

[Kinyou]

I'm mostly commenting on the gameplay sequence they showed at...I think it was the MS conference?

She showed up to the scene with face protection on, and then took it off for the rest of the video (with a blizzard blowing around her), presumably so we could admire her face? The GB stream also poked fun at it.

The guy she was with also had no face protection. I really don't think is something that is gender related, but more about clearly showing the protagonist of the game in connection to marketing etc.

And while you're right that developers talking about a character can come off like that, I think there's also a lot of interpretation on your side going on.

 

[jmood88]

So every game will need multiple playable characters to satisfy racial quotas?

Variety doesn't mean we should stop having white protagonists, it means we should have more protagonists of other races. Not less, more.

Where is this quota thing coming from?

 

[Gestault]

She showed up to the scene with face protection on, and then took it off for the rest of the video (with a blizzard blowing around her), presumably so we could admire her face? The GB stream also poked fun at it.

The way some people (and some developers) talk and think about female characters still comes off like they're talking about a pretty doll. Even in this thread, we're arguing about whether the Horizon star is attractive or not. The bias is fairly apparent.

Characters in media are assessed superficially, male or female. Even more so for their initial introduction, and without the aid of the their role in the full content of the game/movie/etc. And the reason we play as characters, as opposed to mannequins, is because generally the player should relate to their avatar. There are valid game-design priorities for why a character's face would be showing other than lecherous intent. Assuming that's not all that's put into a character, that doesn't seem like a problem.

 

[User 73706]

It's not my fault he couldn't explain his stance properly. Other people were confused by his wording as well. He then doubled downed by calling for a genocide of white males in all forms of media, which made his stance look even more like what I thought it appeared as.

This isn't a "muh white boys" scenario and I am not one to participate in the whole looking to be outraged thing.

Coming from the dude that'll fight tooth and nail to criticize literally any joke made at the expense of white men?

the thing about most white men who are attracted to black women is that they only want to have sex with them or shorterm dating but nothing longterm.

White men going for black women longterm is a rare thing. White men just want to fill his pornhub fetishes in real life but not commit longterm with others.

Only white men do this?

--

How do other sites actually handle it? What happens to a racist blogs?

Mostly nothing? You can't censor everything that you dislike or not agree with.

Let me guess. White?

Are you serious?

--

What *is* White Culture?

meth, crocs and people watching

So much racism in this thread. Naturally, nothing is done about it since bashing White America is A-OK on NeoGaf

where?

Who is being racist?

This one for starters: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=149134616&postcount=204

And the numerous people insinuating that white people have no culture.

Are white people joking about white people racist?

Idk, is that user white? I recall the Mortal Kombat tcrew on here being non white. I could be wrong.

Even still, it's a fucked up thing to say and it's annoying how much it's tolerated in here considering how trigger happy the mods are when the target is not a white person

Maybe he will tell you if he was joking or not. But why not just engage with those who are actually engaging in discussions and learning from them. It's hardly like you are being oppressed in here.

I don't care if he was joking or not. He shouldn't say it.

I'm white, can I go shit up a thread with racists remarks about black people and then say "Lulz JK guys?" No, because I would banned within 5 minutes.

--

Bonus:

I'm tired of SJW stuff being discussed everywhere, all the time, no matter what the original subject was. Everything has to turn into a sjw discussion. Everything.

Yep, this is close to the top of my list. Some of my opinions on matters are not accepted amongst the SJWs and rather than be called a bigot/homophobe/racist/misogynist/etc, I just stay out of the discussion since there is no discussion to be had. Threads just turn into echo chambers and anyone with conflicting opinions get either banned or lambasted.

 

[silvermember]

Yeah... I don't even know how to address this with this person. Any sort of change from the market norm is needless "progressivism". Because, ofc this is all needless meddling or something. I don't even know. I'm so excited to see more AAA release heroines

WE all know anything that beneficial to the straight white male is perfectly normal, but when you add women and children it is because of progressive and anita forcing directors and CEO.

People like lack empathy. It is just so sad.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

it was definitely noticeable, and it's a great thing to see. Seeing the diversity of Halo 5 was is exactly what I needed to see, and I want more of that. I'm so fucking tired of so many of the usual archetypes we get in this medium(and others, but it's getting better everywhere) and this year's E3 was a breath of fresh air in that regard.

 

[User 73706]

it was definitely noticeable, and it's a great thing to see. Seeing the diversity of Halo 5 was is exactly what I needed to see, and I want more of that. I'm so fucking tired of so many of the usual archetypes we get in this medium(and others, but it's getting better everywhere) and this year's E3 was a breath of fresh air in that regard.

I dunno man, Halo 5's cast looked a little forced to me. I want real characters, not just ones there for the sake of checking boxes.

 

[Envelope]

I dunno man, Halo 5's cast looked a little forced to me. I want real characters, not just ones there for the sake of checking boxes.

*twitches*

 

[NumberTwo]

As I and others have asked time and time again: why does any character who isn't a white male need this level of justification? Why do you and others who complain about non-white and non-male characters being "forced" question all the times there's a white male as the protagonist? How do you determine when a character is forced into a game?

Don't you just love it that People of Color and Women must continually have their existence or inclusion justified in a world full of dragons/wizards/killer robots/aliens/zombies? It never occurs to them to have to justify a white male in any given game.

Do they realize that PoC and Women have been playing mostly as White males for as long as gaming has existed? (mostly because we had no choice)

 

[Ragnorok64]

GAF can rest easy. Chun-li's hilarious jiggle physics...

https://twitter.com/KyleOrl/status/610982634286530560/video/1

Actually were a glitch
http://kotaku.com/street-fighters-ridiculous-new-breasts-are-a-glitch-ca-1711977157

 

[QuickSilverD]

Yeah... I don't even know how to address this with this person. Any sort of change from the market norm is needless "progressivism". Because, ofc this is all needless meddling or something. I don't even know. I'm so excited to see more AAA release heroines

you could try explaining to him that Horizon has been in development for 4 and a half years and thus this is probably the creators original vision (Horizon will be a story heavy action RPG)

 

[Tigress]

Coincidentally, isn't the Walking Dead spinoff game starring Michhone?

That would honestly rock. Michonne is one of the only well written characters on that show and she rocks hard!

So what game is this? I"m taking it it's not Tale Tell, and I'm guessing it has no relation to the other Walking Dead game that I hear is absolutely horrible. They have a new one? Is there hope for this one being good (I like Tell Tales stories but I would love a survival game set in the Walking Dead world).

I feel like theres this notion that female characters have to be full of compassion and caring and doesn't leave room to experiment.

I'm so sick of this trope honestly. It's old, it's tiring, and it's insulting. Just cause I'm female doesn't mean I'm nice or sweet or have a soft spot (and if I do, it's not cause I'm female, it's cause I'm me. And guys are just as capable of the same thing). That's what I love about Tess from The Last of Us. They totally break that trope. She's not soft hearted, she's tough, and much more willing to be cold and practical than Joel.

 

[Sober]

I'm so sick of this trope honestly. It's old, it's tiring, and it's insulting. Just cause I'm female doesn't mean I'm nice or sweet or have a soft spot (and if I do, it's not cause I'm female, it's cause I'm me. And guys are just as capable of the same thing). That's what I love about Tess from The Last of Us. They totally break that trope. She's not soft hearted, she's tough, and much more willing to be cold and practical than Joel.

Not enough men are the opposite either. Then again I don't think those set of characteristics or traits is conductive to telling a story where the main protagonist has to carve/shoot through hundreds of people.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

That would honestly rock. Michonne is one of the only well written characters on that show and she rocks hard!

So what game is this? I"m taking it it's not Tale Tell, and I'm guessing it has no relation to the other Walking Dead game that I hear is absolutely horrible. They have a new one? Is there hope for this one being good (I like Tell Tales stories but I would love a survival game set in the Walking Dead world).

There are two companies working on The Walking Dead right now. Starbreeze is making their own The Walking Dead (based on the TV series and developed by the Payday team I believe)) and Telltale Games.

The Michonne one is from Telltale though. It's a 3-episode DLC that bridges the gap between season 2 and 3 of their series.

 

[Tigress]

There are two companies working on The Walking Dead right now. Starbreeze is making their own The Walking Dead (based on the TV series and developed by the Payday team I believe)) and Telltale Games.

For starbreeze, it's not the same one that was made a few years back that got horrible reviews, is it? Or related to that one? Like the description sounded good but every review said it was a badly done money grab that pretty much relied solely on the name brand.

 

[JordanN]

Sony saving us.

A playable black female character (Fat Princess Adventures).

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

For starbreeze, it's not the same one that was made a few years back that got horrible reviews, is it? Or related to that one? Like the description sounded good but every review said it was a badly done money grab that pretty much relied solely on the name brand.

No, it's not the same one. Activision and Terminal Reality (which closed it's doors two years ago) was responsible for that one.

Starbreeze's one is a whole new take and I believe it is a 4 player coop game.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I'm talking about like Max Payne or Watch Dogs or Gears gritty. Some female anti-hero type stuff. Gears of War 3 kinda came close.

I feel like theres this notion that female characters have to be full of compassion and caring and doesn't leave room to experiment.

What about BloodRayne, Castlevania, and Primal?

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Funny story, I was watching the e3 conference with someone I usually consider a friend when Horizon came up this exchange happened...

Sometimes I don't even...

Maybe they're just robo-dino-phobic.

I had a friend bitch to me about Dishonored 2 having Emily as a MC when they self-admittedly never played Dishonored is in the first place. I think a lot of the time it's a dumb kneejerk reaction to 'pandering' without really being clued into anything else about the game or if it's a series its history. Even dumber when it's a new IP like Horizon starting on a blank slate, and I figured stuff like Hunger Games would've made these sort of survivalist women characters more mainstream anyhow.

Applause at Fallout 4 having playable girls when I thought the franchise already did in previous entries seemed a tad contrived to me though.

 

[HassanJamal]

Applause at Fallout 4 having playable girls when I thought the franchise already did in previous entries seemed a tad contrived to me though.

I think that was a reaction from most of us reading that reddit leak saying there wouldn't be female playable characters until you finished the game once. It was a relief to finally dispel that weird rumor.

I guess the next question is when are we gonna get a gritty violent game with a female protagonist?

Seems like Senua from hell blade is one of them and Emily from D2 kinda counts, seeing as we can possibly go high chaos with her.