tiggerkiddo
Member
Any of the crafted tank gear any good?
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT6| Casino Royale
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It's not a rotation change per se, it's just that they want you to be able to change how elements align on the rotation so for example now fire is heavy damage, ice is mana regen stance and thunder is a dot, but you should be able to make it so thunder is heavy damage, fire is mana regen and ice is a dot.
Damn it, I meant 50. Curse you "5" for being so close to "6"!
[I've corrected my mistake. >_<]
Oh so it's just swapping one element for another, but not changing the actual rotation? That's a little less exciting.
Edit - Sorry for the double post.
I still wish there were also elemental drain / reflect spells too.
T9 is pretty challenging and can get pretty hectic at times. I'm hoping I can get it down within the next week.I honestly thought the golems were gonna be an issue but they aren't so bad it's what comes after that gets a bit confusing.
On a side note I got a nice spriggan cap tonight.
On a side note I got a nice spriggan cap tonight.
Imagine Wagons
Member
Um. any GAF weddings coming up I can get an invite to?
It's okay, they don't have feelings.
current blm rotation
planned blm rotation
can someone with better understanding of japanese explain what the last line of 2nd and 3rd picture says? "if you equip ice/thunder staff the ??? of magic will automatically change"
so it seems that these changes were proposed by matsuno, and yoshida wasn't too keen with this
best be ignored then
tiggerkiddo
Member
I'm a tad confused who is getting married to who...well aside from the obvious.
I'm interested in giving this game a try, just wondering if theres endgame content not focused on difficult raids where everyone needs to communicate through microphones and stuff like that. Not really my thing.
I dont mind the usual group/party otherwise. Just not big on raids. Hope I won't run into a lack of content otherwise.
I dont mind the usual group/party otherwise. Just not big on raids. Hope I won't run into a lack of content otherwise.
Where do you think the spriggan hats come from?
personal housing i guess?
tiggerkiddo
Member
Just Crystal/Syrcus Tower, the 24 man raids. Some of the earlier turns of Coil are pretty simple since they got nerfed.
Honestly endgame is kind of lacking at the moment. If you don't do the difficult raid, there's really not much else battle class-wise. There's Crystal Tower (casual 24-man raids) and a bunch of arena-style boss fights against Primals. You can also replay the older raids that have been nerfed or tweaked to allow for easier clears. There's stuff to do for sure but is also dependent on how much you can stretch it out I guess?
As for microphones, you should be fine being mic-less if your group is cool with it even in the difficult raids.
I'd still recommend giving the game a shot though.
I'm going to show up to one of these weddings and when it comes time to pull shapes for the group photo I'm going to be standing, arms crossed, in my full dragoon get up.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
Plenty to do. Whether or not it's your cup of tea is a whole other thing though. Crafting, personal housing, hunts, sightseeing log, pvp, 24-man raids, 4-man dungeons, Hildebrandt and mog mail quests, and alt jobs off the top of my head.
For what it's worth, there's a good chance it's not really going to happen.
Edit:
Yeah, this basically.
WeaponKnight
Member
Elemental resistances = Multiple gear sets.
A BLM in FF11 had a minimum of 6 gear sets for all their elemental staves.
As a tank in FF11, I had something like 10+ gear sets that I would switch to and from for every action. Some of that was for elemental resistances (well I think one or two, most were actually for damage dealing vs damage taking vs haste vs enmity generation vs action buffs). Made me blink like a christmas tree.
A BLM in FF11 had a minimum of 6 gear sets for all their elemental staves.
As a tank in FF11, I had something like 10+ gear sets that I would switch to and from for every action. Some of that was for elemental resistances (well I think one or two, most were actually for damage dealing vs damage taking vs haste vs enmity generation vs action buffs). Made me blink like a christmas tree.
Won't you just end up with one build and one rotation per fight still, you will just have to change it between? It's not like it opens up some new degree of customization, you will have the same thing for every specific fight.
Elemental resist/attacks sound cool thematically but it's just a massive hassle and pain in the ass in practice. It is not ever actually fun. See Tabris' post. Do people really want to deal with that shit.
It's the hardcore vs casual aspect. For you to be optimal, heck, just effective in FF11, you had to macro everything with complex gear sets. Every single one of my actions was a macro and those macros were like 10+ lines.
I like this game casual. Only thing difficult about it (except for that shitty Novus light grind) is learning mechanics, party co-ordination, and reacting to shit on the screen. And you really only get that in the end game raiding which 80% of the population doesn't participate in.
I like this game casual. Only thing difficult about it (except for that shitty Novus light grind) is learning mechanics, party co-ordination, and reacting to shit on the screen. And you really only get that in the end game raiding which 80% of the population doesn't participate in.
Well that's the thing, mechanics in this game don't come from regular gameplay systems, they're artificially imposed over those. Instead of "do what you normally do but really good" it's "do what you normally do while we distract you with dances".
To a certain degree. I think FCOB is better about this than SCOB was while elemental drakes are the epitome of this design approach (and I've never seen anybody who likes those).
To a certain degree. I think FCOB is better about this than SCOB was while elemental drakes are the epitome of this design approach (and I've never seen anybody who likes those).
Yeah, but then the game becomes hardcore.
You add things like timing of actions (not just order), timing between party members of actions (combos / skill chains), DPS needing to control enmity (this only happens in this game when the tank sucks), tanks not knowing enmity (no enmity meters), tanks needing to leverage other people's enmity (i.e. PLD's used to cure bomb DPS on highest enmity to increase their enmity more), tanks having to do things like kiting and balancing when to do enmity generation vs moving (without enmity meters as explained above, so having to keep track in your mind / intuition), healers having to balance cure bombing, mages having to rest in the middle of the fight to regen mp (when do you do that?), using all actions without knowing timers on those actions (i.e. having to queue in your mind), buffing party members without knowing when the previous buff is going to fall off (i.e. having to keep track in your mind), pre-casting a buff while another buff is about to wear based on the mob taking it (shadows in FF11), etc.
FF11 had so many things to mentally track and execute on to be effective at your job. That all sounds attractive and exciting. It makes it a harder game for sure and differentiates skill even more than the current game. But by that, it also makes the game very unwelcoming to new players. It would be shocking to the WoW crowd. It also makes the game very elitist from that skill level difference. It makes it a hardcore game instead of casual.
You add things like timing of actions (not just order), timing between party members of actions (combos / skill chains), DPS needing to control enmity (this only happens in this game when the tank sucks), tanks not knowing enmity (no enmity meters), tanks needing to leverage other people's enmity (i.e. PLD's used to cure bomb DPS on highest enmity to increase their enmity more), tanks having to do things like kiting and balancing when to do enmity generation vs moving (without enmity meters as explained above, so having to keep track in your mind / intuition), healers having to balance cure bombing, mages having to rest in the middle of the fight to regen mp (when do you do that?), using all actions without knowing timers on those actions (i.e. having to queue in your mind), buffing party members without knowing when the previous buff is going to fall off (i.e. having to keep track in your mind), pre-casting a buff while another buff is about to wear based on the mob taking it (shadows in FF11), etc.
FF11 had so many things to mentally track and execute on to be effective at your job. That all sounds attractive and exciting. It makes it a harder game for sure and differentiates skill even more than the current game. But by that, it also makes the game very unwelcoming to new players. It would be shocking to the WoW crowd. It also makes the game very elitist from that skill level difference. It makes it a hardcore game instead of casual.
Thinking about it a bit more, FF11 was about attrition (can you do more damage than done to you in time to win) vs pattern recognition and memorization (can you survive long enough to win). Sure, some of the fights in FF14 have a bit of attrition via DPS checks and healer checks, but no where close.
It meant the game couldn't be won by just constant trial and error that FF14 has. There were multiple fights that people just couldn't win at all. Most of the crowd couldn't clear anything end game. Heck, more than 50% couldn't even beat the story in the expansion (something called Chains of Promathia) due to the attrition difficulty. We're talking about the story, not some end game raid.
EDIT - Even exping to the level cap was about attrition. How much damage you can do and take before needing to rest, and most parties out there had to rest quite a bit so it took forever to get to the level cap.
EDIT 2 - Thinking back on it even more, PLD was definitely a lot funner to play in FF11. It was actually challenging. Timing your shadows, mentally tracking enmity and buffs, intuition on when to cure bomb, etc. There is nothing challenging about playing the job in FF14, the challenge is just in the encounter. But I still wouldn't want to go back to FF11 play style, because I just don't have the time to invest anymore.
It meant the game couldn't be won by just constant trial and error that FF14 has. There were multiple fights that people just couldn't win at all. Most of the crowd couldn't clear anything end game. Heck, more than 50% couldn't even beat the story in the expansion (something called Chains of Promathia) due to the attrition difficulty. We're talking about the story, not some end game raid.
EDIT - Even exping to the level cap was about attrition. How much damage you can do and take before needing to rest, and most parties out there had to rest quite a bit so it took forever to get to the level cap.
EDIT 2 - Thinking back on it even more, PLD was definitely a lot funner to play in FF11. It was actually challenging. Timing your shadows, mentally tracking enmity and buffs, intuition on when to cure bomb, etc. There is nothing challenging about playing the job in FF14, the challenge is just in the encounter. But I still wouldn't want to go back to FF11 play style, because I just don't have the time to invest anymore.
Around what times are you on? There's still a few weddings in the queue for Ultros. If you want to know who and when, there's a thread at guildworks with the couples and their weddings.
Depends on what you find fun I guess. There is Raids along with dungeons including dungeon roulette (random dungeon to run where you get tomestones that can be exchanged for gear) and trials (fights against Ifrit, Garuda, Shiva, etc. HM and EX) and of course every major patch has story content if you're into the story. (that's endgame enough since you need to be level 50 to do them
)There is also crafting, housing, gathering, the golden saucer is coming which will bring lots of mini-games like chocobo raising/racing and triple triad. You could also participate in hints (5 daily hunts and 1 weekly hunt) + watching out for S rank monsters which can provide something to exchange for sands/oils of time (which can be used to change the current sol gear into higher level versions) which you can also get from Syrcus Tower (aka Crystal Tower 2, the second of the CT raids with the final CT raid coming in 2.5) and no, you don't need much communication or coordination to run CT raids. You just need a brain and use common sense (attack adds, follow mechanics once you figure them out. Two things which are very hard for some people apparently even if they have all CT/ST gear on...)
That's most things I can think of.
tl;dr: Plenty of things to do but it's down to you if you find it fun or not obviously. if hard core progression raids aren't your thing, there is still plenty to do with more coming.
Boss Man
Member
Gonna agree that FF11 had a lot more "game" to it but also I could not do it today because I am an adult with a job.
The casual, shallower style of FF14 definitely has its upside. I love that I can hop on for a couple of hours at any time of the day and do basically anything I want. It's more bitesized.
The gameplay itself is also a lot more fun, which I guess should be expected after so many years. Compared to FF11, FF14 plays like Bayonetta. Even crafting is sorta fun.
But then you come back and realize that crafting in FF11 was a lot more worthwhile.
Ironically, I feel the FFXI community was more welcoming and less elitist than the FFXIV one. A lot of people were willing to help and the game didn't give you "100 Sold bonus" (heck, often you ended up losing time/gil! The trips to the Shadowlord's castle for Rank mission certainly weren't a walk in the park) There was no "every man for himself" mentality because one person couldn't do anything in Vana.
If you were new to some content np, you could still run Dynamis even if you were a PLD/BLM who just hit level 75 and had 0 exp. Even CoP could be cleared with a bunch of noobs new to the fight (I myself did quite a lot of Promy/7.5/Diabolos/Alexander fights for random strangers shouting in Whitegate) by just explaining the fight to them.
Try to get into coil now as a new level 50 with zero exp...
Yeah, there were instanced when "sorry, you can't come to this content, we need 15 BLM to 1HKO everything", but it was the minority.
Tarutanto, based on your commentary, I don't think you were exposed to the FF11 elitism. I assume you weren't in an HNM linkshell, or maybe you were on a friendly server? FF11's elitism was off the charts. Actually ignoring just the HNM part of it. Think about levelling? Think about not being a NIN, BRD, MNK, or BLM? (or SMN for those parties)? Do you remember what it was like for DRG?
And yeah, that's exactly it Fancy. I just wouldn't have time for FF14 to be as complex as FF11.
And yeah, that's exactly it Fancy. I just wouldn't have time for FF14 to be as complex as FF11.
I was a BLM during the Aht Urhgan expansion lol...
I guess that could consider elitism? But frantically, it really didn't bother me that much. Now we got FFXIV were people rage at new players during story missions for watching CS even with the 100 soldiery bonus... I can't recall experiencing anything similar in FFXI.
I guess that could consider elitism? But frantically, it really didn't bother me that much. Now we got FFXIV were people rage at new players during story missions for watching CS even with the 100 soldiery bonus... I can't recall experiencing anything similar in FFXI.
That's because those type of players weren't forced into playing old content or playing with strangers for bonuses. They didn't need to play with them.
Those people were doing things like freaking out on each other and using MPK tactics in dragon's aery. Then they were rejecting applications from people with no experience. And ensuring no smaller linkshell with non experienced players was allowed to take an HNM.
Thus the same elitism you talk about with people not being able to go into coil with no experience was also there in FF11, you may just have not been exposed due to the "not needing to run old content" dynamic of FF11.
Also the equivalent of Coil in FF11 was Salvage, and that was definitely full of elitism. Salvage groups were extremely picky. I ran my own and kicked a decent amount of people for sucking in FF11. If you think I'm elitist now, you should have seen me in FF11 days.
I would do things like kick people from exp parties for not being the right job or wearing the best equipment. I would tell people how to play their jobs correctly. And that was just normal behaviour in that game for a lot of people. That game taught me how to be an elitist lol. But I'm pretty casual now in comparison.
Those people were doing things like freaking out on each other and using MPK tactics in dragon's aery. Then they were rejecting applications from people with no experience. And ensuring no smaller linkshell with non experienced players was allowed to take an HNM.
Thus the same elitism you talk about with people not being able to go into coil with no experience was also there in FF11, you may just have not been exposed due to the "not needing to run old content" dynamic of FF11.
Also the equivalent of Coil in FF11 was Salvage, and that was definitely full of elitism. Salvage groups were extremely picky. I ran my own and kicked a decent amount of people for sucking in FF11. If you think I'm elitist now, you should have seen me in FF11 days.
I would do things like kick people from exp parties for not being the right job or wearing the best equipment. I would tell people how to play their jobs correctly. And that was just normal behaviour in that game for a lot of people. That game taught me how to be an elitist lol. But I'm pretty casual now in comparison.
retrogamer84
Member
Seems like I am in the minority, but I don't really like the idea of a more difficult BLM rotation or elemental resistances mattering. I really like how simple and easy to remember the rotation is right now, but oh well. On a different note, what ilvl would you recommend that I be at before I consider doing Garuda EX? It is the next primal on my list, but I am not so sure if I will be able to really handle the extreme primals or not.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something here because I haven't read much, the proposed changes wouldn't actually change our rotation. Seems like all we would do is whip out a different staff for different fights and maintain the same style of rotation (Main Spell -> Regen -> Dot -> Main Spell).
Doesn't really add anything interesting if that is the case.
retrogamer84
Member
Well if that is the case, never mind. Though on a related note, they certainly need to expand the armory chest and inventory space in the expansion.
Does anybody actually use Sleep and Freeze for anything (outside of low level dungeons)?
Nope, and I mean it's obviously incomplete on the FF14 side. You have raging strikes, swift cast, the element swap move, quelling strikes (if you're not asami), etc. It's just to give an example on the depth difference.
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