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[Khrno]

Hi guys, I've been out of the game since the release of 2.2 due to changing jobs and continents, I was in Europe before, now I'm South America. Because of all that I didn't have the time to play or more so to invest on learning the Second Coil and thus I decided it was best to quit my old raid group so they could get someone with the time to do it. It was a shame since we were quite good at Twintania too.

Anyway, I'm thinking on re-subbing again due to Heavensward hype mainly, but I would like to move servers since Ragnarok was EU centric and now that wouldn't work for me (being on Eastern Time), would the GAF server be a good place to join for someone that left when his 3 main jobs were iLevel 90? I don't even know if it's possible to transfer now from the legacy servers to the -new- servers.

Also, is it a quick transition from 2.1 content to 2.4? Or is the grind still too high going through all the 2.2 - 2.3 content first? That wouldn't really put me off since I

Spoiler

'm a masochist and

like grinding, but I just want to know where I stand in regards to the 2.4 content. Thanks in advance.

 

[Boss Man]

Here is the difference between FF11 BLM and FF14 BLM:

I would like something a little more interesting for FF14. Not even in the middle, just a bit to play with.

The game isn't going to get any more complicated though. They've purposefully avoided complexity so that they don't have to deal with balance issues. That's the design in everything from the game's economy to dungeons to job abilities.

At least it's refined and fun to play (so far) though. I'm actually leveling a craft because it's fun and looks neat, not grinding it out because of some emergent economic stuff like a LS cornered the market on a thing and the price on some loosely related other thing has skyrocketed in response.

Both types of games are fun in their own ways but the latter feels more like a job at times and I don't want to get involved with that right now.

 

[Valor]

Does anybody actually use Sleep and Freeze for anything (outside of low level dungeons)?

I fixed that for you. Answer is no.

On the issue of complexity, there has to be some sort of middle ground between super crazy complicated and press any button to win, which are two extremes people are talking about that surely don't exist.

Adding another layer of "complexity" isn't a bad thing if they were to implement it. It would be kind of nice if there was a little bit of a skill gap, since it's basically nonexistent, regardless of whatever counter arguments will follow. An elemental system doesn't have to be difficult or annoying and can lead to an interesting class like Geomancer or even a Red Mage type class that play off of said elemental system, either exposing weaknesses to exploit or strengthening defenses/offenses of said types.

It's not like something like this would instantly turn it into a hardcore game. It would just add something new to the table to distract from our choreographed boss fights.

 

[scy]

It would be kind of nice if there was a little bit of a skill gap, since it's basically nonexistent, regardless of whatever counter arguments will follow.

I've seen enough 200, 300, 400, 450+ DPS BLMs (or any class, really) all in roughly the same gear that I'd have to say there's at least some execution skill gaps. But, yeah, I agree.

If you were new to some content np, you could still run Dynamis even if you were a PLD/BLM who just hit level 75 and had 0 exp. Even CoP could be cleared with a bunch of noobs new to the fight (I myself did quite a lot of Promy/7.5/Diabolos/Alexander fights for random strangers shouting in Whitegate) by just explaining the fight to them.

Try to get into coil now as a new level 50 with zero exp...

I mean, a lot of these bosses in older games were glorified tank and spanks with gear checks. Things for MMOs in general have gotten worse on the knowledge front thanks to WoW and other online games but, really, most of it just comes down to the design change on bosses.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

The way they're suggesting to implement it though is terrible and wouldn't add anything besides unnecessary hassle. You apparently change your weapon to change your affinity(or maybe it's a buff not sure), and then you do the exact same rotation, only with different spells as the spam, regen and dot(and I assume procs also change). Going from fire 1 spam > blizzard 3 > lightning 2 > fire 3 > fire 1 spam to blizzard 1 spam > lightning 3 > fire 2 > blizzard 3 > blizzard 1 spam doesn't change anything other than having to change your spellbar(though if the change is buff based maybe the spells just change in your hotbar on their own). You're doing exactly the same thing, with different graphics.

BLM could easily get a few additions to make the rotation more complex, and in general I'd say it's interesting enough compared to other classes, you don't have to keep track of dots and such and mostly only play with your mana bar, but the forced movements in fights often break the flow so you have to restart from a different point, and always consider when you can weave in Flare. It's a proc based class, really the main thing you need to keep track of is when stuff procs so you can use the corresponding skill asap and not waste another proc.

 

[Bomber Bob]

lol people continuously trying to compare XI and XIV.

They are different games (XI is a EQ clone while XIV is a modern WoW clone).

XIV is not a XI direct evolution

 

[Taruranto]

Olgoi-Khorkhoi DOESN'T EXIT.

DO NOT BELIEVE YOSHIDA LIES.

Hi guys, I've been out of the game since the release of 2.2 due to changing jobs and continents, I was in Europe before, now I'm South America. Because of all that I didn't have the time to play or more so to invest on learning the Second Coil and thus I decided it was best to quit my old raid group so they could get someone with the time to do it. It was a shame since we were quite good at Twintania too.

Anyway, I'm thinking on re-subbing again due to Heavensward hype mainly, but I would like to move servers since Ragnarok was EU centric and now that wouldn't work for me (being on Eastern Time), would the GAF server be a good place to join for someone that left when his 3 main jobs were iLevel 90? I don't even know if it's possible to transfer now from the legacy servers to the -new- servers.

Also, is it a quick transition from 2.1 content to 2.4? Or is the grind still too high going through all the 2.2 - 2.3 content first? That wouldn't really put me off since I

Spoiler

'm a masochist and

like grinding, but I just want to know where I stand in regards to the 2.4 content. Thanks in advance.

I'm still playing the game (Archs Crysta, in case you don't remember), if you have questions about the new patch and need help send me a /tell in-game. :3

 

[iammeiam]

Olgoi-Khorkhoi DOESN'T EXIT.

DO NOT BELIEVE YOSHIDA LIES.

"I only need three fish? And they don't even have to be HQ? This is going to be easy!"

But then caravan eels.

 

[studyguy]

Why did I buy this gold if I wasn't going to marry anyone...

 

[Tabris]

lol people continuously trying to compare XI and XIV.

They are different games (XI is a EQ clone while XIV is a modern WoW clone).

XIV is not a XI direct evolution

It's not, the comparison is the want for a more hardcore game (like FF11) when fundamentally FF14 is a totally different game in design, which makes it casual.

I was trying to provide the pros and cons to people wanting FF14 to become more hardcore based on my experiences with a hardcore game like FF11.

 

[Sorian]

Here is the difference between FF11 BLM and FF14 BLM:

I'm well aware that you actually have no idea how BLM works so I'll just say the picture on the right makes no sense. (I'll also venture that the picture on the left took a complicated system and made it look even more complicated for the sake of the joke).

Edit: and I know you already addressed it a few posts up but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't call you out on it

 

[Boss Man]

lol people continuously trying to compare XI and XIV.

They are different games (XI is a EQ clone while XIV is a modern WoW clone).

XIV is not a XI direct evolution

They are different games with very different design goals.

Which makes them very worth comparing I think... Especially since so many people who've played either game are familiar with both.

It's just too clear of an example to compare MMOs like Ultima and EQ to modern MMOs like WoW and FFXIV. I think the best MMO would be something in between, and it's worth discussing to me.

 

[Frazley]

Got EBed this morning to Krael! Was awesome, hilarious and quick! Just like a Vegas wedding!

Video and pictures coming. I trimmed the footage a bit to make it run well.

 

[Isaccard]

Hi guys, I've been out of the game since the release of 2.2 due to changing jobs and continents, I was in Europe before, now I'm South America. Because of all that I didn't have the time to play or more so to invest on learning the Second Coil and thus I decided it was best to quit my old raid group so they could get someone with the time to do it. It was a shame since we were quite good at Twintania too.

Anyway, I'm thinking on re-subbing again due to Heavensward hype mainly, but I would like to move servers since Ragnarok was EU centric and now that wouldn't work for me (being on Eastern Time), would the GAF server be a good place to join for someone that left when his 3 main jobs were iLevel 90? I don't even know if it's possible to transfer now from the legacy servers to the -new- servers.

Also, is it a quick transition from 2.1 content to 2.4? Or is the grind still too high going through all the 2.2 - 2.3 content first? That wouldn't really put me off since I

Spoiler

'm a masochist and

like grinding, but I just want to know where I stand in regards to the 2.4 content. Thanks in advance.

Ya, come to Ultros breh, havent seen you in awhile

Why did I buy this gold if I wasn't going to marry anyone...

because no one wants to marry someone with gold, plat eb or get out

 

[MKAllDay]

All this talk about Black Mage changes and no one has mentioned the biggest issue currently plaguing the Black Mage: spells being numbered like Fire 1/2/3 instead of Fire, Fira, Firaga.

Please buff spell names.

 

[Tabris]

I'm well aware that you actually have no idea how BLM works so I'll just say the picture on the right makes no sense. (I'll also venture that the picture on the left took a complicated system and made it look even more complicated for the sake of the joke).

Nope, that was all the available skill chains to turn into magic bursts and the available spells to use to burst with them. Then you have the debuff spells up top. Plus the other moves all over the place. Plus the examples of having to learn the elemental resistances of each monster as each one had a unique resistance (so had to be constantly changing macrosets and gear sets accordingly).

While I know except for when you proc, you have raging strikes or swift cast up, need to convert or swap elements, or want to use a potion, that right side is pretty accurate

 

[Khrno]

I'm still playing the game (Archs Crysta, in case you don't remember), if you have questions about the new patch and need help send me a /tell in-game. :3

Cheers dude, but since I'm not on Euroland anymore Ragnarok hours don't work for me. I don't know how lively is the server nowadays around 3:00 am GMT, but that shit used to be dead from midnight to like 2:00 pm.

Ya, come to Ultros breh, havent seen you in awhile

Ah that's cool, will transfer then later this week and ask for a FC place so I can get my noobie ilv90 ass up to date.

 

[King_Richard]

Is anyone else constantly getting "Lost connection with server"? or "The lobby server connection has encountered an error"? I'm on Jenova and its lagging like crazy, been like thsi since last night, its not my connection AFAIK,

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Nope, that was all the available skill chains to turn into magic bursts and the available spells to use to burst with them. Then you have the debuff spells up top. Plus the other moves all over the place. Plus the examples of having to learn the elemental resistances of each monster as each one had a unique resistance (so had to be constantly changing macrosets and gear sets accordingly).

While I know except for when you proc, you have raging strikes or swift cast up, need to convert or swap elements, or want to use a potion, that right side is pretty accurate

Right picture is missing the various ranks of stuff(at the very least fire 1 and 3 and thunder 2 and 3, with blizzard 1 or thunder 1 in some weird rotations/pre cap) and Scathe+Flare, plus mana wall/apocastasis/the teleport thing/convert/transpose/swiftcast etc, all stuff that you use relatively regularily when playing a BLM.

Also as far as I remember from my FFXI days, you didn't use every spell in a given element. You generally used the strongest one you could afford mana wise without pulling aggro. You had several ranks of virtually the same spell, so instead of Fire 1 and 3(2 being functionally different), you had Fire 1-8, but you really only used like 2 4 8 or whatever, depending on your mana and the power desired. The renkeis used to be set beforehand since they relied on other people (though maybe not for blm?) and since you ended up sitting in the same spots killing the same mobs for 10-20hours in a row, element weaknesses weren't particularily the most challenging concept. Oh and you had like 20seconds between spells to find out what weakness the mobs had by asking in chat, in case of.

 

[Kagari]

Cheers dude, but since I'm not on Euroland anymore Ragnarok hours don't work for me. I don't know how lively is the server nowadays around 3:00 am GMT, but that shit used to be dead from midnight to like 2:00 pm.



Ah that's cool, will transfer then later this week and ask for a FC place so I can get my noobie ilv90 ass up to date.

Come to Ultros, we do free carries!

 

[scy]

Nope, that was all the available skill chains to turn into magic bursts and the available spells to use to burst with them. Then you have the debuff spells up top. Plus the other moves all over the place. Plus the examples of having to learn the elemental resistances of each monster as each one had a unique resistance (so had to be constantly changing macrosets and gear sets accordingly).

While I know except for when you proc, you have raging strikes or swift cast up, need to convert or swap elements, or want to use a potion, that right side is pretty accurate

Both sides are misleading. The left side has bloat since it's listing everything while the right side omits niche spells / execution things like oGCD Fire Weaving.

Honestly, XI in general for skills is more about bloat and encounter specific uses rather than dozens of independently useful skills.

 

[Jayhawk]

Come to Ultros, we do free carries!

It's last night before weekly reset, get those Kagari 2.45 Karries in. One chest better than no chest!

 

[retrogamer84]

I may have to take you up on that offer now that I am on the EX primals. I got through the HM part without much trouble, but EX appears to be a really different story.

 

[scy]

Seriously though, might as well be doing things like that. Getting more people able to clear Final Coil, even if it's one chest at a time, is better than nothing. Especially with holiday scheduling stuff.

 

[iammeiam]

Dear returning people,

Let me use you for bonus sold.

Kthx.

It's last night before weekly reset, get those Kagari 2.45 Karries in. One chest better than no chest!

Somebody carry Ty through T9 pls.

Somehow making sure this happens is now my personal responsibility and I don't like having responsibilities.

 

[Isaccard]

Come to Ultros, we do free carries!

They just want your sold bonus!

I'll take a T9 carry though

Paging Odo/Elliott and Punchi, pst me in game so I can give you (less) gil than what you're asking for on some itemz

 

[QisTopTier]

They don't have to make it so BLM has elemental staves just make it so when you get fire 1 you get ice 1 and lighting 1 at the same time.


Then make it so you just have 3 hotbars set with similar button set ups.

Now you have elemental shit again and now it's not complex.

Do I need fire nukes? Shift 1! Ice? Shift 2! and so on.


I want them to add some sort of elemental stuff because honestly it's going to make summoner egi's irrelevant as well if they don't unless they just make them all gimmicky as hell.

 

[Jayhawk]

As somebody who did play as BLM in end-game FFXI...

BLMs in FFXI were great for crowd-control (stuns, AoE sleeps). You had to manage sleep timers on multiple mobs and ensure they don't kill you off when they wake up. Groups of BLMs would time their big nuke in coordination with the melees in the group for the skillchain - magic burst combination. The nuke you used was highly dependent on the mob you were facing and the skillchain the melees were performing. There was no rotation or any sort of strict DPS check mechanics that required super optimizations for BLM. Many fights would be long enough that the BLMs could rest up for a minute to regain MP. If the group needed to meet a strict DPS check mechanic, you would switch to another class like SAM, DRK, or RNG.

BLMs in FFXIV don't have to worry about crowd-control. They actually have a rotation and several fights have DPS check mechanics. They can't be taking long breaks in fights to regain MP. Instead of timing a specific nuke for a mob with the rest of the group, you're always casting a spell or dodging a mechanic.

 

[scy]

Not like they care that much about SMN to begin with.

As somebody who did play as BLM in end-game FFXI...

BLMs in FFXI were great for crowd-control (stuns, AoE sleeps). You had to manage sleep timers on multiple mobs and ensure they don't kill you off when they wake up. Groups of BLMs would time their big nuke in coordination with the melees in the group for the skillchain - magic burst combination. The nuke you used was highly dependent on the mob you were facing and the skillchain the melees were performing.

This is probably the biggest difference, really. More individual rotations and so-on here in place of specific skill timings across multiple classes.

 

[Teknoman]

Ironically, I feel the FFXI community was more welcoming and less elitist than the FFXIV one. A lot of people were willing to help and the game didn't give you "100 Sold bonus" (heck, often you ended up losing time/gil! The trips to the Shadowlord's castle for Rank mission certainly weren't a walk in the park) There was no "every man for himself" mentality because one person couldn't do anything in Vana.

If you were new to some content np, you could still run Dynamis even if you were a PLD/BLM who just hit level 75 and had 0 exp. Even CoP could be cleared with a bunch of noobs new to the fight (I myself did quite a lot of Promy/7.5/Diabolos/Alexander fights for random strangers shouting in Whitegate) by just explaining the fight to them.

Try to get into coil now as a new level 50 with zero exp...

Yeah, there were instanced when "sorry, you can't come to this content, we need 15 BLM to 1HKO everything", but it was the minority.

See thats the difference. Taking time to explain something to people instead of just blasting in and expecting people to know everything all the time.

Maybe it was just a different time / majority generation of people playing? On that note, I dont think I ever watched a video for any fight back then...only asked people to give a quick run down if I was new, and them bam, success (after a couple of tries).

Sure there were people that flipped out, or those that didnt really carry any weight...but in the end, all it usually takes is a good explanation, a few tries, and you come out on top.

 

[QisTopTier]

Well one reason people expect you to know things is because the information is out there and super super easy to access.

and you can get into coil still as a new 50. People love free soldiery I see stuff like that in Party Finder all the time on Sargatanas

 

[studyguy]

Personally I don't believe FFXI was more welcoming out of the community being more cordial, it was simply out of necessity. You can't be a dick to absolutely everyone when you needed a full party to get anything done. No one wanted to wait for ages if you didn't have a static just because your DPS/Tank might not be ideal. I dealt with tons of terrible healers, tanks and DPS through the course of leveling prior to getting a static so I don't know how to nail it down exactly, but it was simply a different beast.

Dealing with a bad tank/healer/dps in XIV isn't anything like dealing with a bad tank/healer/dps in XI considering the amount of time committed groups then vs now.

 

[Boss Man]

See thats the difference. Taking time to explain something to people instead of just blasting in and expecting people to know everything all the time.

Maybe it was just a different time / majority generation of people playing? On that note, I dont think I ever watched a video for any fight back then...only asked people to give a quick run down if I was new, and them bam, success (after a couple of tries).

Sure there were people that flipped out, or those that didnt really carry any weight...but in the end, all it usually takes is a good explanation, a few tries, and you come out on top.

It isn't a generational thing. FFXI was simply a more social game because it required it.

I remember that being a gripe during the 2.0 beta and Yoshi's response was basically, "please be social." None of the content actually encourages you to go out exploring or making friends. Hell, can you even add the people you encounter on DF to your friends list to play with them later? The world is quiet because there's no point in building a 30 minute relationship.

 

[retrogamer84]

Dear returning people,

Let me use you for bonus sold.

Kthx.

I offered last night, but no one took me up on it. I will certainly let everyone know when I am going into a new event from now on.

 

[scy]

See thats the difference. Taking time to explain something to people instead of just blasting in and expecting people to know everything all the time.

That's primarily due to the difference in how fights themselves worked. It's fairly easy to just "explain a fight, get the win" when you're not necessarily fighting the fight itself and more just doing your role there (and/or dealing with a single point of failure gimmick or role wise). There's far more "gimmicks" in XIV encounters and many of those don't come across nearly as easily in just getting explained.

Personally I don't believe FFXI was more welcoming out of the community being more cordial, it was simply out of necessity. You can't be a dick to absolutely everyone when you needed a full party to get anything done. No one wanted to wait for ages if you didn't have a static just because your DPS/Tank might not be ideal. I dealt with tons of terrible healers, tanks and DPS through the course of leveling prior to getting a static so I don't know how to nail it down exactly, but it was simply a different beast.

Pretty much. You don't burn bridges for no reason in games like EQ, FFXI, etc. where you were limited to your server and word of mouth. It's a bit different these days with cross-server queues and just a larger playerbase in general.

 

[studyguy]

Pretty much. You don't burn bridges for no reason in games like EQ, FFXI, etc. where you were limited to your server and word of mouth. It's a bit different these days with cross-server queues and just a larger playerbase in general.

HEY GUYS THIS TANK IS SHIT, BUT HE'S LITERALLY THE ONLY GUY IN OUR LEVEL RANGE AND LEVEL SYNC DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST YET SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EAT IT AND JUST NOT PULL HATE FOR THE NEXT 2 HOURS.

 

[Teknoman]

Personally I don't believe FFXI was more welcoming out of the community being more cordial, it was simply out of necessity. You can't be a dick to absolutely everyone when you needed a full party to get anything done. No one wanted to wait for ages if you didn't have a static just because your DPS/Tank might not be ideal. I dealt with tons of terrible healers, tanks and DPS through the course of leveling prior to getting a static so I don't know how to nail it down exactly, but it was simply a different beast.

It isn't a generational thing. FFXI was simply a more social game because it required it.

I remember that being a gripe during the 2.0 beta and Yoshi's response was basically, "please be social." None of the content actually encourages you to go out exploring or making friends. Hell, can you even add the people you encounter on DF to your friends list to play with them later? The world is quiet because there's no point in building a 30 minute relationship.

Well yeah, thats definitely true. There were some people that definitely garnered bad reps over time though lol. I'm probably at fault myself though, since I found myself slowly only being social with people in GAF, hardly even trying to do random DFs or using party finder. Doesnt help that I havent been able to play in awhile either, but thats another story.


I will say I still miss having drawn out strategy conversations in LS chat or party chat, random conversations in shout or say. Longer, more drawn out battles probably have a part of that too.

EDIT: Full disclosure - I do have lots of nostalgia about XI and how you had to actually travel through dungeons with actual puzzles or death traps (pits / false floors / pressure plats / sequence activated buttons) or travel across new areas with danger. Which i'm glad that Yoshi wants to drive in that direction with Heavensward.

 

[Jayhawk]

Reputation in your server was a huge factor in FFXI. Once you're rumored to be a gil buyer/botter/asshole/bad player, good luck. Server transfers due to linkshell drama were fairly common. So much drama on LiveJournal, different FFXI forums, and other sites. There are still probably new drama threads popping to this day.

 

[iammeiam]

The biggest problem with expecting fight explanations is that it's entirely possible nobody in your group is going to know how your mechanics work or the specific timing on them. Trying to heal T9 made me realize I have no idea when half the beaks come out. I'm constantly surprised at how few people know T8 tower order, or how ballistic works, etc. People know their own little boxes. The Internet knows everything, so pre-research can teach you the relevant stuff.

I offered last night, but no one took me up on it. I will certainly let everyone know when I am going into a new event from now on.

Hardest part is usually finding tanks/healers, especially now that most of the sold rush is over. Friday is traditionally the best day for help stuff in general.

 

[Teknoman]

Yeah I'll concede to the group and watch or read up on fights, but I guess I'm a person that can only really learn by doing, same in real life. I will say I still had more fun with fresh battles, like when we went up against Yeti, and figured out his snowball weakness.

 

[Ken]

All this talk about Black Mage changes and no one has mentioned the biggest issue currently plaguing the Black Mage: spells being numbered like Fire 1/2/3 instead of Fire, Fira, Firaga.

Please buff spell names.

I think they are Fire/Fira/Firaga on EU client or something?

 

[Jayhawk]

Somebody did the math to calculate stat weights for current content.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2q2tch/job_statweight_updates/

 

[scy]

Somebody did the math to calculate stat weights for current content.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2q2tch/job_statweight_updates/

Yeah, I saw it this morning and I still haven't gotten over this:

Summoner
SS: 0.098

:lol

Spoiler

it's higher than I thought

 

[Jayhawk]

Weapon damage stat weight also getting worse and worse for casters relative to the other DPS. I wonder how this will be like post-Heavensward.

 

[Khrno]

Reputation in your server was a huge factor in FFXI

Dragon's Aery elitism and drama was the best. So many good memories about my thousand days (play-time) on FFXI.

 

[MKAllDay]

Dear returning people,

Let me use you for bonus sold.

Kthx.




Somebody carry Ty through T9 pls.

Somehow making sure this happens is now my personal responsibility and I don't like having responsibilities.

What is your in game name? I have Ramuh Ex and T7 Soldiery bonuses still. Additionally, I have Shiva and Shiva Ex coming up but I assume they do not have Soldiery bonuses considering they are the latest content.

 

[QisTopTier]

The wedding stuff will never get old to me.

 

[Ken]

I found my new fantasia/glamour.

 

[scy]

the jp onry roe dream lives on

Weapon damage stat weight also getting worse and worse for casters relative to the other DPS. I wonder how this will be like post-Heavensward.

Honestly, this is part of the reason why I keep thinking I should be prepared to go melee for the tail end of 2.X / 3.0 and why I really hoped for some mention of planned caster changes. Oh well, we'll see what happens I guess.

 

[iammeiam]

What is your in game name? I have Ramuh Ex and T7 Soldiery bonuses still. Additionally, I have Shiva and Shiva Ex coming up but I assume they do not have Soldiery bonuses considering they are the latest content.

Angary Fays--I never know if people will be bored enough to do stuff but we can always try. Ramuh can be cheesed pretty easily and 7 is really not a thing anymore. No bonus on Shiva but HM is a massive joke and I still find EX pretty fun so.

I found my new fantasia/glamour.

....

Yeah, OK, I'll allow it.