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Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
- Thread starter Ark
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brotkasten
Member
Switching back to louder V8s is not going to make the racing any better. It's just nonsensical clinging to the past and I wish people would stop with that.
That would apply to a lot of things that people are nostalgic about, but I just can't agree about engine noise.
The sound of pretty much any naturally aspirated engine before this engine formula was earth-shattering. You felt it in your body even while watching TV. It gives me goosebumps. It had a huge influence on making cars look fast and wild. I basically missed the entire V8 era and it still fills me with joy to watch videos of those cars.
One of the reasons why I can't bring myself to care about Formula E is that the cars sound like RC cars. Current F1 is somewhere in the middle.
I agree to a point. having stood about 10 yards from a V10 doing burnouts at Goodwood, the noise and feeling in your chest is kind of insane though. Like watching the Vulcan take off.
Oh, in that context is basically irrelevant. the sponsors know that, the fans know that. For some reason, green has been the push from the sponsors though.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Can't wait for him to change his tune when they get that VW/Audi engine deal.
Fox Mulder
Member
No way.
Loud cars racing is like an air show. It makes it an event you want to view in person. I love NASCAR races live for the sounds, smells, and feeling in your bones almost.
I still marveled at the Audi wec lmp cars and their philosophy of quiet engines. It sounded almost silent at speed. But then other cars sounded different. Why can't f1 find a way to allow some different engines configurations among teams.
PdotMichael
Banned
One of the most important goal for the marketing must be to return of selling F1 technology as cutting edge instead of the good old days nonsense - not realizing that Senna & Co were driving cars which wouldn't run today because of the "pure racing" idiocracy.
It seems like V8s were simpler and cheaper to make than the current engines, while being a lot louder. So I don't get why they did the switch to more complex and expensive engines in the first place, when even in the V8 era the cost of running an F1 team was a problem.
Switching back would solve a lot of the current problems we're seeing: noise, cost, and the complexity of development keeping some engine makers from entering the sport (or pushing some away like I predict Honda will end up doing). Hell, you can add some of the hybrid things they've introduced with these V6s, and make the V8s more fuel efficient too. They were already semi hybrid engines since they had ERS.
I miss the V8s cause even backmarkers like Caterham and Marussia were entertaining to watch sometimes because even they made a lot of noise.
(I know nothing of engine tech or how F1 really works so this is just my humble perspective as a fan of the sport)
Switching back would solve a lot of the current problems we're seeing: noise, cost, and the complexity of development keeping some engine makers from entering the sport (or pushing some away like I predict Honda will end up doing). Hell, you can add some of the hybrid things they've introduced with these V6s, and make the V8s more fuel efficient too. They were already semi hybrid engines since they had ERS.
I miss the V8s cause even backmarkers like Caterham and Marussia were entertaining to watch sometimes because even they made a lot of noise.
(I know nothing of engine tech or how F1 really works so this is just my humble perspective as a fan of the sport)
PdotMichael
Banned
There is no engine manufacturer who wants to go back to V8.
aspiegamer
Member
Mhmm. I'm fine with this V6 era at this point. The cars make an obscene amount of power with far less fuel than they used to, and the tech is freaking complicated/awesome. Quieting them down is something of a quality of living matter for perspective fans, too. "Purists"? They'll always be upset and always find something to complain about. But just your average person who might want to attend a race? Making it a more refined experience like any other sporting event is good for business overall.
There are still racing series around for people who want the raw muscle. F1 isn't obligated to be in that category, but you could argue by its reputation from day one that it's obligated to push the bounds of engineering. They're meant to be the fastest cars on the planet around a road course, but there are a lot of ways to get there. Turbo V6es have actual road car applications in almost any type of vehicle you can think of. Sedans, roadsters and performance cars, light trucks, commercial vehicles, all of it.
Question-- Was there anywhere near this level of fuss and complaint when LMPs started to go diesel and then hybrid? I can't say I remember. Those have violated the "fast cars gotta be the loudest!" thing for longer than F1.
I don't know the numbers but I'm not sure LMP made quite as much noise as F1. The engines have to last a whole lot longer so quite possibly didn't rev as high (F1 hit 20,000 rpm at one point) , also its the turbos that are reducing the volume. No idea what LMP has been doing with regard to those.
When the diseasles started, the drivers were reporting a high pitched whine they'd never heard before. It was simply the whine of the transmission that could be heard over the quieter engine!
F1 having to be cutting edge tech for consumer cars is something I've never understood. Most of the teams are not engine manufacturers, and the engine makers we do have, have vastly different markets to serve.
If Mercedes or Renault think they have nothing to gain from F1 if they can't push hybrid tech development, they could go and I'm sure other engine makers would be happy to make simpler/cheaper engines for the other 8 teams left.
I know Ferrari would not leave, cause who the fuck buys a Ferrari thinking of the environment or fuel savings lol
Business
Member
Honest question have you ever attended any a racing event live?
Speaking as someone who has been fortunate enough to see and hear Formula 1 with V10 and V8s as well as V6 hybrids, I totally agree with him.
The high-pitched screams of the V10s and the sheer raw volume of the V8s are incredibly impressive, but I have been to see boring, Ferrari-dominated Grands Prix and I've seen exciting, eventful and competitive races and I'd take competitive F1 with quieter V6s over dull races with louder engines any day.
Ferrari tried real hard for 4 years while Red Bull won 4 years in a row, but some of those years were really close, all the while ALL cars were loud and fun as fuck.
Did you miss the past 3 years of boring Merc dominance or something? Red Bull never dominated like this in the V8s btw...
It seems you think that now we finally have some competition with Mercedes and Ferarri, it's the first time ever this has happened...
Frankfurter
Member
People just need to let go. V8 or V10 won't come back.
MightBeMagic
Member
Its not the sponsors, it's the engine manufacturers. Mercedes and Honda would not be in F1 without hybrid technology, its as simple as that.
Road cars are going in that direction and I think its amazing we can get 1000hp from an engine with a smaller capacity than my road car, plus the hybrid component. Regeneration from braking is also exactly relatable to road technology.
I could give a toss how loud the cars are. I've been to a race and i didnt like how loud the GP2 cars were but the F1 was fine. Its the action on track i care about.
Correct. None of the manufacturers want it.
What we'll get is something more simple but still turbo charged and with a significant hybrid element. Think the Porsche WEC twin turbo V4 with front axle KERS and no MGU-H.
PdotMichael
Banned
I'm not arguiung in favor of bringing V8 engines back.
Anything else than going full hybrid is nonsense.
This.
I think a twin-turbo V6 with a simple ERS system (w/ deployment) is more likely, though.
I can also see active aero and suspension forming part of the post-2020 conversation but that's another thing entirely.
Big Takeover
Member
Even though we don't hear from them much in public, I think the strongest supporters of more noise are track promoters. Grand Prix tickets are very expensive, and the people that sell them know that "wow factor" is very important to their business.
If we're just debating if noise makes for a better TV show, we can still do that, but it doesn't really matter. I think the needs of the TV viewer and the attending customer aren't always the same.
Anybody who's been to the track can tell you that race cars sound a lot better in person. In fact, that's probably one of the first things mentioned in conversation. Especially so if they aren't the hardest of the hardcore race fans.
It is important.
If we're just debating if noise makes for a better TV show, we can still do that, but it doesn't really matter. I think the needs of the TV viewer and the attending customer aren't always the same.
Anybody who's been to the track can tell you that race cars sound a lot better in person. In fact, that's probably one of the first things mentioned in conversation. Especially so if they aren't the hardest of the hardcore race fans.
It is important.
MontyBrown
Banned
I went to Silverstone in 2013. The cars looked fast but it was the raw sound that really amazed me.
You're missing my point.
I'm not saying that the V6 era has been more exciting. I'm saying that competition and excitement is what matters, not how loud the engines are.
Nope. I've not been to a Grand Prix since they switched, and I'm certainly not going to one with the cars sounding the way they do now. It'd be too much of a gut punch.
fu3lfr3nzy
Member
They won 4 years in a row and they think they're F1 royalty now :lol
Yeah, Marko/Horner can get fucked and leave the sport for all I care. Poor Danny and Max though
I dont understand why they have so much stroke like the current regs based on their requests. They havent won championships the last 3-4 years so who gives a shit what they have to say?
This is up there with some of the stupidest things I've ever read.
Trust me when I say they sound much better in person than the vacuum cleaners you hear on TV. As I've said, I've also been to GP's with V8s and V10s. I really don't understand how someone can be so invested in the sound/volume of the cars to the point where it will stop you going to a race if you had that opportunity.
NeoGAF indeed.
They won 4 years in a row and they think they're F1 royalty now :lol
Yeah, Marko/Horner can get fucked and leave the sport for all I care. Poor Danny and Max though
I dont understand why they have so much stroke like the current regs based on their requests. They havent won championships the last 3-4 years so who gives a shit what they have to say?
They are fielding 2 teams.
And bring a lot of PR for F1.
I remember they even had Vettel themed red bull cans back in the day
They won 4 years in a row and they think they're F1 royalty now :lol
Yeah, Marko/Horner can get fucked and leave the sport for all I care. Poor Danny and Max though
I dont understand why they have so much stroke like the current regs based on their requests. They havent won championships the last 3-4 years so who gives a shit what they have to say?
So only Mercedes can say something about the regulations?
Mercedes/Ilmoor have been making F1 engines for really quite some time. I don't think there was any indication they planned on pulling out if they didn't get their own way (a la Ferrari and Red Bull)
Bear in mind that at one point the regs were going to be an I4 to try and get VW to play as well as other manufacturers, in the end they pulled out as they didn't want to have anything to do with Bernie, and we went back to a V6 and the only new runner was Hondalol.
Jezbollah
Member
Admittedly VW's pulling out was less to do with Bernie or the regulations and more to do with the fact that they nearly went out of business and the executive who wanted VW in F1 was forced to resign...
VW were toying with joining and were being woo'd by F1 while Ferdinand Piech (Grandson of Ferdinand Porsche) was the chairman. He quit in April 2015 after leadership battle with Winterkorn which saw how own cousin Wolfgang Porsche vote against him. Apparently Piech didn't like Bernie on both a personal and a professional level.
Winterkorn then took over and was highly in favour of getting the group in to F1, but then resigned in just September 2015 after the emissions scandal.
F1 had been looking at a 1.6 Inline 4 Turbo between like 2009 and 2011 and VW had expressed a mild interest in that direction. Ferrari didn't want I4 engines as they were never going to use an inline 4 in a production car, Mercedes also felt something V shaped might be better.
In June 2011 the decision was taken not to introduce 1.6 I4T engines for the 2013 season, and instead 1.6 V6T engines would come in for 2014. This was in part after VW said they wanted nothing to do with the sport at that time. Long before VW got into a little bit of trouble.
I just started giggling, I don't care what the conversation is the sound of those engines makes everything better.
No F1 this week. But Blancpain GT Series Endurance Cup at Monza is starting now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JLLi740MM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JLLi740MM
marvelharvey
Member
That start.
So scary when you see the car spin into traffic again.
definitely.. i just love the V10s.
Absolutely incredible situation in the Blancpain GT endurance race...
The #7 Bentley:
- caused a massive start crash
- got a 15-second stop-go penalty
- didn't serve it after three laps
- Bentley argued that the #7 was 'hit from behind' and ask Stewards to be lenient
- Stewards are like 'fuck no, serve your penalty now'
- #7 Bentley doesn't pit
- Stewards immediately disqualify the #7 car on the spot
- #7 Bentley pulls into the pits... but drives through and exits back out on the track and keeps racing
- Stewards keep calling the Bentley back in like 'WTF are you doing'
- Five laps later, the #7 Bentley finally pulls into the pits and stops
- caused a massive start crash
- got a 15-second stop-go penalty
- didn't serve it after three laps
- Bentley argued that the #7 was 'hit from behind' and ask Stewards to be lenient
- Stewards are like 'fuck no, serve your penalty now'
- #7 Bentley doesn't pit
- Stewards immediately disqualify the #7 car on the spot
- #7 Bentley pulls into the pits... but drives through and exits back out on the track and keeps racing
- Stewards keep calling the Bentley back in like 'WTF are you doing'
- Five laps later, the #7 Bentley finally pulls into the pits and stops
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Lol wow.....
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
IndyCar visits the first road course of the season at Barber Motorsports Park today. Alonso is hanging around the paddock to get to know his Andretti crew for the Indy 500.
The NBCSN broadcast starts in 4 hours at 3pm ET. If you're in the UK I think you can watch it on BT Sport.
The NBCSN broadcast starts in 4 hours at 3pm ET. If you're in the UK I think you can watch it on BT Sport.
Nice, what time does the race itself start?
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
I actually got my time conversions wrong, the broadcast starts at 3pm ET and the actual start of the race should be around 3:30pm ET.
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