CaviarMeths
Member
Oh, him. Thought his name was Robb. Thanks.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
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Oh, him. Thought his name was Robb. Thanks.
Receipts? She proposes flying to the Red Keep, she never said she'd burn King's Landing to the ground.
And I should add, burning her enemies in their castle is a direct parallel to what Aegon did to Harren the Black at Harrenhal.
Again, Daenerys = Aegon. Not Aerys.
GIANKRATOS
Member
Great episode.
RichiRamjag
Member
Being brash or making a bad decision once in a while is a far cry from madness in either case. I see what you're getting at, but we're hardly at that point.
The Artisan
Member
Why do you say that?
DarkJediKnight
Member
The Rickon, Dickon part had me rolling. His reaction to Bronn laughing made the scene.
Robdraggoo
Member
No not that brother that took a bunch of arrows, the other one.
He was already the Mad King long before the rebellion. Watch any of the numerous GoT HBO lore vids on him.
Because Dany wanting to have slavers killed, wanting to take on Cersei directly after losing all her allies, and then fighting the Lannister armies has nothing at all to do with madness.
The Artisan
Member
If Tarly didn't survive they would've shown his death
cj_iwakura
Member
What is it? Didn't even see this episode's title, lol.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
He survives becausd Jon needs to tell him about his son.
Eastwatch.
DarkJediKnight
Member
DICKON?
That might be true, It was mostly to add to what you were saying. I have seen post and comments here and there that tend not to think about the production side of things. What they are doing with this show is pretty insane.
It's definitely on purpose, a bit like Frodo at the end of Lord of the Rings, they're broken after they journey and nothing is the same.
MushroomSamba
Member
Yup! Had the same thought
I love how it still managed to carry a completely different tone though thanks to the respective actors playing the parts. Jon carried a sense of discipline amid the chaos, whereas Bronn was more of a chameleon flowing with the chaos.
Slaver's Bay didn't have a monarch, Westeros is used to nothing but. Plus, she needs to establish control to offer concessions. Doing that now weakens her ability to effectively take the throne. If starts giving everyone independence right off the bat, it's exactly what Tyrion asked, "what if they all start demanding for their independence?"
More_Badass
Member
I wouldn't call that mad. At least not in the GoT universe. That's poetic justice, since it's drawn from a lore legend about vengeance for killing invited guests.
Robdraggoo
Member
No not that one ickon, the other one. With the R
The Artisan
Member
For everyone worrying about Dany or saying she's going mad like her dad, first of all, Cersei is too, and second of all, even if she doesn't listen to Varys or Tyrion she will listen to Jon.
She was gonna go to King's Landing with her dragons; Jon convinced her not to and instead she goes out for revenge in the reach.
Jon will be the ice to her fire. He will be the one who subconsciously make sure she won't become her father.
She was gonna go to King's Landing with her dragons; Jon convinced her not to and instead she goes out for revenge in the reach.
Jon will be the ice to her fire. He will be the one who subconsciously make sure she won't become her father.
DarkJediKnight
Member
I agree. I think there will be a father/son reunion before the series is over. Randyll will realize that he'll be reading the accomplishments of greater men - his son.
Still waiting to see what Sam will discover yet. It has to be something big, like how the first long night was stopped.
The Artisan
Member
Or he survives so Dany can make an example out of him.
Yup! Had the same thought
I love how it still managed to carry a completely different tone though thanks to the respective actors playing the parts. Jon carried a sense of discipline amid the chaos, whereas Bronn was more of a chameleon flowing with the chaos.
The distinct contrast in lighting and color was also great.
I think all three are crazy in their own respective ways, and to varying degrees
-- Bran is crazy because he's become increasingly disconnected from everything
-- Arya is happily crazy and wants to murder everyone in her path
-- Sansa is quietly crazy because she's been around Cersei, Ramsay, and Littlefinger too long
The One Who Knocks
Member
While I agree that Daenerys is not as bad as Cersei, and an argument to that affect can certainly not be made, viewing Daenerys as a positive force (which she has purposely been portrayed as) is just being purposely blind to what exactly Daenerys quest actually entails. She kills her enemies through incredibly brutal means (crucifixions, and burning them alive) as Cersei does (Cersei, of course, is far more brutal) and has no compassion for those who stand against her. Her goal from the very beginning has been to conquer a continent and slaughter her enemies simply because she believes she's entitled to rule them, but still wants them to love her in spite of this. She's not a very good ruler (as we see in Slaver's Bay) and even knowing the war that's to come she still insists in squabbling over the Iron Throne and puts Jon's unwillingness to bow before her over protecting the seven kingdoms she wishes to rule. If she fails diplomacy she is unwilling to compromise and instead simply burns her enemies alive. She doesn't try to give those in Westeros a reason to follow her, or a reason to love her, she simply demands it of them. Those who follow her consist of a horde of Dothraki (who have no choice but to follow her as she murdered their leaders, an army of Unsullied who knew nothing other than fighting and had nowhere else to go (and are in a situation where leaving means defying the individual they just saw burn the city; as Jon points out to Missandei, they're not truly free, they're just serving a different master), and people joining her simply because they hate the current individuals in power more. Yes she listens to some of her advisors to not burn down King's Landing, and to give Jon the ability to mine dragon glass, but if others in Westeros won't bow before her, how merciful will she truly be to them?
Daenerys comes across as good because those she faces are monstrous and (have been previously) relatively nameless, she has nice ideas and doesn't naturally want to incite violence (she just does it anyway) or kill civilians, her victories are portrayed very heroically and in an uplifting manner in the show, she's staunchly against the idea of slavery (but is still totally okay with ruling over others simply because her name is Daenerys Targaryen), and came from absolutely horrible beginnings which she managed to turn into what she has now.
The meeting with Jon very starkly contrasts him with Daenerys, and it's not accidental. Both of them have given freedom to others (the Wildlings and slaves), both can argue they have a right to a kingdom (the north, and the seven kingdoms), both have encountered some seemingly monstrous and savage people, but their attitude is entirely different, and Jon is in many ways what Daenerys aspires to be, rather than who she actually is thus far. He doesn't rule because he's entitled to it, or because he wants to do it, he does it because those around him respect him as a ruler, and if others wish to walk they can walk (and still have somewhere to go) and won't be executed or burnt because of it. He doesn't try to destroy or give brutal deaths to any who have defied or opposed him (Wildlings), and doesn't simply kill them as soon as democracy has failed (Mance, the defectors in the Night's Watch prior to their killing him). He doesn't wear his titles as a point of pride to try and leave others in awe of him. He simply wants to protect the realm from a substantial evil (as far as we know thus far).
None of this is to say that Daenerys is inherently bad, or is an incredibly evil person, it's clearly much more complicated than that as the season has thus far revolved around the internal conflict of her wanting to be loved and inspired by the citizens of Westeros and accepting her role as a conquerer (and a dragon; something especially relevant in a season where people have gained strength in accepting and drawing from who they are), but it isn't tough to see why people can legitimately argue that Daenerys is not the shining beacon she has been portrayed as up to this point.
EDIT: Awkwardly my autocorrect has turned every instance of "Westeros" into "Westerns"
Alligatorjandro
Banned
I have a feeling we're gone get some unexpected death no one would think of
molnizzle
Member
By these definitions everyone on the damn show is crazy. Which essentially means that no one is.
Westeros isn't our modern world. lol
I wouldn't say shit, just that the writing quality has dropped and for obvious reasons - it's mostly original. Logistics of character locations is getting a bit lazy, and wittiness and dialog complexity has been replaced by comic relief.
Basically the show has gone from a dark, medieval fantasy to a Summer blockbuster movie.
What you would think flying to the red keep means? that she would just burn the red keep and leave the rest untouched? even if this case and she didn't try to burn everyone standing on the wall defending the city only for the fire to spread to the whole city which the show implied since her advisers were against it, how is it ok to burn the red keep and kill hundreds of innocent servants and sit on the iron throne surrounded by ashes? burning people by fire from dragons or by wildfire is still madness.
Nintendo's Witch
Member
Episode 4.
HOLY
FUCKING
SHIT
😯😧😮😲😵
HOLY
FUCKING
SHIT
😯😧😮😲😵
While I don't really agree on the crazyness of Sansa, plenty of people on the show got pretty standard behaviour. Jon, Davos, Bronn (and much more) are perfectly balanced compared to the unhinged ones.
I think this comes from a basic misunderstanding of the Mad King.
Sherlock's brother said the bank would honor their pledge to back Cersei, but not until they actually have the gold. There seemed to be a lot of emphasis on that line - to the point where I a feeling that even though the gold made it to Kings Landing, it somehow won't end up in the Iron Bank's hands. Cersei may have to use it to make up for the losses she suffered at the hands of Dany/Drogon and the Dothraki now.
molnizzle
Member
She's the real monster.
The Hermit
Member
The One Who Knocks
Member
What the show didn't reveal yet is that drawing all of those paintings in the cave was precisely what Davos and Jon had been doing during their free time on Dragonstone.
There's a world of difference between flying to the Red Keep to kill the leaders of an opposing military force with collateral damage, and the Mad King's desire to destroy the entirety of King's Landing. One is an act of war, another is brazen insanity.
Tywin Lannister sacked King's Landing, destroying parts of the city that weren't even near the Red Keep. Do you think that act made Tywin insane?
molnizzle
Member
All three of those would still murder those who have crossed them out of revenge. Hell, Jon executed a damn child.
The Seven Kingdoms are rough places.
The plot thickens.
Duckroll's standards, not even once
I mean, yeah, it was revenge but it was also the law.
Sanctuary
Member
You must be excrutiatingly hard to please. This, coming from someone who is extremely hard to please. Three of the four current episodes have been on par with any of the season finale episodes. Jesus.
This. I think the belief is that the Mad King wanted to burn King's Landing and that's how got the name, or he burned some nobles and that's how became known by that title. Nope.
Aegon burned castles and wiped armies off of the map with his dragons. He wasn't Mad. Even if she starts burning castles, it would be akin to Aegon the Conquerer. Harrenhaal still stands as testament to how he conquered Westeros. And yet Dany isn't doing it that way completely. She fought an army.
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