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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Perfect, thanks guys. Clash is hazier to me than it should be for a book I only read last summer. I definitely didn't attribute enough importance to
Storm's End, instead thinking it was just a minor locale where Edric was holed up by Robert, and where shadow baby 2 happened.
I think my confusion might arise from the lack of a comprehensive Baratheons house tree in the book appendices compared to the Starks, Lannisters, etc.
Edit-never mind, the first book lists it all. It's been a year, I'm forgetful.
I also have no idea why Riverrun's name escaped me temporarily, lol.
Lot of good shit in this episode. The only thing I liked about the Joffery scene is it shows Jim fighting back a little against Tyrion, something we haven't seen much of. Which is odd if you consider what a hateful prick he is.
Harrenhal, Tyrion/Lancel, Stannis/Renly...man, so much was so good. And damn they didn't hold back with Melissandre.
Harrenhal, Tyrion/Lancel, Stannis/Renly...man, so much was so good. And damn they didn't hold back with Melissandre.
The only thing that stood out for me was
Jeyne's introduction.
Mel uses the shadow baby twice. In the show they nerfed the cooldown to once per season.
Riverrun isn't a Kingdom. The Iron Islands are.
The scene with Dany is completely made up. I personally found it terrible and worse than the one with Joffrey.
That makes more sense. Properly contexualizes Balon's rebellion as a rebellion.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Jaqen mentioned the red god. Is this the show condensing the pantheon, or does he actually say that at this point in Clash?
edit: Looked into my own question. Apparently he does. It is unclear if he meant that the fire would have killed him- thus the red god, or whether he is a worshiper of the red god Series
The Riverlands actually were part of the Stormlands at one point, then they became holdings of the Iron Islands, and then they were taken over by the Tullys after Harrenhall burned during the Conquest. I believe the Tullys and the Tyrells are the only familes that weren't kings pre Conquest, correct?
edit: Looked into my own question. Apparently he does. It is unclear if he meant that the fire would have killed him- thus the red god, or whether he is a worshiper of the red god Series
in his current disguise, or that he was the most apt "face" of the faceless god to mention in the situation
The Riverlands actually were part of the Stormlands at one point, then they became holdings of the Iron Islands, and then they were taken over by the Tullys after Harrenhall burned during the Conquest. I believe the Tullys and the Tyrells are the only familes that weren't kings pre Conquest, correct?
Huh you're right, I got confused since the Riverrun lord is liege lord to the rest of the other lords of the riverlands.
edit:
The Riverlands were its own kingdom at some point, at least.
The Riverlands (Tully) weren't one of the original Seven. Well, actually they were under the rule of the Iron Islands. They later became their own kingdom.
edit: oops got answered already.
I had a vague memory of Dany just kind of rolling on into Qarth unchallenged, but I couldn't remember exactly. [ACOK/maybe AFFC]
maybe they're combining this city and the one that actually doesn't permit her to come inside? I forget the name.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Riverlands were never a kingdom. They were independent from the Iron Islands only after the Conquest, and by then they were just a part of the kingdom.
edit: I take it back as well, the Greyjoys weren't kings pre-conquest either, although they have a unique selection process compared to the other great houses, so they might have some kingly blood in them.
edit: I take it back as well, the Greyjoys weren't kings pre-conquest either, although they have a unique selection process compared to the other great houses, so they might have some kingly blood in them.
The scene in the show where Joffrey makes that prostitute beat the other.
Tywin showing up at Harrenhal.
The rat torture.
Little Finger at Renly's camp and talking to Cat.
And then Melisendre giving birth to the shadow baby.The whole scene with Davos taking her in the boat reminded me of the 2nd time she uses the shadow in Clash. The first time when it actually kills Renly we don't see the birthing right? We just see the shadow killing Renly.
Who's Jeyne?
It could just be my bad memory lol
She's pretty much welcomed with open arms, I just checked. They better not do what's in your spoiler though.
That also confused me when I saw how it was in the show.
I just did a quick google to clarify this, and leave it to the asoiaf forum-goer's to know the history of Westeros probably better than they do actual world history:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/36113-the-7-kingdoms-and-westeros/
Apparently, Iron Islands were one of the seven kingdoms, and the Greyjoys used to rule over both the Iron Islands and the Riverlands. But when the Targaryens conquered them all, the Greyjoys were the only major house to lose territory and relinquished rule over the riverlands. I'm guessing that's when the Tully's, Catelyn's family, took over.
I don't remember reading any of this in the book -- probably in some side story. But it does explain why the Greyjoys have generations of bitterness and resentment, and the Tullys are eager to gain better position amongst the other houses by marrying into them.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Close, but not exact. Greyjoys took over after the previous king was killed. The previous king was killed in Harrenhall, the melted castle we saw in tonight's episode.
Tyrells also have an inferiority complex because they are technically just Stewards, but that is really meaningless for all but vanity purposes. As is the Riverlands history, they have some of the most fertile lands, and are a pretty rich area.
Pollux
Member
Cornballer
Member
Content Roundup
Reviews:
- Sepinwall
- Onion Knight A|V Club
- EW.com
- WiC.net
- Westeros.org
- memles
- IndieWire
- Maureen Ryan
- otakuASSEMBLE
HBO videos:
- Preview for next week's episode "The Ghost of Harrenhal" (youtube copy, please spoiler tag any discussion)
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature for "Garden of Bones"
Reviews:
- Sepinwall
- Onion Knight A|V Club
- EW.com
- WiC.net
- Westeros.org
- memles
- IndieWire
- Maureen Ryan
- otakuASSEMBLE
HBO videos:
- Preview for next week's episode "The Ghost of Harrenhal" (youtube copy, please spoiler tag any discussion)
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature for "Garden of Bones"
It was a pointless change. It boiled down to "I have dragons but you can't see them NYAH NYAH NYAH". And that message worked just as well to the Qarthians as it did to the audience. Also "I'm being a super bitch and endangering the survival of my people for no reason at all"
Pollux
Member
Kingdom of the North - Starks (Direwolf)
Kingdom of the Vale - Arryn (Eagle)
Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers - Greyjoys (Kraken) (The Greyjoys ruled the Riverlands, where the Tullys are from aka the Fish on the map, and where Cat grew up)
Kingdom of the Rock - Lannisters (Lion)
Kingdom of the Reach - Tyrells (Flower)
Kingdom of the Stormlands - Baratheon (Stag)
Kingdom of Dorne - Martell (Spear through the sun)
The thing they missed was the entrance.. They just started the scene with them together instead of them slowly walking up to each other. And the part where renly said 'blah blah blah I got a 100000 men with me' they should have shown the army(budget?)
Yeah, I thought that they missed the great "oh shit moment" from the book when Renly finds out that Stannis just landed his ships outside the camp.
The 7 kingdoms, prior to Aegon's conquest, were:
1. The North ruled by the Starks in Winterfell
2. The Vale ruled by the Arryns of the Eyrie
3. The Westerlands ruled by the Lannisters of Casterly Rock
4. The Iron Islands and the conquered Riverlands territory ruled by Harren the Black of the Iron Islands (Harrenhall was build in his name. It's construction was completed on the exact day Aegon and his dragons landed on what would become King's Landing. The Riverlords were unhappy with their Ironborn rulers and were already on the verge of rebellion, so House Tully took leadership and joined cause with Aegon and was rewarded the title of Lord paramount of the Riverlands afterwards)
5. The Reach ruled by House Gardener of Highgarden (House Tyrell were stewards of the Gardeners, but after the Gardener/Lannister alliance was defeated by Aegon on the burning fields, the Tyrells surrendered Highgarden to Aegon and were rewarded with their former masters' seat and declared lords paramount of the Reach)
6. The Stormlands ruled by House Baratheon of Storm's End (House Baratheon was originally a bastard branch of house Targaryen that distinguished itself during Aegon's conquest by killing the last of the Storm Kings and were rewarded Storm's End after the war. The fact that House Baratheon could trace its lineage back to being Targaryen bastards and that Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen both helped bolster his claim to the throne after his rebellion)
7. Dorne ruled by House Martell of Sunspear
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Tyrion was badass this episode. Also like them talking about the brotherhood. Nice to get that out there.
Yeah there wasn't even a setup before that or some clue-in to the viewer that Stannis had arrived to parlay.
I get the sense that this episode may have originally been the usual 58-60 minutes, but (ACOK spoiler)
Renly's death didn't test as well of an ending as the shadow birth, considering how dark this episode was to begin with...Plus this is the first introduction to "magic" on the show, and that probably needs some time to sink in for the audience.
Yeah in the book Renly pretty much had a standing army behind him, ready to fight. Some will argue that they don't wanna add more locations like Storm's End to avoid confusion. [aCoK]
After seeing how they went to black when Robb stormed the Lannister camp, it's obvious they're banking the big battle budget for Blackwater.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Totally forgot, Renly with the line of the night: "Is he a ham?"
Joffrey is a sadistic prick; They've already set this up, but I guess the whore beating was to reinforce this. Also, it was an opportunity to have a couple naked ladies on the screen.
I'm not sure why Tywin is showing up at Harrenhal right now instead of when he was supposed to.
They heated the bucket, making the rat want to get out of the bucket. The only way out of the bucket was straight through the fleshy meat bag on the other end. As for why, they want to know where the "brotherhood" is (ACOK)
(they've yet to explain what "the brotherhood" is in the show, but it's in the books).
Little Finger was sent to broker a deal with Cat Stark to get Jaime Lannister in exchange for Arya and Sansa Stark. She was at Renly's camp, so that's where he went. While there, he hatched some plans of his own with Renly, or at least talked about it briefly.
The birthing may have been changed a bit. I'd need to re-read. Them showing it happen may have just been because it seemed like an awesome idea.
Woo-Fu
Banned
If an entire battle can fit into a fade to black I imagine you can fit quite a bit of sexual torture in one too, up to and beyond your worst imaginings.
SerArthurDayne
Member
I was just in the other thread, and I was reminded of my favorite line, which I didn's see mentioned here.
There's no cure for being a cunt.
Bronn is fantastic.
Renly's ham line was great, too.
Also, my audio isn't great, what did the girl introduce herself as to Robb?
Cornballer, I saw there was a list of volunteers to answer book questions from the other thread. Feel free to add me to the list, as I enjoy the book back story stuff a ton.
There's no cure for being a cunt.
Bronn is fantastic.
Renly's ham line was great, too.
Also, my audio isn't great, what did the girl introduce herself as to Robb?
Cornballer, I saw there was a list of volunteers to answer book questions from the other thread. Feel free to add me to the list, as I enjoy the book back story stuff a ton.
CoK spoiler
The birthing is explained in the book just as it was show in the show but it was at a different time when they were taking another castle after renley died. It seems they are cutting out that part which is fine because it existed really only to show where the shadow being came from
Net_Wrecker
Member
Kinda surprised they ended the episode there, but still GOTDAMN they did the shadowbaby justice. Great episode.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Haha, oh man. Prepare yourself
SerArthurDayne
Member
She is just a young girl, and knows little of these things.
Buckethead
Banned
Although at first I thought it was a terrible miscast, Xaro proved me wrong tonight.
Great job.
Also, yes, Bronn is awesome.
Great job.
Also, yes, Bronn is awesome.
Why's everyone surprised that that sequence ended the episode? It's a moment begging to be an hour-ending cliffhanger.
Readers of CoK might find it fun to pick out and guess (in tags) exactly where the next six episodes could/will/should end. Unless that's not appropriate for this thread.
Readers of CoK might find it fun to pick out and guess (in tags) exactly where the next six episodes could/will/should end. Unless that's not appropriate for this thread.
It was either spend money on the shadow baby, or spend money on the battle at the beginning of the show. They chose wisely.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
HOLY FUCK! HOLY. FUCK!
You guys know which part....
That wasn't in the book...and I haven't felt that uneasy since the knife scene in Pvt Ryan.
You guys know which part....
That wasn't in the book...and I haven't felt that uneasy since the knife scene in Pvt Ryan.
This episode was good and special effects were amazing, not my favorite episode this season but I enjoyed it. Oh and Michelle Fairley totally deserves a best supporting actress nomination, I initially wanted Maise to get it but so far Michelle as Catelyn has been the best.
I don't think it is a big deal, I'd love it if the dragons were around all the time but I'd rather they save money and use it on other stuff. It's an odd thing to complain about considering that this episode the special effects department was the star and clearly used their money wisely and well. Harrenhal, Qarth, shadow babies were all awesome.
I don't think it is a big deal, I'd love it if the dragons were around all the time but I'd rather they save money and use it on other stuff. It's an odd thing to complain about considering that this episode the special effects department was the star and clearly used their money wisely and well. Harrenhal, Qarth, shadow babies were all awesome.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Dude was huge, not expecting that.
Liked how they made him a Summer Islander. A nod to the books, a bit of consistency, and it makes sense as he is just (technically) a merchant. The white guy whose name is too difficult to pronounce was kind of a shit. Scene had issues, but it was fine overall, I thought.
Also, just realized he co-starred with Drogo in the Conan bomba movie. He was kind of the buddy character, as I recall. Which, to be honest, I don't recall all that well. Clash
Xaro's pretend personality should be similar, but I hope he conveys that he is an evil bastard just below the surface
Still don't understand why they didn't just kill everybody and steal the dragons.
Dreams-Visions
Member
woah at the end.
petethepanda
Member
That brief shot of Qarth was breathtaking.
Edit: Did anybody else get really excited when Joff briefly turned the crossbow on Ros? I'm sitting there saying "do it do it do it" lol
Edit: Did anybody else get really excited when Joff briefly turned the crossbow on Ros? I'm sitting there saying "do it do it do it" lol
Net_Wrecker
Member
I just thought (ACOK SPOILERS):
they would merge the shadow assassin birth + Renly death into one giant WTFFFFFFFF ending with the final scene being Catelyn and Brienne fleeing.
Not saying it wasn't a good way to end the episode though.
Pollux
Member
ACOK
they better do the House of the Undying justice...I may be in the minority but I would rather have that done perfectly, with every prophecy in detail than a full-blown blackwater. We're not going to get an amazing battle scene (i.e. Kingdom of Heaven) so I would rather them do something that they can nail vs. giving us a short small battle that will just fade out anyway
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