palpabl_purpura
Member
Anybody know what the replay value is going to be on this one? What about previous GOW titles. Just coming from Bayonetta, there was so much packed into the game, and it's kept me going for 60+hours and counting.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
God Of War 3 Has Gone Gold - Lots of Reviews Out Already
- Thread starter Baki
- Start date
Insane Metal
Member
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
People complaining about God of War 3 being too violent? Really?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
My point is not all games are for kids to watch. But not all M games require nudity.sankt-Antonio said:
GuardianE said:
I really shouldn't be up right now, but this is an intelligent, well thought out post that I feel deserves a reply.
The first portion of your argument has been answered and discussed above. I like to say how I feel plainly, and I do think that GoW is stupidly epic, because of the kind of stuff they pull in fights like the GoW fight. I don't even know how else I'm suppose to word that without seeming awkward. "Extravagant action choreography conflicts with common sense"? I'm sorry that people took this the wrong way, but I hate sugar coating everything, especially in a forum like this that is informal and casual about how people interact. I assumed that people wouldn't take the insults personally, but it seems I was wrong. So fine, I will apologize for that and be sure to be more more formal from now on, though I wish people just wouldn't take my tone too seriously.
And I'm a semi action game elitist. It's my favorite genre and I love examining the mechanics that go on in the games. But that doesn't mean I cannot interact with casuals, no can I? When I critique the GoW combat system, I'm simply speaking my mind on how I feel about GoW said based on my priorities, in which gameplay prevails over all other features. And others disagree, and we had ourselves a good conversation once we filtered out all the flaming. I never expected anyone here to be turned away from GoW based on what I was saying, nor do I expect anyone to change my values, but that's how conversations get started: By 2 people having different opinions about something they are passionate about.
Anyway, onto the combat system itself...I can't say I agree with you. Who in the world took over 12 hours to beat DMC4 on normal? Even if they get a shitty grade, they can still beat it. Same with Bayonetta, casual gamers will typically have SOME experience with games before hand, and will be able to beat Bayonetta in a reasonable ammount of time. The only combat system that's really inaccessible is NG, and even that's arguable.
What I always felt is that GoW offered that other action games didn't is that it made you feel like you accomplished something for free, while in other games you had to earn it. Let me explain. For you to do well in Bayonetta, it's not enough that you have to kill the enemies. You have to do it is stylishly and making full use of your weapons for combo points, you have to avoid being hit, and you have to do it in an efficient time frame. And god help you if you die against an enemy. You pull and struggle, and fall and pull yourself back up, and what do you get for your troubles? The game laughing at how much you suck with a stone trophy. Now, look at god of war. Besides a combo counter, there's nothing that's ranking you in any way, and your sole objective is to defeat an enemy. The game does not mock you for doing poorly, and once you do defeat an enemy, you are treated to a visually pleasing QTE. That is why casuals prefer God of war, because makes you feel like a badass no matter what.
So, I find it hard to believe that a person can beat GoW but cannot beat DMC4 on a normal level, or Bayoentta on normal, or Ninja Gaiden on easy. In terms of accessibility, the combat systems all have a level that can be played by anyone, it's just that the other games explicitly tell you you suck if you do badly while GoW treats you to it's rewards regardless. So, I stand by my statement that GoW can get an upgrade in it's combat system without losing it's accessibility, and should do so.
As for my assertions, it's only commenting on that one fight, and I'm not judging anything, just making predictions on what the rest of the game will be like based on what has happened in past GoW games, based on info we've seen, and based on the videos we have witnessed. I'm sorry, but I don't feel that's so outrageous. And yes, I asked fans to explain if the cinematic feel is really that important to them that they happily accept what looks to be less than stellar gameplay when I feel they could have a better combat system without losing it's accessibility or cinematic flair. On the contrary, it will feel all the more satisfying killing Poseidon in such a brutal way when he actaully gave you trouble during his battle. I know I had a happier time slamming Theseus in the door after he gave me an (annoying) challenge than my first time on normal where he was just another hardly a threat. Questioning someone's logic is not an automatic insult.
Callibretto
Member
just made this
gif from Gamepro vid review, I'll just post the link so people who are avoiding spoiler won't be spoiled.
http://i50.tinypic.com/219yqfr.jpg
Gaia Punch
http://i50.tinypic.com/219yqfr.jpg
Pistolero said:
It's a love hate relationship. Ninja Gaiden is a great example. It basically tortures players the first time through. But then you master the system, and go back. And the enemies that were tormentors are now your playthings. Playing Ninja Gaiden and getting your ass kicked sucked. Playing Ninja Gaiden and kicking ass is the single greatest feeling I've ever gotten from a game. Nothing in GoW ever even came close.
As for the gameplay comment, I should have worded it better. I am talking about the combat only.
Vicetrailia
Member
A tired argument from last gen.
Windom Earle
Member
Did the final build receive a bump in graphics compared to the demo? I'm not very impressed with it 
Sure, it looks nice, but its not the showcase title GoW used to be in the PS2 era.
Sure, it looks nice, but its not the showcase title GoW used to be in the PS2 era.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I'm on media outage now but what I've seen looks far more amazing than what was first shown of the game. And let's not make these kinds of statements until we've played the game. The last stuff I watched was the GTTV footage from last Thursday/Friday and that looked incredible.schennmu said:Did the final build receive a bump in graphics compared to the demo? I'm not very impressed with it
It's a pretty huge jump. The demo build is from May of last year. It looks spectacular now.schennmu said:Did the final build receive a bump in graphics compared to the demo? I'm not very impressed with it
Always-honest
Banned
LiquidMetal14 said:
tits are here to look at
Callibretto
Member
Generic said:
beating a hard enemies in a challenging game is indeed satisfying, but to get through that, you may have to retry that fight a couple times before you can finally beat the boss, and you're making assumption that every player from casual to hardcore have that patience to retry a boss fight again and again until they win.
furthermore, retrying boss fight again and again hurt the pacing and cinematic feel God of War series trying to achieve. I'm sure the developer never intend the game to be punishing.
Callibretto said:
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. I'm saying it doesn't have to be either/or. You can have your cake and eat it too. They can make the game easy enough that a player can get through without dying too much, but still give it a great combat system. DMC4 did it, why can't GoW?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I drink to that!Always-honest said:
The game isn't tailored to your tastes! Get over it!Generic said:
While I too love the games you've been discussing, I think God of War deserves plenty of respect in its own right. It's doing something quite different. There is a reason for its popularity, you know...
Always-honest
Banned
ripping someones head of on the other hand can be pretty traumatic for a kid.. god of war3 is not for kids.LiquidMetal14 said:
but tits are normal..
Callibretto
Member
Generic said:
I'm a bit unsure of what you mean by getting combat upgrade without losing accessibility. are you meaning the lack of punishing nature that other action game like Ninja Gaiden has?
if it's the punishable nature of other action games, I don't think it suit God of War series at all. like I said before, some casual gamer lack the patience or time needed to learn the combat system just to beat the game. you said casual gamer like GoW because it make them feel badass for free. and what's wrong with that? both games goal are to entertain player. but how they entertain the gamer are very different. Ninja Gaiden entertain by forcing gamer to learn the system and the reward is the satisfaction for beating though enemies. God of War entertain by rewarding gamer with eye pleasing set pieces.
the film analogy is, if Ninja Gaiden is the artsy film(don't laughs, just an example for gameplay analogy, the story has nothing to do with the analogy) that you need to understand the deeper meaning to enjoy. God of War is the summer blockbuster movie with grand spectacle and cool visual effect. both just have different value for their fanbase
if by upgrading the combat system mean more options and more movesets, have you checked out gttv episode? looks like they're expanding the combat nicely, changing weapon on the fly, magic, dash/air dash/ long range magic/ etc. then there's enemies that are more vulnerable to specific weapon. I'd say the combat system looks pretty good and have some depths. I think someone can make a cool combo videos with all those options available if they want to.
Ugh we are going around in circles Generic. I don't think anyone was ever trying to compare the combat of ninja gaiden to god of war. god of war has a much more streamlined combo system compared, that's not why people love the gow series. They love it for the total package of solid gameplay and epic presentation. The combat in ninja gaiden was very rewarding, but the story,characters,and overall presentation was lacking compared
schennmu said:Did the final build receive a bump in graphics compared to the demo? I'm not very impressed with it
Im not sure if ppls are being serious or are being joke characters. Are you fucking blind?(no offense) Go see the GTTV stuff. Im not gonna do so but I can tell from a few screens its a big fucking massive jump. You havent seen nor played the game to say "its not the showcase title GoW used to be in the PS2 era". Based on reviews and quick videos it seems so while topping Uncharted 2. What else do you need?
Callibretto
Member
rhino4evr said:
I presume what he want is a challenging and rewarding combat while still having the epic presentation.
my response is that I think the combat in God of War is already challenging enough but it's not punishable. and imo punishable and accessibility is in direct contrast of each other. you can't have punishable games that are accessible.
Callibretto said:
rhino4evr said:
Callibretto said:
There is a major misunderstanding going on here. No, I didn't mean that I want GoW to be like NG, that wouldn't work at all, I am aware of that. Someone else asked why I enjoy the masochism that games provide, and I felt that NG best showed how I felt.
A better example to show how I want GoW's combat to be like is DMC4, in that it's easy to beat the game on normal (So it's accessible), but the combat system is genuinely deep as well. Yes, Callibretto, I've seen the GTTV, and it looks like the improved Kratos, but the enemies are still lacking. I want them to improve, just have more moves than 2 moves per stage, and have them actually feel like they are trying to kill you with everything they have. Both of these parts wouldn't be hard. For example, imagine if Poseidon didn't have those 2 tentacles on the sides just standing there? Then my complaint about him not using his full might would not stand. Just design enemies to be as lethal as possible, rather than look lethal as possible and fall short. Or they could have Kratos be given a way to dodge those extra tentacles, but don't just have them standing there doing nothing. I said before that GoW can stand to be a bit more aggressive, and I still stand by that. So long as Kratos has the reasoanble capability to dodge those things, the casual player should be fine. Either way, with a good combat system, action gamers like myself will get a bigger kick out of GoW, casual players will still get their victories and cinematics, and I just feel everyone wins.
Callibretto
Member
EvaPlusMinus said:
man, I hope that fight won't make
Hercules looks like a loser
I want
a fairly even fight, I want Kratos to have his share of beating in and when he won the fight, you see him breathing hard or sign that he just won a though fight.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Schennmu said:Did the final build receive a bump in graphics compared to the demo? I'm not very impressed with it
Judging by the footage floating around now, I'd say yes it has. Certainly art-direction, animation, and overall scale are above and beyond my expectations, technically its definitely up there with Killzone2 and Uncharted2 in really showcasing the PS3.
The main thing that concerned me about the demo was the unstable frame-rate, something that isn't apparent to me in the video footage nor has it been commented upon in any previews/reviews. So hopefully that's not an issue either.
catashtrophe
Member
Why now official thread yet for this or FF13?
They come out so soon.
They come out so soon.
why a few keep talking about ninja gaiden or bayonetta? This is GOW, it is what it is , not bayonetta with a skin.
It happened with KZ2, it had to be like COD. Now. i never enjoyed NG or DMC because thy lacked something i find in GoW: accecibility and fucking spectacular and epic
It happened with KZ2, it had to be like COD. Now. i never enjoyed NG or DMC because thy lacked something i find in GoW: accecibility and fucking spectacular and epic
Callibretto
Member
Desi said:
well did you see gamepro vid?
Poseidon looks very badass in gttv footage when he dive straight into a titan and summon leviathan. but in the end the way he died is just not befitting of a God. beaten to death, trying to crawl away from Kratos and finally died having his eyes gouged out by Kratos. all that and Kratos doesn't look like he broke even a sweat. I convinced myself that Poseidon is severely weakened by Gaia Punch just moment before he got killed by Kratos.
Eliciel
Member
Don't know if old:
"AA on the cpu is MLAA Morphological Antialising. We saved 5-6 miliseconds by moving it off the cpu's. Many props to our coder Cedric for making this happen and it looks way better!
For GoW3 we are not using screen space ambient occlusion. We are using a couple other versions of AO including baked for environments, AO texture maps and a pixel calculation that creates better shading on normal maps in indirect lit areas.
Number of dynamic lights - ALOT! that is one of the big features of our engine. We built it around being able to use up to 20 dynamic lights per game object. The light can be big or small, it doesn't matter. In the end, i believe we support up to 50 dynamic lights per game object. We are not using a differed lighting scheme. Our lead programmer Vassily came up with this amazing system during pre-production, us artists love it!!! We can place lights in Maya and have them update in realtime in the game on the PS3, its like being able to paint with lights. Lighting is fast and a very enjoyable artistic process.
Off the top of my head i don't remember exactly poly count numbers for the character. We use as many polys as it takes. My guess for Zues, Kratos and Hades is 25-30,000k triangles. Again, off the top of my head, texture sizes for these character is quite big. I think we are using 2048's for the lower, upper body and head. Each character gets a normal, diffuse, specular, gloss(power map), AO, and skin shader map. We also use can layer textures to create more tiling, and use environment maps were needed, etc."
http://forums.godofwar.com/t5/God-o...opers-on-Forums-Right-Here/td-p/30061/page/14
"AA on the cpu is MLAA Morphological Antialising. We saved 5-6 miliseconds by moving it off the cpu's. Many props to our coder Cedric for making this happen and it looks way better!
For GoW3 we are not using screen space ambient occlusion. We are using a couple other versions of AO including baked for environments, AO texture maps and a pixel calculation that creates better shading on normal maps in indirect lit areas.
Number of dynamic lights - ALOT! that is one of the big features of our engine. We built it around being able to use up to 20 dynamic lights per game object. The light can be big or small, it doesn't matter. In the end, i believe we support up to 50 dynamic lights per game object. We are not using a differed lighting scheme. Our lead programmer Vassily came up with this amazing system during pre-production, us artists love it!!! We can place lights in Maya and have them update in realtime in the game on the PS3, its like being able to paint with lights. Lighting is fast and a very enjoyable artistic process.
Off the top of my head i don't remember exactly poly count numbers for the character. We use as many polys as it takes. My guess for Zues, Kratos and Hades is 25-30,000k triangles. Again, off the top of my head, texture sizes for these character is quite big. I think we are using 2048's for the lower, upper body and head. Each character gets a normal, diffuse, specular, gloss(power map), AO, and skin shader map. We also use can layer textures to create more tiling, and use environment maps were needed, etc."
http://forums.godofwar.com/t5/God-o...opers-on-Forums-Right-Here/td-p/30061/page/14
Salz01 said:
I was told at the event that the average time it took to complete the game during the play tests was about 15 hours. I think the difficulty one plays at is going to be a big factor in determining the play length. People that have played other GOW games may want to start on hard difficulty (this was recommended by Adam Puhl, Lead Combat/Weapons Designer.)