Support NeoGAF

[JimboJones]

It doesn't but why is this point not a well trodden path since DF started advocating for DLSS frame-gen tech?

You don't watch DF if that's your take.

 

[Astray]

Yes. It’s a prediction. An opinion. They’ve never said they were 100% sure or that it was a certainty. And they weren’t alone. Lots of folks here believed it would be 30fps on base console, and nobody went into outrage mode when NXGamer made largely the same assumption.

I don't follow NXGamer's content, but if he said the same thing then he's guilty of the same thing.

They all should not peddle nonsense and educated guesses if they don't have the actual data to back it up, if it actually comes out and it's 30hz (or if it's announced to be so) then by all means they should talk about it as much as they want.

Trust for these kinds of channels are built on being consistently right, not on being first. And DF have been trying very hard to be first and going out of their competence zone to do so for a while now.

 

[Schmendrick]

but you're the one claiming with certainty that they've advanced the game to a point where it's impossible

I simply stated the fact that argumenting either way and basing said argument on quite literally ancient tech and game design is utterly stupid, which it is. I repeatedly said "we don`t know, we have to wait and see".

That you claim stuff like this just shows that you haven`t even read what you are replying to.....

I´m out.

 

[Ozriel]

That doesn't jive with this though.

"I still assume that GTA VI will be a 30fps game, unless some kind of technological miracle happens, and there is no technology in the PS5 Pro that can change that."

Those two statements together are not a "well reasoned argument". They contradict each other directly.

how does it not jive?
They’ve detailed why they think it will be a 30fps game, and none of their reasons are out of place. If someone opened a thread here with those assumptions, they wouldn’t meet with much opposition.

At the same time, they - like everyone else - have had the PS5 Pro specs for a while and know the CPU uplift is very modest.



Again, a lot rests on the assumption that GTA 6 would be 30fps on current gen consoles.

Edit: Wait....that's an article from March?

Yes. They had an earlier stream where they made the same 30fps prediction and it got a lot of feedback, so They wrote this article back in March to further explain why exactly they thought it very unlikely GTA 6 would have a 60fps mode.
Surprising how there wasn’t any angry thread here when this article was published, and yet merely reiterating this same conclusion in a brief paragraph in their reaction article this week has led to this brigading from angry fanboys.

 

[M.W.]

Well, duh.

 

[Topher]

how does it not jive?
They’ve detailed why they think it will be a 30fps game, and none of their reasons are out of place. If someone opened a thread here with those assumptions, they wouldn’t meet with much opposition.

At the same time, they - like everyone else - have had the PS5 Pro specs for a while and know the CPU uplift is very modest.



Again, a lot rests on the assumption that GTA 6 would be 30fps on current gen consoles.



Yes. They had an earlier stream where they made the same 30fps prediction and it got a lot of feedback, so They wrote this article back in March to further explain why exactly they thought it very unlikely GTA 6 would have a 60fps mode.
Surprising how there wasn’t any angry thread here when this article was published, and yet merely reiterating this same conclusion in a brief paragraph in their reaction article this week has led to this brigading from angry fanboys.

Doesn't jive because now they are claiming it will require a "miracle". I think if they would not have used such an hyperbolic choice of words this wouldn't be controversial at all.

But generating controversy is DF's bread and butter and so where we are.

 

[Ozriel]

I don't follow NXGamer's content, but if he said the same thing then he's guilty of the same thing.

They all should not peddle nonsense and educated guesses if they don't have the actual data to back it up, if it actually comes out and it's 30hz (or if it's announced to be so) then by all means they should talk about it as much as they want.

Trust for these kinds of channels are built on being consistently right, not on being first. And DF have been trying very hard to be first and going out of their competence zone to do so for a while now.

Again, this is nonsense.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with DF or Nxgamer expressing educated opinions or assumptions, as long as they clearly caveat these opinions and make it clear what they’re based on.


In this case, it is CLEARLY obvious to anyone with basic English proficiency that they are making an assumption based on multiple data points…and they say there’s a chance they could be wrong. There is absolutely no requirement for an opinion to be ‘right’. This isn’t rocket science at all.

What should be the key takeaway here is that thanks to very modest CPU upgrades, it isn’t likely that there would exist a 60fps mode on the Pro if the base console has a 30fps target.

Call them out if there’s anything in their thought process that is overtly wrong. Some key points:

- all previous GTAs have targeted 30fps on their launch consoles
- GTA 6 trailer shows some of the most next gen footage we’ve seen, with high NPC density.
- PS5 Pro CPU is only 10% more powerful than that of the base PS5

If you’re able to dismiss any or all of these as overtly wrong or misleading, by all means, go ahead.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Guess we'll find out in 2026 after GTA gets delayed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

DF have become completely stupid with this shit. They really need to quit with the quasi-console warring content because it's driving the entire gaming discourse downhill at this point.

You don't have access to the game (yet), what on earth makes you informed enough to make these proclamations?

"GTA 5 is CPU-bound, therefore GTA 6 will definitely be CPU-bound" is a baseless assumption at this point in time.

Funny, because RDR2 leaned heavily on GPGPU for a lot of the simulations as well as the GTAV remake leaning on graphical cores as well. Which is why RDR2 scales very well on the PC with the CPU side of things and GPUs are what gets your more framerate/visual bang for the buck. Especially with DLSS, which PSSR is supposed to be similar to.

 

[adamsapple]

Guess we'll find out in 2026 after GTA gets delayed.

GTA VI in Spring 2026 launching with SeXBox Series OhMy.

- all previous GTAs have targeted 30fps on their launch consoles
- GTA 6 trailer shows some of the most next gen footage we’ve seen, with high NPC density.
- PS5 Pro CPU is only 10% more powerful than that of the base PS5

And they'll use the 60 fps selling point to re-sell the game again on the next generation.

 

[AtomicStarving]

BS. GTA 6 will 10000% be 60fps on PS5 Pro, maybe even 60 on the base PS5/SeriesX, at 1080p to low (performance mode). Makes no sense.

The trailer alone is running on the current gen hardware, at 1440p30. With PS5 Pro new GPU plus PSSR will definitely run at 60FPS. My bet Rockstar will try to level all hardware to hit 30fps and a performance/60 mode on XSX/PS5 to balance things out for GTA Online. And that means dynamic resolution going down to 720p.

The CPU on XSX/PS5/PS5 Pro is powerfull enough. This combined with the approaches we have today of dynamic resolution and now PSSR. Also remember Rockstar has its own engine (the best in my opinion for its versatility on all fronts), it is not UE5, which has already proven to be a bitter taste on the backs of current consoles

 

[Ozriel]

Doesn't jive because now they are claiming it will require a "miracle". I think if they would not have used such an hyperbolic choice of words this wouldn't be controversial at all.

You’re taking ‘miracle’ out of context here. Essentially, they don’t see how the specs on offer can take it from a CPU bound 30fps on base hardware to 60fps on the Pro. And they’ve used ‘miracle’ to capture any possible boost bit implicit in the specs.

But generating controversy is DF's bread and butter and so where we are.

I don’t think DF begged IGN to make a big deal out of a one paragraph passage buried in their reaction article. Or begged angry fans on GAF to go into Outrage Mode over a very innocuous article.

 

[MMaRsu]

BS. GTA 6 will 10000% be 60fps on PS5 Pro, maybe even 60 on the base PS5/SeriesX, at 1080p to low (performance mode). Makes no sense.

LMAO

Wanna bet?

 

[GHG]

You’re taking ‘miracle’ out of context here. Essentially, they don’t see how the specs on offer can take it from a CPU bound 30fps on base hardware to 60fps on the Pro. And they’ve used ‘miracle’ to capture any possible boost bit implicit in the specs.

I'd like someone to point everyone towards information confirming the game, which is yet to release, is indeed CPU bound.

 

[AtomicStarving]

LMAO

Wanna bet?

Sure.

 

[Three]

I simply stated the fact that argumenting either way and basing said argument on quite literally ancient tech and game design is utterly stupid, which it is. I repeatedly said "we don`t know, we have to wait and see".

That you claim stuff like this just shows that you haven`t even read what you are replying to.....

I´m out.

"Ancient tech" that was scaled for new hardware to introduce the very thing you're using as an example of new tech, npc density. My question was that I've not seen any evidence of further simulation in the game world. This was the case with GTA4 vs GTA5 too, some even claim it regressed.
You jumped in flatly claiming that them not making drastic changes in world simulation is far-fetched when I said it's a possibility that it's not that different:

GTA 5 is already 60fps on PS5. I'm asking you where the extra "simulation or AI calls" are that you saw in GTAVI in comparison that won't allow it on the sequel on more powerful hardware and if you think it's just extra NPC crowd density why you think that can't be reduced for a 60fps mode like Spiderman. That's not to say it will but what makes you so confident in this conjecture?

And how does this have any relevance for GTAVI, unless you are suggesting that Rockstar just decided to not advance their by now 11 year old world simulation any further?

This discussion is moot until someone gets a real hands on with the game, but such takes trying to argument based on 11, >> eleven<< , year old tech just baffle me.

 

[JimboJones]

I'd like someone to point everyone towards information confirming the game, which is yet to release, is indeed CPU bound.

No one knows, it's just speculation based on footage shown.

 

[GHG]

No one knows, it's just speculation based on footage shown.

Based on the footage? A single trailer?

How does the trailer tell us the game is CPU bound?

 

[Topher]

You’re taking ‘miracle’ out of context here. Essentially, they don’t see how the specs on offer can take it from a CPU bound 30fps on base hardware to 60fps on the Pro. And they’ve used ‘miracle’ to capture any possible boost bit implicit in the specs.

I am not taking "miracle" out of context and that's not what a "miracle" is. This is just hyperbole. Pure and simple.

I don’t think DF begged IGN to make a big deal out of a one paragraph passage buried in their reaction article. Or begged angry fans on GAF to go into Outrage Mode over a very innocuous article.

lol...they know they don't have to.

 

[JimboJones]

Based on the footage? A single trailer?

How does the trailer tell us the game is CPU bound?

Wouldn't they want to show it at 60fps if they could?
Plus isn't it a historical precedent set by rockstar themselves?

 

[Lucifers Beard]

BS. GTA 6 will 10000% be 60fps on PS5 Pro, maybe even 60 on the base PS5/SeriesX, at 1080p to low (performance mode). Makes no sense.

The trailer alone is running on the current gen hardware, at 1440p30. With PS5 Pro new GPU plus PSSR will definitely run at 60FPS. My bet Rockstar will try to level all hardware to hit 30fps and a performance/60 mode on XSX/PS5 to balance things out for GTA Online. And that means dynamic resolution going down to 720p.

The CPU on XSX/PS5/PS5 Pro is powerfull enough. This combined with the approaches we have today of dynamic resolution and now PSSR. Also remember Rockstar has its own engine (the best in my opinion for its versatility on all fronts), it is not UE5, which has already proven to be a bitter taste on the backs of current consoles

The CPU in the Series X and PS5 is already struggling on some CPU bound games like Dragons Dogma 2 and Space Marine 2.

If GTAVI is truly as next gen as that trailer suggests then I can't see how it would be possible to run the game any higher than 30fps with all of those bells and whistles turned on.

There comes a point where the game is no longer what it was intended to be when you have to remove gameplay features to obtain a target framerate of 60fps. I don't see Rockstar making those kinds of compromises. Remember that CPU power is required for gameplay systems, not just graphics.

With the above being said, I'd love to be wrong as I intend on getting GTAVI on PS5 if they delay the release on PC by a significant amount.

 

[DragonNCM]

So it will run at 15 FPS on PS5 Amateur?

PRICELESS

 

[MMaRsu]

Sure.

If you're wrong I get to choose your avatar for 6 months, and if Im wrong you get to decide mine, good deal ?

 

[Topher]

Wouldn't they want to show it at 60fps if they could?
Plus isn't it a historical precedent set by rockstar themselves?

Trailers are always going to favor fidelity. I think the best argument to suggest GTA 6 will be 30fps across the board is the historical precedent you mention. At the same time, there has never been a generation where consoles offered both quality and performance modes and I believe this will be R*'s first game this gen. Considering 3/4 of PS gamers favor performance this gen, that may be enough for R* to change their ways.

 

[adamsapple]

PRICELESS

The funny thing is, even if it's mid 20's on the current consoles, all of us will still play it and love it regardless

 

[Topher]

The funny thing is, even if it's mid 20's on the current consoles, all of us will still play it and love it regardless

 

[PatientGamer]

DF showing their ass with this. These are the same people who were shocked that the 'weak PS5' was outperforming the Series X in so many multiplatform games. A hardware, engineering-led company like Sony knows what they're doing.

I can now see why PlayStation blacklisted DF from media blowouts and their recent butthurt videos this past week is even more evidence as to why.

GTAVI is running at 60fps, no doubt about it. It'll do it on the base PS5 just not at 4k. The PS5 Pro will run it for sure. If it doesn't, then it's an colossal waste of money they should've never even bothered building. So many people will cop a Pro just for GTAVI.

 

[BigLee74]

I mean....they were dead on making predictions about Xbox Series X, weren't they?

Did i lie though? They are probably right, and you wear frilly panties

 

[Astray]

Again, this is nonsense.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with DF or Nxgamer expressing educated opinions or assumptions, as long as they clearly caveat these opinions and make it clear what they’re based on.


In this case, it is CLEARLY obvious to anyone with basic English proficiency that they are making an assumption based on multiple data points…and they say there’s a chance they could be wrong. There is absolutely no requirement for an opinion to be ‘right’. This isn’t rocket science at all.

What should be the key takeaway here is that thanks to very modest CPU upgrades, it isn’t likely that there would exist a 60fps mode on the Pro if the base console has a 30fps target.

Call them out if there’s anything in their thought process that is overtly wrong. Some key points:

- all previous GTAs have targeted 30fps on their launch consoles
- GTA 6 trailer shows some of the most next gen footage we’ve seen, with high NPC density.
- PS5 Pro CPU is only 10% more powerful than that of the base PS5

If you’re able to dismiss any or all of these as overtly wrong or misleading, by all means, go ahead.

I just don't agree with what you are saying. Especially the part in bold.

Trailers should never ever be the benchmark for what will or will not be achieved on ANY system. Because companies have shown that they WILL lie about these things, and they have shown that they will adjust and fine-tune things like crowd density etc once they get to the Optimization phase and realize that they can't deliver on their trailer claims.

It's why we frequently get the dreaded downgrades from trailer to final product after all.

 

[GHG]

Wouldn't they want to show it at 60fps if they could?

On hardware and a version of the game that didn't exist at the time?

Plus isn't it a historical precedent set by rockstar themselves?

GTA IV was the last game that was particularly CPU bound from them.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

This is a very bold statement considering how little info they have.

I'll accept their prediction, however, if they are wrong about this considering they obviously are just guessing, this will be the end of their credibility. Bold prediction. My guess is a little more mainstream, I expect a performance mode on Pro that targets 60fps. Let's see how this works out for them. The only thing protecting their credibility now is time. If GTAVI releases with a 60fps target for performance mode on the pro, DF will be exposed for their obvious bias and piss poor intentionally obtuse reasoning.

The only thing we know so far was a tweet from a developer that they are confident that they can deliver a 60fps performance mode.

Nobody knows how much Rockstar has improved the Rage engine.

People are talking oh my good they are so many people on the beach the old ass PS5 CPU can't handle that. Nobody said that in the performance mode there will be the same amount of people. If they can't achieve a stable 60fps you have to lower the amount of people running arround.

On the other hand let's see how the pro performs.

Cerny told that 75% of the gamers choose performance mode. Hard to believe that the most wanted game of all time won't have a performance mode and most likely he talked with Rockstar what they need to improve for the Pro to achieve that.

 

[Nankatsu]

WAT?!?

so what is the point of PS5 Pro really?

 

[RickMasters]

 

[Three]

Trailers are always going to favor fidelity. I think the best argument to suggest GTA 6 will be 30fps across the board is the historical precedent you mention. At the same time, there has never been a generation where consoles offered both quality and performance modes and I believe this will be R*'s first game this gen. Considering 3/4 of PS gamers favor performance this gen, that may be enough for R* to change their ways.

It's also worth mentioning that GTA5 offers fidelity, performance, and performance RT modes so it's not their first rodeo.

 

[RickMasters]

According to Digital Foundry channel, GTA VI should only run at 30fps on the PS5 Pro, as the new hardware doesn't have what it takes to reach 60fps, requiring a “technological miracle”.



DF says that the fact that the PS5 Pro keeps the same CPU is disappointing, having to leave all the 60fps burden to the GPU and the PSSR upscaling technology. This wouldn't help CPU-limited games that focus heavily on simulation, such as GTA VI and the recently released Warhammer 40K: Space Marine 2.

Source

Kind of reminds me of the mid Gen refreshes last gen. My box one X had an amazing GPU at the time but it was still hamstrung by them jaguar CPU from the base Xbox one…same case for the PS4 pro…. And it seems it will be the same case again with PS5 pro.

 

[PeteBull]

Prolly a reason as to why RDR2 didn't get 60FPS patch for current systems either and I doubt it's performance related than it is $ related.

Any game that ran 30fps on last gen will have 0 problems running 60fps on current gen, to not look far from rdr2- gta5, it was unstable 25 on ps360 gen, stable 30 on ps4/xbone and stable 60 on current gen mashines.
And the reason is simple, current gen cpu's are around 3x stronger from last gen jaguars we had in ps4/xbone.

 

[ergem]

And they could have a mode where they choose to not heavily lean into raytracing, both for reflections and for global illumination. Or halve the crowd or car density. Or do whatever else that is needed to increase framerates. If they wanted. No technological miracle is ever needed, except have video hardware that could push out another image to a TV 60 times per second.

It’s amazing stupid DF don’t know this.

 

[mayham2199]

How many 30 FPS games only have we even had this gen? Some sort of performance mode seems pretty much standard these days. I would be shocked if GTA 6 didn't have a performance mode.

 

[Team Andromeda]

30 FPS is fine for any GTA console game, more so when one looks back at the frame rates one was playing on the PS1 and PS2 for GTA and GTA 3 respectively

 

[JimboJones]

GTA IV was the last game that was particularly CPU bound from them.

I don't think the PS4Pro ever got a 60fps mode for RDR2. But could be wrong

 

[Crayon]

You don't need special insight to know what that CPU is capable of, though.
GTA6 being 30 fps across the board is a pretty safe bet, honestly.

Especially given their track record of offering 60 fps double dip on next gen.

If you check again I basically said they don't know any more than we do.

 

[GoldenEye98]

Gonna go out on a limb and say that that GTA has more environmental complexity going on than RDR....

I think it really depends on how long this has been development. I'm convinced this game once targeted PS4/Xbox One and that the engine changes from GTA V might not be as much as we think. If so it may not be as taxing as we assume.

 

[sendit]

But it will run 60 on series S, right?

The Series S faster CPU clock (sustained BTW) will close the gap between the PS5 Pro.

 

[mckmas8808]

So now they are just making shit up based on feelings and emotions?

Sensational stuff.

Exactly! There's LITERALLY no way for them to know this yet. We don't know how GTA6 is running right now on the OG PS5.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

So now they are just making shit up based on feelings and emotions?

Sensational stuff.

You didn't realise this is what DF has been doing all along?

 

[Topher]

you wear frilly panties

It isn't Friday night yet my man

 

[Codeblew]

Wouldn't they want to show it at 60fps if they could?
Plus isn't it a historical precedent set by rockstar themselves?

Fidelity mode is more suited for a trailer since it looks better than performance mode.

 

[adamsapple]

I don't think the PS4Pro ever got a 60fps mode for RDR2. But could be wrong

No, it didn't.

One X had a 30% faster CPU than One, and even that only got a resolution bump. No performance changers.

 

[SlimySnake]

Thats only on the assumption that the base game doesnt run at 60. Im pretty sure i saw a leaked video of the game running at 60 fps on the ps5.

Yes, the CPU is weak but its not that weak. it runs at 3.5 Ghz, has 16 threads, and is roughly 7x more powerful than the jaguar CPUs. Games like Space Marine 2, Dragons Dogma, Gotham Knights and Starfield are made be developers who dont have the resources rockstar does to max out these CPUs. Just because we see a lot of NPCs doing their own thing doesnt mean Rockstar cant figure out how to multithread the CPU properly. Most games nowadays are woefully single threaded anyway. And as bad as the Zen 2 is compared to the Zen 4 CPUs, its really not that bad compared to jaguar and should be enough for massive 3000 person studios like Rockstar enough to push it.

Lets just wait and see what the base game runs at.

 

[Topher]

No, it didn't.

One X had a 30% faster CPU than One, and even that only got a resolution bump. No performance changers.

This gen has had the capability for performance modes. Last gen did not.