-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
- Status
There should be another expansion this year.
I'd hope so but after the cards in this adventure I'd predict they will take more time to rethink what cards to put into the next set.
Makes you wonder if they'll print another card that builds on the same requirements to encourage those kind of decks. Maybe a more offensive card. That would obviously screw with the Wild format but I doubt that's of any concern to Blizzard.
NobleGundam
Banned
Entomb should be set to 1 at least. IMO.
Or
Blizzard should change Entomb to place the card taken to the very bottom of your deck instead of a random place.
Yes let's nerf priest more.
Entomb is fine and they need to add some of their removal to the base set otherwise priest will keep getting entomb like cards every rotation. Entomb AND Excavated Evil are rotating out next set.
I saw more Priests than Warriors on Ladder yesterday.
Priest obviously needs a nerf, and Warrior obviously is the class that most needs help right now. /s
My plan yesterday to farm hunters to victory would have been a good one if I wasn't losing to all the Druids I saw.
Here's the classes I played:
I only lost one game vs Hunter as Shaman, the other losses were when I was playing Warrior.
Priest obviously needs a nerf, and Warrior obviously is the class that most needs help right now. /s
My plan yesterday to farm hunters to victory would have been a good one if I wasn't losing to all the Druids I saw.
Here's the classes I played:
I only lost one game vs Hunter as Shaman, the other losses were when I was playing Warrior.
what the... League of explorers rotate next standard year???
why??
--
The despair when I opened 3 legendary classic cards and all of them were repeated... I didn't even have much...
since I dust them, I have enough to get 2 legendary... I was thinking of Sylvanna... any nice mage deck any of you would recommend that use it? and may be raganaros since I have that one
why??
such a good expansion
--
The despair when I opened 3 legendary classic cards and all of them were repeated... I didn't even have much...
since I dust them, I have enough to get 2 legendary... I was thinking of Sylvanna... any nice mage deck any of you would recommend that use it? and may be raganaros since I have that one
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Keeper of Uldaman and Solemn Vigil are gonna be big losses for pally.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Finally got around to this week's brawl.
Dat free pack yo!
Dat free pack yo!
Karsticles
Member
Reno is a great card, and I say that as someone who has railed on it a lot throughout my time playing this game. It adds an entirely new deck archetype to the game. The more archetypes the game has, the more enjoyable the game is. The worst meta is the one where you always know your opponent's deck when the game starts. The best meta is the one where it could be 3-4 different decks and you have to figure out the gameplan on the fly.
I swear brawl packs have the best RNG.
Lucky you. I crafted mine.
Reno is great and great for the game. I can't possibly fathom how anyone can argue that it's a bad card. Unless the only thing you want to see in the game is aggro and Tempo/aggro decks, Reno should be held as an example of what this game can be. He might be the coolest designed card of all time in this game.
Entomb is also fine, in fact the needs more cards like it for lota of classes. More powerful removal is good for the game, not bad.
Entomb is also fine, in fact the needs more cards like it for lota of classes. More powerful removal is good for the game, not bad.
Karsticles
Member
You could also say the same of dragons and Grim Patron.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/tSBDch4983VdcAKzXqt7sL
Token Druid (me) vs Worgen Warrior (him).
This is a win where I had to out-think my opponent and find the exact moment to drop my Ancient. I also had to force out his removal early and get him to use combo pieces to keep my aggression in check.
I spent the whole game convinced I had already lost it. My Yogg was completely irrelevant, so at that point I really thought the game was over.
That wasn't the case, happily. One star down, 8 to go.
Token Druid (me) vs Worgen Warrior (him).
This is a win where I had to out-think my opponent and find the exact moment to drop my Ancient. I also had to force out his removal early and get him to use combo pieces to keep my aggression in check.
I spent the whole game convinced I had already lost it. My Yogg was completely irrelevant, so at that point I really thought the game was over.
That wasn't the case, happily. One star down, 8 to go.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Reno is a great card but entomb really isn't I agree, bottom would be fine since the priest has to work for it then at least and it gives counter play in trying to tempo them out.
Professor Lich
Member
So it all gets switched out at once? I was of the mind that things would switch one by one with each expansion to keep the amount of cards relatively the same throughout the year.
Either way, we'll know more in November. (Hopefully)
He's wrong. The rotation happens the date the first expansion of 2017 drops, not the first day of the year.
This is literally in the press release that announced Standard mode:
Which you can read here: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19995505/a-new-way-to-play-2-2-2016
We don't need to wait to find out because they laid this all out back in February.
And as far as the rotation goes, if you lose cards you like, there's still Wild mode.
Standard should keep its original spirit of upsetting the meta. What's the point of standard if they decide to keep a bunch of cards from rotating so we can still play the exact same decks for all eternity?
If anything, they should be more aggressive in rotating out archetypes. Why is Freeze Mage going to be part of standard forever? That's stupid and against the whole spirit of standard mode.
I'm personally glad that there's a time limit on Reno decks, on Patron decks, on C'thun Decks, on Yogg Soron decks... boot them all out and give us a bunch of fresh archetypes to play.
And, again, if you can't stand to be without these cards--they'll be waiting for you in wild.
Standard should keep its original spirit of upsetting the meta. What's the point of standard if they decide to keep a bunch of cards from rotating so we can still play the exact same decks for all eternity?
If anything, they should be more aggressive in rotating out archetypes. Why is Freeze Mage going to be part of standard forever? That's stupid and against the whole spirit of standard mode.
I'm personally glad that there's a time limit on Reno decks, on Patron decks, on C'thun Decks, on Yogg Soron decks... boot them all out and give us a bunch of fresh archetypes to play.
And, again, if you can't stand to be without these cards--they'll be waiting for you in wild.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I agree. Though I was also due. Had been a while since I got one non crafted!
Yeah didn't have so this is legit!
Karsticles
Member
Maybe if Blizzard decided to keep just one of their promises, and would try to balance Wild a bit.
You could also say the same of dragons and Grim Patron.
without BRM there is no Dragon archetype..
I still question the decision of rotating the whole sets out... each set has card that deserve to be in the standard
I need vod now
Professor Lich
Member
I'm not torn up about losing cards in general, it just seems odd to me to not have an equal amount of cards open throughout a Standard year.
Making up numbers, say there's 800 cards out, then a new year hits and ~450 rotate out with ~150 new cards coming in. That's 300 cards cut from the original pool. However, that does give Classic cards a good time to shine again, haha.
To me, it seems like it would be a good idea to switch out cards in tandem; new 2017 Adventure, good bye BRM. New 2017 Expansion, good bye TGT. And so on.
But it is how it is I suppose.
Karsticles
Member
Then again, rotating everything else is just an admission of how many bad cards they make.
Karsticles
Member
Even though the devs are incompetent, these things are better left to them.
Have you seen what most fans think of the game?
They are going to vote to keep Barnes and Yogg in the game forever.
Karsticles
Member
Just wait for the MMR to kick in.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The whole point of rotating sets is to keep decks changing. Keeping reno is the complete opposite of that. We have 2 whole expansions before the new rotation takes effect.
Well, I believe their plan is to do one major rebalance every year, and the one we had this year was prior to standard.
So it is too early to say that they won't try to balance wild.. but right now I'm leaning towards that I hope they don't. I wish they had rotated Moltens and the Druid cards instead of nerfing them, because at these those decks would be playable somewhere instead of lost forever. If it turns out Secret Paladin is tier one forever, than they should probably address it. But after seeing Grim Patron and Handlock and Druid and Oil Rogue get curbstomped by nerfs, I'm of the opinion that they should only nerf cards in extreme cases.
I agree that at the beginning of each Standard season it's going to suck how small the card pool is. That isn't going to help archetype diversity at all when deckbuilders have fewer choices.
After I posted that I drew nothing playable before turn 5 against a druid and lost by turn 5, coincidence? Next a paladin had perfect answers in hand every turn.
Karsticles
Member
The bolded is the ONLY thing I want addressed in Wild. I'm even fine with Dr. Boom, comparatively.
Every deck feels amazing until you play it for a few hours. Then the game code turns on you.
I think the idea Blizzard has is this: if you play a deck with a lot of new cards, you are likely to have just spent money. So they want to reward you for doing that by giving you better matchups/draws. Then, after a while, you start to play people who have just spent money, so they get better draws than you while your win-formula drops. Your frustration then is supposed to lead to you spending more money, and the cycle repeats. Since the game is ~50% RNG, everyone has a ~50% winrate unless they make consistently terrible decisions. This leads everyone to be "kind of happy" with the game because they get moments of satisfaction. Then cards like Yogg, etc., are there to push everyone toward that ~50% winrate.
As a source of income, Hearthstone is an extremely well-designed game.
I don't think they ever promised to balance Wild.
They only ever promised a dynamic/balanced meta and more exciting cards than before because they don't have to design around specific cards anymore. That hasn't really been the case.
Honestly if Blizzard was more interested in making money they would make Legendaries a lot better. Nothing makes you open up your wallet than losing to a golden Control Wallet Warrior. I have seen this happen with my eyes, a new player gets frustrated losing to a deck full of Legendaries and starts going ham on the packs.
Instead the game has the opposite issue where all the best decks don't have a lot of Legendaries. Zoo, Beast Druid, Aggro Shaman, Hunter etc are very low cost decks.
They only ever promised a dynamic/balanced meta and more exciting cards than before because they don't have to design around specific cards anymore. That hasn't really been the case.
Honestly if Blizzard was more interested in making money they would make Legendaries a lot better. Nothing makes you open up your wallet than losing to a golden Control Wallet Warrior. I have seen this happen with my eyes, a new player gets frustrated losing to a deck full of Legendaries and starts going ham on the packs.
Instead the game has the opposite issue where all the best decks don't have a lot of Legendaries. Zoo, Beast Druid, Aggro Shaman, Hunter etc are very low cost decks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think that all depends on the cards they release. I felt like OG had the most deck building opportunities compared to any other single expansion.
Lets try to look at this closer for a minute:
Standard year 1 starting sets:
Classic
TGT (weak set, still weak set lol)
BRM (solid adventure)
LOE (solid adventure)
OG (best imo)
Standard year 2 starting sets:
Classic
OG (still will be solid)
Karazhan (solid)
expansion 2 from 2016
expansion 1 from 2017
It looks the same, but it's far from the same. Not only are we getting 1 entire expansion instead of an adventure, TGT itself was a weak ass set (even without competing against gvg). So if the 2 expansions deliver the same as OG did, we may be better off than we ever were before.
I think they promised to keep an eye on wild. Like they won't do anything unless it's really broken. They never promised to balance it like if people are looking for a dr. boom balance lol.
As history has shown with this game, the more cards are in rotation the faster/stickier/degenerate the game gets.
I feel like Blizzard had the right idea in Classic to make 3 drops and 5 drops purposely weak so that you can't just outright win with a god curve. Every time they print a good card where a certain class is weak in, that class just becomes more efficient on curve.
Game gets slower, less degenerate when they remove cards. Going from pre-standard to standard, I believe average game time went up by half a turn (was still going pretty fast).
I feel like Blizzard had the right idea in Classic to make 3 drops and 5 drops purposely weak so that you can't just outright win with a god curve. Every time they print a good card where a certain class is weak in, that class just becomes more efficient on curve.
Game gets slower, less degenerate when they remove cards. Going from pre-standard to standard, I believe average game time went up by half a turn (was still going pretty fast).
way too crazy... these things are better with the devs.
If it would be for the fans, we would still have Dr Boom
Karsticles
Member
Pre-Standard, a common complaint was that anyone who didn't want to play Standard would be screwed. Blizzard was going to throw your old collection away and move on. Blizzard reps consistently said that Wild wasn't secondary to Standard, and that they would give it balance checks where needed. Then Secret Paladin is still here because Ben Brode.
Blizzard can say what they want, Wild is NOT part of their official tournament season which means it is definitely secondary to Standard.
Everyone knew that support for Wild wasn't going to be there. I would actually be shocked to see any card that was rotated out get balanced.
The mode is called "Wild" for a reason. As in wildly imbalanced non sense. It's figuratively the wild west, anything goes.
Everyone knew that support for Wild wasn't going to be there. I would actually be shocked to see any card that was rotated out get balanced.
The mode is called "Wild" for a reason. As in wildly imbalanced non sense. It's figuratively the wild west, anything goes.
People cheer when the devs fill these holes in classes that have trouble. Shaman used to struggle in the early game and everybody said they would continue to suffer as long as they lacked early game. Now their early game is bonkers and now Shaman is the bad guy.
I think Blizzard should really focus on balancing the classic set instead of leaving it so lopsided. That way they don't have to print stupid shit like Tunnel Trogg or a 4 mana 7/7.
Shaman and Hunter are terribly designed classes and will remain such until they get big changes.
You are right that people get happy when weaknesses get plugged in but they lose sight of why those weaknesses were there. I am sure in the next expansion Priest is going to get some over powered stuff and then people will complain about Priest.
There will always be a bad guy though. There will always be some class at the top and some class at the bottom. I think what most people want is that the gap be shrunk.
- Status