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Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Dragon Warrior is still a very good deck, I never said different. It's not as good as it used to be, because the meta has shifted.
No. I'll look at Vicious Syndicate report. though, which does have three Warrior decks in the top two tiers. I still think that, by definition, if a deck is the best deck in the game, and then it's the fourth best deck in the game after an Adventure releases, then that adventure hurt that deck (and by extension, the class since so much of the Warrior hate these days is generated by the (formerly) oppressive amount of Dragon Warrios on ladder.
I think as a Rogue player you are over-estimating this card. I'm sure Rogues would make great use of Fool's Bane if they were to get it.
It's still a weapon that needs you to play another card with it (Ghoul/Revenge/Ichor, etc.) in order to for it be effective against any midrange or control deck and unless you're running a Reno deck any cut you're making to fit in Fool's Bane is probably making your deck worse.
[qoute]Bolster though. I've played against the bolster lists. I think the combo is quite strong, especially since it can stack twice and hits all your taunts.[/QUOTE]
You guys are blowing my mind with all this Bolster love. I'm pretty sure at this point I'm just being trolled. It's a meme deck, and not even a very good one.
That's just correct emoting.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
My stats last month:
Warrior - 24% of all ranked matches. That's pretty huge considering there are 9 classes. Nearly 5 times as much warriors than priests or rogues. And almost 10% higher than the next highest.
One class will never be the majority. If there ever is a true majority, that means the game has gone so unbalanced that over half the matches are one class. I think the highest I ever saw was like 30% for undertaker hunter, which wasn't just my stats but hearthstats report IIRC.
I bet dragon warrior stays tier 1 though. Curator is a great include in the list. 2 of those 3/4 monkeys and mrrglton give the card potentially 3 draws. You often benefit greatly from mrrglton early on but cycling him out of your deck when you're late into the game with curator is a huge deal, guaranteeing you won't top deck him the very next turn in a close match.
edit:
I see you easily dismiss tempo storm's meta snapshot. But you shouldn't dismiss my point about it so easily. TS list is still quite accurate. I'd say in some ways it's more accurate than the reaper report because the reaper report has low numbers per deck and it is an accumulation of stats taken from rank 1 to rank 25... and who cares what happens above rank 5 when you're compiling the best decks in the game. Even ranks 3-5 is questionable.
Warrior - 24% of all ranked matches. That's pretty huge considering there are 9 classes. Nearly 5 times as much warriors than priests or rogues. And almost 10% higher than the next highest.
One class will never be the majority. If there ever is a true majority, that means the game has gone so unbalanced that over half the matches are one class. I think the highest I ever saw was like 30% for undertaker hunter, which wasn't just my stats but hearthstats report IIRC.
I bet dragon warrior stays tier 1 though. Curator is a great include in the list. 2 of those 3/4 monkeys and mrrglton give the card potentially 3 draws. You often benefit greatly from mrrglton early on but cycling him out of your deck when you're late into the game with curator is a huge deal, guaranteeing you won't top deck him the very next turn in a close match.
edit:
I see you easily dismiss tempo storm's meta snapshot. But you shouldn't dismiss my point about it so easily. TS list is still quite accurate. I'd say in some ways it's more accurate than the reaper report because the reaper report has low numbers per deck and it is an accumulation of stats taken from rank 1 to rank 25... and who cares what happens above rank 5 when you're compiling the best decks in the game. Even ranks 3-5 is questionable.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I was stopped from reaching 5 by next to nothing but freeze mages last month. Back to back got everything frozen then answered and my face frozen too.
I wouldn't argue too much with anecdotal evidence.
I wouldn't argue too much with anecdotal evidence.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Mages definitely got more popular in the last week or 2. Babbling book made tempo mage a bit higher and I actually ran into a couple of control lists that seemed pretty good. Probably still needing refinement but I'd be surprised if it doesn't turn out well from what I've seen.
SonicXtreme
Member
can i put yogg in my resurrection priest or is that bad juju? i run nexus champ instead of priestess cos i don't have priestess and the extra cards help and its good to bishop and it gives hits for pyro etc. i feel like its not that crazy since you survive really late anyway and it wouldn't be that bad from bishop or res really
You brought up Bolster first. I wouldn't list gimmick decks if you didn't start it.
I agree that your anti warrior bias is making this discussion hard to have.
Yes, Warrior was clearly the best class in the old gods meta, and Dragon Warrior was the best deck. No one is disputing that.
So far they don't have the best deck in the Kara meta.
I guess an argument can be made that it's the best class, but I'm not sure what that even means.
I guess we'll see in a couple months. If there's a big warrior resurgence, awesome. Somehow I doubt it since I don't think Hunter is going to go away.
SonicXtreme
Member
yeah i think yogg would be bitchin here the only knack is that your hand tends to fill with a lot of cards, so yogg might end up milling me to death. but id rather put my life in his hands cos hes the coolest card in the game by far. just gotta figure out what to drop. i run suggoth, kinda sucks you can't hit him with PWS or heal him or anything tho. but he tends to help against the pesky wallet warriors and zoo if you survive
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Last season is the best available info we have on this set. You can't claim warrior dropped based on stats from 3-4 days.
Half the decks you listed were gimmick though. That's why I brought up Bolster.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I mentioned bolster because protect the king is an interesting card because of bolster, since you said warrior got nothing.
I play a cheapo Pirate Warrior on Asia server and it is fun out-racing Hunters. I never considered running it on NA, though. Might be worth.
I actually went back to Discardlock and I'm up to a 68% win-rate on NA.
It's pretty gross that zoo got so much faster and doesn't have to rely on tapping as much. I'm about 100 wins away from golden Warlock so I'm pretty incentivized to keep grinding with it.
SonicXtreme
Member
what to drop for yogg im captain indecisive help
I wonder what would happen if Blizzard gave a bunch of pros 2 months to develop a game balance using all the cards instead of rotating in and out expansions, I wonder if it would be any better or whether the game is just hamstrung by the format.
Never knew that Jaraxxus triggers snipe. That's brutal.
I wouldn't mind a tournament format, as long as it was an opt in sort of thing. I think Blizzard might be concerned about fragmenting the player base though, so it might not be in the cards, but it could be interesting. Like a format that only lets you play certain cards (something like Yogg would be banned, I presume) and does let you play some that may be stuck in wild.
I wouldn't mind a tournament format, as long as it was an opt in sort of thing. I think Blizzard might be concerned about fragmenting the player base though, so it might not be in the cards, but it could be interesting. Like a format that only lets you play certain cards (something like Yogg would be banned, I presume) and does let you play some that may be stuck in wild.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Even sacred trial and repentance.
Okay so this https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/516g92/the_casters_of_onog_are_currently_missing_an/ is really neat and actually watching the game referenced here was pretty damn cool. As someone who has never been better than rank 15 watching pros play is already often fascinating if a bit confusing. It's honestly nice to see that there is are a lot more layers to the game than I'd otherwise considered.
If you play repentance then snipe and then your opponent plays jaraxxus, you win the game.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's disgusting to read people on reddit justify yogg.
"To the majority of people who play or would be interested in watching HS highlights, they're into the single serving 30 second clips where a Yogg wins the game or when a single crazy turn pulls out a win. Seeing the nuance in something is always hard for large audiences.
Explaining this line of play to someone who spends an hour or two on the game a month to hit rank 20, they're not really going to understand it. Show them a cool Yogg, they're going to be like "Oh Hell yeah, that's sick, I'm gonna craft that Yogg card.""
People can get yogg clips anywhere, they don't have to be from a tournament. Just dumb people justifying dumb stuff.
"To the majority of people who play or would be interested in watching HS highlights, they're into the single serving 30 second clips where a Yogg wins the game or when a single crazy turn pulls out a win. Seeing the nuance in something is always hard for large audiences.
Explaining this line of play to someone who spends an hour or two on the game a month to hit rank 20, they're not really going to understand it. Show them a cool Yogg, they're going to be like "Oh Hell yeah, that's sick, I'm gonna craft that Yogg card.""
People can get yogg clips anywhere, they don't have to be from a tournament. Just dumb people justifying dumb stuff.
I know it sounds dumb, but deep in there I see a point, one of the reasons I joined HS for the long run back there in april 28th was because of how funny yogg is (yeah, yeah, tournaments and meta), and that might be actually something the devs thought back then, however, banning the card from standard right now is opening a can of worms from Blizz
also, oddly enough... since back when I started, I haven obtained yogg...
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If the tournament scene withers and dwindles away, as viewership drops, hearthstone ends up being exposed much less to new players. And not to mention the frustrations of the playerbase itself. It's not a tournament only problem tbh. I feel ripped off by yogg losses as much as any pro does.
I crafted yogg. I've used it a lot. It's not like I hate the card by any means, I just think it pushes meta too much with too much variance. If tempo mage remains a top tier deck, which it might, people are going to start facing more and more matches decided by yoggsaron. I think it's going to get worse.
I completely agree.. the card itself is broken by too much RNG, but I was talking just about the part of attracting new audience, which doesn't watch a tournament, just a buddy sitting around showing him how this sick card works.
it worked, but the collateral damage is hurting more that it benefits
I think this is one of those cases where the developers (and community, to a large extent) didn't anticipate how good the card actually was before it came out. It took a lot of time to see how ridiculous Yogg is as a mechanic.
The second problem is that Yogg fits in almost any deck now. At first, a lot of people (rightfully) only used it in spell heavy decks like Tempo Mage and Token Druid. The card is starting to creep into decks that don't run as many spells now because past a critical mass of spells it can almost always guarantee a comeback.
Karsticles
Member
I think it's a great example of how Hearthstone's dev team cares more about making money than making the game good.
I'm not sure why you hate Barnes so much, its encourage some top end building.. and 1/1 is very easy to kill unlike tuskarr highroll, its lead to some cool moment for those deck, and early game help, so far its proven to not broken, its lead to some meme deck, but those meme deck sucks and exist for twitch stream
If you use it as tuskarr in curve deck like midrange hunter its very mediocre, even the highroll not really swing the game like tuskarr.
but its possible the scene not figure out the most degenerate and very consistent use of Barnes that I'll flip over it.
I don't see what's so bad about barnes.. it can summon a pretty good 1/1 minion like ragnaros, but it can also summon a pretty bad and useless minion.
the card is almost always used as a tempo play, a very good tempo play, but nothing more than that and you don't expect it to win a game like yogg.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think it's that at all. They're trying to find a balance between whats good for the casual players and whats good for the core/pro players. The problem I have with that person's post is that you don't need to be watching a tournament to find great 30 second clips, and partially even that that is what people watch tournaments for anyway.
I'm keeping an open mind about barnes. At least his effect is somewhat predictable by the player using it when they use it. When people play yogg, neither player has any idea of what the outcome is. I had an opponent yogg at 3hp, while in fatigue already and somehow didn't die. And on second thought this has happened twice recently. One time I recall the mage getting 8 armor and gang up on a taunt minion.
Back-to-Back losses due to Yogg. Clearly those Mages deserved to win despite losing on the board, being in the single digits, and having less cards in hand. I don't know why I'm still attempting to play this shitty game.
The card has no downside and it can straight up win you the game. 4 mana 3/4 + 1/1 is good. Anything above that is beyond positive. A card like that shouldn't exist on turn 4.
You guys have not been playing the Hunters that pull out Highmanes and Spider Wolfs from Barnes?
Or in Malygos Rogue getting Gadgetans or Malygos? (like Chakki did in the Grand finals of a tournament)
Barnes is also just as game winning as Tuskar, if you don't realize it by now then you need to play more games. It's about the same thing as Tuskar Totemic winning you a game off of a high roll.
Pro players want that card and Yogg banned, and for good reasons.
Or in Malygos Rogue getting Gadgetans or Malygos? (like Chakki did in the Grand finals of a tournament)
Barnes is also just as game winning as Tuskar, if you don't realize it by now then you need to play more games. It's about the same thing as Tuskar Totemic winning you a game off of a high roll.
Pro players want that card and Yogg banned, and for good reasons.
NobleGundam
Banned
This Tavern Brawl really delivers.
By that I mean if you're winning you just keep dropping legends and high mana cost creatures and their abilities to stomp the shit out of your opponent(s)...
I played Confessor Paletress + Hero Power = Inspire kicks in and summons Kel'Thuzad
Opponent concedes lmfao
By that I mean if you're winning you just keep dropping legends and high mana cost creatures and their abilities to stomp the shit out of your opponent(s)...
I played Confessor Paletress + Hero Power = Inspire kicks in and summons Kel'Thuzad
Opponent concedes lmfao
I'm climbing ladder as hunter and yes, when it pulls a nice highmane it is pretty awesome, yet it's pretty crappy when it pulls a houndmaster.. even a fiery bat is not good.
In fact I'm now thinking about sending a barnes on turn 4, because it sometimes doesn't work well and I have to deal with the punish almost immediately.
I'm still not seeing how insane it is.
call_kotaku
Member
Arcane giant actually is the one card that bothers me, just because it's a strong card that's also completely uninteresting. Even pre-nerf molten giant was a more dynamic card.
Maybe Call of the Wild because it's also completely uninteresting, but I guess Hunter needs it right now.
Maybe Call of the Wild because it's also completely uninteresting, but I guess Hunter needs it right now.
Of course, but they so easy to kill, much easier than 3-4 HP highroll from tuskarr
I'll give you Highmane, but the odd is much lower than tuskarr highroll
tuskarr highroll is like 3 out 7
Barnes curve hunter highroll is like 1 out 10, that really low and the result of highroll isn't as good
infested wolf is very mediocre barnes highroll, grandma is better result.
I don't see how you get punished for playing Barnes on turn 4 especially if it pulls out Grandmother, Spider Wolf and Highmane.
Like do people not play Tuskar Totemic because you get "punished" when you get a hero power Totem? No because even if you get the hero power totem is still produces a body AND discounts your Thing from the Deep. Barnes pulling anything but a Houndmaster is still great because you are putting out a beast that usually does something (even if it's a random ping on the board) which means synergy with other stuff.
Like do people not play Tuskar Totemic because you get "punished" when you get a hero power Totem? No because even if you get the hero power totem is still produces a body AND discounts your Thing from the Deep. Barnes pulling anything but a Houndmaster is still great because you are putting out a beast that usually does something (even if it's a random ping on the board) which means synergy with other stuff.
At turn 4, you really want to put more power tho, and 3/4 and vanilla 1/1 will made you behind if that's the only play at this meta.
When Tuskkarr get basic totem its still benefit Shaman because produce 2 body for flametongue buff, and thing from below reduction.. Hunter doesn't benefit from barnes bad roll, its can be swing turn for opponent
I'll argue these hunter dude maybe should just not play barness in their braindead curve deck. Azure drake could've better.
Man how is producing a 3/4 body and a Beast 1/1 that deathrattles into two 1/1 Beast a "mediocre" result? That's Kill Command and Houndmaster follow ups that people have to worry about because we are talking about 4 total bodies here. That's disgusting.
Why would you replace a 4 drop with an Azure Drake a 5 mana card? Barnes having a high chance to pull a beast puts it way over the top Azure Drake. I would rather play Tundra Rhino, Tiger and Kodo over Drake in a Hunter deck (unless it's some meme control Hunter deck).
In a Hunter deck, you have like a 70% chance to pull a Beast that deathrattles into something. It's more consistent than Tuskar although less swingy.
And this Hunter example is like... the lowest potential of Barnes. Malygos Rogue has a higher Barnes potential if it pulls out Emperor, Gadgetan or Malygos.. game winning stuff right here. In Tempo Mage it's quite insane too because you can pull Flamewakers, Sorc Apprentice, Mana Wyrm and all the spell damage stuff.
Why would you replace a 4 drop with an Azure Drake a 5 mana card? Barnes having a high chance to pull a beast puts it way over the top Azure Drake. I would rather play Tundra Rhino, Tiger and Kodo over Drake in a Hunter deck (unless it's some meme control Hunter deck).
In a Hunter deck, you have like a 70% chance to pull a Beast that deathrattles into something. It's more consistent than Tuskar although less swingy.
And this Hunter example is like... the lowest potential of Barnes. Malygos Rogue has a higher Barnes potential if it pulls out Emperor, Gadgetan or Malygos.. game winning stuff right here. In Tempo Mage it's quite insane too because you can pull Flamewakers, Sorc Apprentice, Mana Wyrm and all the spell damage stuff.
I don't know man, that's almost printable card right there with that result (of couse the beast tag made it strong tho), twilight guardian will block it, swipe can be good in many imagineable scenario.. not broken enough for highroll
EDIT: Now if I'm started to seeing barness highroll from tempo mage, now that just fuckitty fuck
Well Tempo Mage was a great idea until people started running Babbling Book, that sort of skewers with the Barnes draw.
I wasn't convinced until yesterday of Babbling Book was great enough to include in Tempo Mage list but today every single Tempo Mage had it and they got some crazy spell off of it that was game winning. Happened like 5 times in a row or something... I think the worst spell they got was Cone of Cold which still stalled lethal.
Tempo Mage has reached critical mass in terms of pulling crap RNG out of the ether. Babbling Book, Flamewaker, Ethereal Conjurer, Cabalists Tome, Firelands Portal, Yogg Sauran etc. Impossible to play around anything.
I wasn't convinced until yesterday of Babbling Book was great enough to include in Tempo Mage list but today every single Tempo Mage had it and they got some crazy spell off of it that was game winning. Happened like 5 times in a row or something... I think the worst spell they got was Cone of Cold which still stalled lethal.
Tempo Mage has reached critical mass in terms of pulling crap RNG out of the ether. Babbling Book, Flamewaker, Ethereal Conjurer, Cabalists Tome, Firelands Portal, Yogg Sauran etc. Impossible to play around anything.
Noo! My opponent conceded when yogg didn't save him so I couldnt play rag the next turn. I swear to god I never get to use the cool legendaries malchezar gives me.
Also I forget who here told me that first wing of Loe was worth it for my zoolock but they were so right. Holy shit dark peddler is great and that jeweled scarab might as well be " discover a darkshire councilman or imp master". Sure they'll get rotated out next year but they are a hell of a lot of fun now.
I know I can put the scarab in a mage deck to fish for secrets but what about hunter? If I make a normal hunter deck ( currently running a basterdized secret hunter ) are there three drops worth it for hunter ? I know it's a beast and can be buffed/used to trigger kill command but is it worth a spot over other things I could be using?
Also I forget who here told me that first wing of Loe was worth it for my zoolock but they were so right. Holy shit dark peddler is great and that jeweled scarab might as well be " discover a darkshire councilman or imp master". Sure they'll get rotated out next year but they are a hell of a lot of fun now.
I know I can put the scarab in a mage deck to fish for secrets but what about hunter? If I make a normal hunter deck ( currently running a basterdized secret hunter ) are there three drops worth it for hunter ? I know it's a beast and can be buffed/used to trigger kill command but is it worth a spot over other things I could be using?
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