Support NeoGAF

[Miletius]

Personally I think Yogg just needs to be less playable in all but the most spell heavy of decks. I like the idea that if somebody can hold out to turn 10 in a very spell heavy deck, then they have a chance to come back by playing Yogg Saron. I don't like it if somebody has played 5 spells the entire game and gets lucky, then they can clear your board and summon huffer (along with Misha and Leokk).

Make it so that Yogg has a minimum spell threshold trigger, and make it high (something like 12-15 spells). That would be my first suggestion to look at.

 

[Dahbomb]

Rank 5 already

took less than 50 games with token maly druid

final boss was hunter

he can't do jack against turn 6 maly, despite he clearly trying with coin highmane

https://hsreplay.net/replay/auSHZSx5jC2J2AFg438JaL

Getting to rank 5 right now this early is about as difficult as getting Legend to be honest.

I just can't get a grip on this meta right now, at least in Standard. Was flopping around rank 17-18 until I finally went back to the 'Lock. I kinda don't want to play Lock anymore because I already have the golden 'Lock.

On Wild I have perfected my Grim Patron deck that I will take to high ranks. I will probably use it until I get tilted and lose to Secret Paladin even though it's built to counter it.

 

[fertygo]

Personally I think Yogg just needs to be less playable in all but the most spell heavy of decks. I like the idea that if somebody can hold out to turn 10 in a very spell heavy deck, then they have a chance to come back by playing Yogg Saron. I don't like it if somebody has played 5 spells the entire game and gets lucky, then they can clear your board and summon huffer (along with Misha and Leokk).

Make it so that Yogg has a minimum spell threshold trigger, and make it high (something like 12-15 spells). That would be my first suggestion to look at.

this actually the best idea IMO

made it if the battlecry activated if you cast 10 spell, and the limit also 10

 

[Dahbomb]

Just saw all these interactions in Karazhan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_mq3ui1EnM

More effort went into the voice work of Karazhan that 99.99999% of people will never hear rather than Arena balance.

 

[thepotatoman]

I don't think there's a good enough way to nerf it.

You have to ban it from Standard.

I don't really care if it's a bad opinion but at least I am not calling for the removal of an entire archetype integral to card games.

You don't have to ban it from standard, just ban it from tournaments.

Any wierd Yogg RNG stuff balances out over time in ladder play, and isn't near as cancerous as stuff like Tuskar Totemic by virtue of it being 10 mana and 1 card per deck. Only problem is it doesn't balance out over the course of a best of 5. It's totally within the power of the tournament organizers to ban that card if they want.

 

[Shinypogs]

Finally back to 15. I think I need to craft another highmane for the push to 10. Maybe get lucky and open another call of the wild.

 

[Ladekabel]

Playing as a Rogue against a C'thun/Fatigue Warrior is devastating. Against every other class I would have enough burn to bring them down to 0. But Warriors have to cheat with their armour gain.

 

[thepotatoman]

Getting to rank 5 right now this early is about as difficult as getting Legend to be honest.

I just can't get a grip on this meta right now, at least in Standard. Was flopping around rank 17-18 until I finally went back to the 'Lock. I kinda don't want to play Lock anymore because I already have the golden 'Lock.

On Wild I have perfected my Grim Patron deck that I will take to high ranks. I will probably use it until I get tilted and lose to Secret Paladin even though it's built to counter it.

Every meta is easy if you're willing to play aggro shaman. I got frustrated with all my self made decks losing, played that for a 10 game win streak, and decided I need a good long break from hearthstone.

Kinda makes me miss the days when Patron Warrior was the cancer OP deck, since that at least required some small amount of skill to get a good win rate with.

 

[Ladekabel]

Kinda makes me miss the days when Patron Warrior was the cancer OP deck, since that at least required some small amount of skill to get a good win rate with.

OG Patron was the shit. Everyone was playing it because it was the best deck yet most of the Patrons I played against lost to me because they didn't know how to play the deck right. But it was so satisfying getting wins with it.

 

[zoukka]

Kinda makes me miss the days when Patron Warrior was the cancer OP deck, since that at least required some small amount of skill to get a good win rate with.

Same with Miracoli. They weren't "cancer" decks at all.

 

[ViviOggi]

There really were never that many OG Patron players even at the deck's height compared to any of the actual cancer aggro/tempo autopilot decks the game has seen over the years which would immediately infest ladder from the ground up. Patron hasn't dominated ladder at any point but was mainly a thing in rank 5+ and tournaments. In the lower ranks you'd of course run into Patrons here and there too but they were indeed worthless pushovers. The player base at large - and Blizzard - just hate combo decks so deeply that OG Patron's ladder prevalence was blown completely out of proportion until the eventual hypernerf.

 

[fertygo]

Elephant guide me BrokeBack

Should've OT title btw

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Just saw all these interactions in Karazhan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_mq3ui1EnM

More effort went into the voice work of Karazhan that 99.99999% of people will never hear rather than balance.

You can keep the arena out the game needs balance in general.

 

[Papercuts]

I'm still bummed that control warlock is prettty much dead. Handlock was always one of the coolest decks to me and renolock was a really fun deck to pilot. Seeing these 0 mana arcane giants makes me salty they killed molten so hard, a giant that actually punished going face and had reprecussions if you didn't think about their hp total.

and healbot rip

 

[zoukka]

I'm still bummed that control warlock is prettty much dead. Handlock was always one of the coolest decks to me and renolock was a really fun deck to pilot. Seeing these 0 mana arcane giants makes me salty they killed molten so hard, a giant that actually punished going face and had reprecussions if you didn't think about their hp total.

and healbot rip

Moltens were the best. They required planning from the opposing deck. Not that it's surprising why blizzard would nerf something that required planning to play/play around....

 

[fertygo]

Meh Molten nerf was neccessary because Faceless Shambler is coming

Need healbot tho

Even if they print new version of it that only activate if your hp below 15.. its would've good

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm glad for molten giant nerf. Was 800 dust lol. Plus BGH got nerfed making molten giants perhaps unbeatable for many decks.

 

[patchday]

Got hit with a Brawl quest even tho it is not even open. I cannot fathom why this is a thing

Rank 5 already

took less than 50 games with token maly druid

final boss was hunter

he can't do jack against turn 6 maly, despite he clearly trying with coin highmane

https://hsreplay.net/replay/auSHZSx5jC2J2AFg438JaL

Yeah that Swipe was devastating

 

[ZealousD]

Meh Molten nerf was neccessary because Faceless Shambler is coming

The Molten nerf was needed because of the BGH nerf.

 

[bangbang i'm a timpani]

i dont mind yogg at all. yogg helps me beat curvestone. it makes agg shamn/drag warrior/hunter beatable in some form or another.

yogg druid and tempo mage are kinda close to being able to handle those decks and a large part of that is yogg.

 

[Mirimar]

Wow, got my first 12 win Arena with a Warrior deck I thought was just so-so. Baron Geddon did win me 2 matches, funny enough. EU seems to have far less Mage infestation than NA. That, or I was very lucky with the match-ups.

 

[Dahbomb]

The new Arcane Giant makes the Molten Giant nerf seems over kill to be honest.

Oh and 4 mana 7/7.

 

[Papercuts]

Yeah, the 7/7 kinda goes against the giant being nerfed because of BGH.

Plus Mountain is the one that could drop on 4, Molten was later unless it was aggro...which is what the card was most lethal against.

I had two golden moltens so I got a shitload of dust from it but still, lol. Any combo later on with Shambler, or molten/reno/shadowflame were all later and possible to play around.

Spoiler

unlike yogg

 

[patchday]

So when you guys complain about Aggro Shaman do you mean a deck like this one where it includes Argent Squire and Abusive Sergent?

Below is the deck. I squandered my dust on Far sight for my control deck so only have 1 doom hammer. Maybe I should replace Hammer of Twilight with Far Sight lol (j/k)

 

[Pooya]

Molten Giant was a dead card against anything but face decks. It was really hard to get it out of your hand against other decks. It was the best giant, high risk high reward gameplay was good for the game and it had counterplay to think, not go face maybe. There is nothing in the game that could make you think that I should not hit face this turn.

Standard was just further aggro buff in the end. They nerfed leper gnome and arcane golem but that was nothing compared with the defensive tools that we lost. Of course they added loads of new aggro tools on top.

I feel if they hit abusive sergeant too maybe aggro decks would be reasonable. I think they're going to hit that next round, every aggro deck will play 2x abusive till the end of time just like if Leper Gnome was still a thing. It should be give +1 attack. It's pretty much a 3 mana effect card for 1 in aggro decks.

 

[bjaelke]

Wow, got my first 12 win Arena with a Warrior deck I thought was just so-so. Baron Geddon did win me 2 matches, funny enough. EU seems to have far less Mage infestation than NA. That, or I was very lucky with the match-ups.

You got lucky. And congrats.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Molten giant... only good against face decks? No. Sorry but that's wrong. I rarely played aggro decks and that card was always a very strong presence against decks I played. Whether it was that time that they had molten giants out by turn 6 or prevented my control deck from pushing for lethal, to then slowly but surely lose out to jaraxxus in the late game, the card was a very strong. And against face decks, it's not even like molten giant actually saved you anyway. Molten giants sometimes randomly saved you from an aggro deck, but most of those decks run sufficient burn to get passed, especially in classic where you had 2 mana owl + 0 mana hunter's mark, and shaman had more burn cards like crackle.

Anyway, the reason it was nerfed was because of 2 things I think. The free giant at 10 hp used to be a bigger risk when combo decks were stronger. Druid had gotten nerfed out of combo and arcane golem was nerfed. People forget that I think. Combo decks were nerfed hard over time, making handlock stronger as a result. Along with the BGH nerf.

I think handlock would be quite strong in this meta. It's not like you needed a bgh for every giant, but it was a very strong tech choice in handlock heavy metas, which kept them from being dominant for too long. And just the whole idea that molten giants in the game forever? I think even a lot of pros had the card on the list of nerf worthy.

Someone mentioned standard helped aggro? It's not like molten giant was the best counter to that anyway. It did oppress a lot of decks though imo, because now you can actually run decks that don't have the reach to hit for 14-15 damage a lot better. And it's not like slower/control warlock decks are extinct. They've managed to survive the change.

 

[sibarraz]

Which version are you running?

http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/j4ckiechans-control-mage-september-2016-season-30/

Now this one, I put an elise since I always reach fatigue with cards that couldn't save me

 

[fertygo]

With Warlock hero power you can manipulate HP very easily, Molten giant definitely not dead card vs not face deck..

Slowlock is the aggresor vs other slow deck, you can drop to 15-10 very safely to other slow matchup before reno'd

 

[Raxus]

Just got my first hatemail!

Made it boyz!

 

[patchday]

Getting to rank 5 right now this early is about as difficult as getting Legend to be honest.

I just can't get a grip on this meta right now, at least in Standard. Was flopping around rank 17-18 until I finally went back to the 'Lock. I kinda don't want to play Lock anymore because I already have the golden 'Lock.

On Wild I have perfected my Grim Patron deck that I will take to high ranks. I will probably use it until I get tilted and lose to Secret Paladin even though it's built to counter it.

Weird I was 18 the other day maybe I'm better than I think... I mean if a vet like you guys can get bounced up this 'high'.

Just got my first hatemail!

Made it boyz!

Yeah I didnt realize Hunter was so hated (at least by Priests). Will endeavor to use my Hunter more often lol

 

[Dahbomb]

Well I am rank 14 now but I was trying to use an anti meta deck (meaning stuff that isn't tier 1). That didn't work out so I just played a jank Discard Zoo deck with Librarians and Tiny Knights.

 

[LucidMomentum]

you running Thalnos?

Super late response, but I'm not running it because I don't have it lol.

Put in an Acidic Swamp Ooze instead to tech against weapons or serve as a 2 drop with decent stats when I'm up against a non weapon class.

But yeah the deck I'm using would work well with it, because then Maelstrom is a mini lightning storm w/o overcharge, and spirit claws stay at 3 damage.

 

[ZealousD]

The new Arcane Giant makes the Molten Giant nerf seems over kill to be honest.

Oh and 4 mana 7/7.

Arcane Giant is not as good as pre-nerf molten. Arcane Giant drops much later so it doesn't need an overpowered response like pre-nerf BGH.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Damn...I really try to save all of my gold and dust after an adventure comes out, but I'm dying to craft some cards. I need to join in on the Call of the Wild shenanigans. I have one but 2 is a must. I want those back to back CotW turns. Shit is so gross.

Also, what decks does Ysera fit into really well right now? Got her out of a brawl pack a little over a month ago, but have yet to really put her to use even though she's a legendary that I've wanted for a really long time.

 

[TetraxShards]

Just drafted Prince Malchezaar in Arena, which seems like the best use of him. Not only for the potential of good class legendaries you don't have but also the demoralising effect of seeing that animation the the beginning.

"Behold....the legions at my command!"

"Uh oh."

 

[Levi]

Also, what decks does Ysera fit into really well right now? Got her out of a brawl pack a little over a month ago, but have yet to really put her to use even though she's a legendary that I've wanted for a really long time.

Ysera is a very slow card, so you need a slow deck to support her. Dragon Priest is the obvious one, but that deck isn't very good. Dragon Warrior can get value out of her, but Onyxia or Deathwing are much better in that slot. Dragon Paladin doesn't seem to be good but she's another Dragon activator and a good late game card.

She's probably best in Control Warrior or Control Priest.

You can possibly throw her in decks that run Barnes as getting a 1/1 version of her guarantees you a dream card.

You could also use her in slower decks that run Curator and either beast or murloc card(s).

 

[Dahbomb]

For the record I do believe that Molten Giant should've been nerfed... but I also think that they over nerfed it.

It should've been nerfed because with the change to Standard they wanted to move away from decks that were omnipresent. People didn't want to play the same decks they have been playing for 3 years so it made sense to nerf it. Plus they had to nerf BGH so those two went hand in hand.

Except that they specifically targeted a few of the classic decks and not really all of them... it was selective nerfing. They didn't target Zoolock when it has always been present in the game. They didn't target Control Warrior or Freeze Mage. So that just tells us that they were ok with some decks always being present in the meta game and others not so much.


There's a lot of misinformation being thrown around here. Molten Giants being usable against non aggressive decks on turn 6? In what universe is this possible? You would have to be at 16 HP for that to happen on turn 6... how is a non aggressive deck taking half the HP of a Handlock on turn 6? If you tapped for 6 turns in a row from turn 1 (which is not actually feasible because you would over draw) you would STILL not have lost enough life to play a Molten Giant on turn 6. Maybe people are confusing it with Mountain Giant which is the preferred giant to play early and can be played as early as turn 4 but again... you are tapping twice for it (if going first) and essentially skipping your first three turns to have the privilege to play it quickly. I would much rather play 3 minions before turn 4 and then drop down a 4 mana 7/7 rather than skip 3 turns and play a 8/8... like it's not even close son.

Handlock is good against slow control decks not because of Molten Giants but because of Jaraxxus (and Drakes and Mountain Giants). Paladin, Priest and CW have enough removals to deal with the entire suite of threats in Handlock... Handlock wins control match ups by using Jaraxxus as a finisher. I can still beat Control Paladin, Control Warriors and Control Priest with slow Lock decks because of Jaraxxus... those match ups actually have not changed much. In fact... Mountain Giants are more potent in the control match up because at turn 4 a control deck might actually not have an answer to it (sort of like Faceless) but Molten Giants come later.


I also contest that OG Handlock would be good in the current meta. No it would be tier 3 just like current Renolock is. First of all... if you want to use the Renolock variant with a single Molten Giant... that isn't much better than current lists. Molten Giant was at its prime with double Healbots and Belchers in deck, you don't have that anymore. You have way more aggressive decks to deal with, a single Molten Giant isn't going to turn the tide and without Reno no one is going to really respect you anyway.

You will still lose to Aggro Shaman, Miracolis, Freeze Mage, Anyfin Paladin, Beast Druid, Yogg Druid, every single Hunter deck, Tempo Mage, Cthun decks, Dragon Warrior, Pirate Warrior etc.

 

[wiibomb]

Damn...I really try to save all of my gold and dust after an adventure comes out, but I'm dying to craft some cards. I need to join in on the Call of the Wild shenanigans. I have one but 2 is a must. I want those back to back CotW turns. Shit is so gross.

Also, what decks does Ysera fit into really well right now? Got her out of a brawl pack a little over a month ago, but have yet to really put her to use even though she's a legendary that I've wanted for a really long time.

Ysera can fit in a control deck, but they are usually pretty expensive decks, so I don't suggest it.

It could also fit in a Dragon deck, mainly because those decks need a big dragon at the end always, so it can fit that spot intead of deathwing, it won't work as good, though. It need further analysis because dragon decks need blackrock mountain and that already have nefarian, which is another big dragon you can add instead of deathwing.

I would suggest you to avoid jumping too early to the crafting cards, at least wait until you know you like the hunter class and how it plays, it can be a huge mistake when your realize you wasted dust in a deck you are not playing

 

[Levi]

Cobbled this Control Mage list together on EU. Don't have some of the cards on that account that I'm seeing commonly run (No Alex, no Blizzard, no second Ice Block, no second Tome, etc.) but my version has been surprisingly good.

I'm very dust poor on that account at the moment (my last 7000 gold went towards Kara and LOE) so it'll be a while before I can craft some more cards for it.

Way more fun to play than Tempo Mage. Hopefully once the Control Mage lists get optimized it'll be a viable ladder deck because I love the archetype.

Control Mage is what got me into Hearthstone way back in the day.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think you want at least an additional board clear in there plus a Firelands Portal. Especially if you have Medivh in there.

 

[Mr Cola]

Wouldnt it be great if you could veto a class or two to play against in casual, or maybe pick classes to play against, would make the game more varied when I spend a half hour trying an deck and having games decided before turn 5 vs Shamans and Hunters, who happen to make up around 60% of the games i play.

 

[Levi]

I think you want at least an additional board clear in there plus a Firelands Portal. Especially if you have Medivh in there.

Portal I can do, but I don't have any other board clears. No Doomsayers and no Blizzards on that account. I can put in Frost Nova to stall but seems inefficient without Doomsayer to go with it.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Ysera is a very slow card, so you need a slow deck to support her. Dragon Priest is the obvious one, but that deck isn't very good. Dragon Warrior can get value out of her, but Onyxia or Deathwing are much better in that slot. Dragon Paladin doesn't seem to be good but she's another Dragon activator and a good late game card.

She's probably best in Control Warrior or Control Priest.

You can possibly throw her in decks that run Barnes as getting a 1/1 version of her guarantees you a dream card.

You could also use her in slower decks that run Curator and either beast or murloc card(s).

Yeah I've been trying to think of a good Barnes deck as that's the only way I feel like I'm really going to be able to get some use out of her. Control Warrior has been failing me with all the goddamn Hunters, so I haven't played that deck for a few weeks. I don't mess with Priest too much, but maybe I will in Wild.
Thank you sir.

Cobbled this Control Mage list together on EU. Don't have some of the cards on that account that I'm seeing commonly run (No Alex, no Blizzard, no second Ice Block, no second Tome, etc.) but my version has been surprisingly good.

I'm very dust poor on that account at the moment (my last 7000 gold went towards Kara and LOE) so it'll be a while before I can craft some more cards for it.

Way more fun to play than Tempo Mage. Hopefully once the Control Mage lists get optimized it'll be a viable ladder deck because I love the archetype.

Control Mage is what got me into Hearthstone way back in the day.

Like Dahbomb said, I would definitely get a Firelands Portal in there somewhere. You just get so much value out of it combined with Medivh. Like it's fucking insane. Just earlier I got a Ravenholdt Assassin and a Psych-o-Tron.

GG's

Can't wait for that Summoning Stone to drop.

Ysera can fit in a control deck, but they are usually pretty expensive decks, so I don't suggest it.

It could also fit in a Dragon deck, mainly because those decks need a big dragon at the end always, so it can fit that spot intead of deathwing, it won't work as good, though. It need further analysis because dragon decks need blackrock mountain and that already have nefarian, which is another big dragon you can add instead of deathwing.

I would suggest you to avoid jumping too early to the crafting cards, at least wait until you know you like the hunter class and how it plays, it can be a huge mistake when your realize you wasted dust in a deck you are not playing

Well I have most of the Hunter cards, I just haven't had another Eaglehorn or CotW drop yet, so I feel like I should just craft them, but usually this is the period of time I save EVERYTHING, unless I desperately need a card....so I might just part with the dust.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Used some of the new cards to make a Beast Druid deck. Used Druid of the Claw (Charge) and Menagerie Warden for lethal (had an Emperor tick).

Stranglethorn and then Menagerie Warden seems good on curve.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Wouldnt it be great if you could veto a class or two to play against in casual, or maybe pick classes to play against, would make the game more varied when I spend a half hour trying an deck and having games decided before turn 5 vs Shamans and Hunters, who happen to make up around 60% of the games i play.

RIP Priests

 

[bjaelke]

Used some of the new cards to make a Beast Druid deck. Used Druid of the Claw (Charge) and Menagerie Warden for lethal (had an Emperor tick).

Stranglethorn and then Menagerie Warden seems good on curve.

Lethal combo in arena and since both are common, not that unlikely to happen.

 

[Pooya]

This burgle rogue was RNG me the whole game with perfect burgles. He's losing now, of course top deck yogg. My board get wiped, he get stuff too on board, there were innervate and farsight into swashburgler too, he plays that, get healing wave, arcane giant wins the joust when he' at 11! he killed himself with 14 damage because that priest spell was played by yogg earlier. I'm dying here, lmao. Karma I guess

 

[Salex_]

Competitive game folks.

 

[patchday]

Damn...I really try to save all of my gold and dust after an adventure comes out, but I'm dying to craft some cards. I need to join in on the Call of the Wild shenanigans. I have one but 2 is a must. I want those back to back CotW turns. Shit is so gross.

Also, what decks does Ysera fit into really well right now? Got her out of a brawl pack a little over a month ago, but have yet to really put her to use even though she's a legendary that I've wanted for a really long time.

Druids run her on the ladder

Yeah CoTW is worth it. I crafted it w/o giving it a second thought. My golden rule:
If people complain about a card left & right then it is worth crafting

basic mid range Hunter gets me to rank 15 normally. I usually always stop at 15 though cause I just want the gold rares. If you want to go higher than that then Idk cause I always stop at 15 so far.

I really love to experiment and try out different ideas. I find if I want to climb ladder I need to stay focused on an optimized deck which can get boring for me