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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Considering there's 3 prominent wild decks featuring a ton of secrets I'd say yes but I don't think the card is actually good against secret pally.
Out of the 8 games I played today the 4 eaters didn't make them win once.
I don't know what you're trying to say.
He is saying you were going to lose to control lock whether he runs reno or not.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
oh, I haven't played more than once against handlock in a year and I won that game. I still dislike Reno.
Yes. A good CW will try to set it up so that they can burst down Jaraxxus with Gorehowl so keep that in mind.
Karsticles
Member
Dahbomb is the man to ask about this - Handlock has been his main deck for a long time. He even took it to rank 5 last month when I challenged him...and that's not a good deck in this meta.
I like to know why they thought shit like thistle tea should cost SIX but cabalist's tome is 5 and random mage spells are actually better than 2 more copies of a random card in your deck. It's not like you'd ever want to prep the tea, it doesn't make any sense. Prep is for tempo, definitely not for having tea.
This is something you need a ton of experience with and there's no easy answer to it. It's something I struggled with a lot early on.
In the Handlock vs Control Warrior match up it's this game of back and forth where the Handlock player presents threats and the CW tries to remove while also gaining tempo off of the removal (due to the 1 mana removals). Handlock tries to pressure the CW enough where the armor is as low as it can be by throwing the big minions.
With the Handlock hero power you gain card advantage and they start to run out of answers. HOWEVER... the more you tap, the more you put yourself into fatigue. If you don't tap then you would actually lose card advantage against CW as they can remove stuff more efficiently. If you don't tap and you Jaraxxus early then you might end up not having any cards in hand because you lose the Life Tap ability. If you Jaraxxus too late... the CW can wait until the fatigue damage brings you down to around 10-13 and then finish you with weapon plus Grommash hit.
The best time to pull out a Jaraxxus against CW is you have a couple of taunts up with DoA/Sunfury and they didn't Brawl the board AND you have a hand of like 8-9 cards with most of your answers in hand. You also want to use Jaraxxus after it has gotten an Emperor tick so that you can do Jaraxxus plus Hero power on the same turn. A good CW player knows this and will always try to make it difficult for you to Jaraxxus by always presenting a threat on board.
The next level stuff is if he has Grommash or not. That's why you need the taunted bodies up, you don't want to use Jaraxxus and then get killed by Grommash. This also requires experience but sometimes you can tell if they have Grommash or not. This is why saving heals until after Jaraxxus is also important because what may happen is that they might equip a Gorehowl or start hitting your face with their weapons.
The Cthun Warrior match up is even more intricate and for me more difficult. The deck plays more minions and you need to have more answers early on. Otherwise you might find yourself in a bad position and then killed by a big Cthun. In this match up I always save my Sylvanas and Shadowflame for the Cthun if possible because I don't want the Brann + Doomcaller going off after Cthun gets played. I generally have to play a lot more aggressive in this match up. The good Cthun Warrior player will save a Shield Slam for their own Cthun so I take into account with my count of their removals.
The Renolock match ups even less in favor of the Warlock because you simply have less powerful threats. Far fewer 8/8s, one less massive Twilight Drake. You have to rely harder on your Jaraxxus to win it for you or your Nzoth.
TLDR: Use Jaraxxus in the mid late game when you have big card advantage and a board with taunts that can protect you from Grommash burst. Against Cthun Warrior you need to have a solid board in play to absorb the Cthun hits and save a Sylvanas + Shadowflame to steal the Cthun (or Sylvanas + PO). In either match up you need to play the aggressor. Don't Jaraxxus too late when you are about to fatigue, you will not have enough burst damage to finish off a CW.
As far as other match ups go. Nzoth Paladin doesn't have a lot of burst so you can Jaraxxus when in a decent enough spot (ie. not facing down a massive board). You save Twisting Nether for their Nzoth turn. Same thing for Priest only you are even safer when it comes to Jaraxxus usage... the main thing to know here is that you want to hard mulligan for Jaraxxus if you know a slow Priest is coming (which is like 90% of Priest decks anyway). You don't want them Thoughstealing your Jaraxxus, that's one way to lose a very easy match up. Anyfin Paladin is a problem because they have big burst but it takes time for them to build up to it and you can pressure them before they are able to pull it off. The key against Paladin is to bait out the double Equalities and then build a massive board with Nzoth.
are you new? do you have an established collection?
if you are new, gold works better for packs, because you get more that way, adventures work better with real money since it is an 1 time purchase, unlike packs that can be grinded with gold
Firebat with the prediction earlier this year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwsUtjyl5Js&list=PLiu-9pebM7XgEh-nFKJSnCAFeXd3Xc11c&index=15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwsUtjyl5Js&list=PLiu-9pebM7XgEh-nFKJSnCAFeXd3Xc11c&index=15
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Depends on what decks you want to build.
I'm a new player, I have the basic cards: (Hearthpwn Collection) Go through this if you have the time (or are bothered) to get a rough idea of what I'm working with. Also, any potential deck ideas would be welcome.
So only buy card packs, which ones should I concentrate on?
The issue is, I believe I have only the basic cards - so my deck-building potential is quite limited for now.
slightconfuse
Banned
Alexatraza is the next legendary I need to craft .
Wish Reno decks were a little more viable. They are pretty fun to play
Wish Reno decks were a little more viable. They are pretty fun to play
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
In the long run classic will always be around in standard. So it's probably a safe bet to focus on classic cards and buy old gods to get the commons you need. You could get some adventure cards but it really depends on whether those cards in the first couple wins are what you really want.
What classes do you want to play? That could help focus what cards you'll probably want to acquire.
Hunter, shaman, paladin for now - these seem to be easier to pick up for newer players.
The problem is, most hunter decks for example have cards that can't be crafted (from brm, or loe), which means I need to get the adventures if I want those cards.
On the other hand, I can't build any aggro shaman or secret pally decks right now since I have only 200 dust.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So quickshot is BRM and giant toad is LOE. You can probably get away with building a hunter deck without those 2 specific cards. 2 highmanes and 1 call of the wild is probably enough to make something strong, although imperfect. You can sort of compensate for 1 cotw by having a bit more early game, which may increase the chance that you play cotw on a favorable board state. Or you can replace it with another strong late game option, although few come close to it - like ragnaros. I am guessing hybrid hunter (aggressive midrange list) is probably best for you.
The good news with hunter is that it doesn't need any legendary cards to be viable. Same deal with aggro shaman and even many midrange shaman lists. Paladin might be a bit more expensive, unless it's a strict aggro list. Most paladin lists run tirion at least.
edit:
You might even go more aggressive than the typical hybrid list because you don't have access to the adventure cards. Tough calls, maybe someone with more experience in messing around with oddball hunter decks can help with more specifics.
edit2:
Back to the main point though, if you do want to run hunter, you'll probably want kindly grandmother first since that card will stick around the longest. It's not that BRM or LOE are unimportant cards, they seem easier to replace and they rotate out in about 7-8 months while kindly grandmother rotates out a year later than that. So karazhan might be a solid pick up. You only need the first 2 wings for kindly grandmother and you also get barnes as well. You also get cloaked huntress for a 3 drop if you want to try more secrets in the list.
So yeah, I think buying first 2 wings of karazhan is a pretty good route to start. Also in the third wing is cat trick which I think is a pretty underrated secret for hunter atm and it might be amazing in an aggro hunter list in the future.
I like Wild for the reason you mentioned-- all the tryhards flock to Standard. I find it fun and relaxing in Wild. And its very cool seeing all the different cards, decks, and strategies.
Other night this rogue was running Brann + Shadowcaster + Healbot. We went into fatigue and this rogue had no fear as she re-healed to full every turn. I killed her using that Wild legendary that drops lepers of all things. I filled my board with 5 or so. Then dropped Arch-Thief to get the +10/10 Artifact. After the rogue figured out I had lethal they conceded.
But that's the sort of thing you'd never see in Standard.
Granted, I haven't spent any dust on Wild at all lol. But eventually I will since I like to go to Wild when Standard makes me salty
edit- I just want 1 piloted shredder. Just one would do fine for my renolock
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Went 13-1 with Nzoth secret pally in wild today down from rank 11 to 7. The anti aggro changes have done wonders surprisingly a lot against Paladin as well.
https://twitter.com/bmkibler/status/775089612586831872
well, better luck on second try I guess. I suspect they might remove cards from this year even because yogg decks won't ever change lol.
well, better luck on second try I guess. I suspect they might remove cards from this year even because yogg decks won't ever change lol.
MistaBowaa
Member
I would quit playing Hearthstone if they started doing 1 year retirements.
Really? Most card games "Ban" cards that turn out to be OP. Doing the same for Hearthstone and forcing them into only Wild doesn't seem too bad.
MistaBowaa
Member
It is if it's a card that you base the only deck you enjoy around >.< I realize I'd probably be in the minority regarding Yogg but as a semi-casual player going from a personal best of Rank 17 to Rank 10 last month with my Mage was simply the best. If they take the wind out of those sails I'd likely jump ship.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's not really that they failed in 2016, I don't think they did, but they are aware that 2017 may not be different enough from 2016, which makes sense since they added a lot of powerful cards in OG.
Looking at the context, I'm pretty sure he was talking about moving cards in the "core" set into Wild. Not cards from recent expansions--those would probably be nerfed.
I would personally be very happy if, instead of destroying the cards with nerfs, they moved cards from the Basic and Classic set into wild.
With Nerfs, there is no way to play classic Handlock, Combo Druid or Oil Rogue in any format. If they'd rotated the cards instead, those decks would still exist in Wild.
They should un-nerf those cards (and Warsong Commander) and move them to Wild.
Time to find another game, because I think Yogg getting nerfed before Blizzcon is a lock.
The Wizard
Member
So what are the best rogue decks right now? Want to pick up the class but everything I try gets wrecked by face decks.
1. Burgle Rogue
2. Reno / C'thun / N'zoth Rogue
3. Disenchant all your Rogue cards and craft Shaman cards instead.
Karsticles
Member
I can't believe Burgle Rogue is doing so well. I figured it would be a total failure.
I played Classic Control Warrior all day (no Yogg, no C'thun, no N'zoth), and had a ton of fun, went pretty much 50% with my win rate. I wasn't tryna climb, so I just conceded vs every priest because there's nothing less fun in the world than playing vs Priest.
After I somehow queued up against three priests in a row I decided to switch to Shaman and I went 5-1.
Jesus christ there's such a big gap between playing a tier 3 deck and playing a tier one deck. The game went from pretty hard and having to think about every turn to "let's play on curve, position our minions correctly and try to remember how much mana we have available each turn and then just win".
After I somehow queued up against three priests in a row I decided to switch to Shaman and I went 5-1.
Jesus christ there's such a big gap between playing a tier 3 deck and playing a tier one deck. The game went from pretty hard and having to think about every turn to "let's play on curve, position our minions correctly and try to remember how much mana we have available each turn and then just win".
Winstreaked from rank 15 to 9 with thief rogue. The loss that shut down my streak was of course to an aggro shaman. Longest steak I've had for a long time, facing mostly shamans, hunters and warriors. Not sure how much of it is luck or the deck just happens to fit right into the meta.
Felt like I got lucky many times where deck seemed to have some magical ability to pull clutch class cards. Frequently thieved removals and weapons that kept me in board control. Twice pulled King krush for lethal, once with prep and kill command in hand for a big burst. On the other hand sometimes you get some absolute stinkers that you can't get rid of which stuffs your hand (like astral communion).
While it's very rng, it feels more like discover than tuskar rng. Don't think it's got the consistency to be competitive but it's a really fun deck to play as you're making things up as go along.
Felt like I got lucky many times where deck seemed to have some magical ability to pull clutch class cards. Frequently thieved removals and weapons that kept me in board control. Twice pulled King krush for lethal, once with prep and kill command in hand for a big burst. On the other hand sometimes you get some absolute stinkers that you can't get rid of which stuffs your hand (like astral communion).
While it's very rng, it feels more like discover than tuskar rng. Don't think it's got the consistency to be competitive but it's a really fun deck to play as you're making things up as go along.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I got just 1 card Swashbuckler'd playing Paladin and come turn 8 Tirion comes down, 1 card. Still won.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I had faith because ethereal peddler's statline and effect is really quite good and the fact it fits in a miracle rogue shell.
I dunno why levi lists it as the number 1 rogue deck in his list of best rogue decks though. That's probably quite a stretch. The more classic miracle rogue, leeroy/cold blood/conceal is probably still better. Probably maly rogue too.
A friend who started playing after I recruited him to get oracle use it too, since the basic core has lots of freeze cards they must find it awesome
And about burgle rogue, I'm having fun with it, is an inconsistent deck, but since you opponent doesn't know what you have in your hand, some logical plays will later seen as misplays for them. Is nefarian used in the deck? I use n'zoth and yogg as finishers
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
What was your decklist? I'm at like a 70% winrate rank 4-5 atm.
I see it everywhere on high rank, or legend when I watch top streamer playing so its must've working, unlike Beast Druid that totally dead after like 3 day
I can see it work because its seem just like Midrange curve deck, with you keep building card advantage.. and totally swing the game with cheap card at mid-game.
First legendary in a Brawl pack, ever. Glad it was one of the very few from Classic that I wanted but still didn't have:
my man (got this in that spectate quest but still!!)
Should I include nefarian on burgle rogue? I already use n'zoth and yogg
Lol yesterday I got a nozdormu too, and also a golden tinkmaster overspark, it was a good day to return playing hearthstone
Lol yesterday I got a nozdormu too, and also a golden tinkmaster overspark, it was a good day to return playing hearthstone
nah.. you use 2 slowass card already
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
this malygos druid deck is awesome: https://manacrystals.com/deck_guides/2198-tictac-s-legend-malygos-druid
Hunter wasn't even that bad in the time frame where he made these comments. Just before Karazhan hunter was still very high in Tier 2. Even I said something to the effect that Hunter was essentially the new version of Midrange Druid and that people would eventually figure that out.
Double Nourish and Gadgetan is super greedy.
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