Usually, yeah. It's just a game, after all.
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Usually, yeah. It's just a game, after all.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Sjow would have lost to any strong card at that point. He had basically no board, no resources, only a useless hex, and bad draws after his board was cleared. I'm not convinced that is "fucked by yogg". More like, shaman loses resource war and yogg seals the deal.
I need to watch the all 6 yogg that rekt sjow.. but that the one that linked on last post isn't so bad.. every other 10 mana card flip that sjow board.
Its the thing for yogg.. opponent just can only hoping the yogg goes wrong.. the expexted result is yogg doing no harm for them.. and you can't fault them.. everyone want to win. That game sjow run out of card. Oppoment cast yogg.. flip board that filled with 2/2 totem but he disappointed anyway.. I don't deny there's more spectacular Yogg that land much more undeserved win.. but even very mediocre yogg win can made opponent disappoint because its play around their expectation, that's not good.
Its the thing for yogg.. opponent just can only hoping the yogg goes wrong.. the expexted result is yogg doing no harm for them.. and you can't fault them.. everyone want to win. That game sjow run out of card. Oppoment cast yogg.. flip board that filled with 2/2 totem but he disappointed anyway.. I don't deny there's more spectacular Yogg that land much more undeserved win.. but even very mediocre yogg win can made opponent disappoint because its play around their expectation, that's not good.
Fringe RNG results. When an RNG card can go really well or really poorly the community tends to lose their minds, regardless of how fringe the extremes are. People love it when these cards go their way or they are watching a Trolden video, but get salty when they get shafted on the receiving end while in a tryhard mindset. The community doesn't know what it wants.
I actually like these kinds of cards anytime I am not in tryhard mode. In fact my enjoyment of the game drops the more tryhard I get. Maybe you'll like the game more if you play it more casually and don't try to grind to legend or even Rank 5 each month. Kibler laughs his ass off when he gets screwed, because he doesn't tryhard. The only thing that gets that guy mad is Freeze Mage.
Balance should go out the window and always positive clown fiestas that ignores every play prior to that card is fine because it's just a game. Okay sir. I guess you don't play fighting games. Or any competitive game. Anything remotely close to a "I win" button that you don't have to set up isn't fun to play against. Please don't try to tell me that Mage or Druid has to set up for Yogg.
EDIT: You know, can you imagine if Yogg was in a fighting game? A mechanic that triggers when you're at 10% (because people only play Yogg when they're losing) and it rolls a dice with 4 outcomes.
1: You win
2. You reduce your opponent's hp to 10%
3. Both hp are back to 50%
4. You lose.
People would be furious.
He had 9 damage on board across 5 bodies (including a taunt) and his opponent had 1 hp and 2 cards in hand. Flamestrike is the only single card in a Tempo Mage deck that could delay him from winning at that point. Maybe he could have gotten a random Frost Nova and Blizzard? What other 2 card combinations should save him and potentially flip the game in his favor in that situation?
The yogg in that game above importantly reloaded the mage on resources, which is ultimately what killed sjow. They both had no resources and yogg cleared, built a board and deathrattled it all, if that was a board clear instead he would have developed nothing and had one card, had it been a strong minion he had hex for it.
After portal he drew drake into thalnos, which is actually great in a low resource situation. Yogg is absolutely the reason he lost that game.
After portal he drew drake into thalnos, which is actually great in a low resource situation. Yogg is absolutely the reason he lost that game.
I just replace yogg with deathwing in my head then see what happens and if I should be salty. Usually not. My opponents rarely have a big hand when they play yogg, they play it to get rid of board they can't, their hand not discarded isn't a big deal at that point. Now if super yogg comes out, wipes the board then creates board and draws cards then yeah, that's bad but that doesn't happen often. It's better than deathwing usually but it rarely leaves a 12/12 on board.
I feel they remove spells to not be able to be casted by yogg, notably call of the wild or everything that creates board, those are the backbreaking ones.
I feel they remove spells to not be able to be casted by yogg, notably call of the wild or everything that creates board, those are the backbreaking ones.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Wonder when that welcome pack thing will be available.
Already have all the class legendaries from the Classic set but $5 for 10 packs+400 dust is pretty damn nice.
Already have all the class legendaries from the Classic set but $5 for 10 packs+400 dust is pretty damn nice.
it shows up along with your next quest not whenever you complete a quest, so you need to have 2 open slots by then.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Well first off, blizzard clears that board easily. Or thalnos arcane explosion. He had a couple of 2 health minions and 1 3 health minion. Why would flamestrike be required? And tempo mage can run all sorts of different spells. You don't know what list they're running or what spells they get off tome or book.
A 10 mana card should be capable of winning a game that close. His board was tiny, folded almost entirely to a single consecration. Yeah it sucks that the 10 mana card he used is heavy on the RNG, but that's no excuse to blame the loss on yogg solely. The mage positioned himself in a way to get that yogg win by slowing the game down enough to draw and play the 10 mana card.
There are gross examples of yogg. But blaming every loss from yogg on RNG, especially when it was an average and perhaps even blow average yogg result? Nah. Can't do that. He didn't even get his yogg to survive. He didn't get the huge board clears either or the amazing secrets. He actually only delayed his death just long enough for him to win.
Karsticles
Member
Kibler laughs because he's making bank while playing this game.
I only use RNG cards if it's necessary because I really don't like that kind of card even when I use it. I'm not at all confused about what I want.
I have zero understanding why you would play Hearthstone if avoiding as much RNG as possible is your goal. RNG happens in this game at least once every single turn.
Also has a large audience for his shenanigans. Can't really blame non-streamers for playing to win when the only constructed mode rewards nothing but while relentlessly crushing any experimental list.
is Cenarius worth? including the 2 classic legendaries I have, I really want to avoid him.
well to be honest I don't find much use for King Krush.. I hope I'm wrong in both cases
hallazeal is WoTOG, tho..
the classic legendary fo shaman is Al'Akir
well to be honest I don't find much use for King Krush.. I hope I'm wrong in both cases
hallazeal is WoTOG, tho..
the classic legendary fo shaman is Al'Akir
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
is there some windfury shaman or something out now? I've lost to it 3 times in the last two days.
Cenarius sees play on and off. He's a solid legendary, but not a must-have.
Call of the Wild makes King Krush look a bit pathetic.
I can't remember the last time I saw Blizzard or Arcane Explosion in a Tempo mage deck. Those spells are only played if they get it from Babbing Book or Tome.
I wouldn't say that game was close. Shaman had 21 hp and a board (Yeah it was weak, but it's 5 minions to deal with). Mage had 2 cards, no board, and 1 hp.
It's Tempo Mage vs Midrange Shaman. It's not like Mage has to crawl to turn 10. It's significantly easier to get there vs Midrange Shaman compared to Aggro Shaman.
evergreen class legs, like every deck will always play one.
1- Grommash
2- Tirion
3- Edwin
good class legs but not exactly auto include, currently rarely used.
4- Antonidas
5- Jaraxxus
6- Cenarius
7-Al'Akir
Cenarius is great in token decks. Al'Akir is ok card, but can be replaced with some other big thing like Rag easily in midrange lists that play him. Not a big deal. Jaraxxus right now is not playable, Antonidas is too slow right now to get value and not really needed. Mages don't run out of things to do right now ever, not even freeze mage plays it since torch was released but it could come back in future for sure. It's a card that goes out and comes back in often.
niche.
8- Prophet Velen. It's only good for OTK priest. eh.
Bad.
9- King Crush. 8 damage charge for nine mana, lol, hunter has been able to do much better than that in every meta.
LucidMomentum
Member
Time to finally have those class legendaries.
Wait, am I limited to just ONE welcome pack? Or can I buy multiples?
Wait, am I limited to just ONE welcome pack? Or can I buy multiples?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So what are good and fun mage lists right now?
I've been playing this today, it's pretty good and can be fun if you're into ruining other people's fun. hehehe.
https://twitter.com/LaughingHS/status/775054594040791045
I'm doing so well against druid, hunter and shaman actually and there is no warrior in sight. But freaking tempo mages can be so bullshit. This one barely played anything, just threw burn into my face, like how is that fair? I'm the one that is supposed to do that not you. Oh and random iceblocks, sure thing!
they must have changed it from back in the day then. I remember them appearing after completing quests months ago.
Here's a slower Tempo Mage list I used for a good portion of my rank 5 push for this month.
There's some fun Reno Mage decks but I wouldn't play on ladder right now. It's too frustrating when you don't draw all the cards you need to keep up with Aggro Shaman, Hunter, and Dragon Warrior.
Definitely Yogg. It's too good not to use in any deck with a decent amount of spells and if it gets nerfed, you have a potential free legendary.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Thanks for sharing. I'm laddering on wild this month so Standard is just for clearing quests and having some fun. I got enough dust to craft 1 Leg and maybe 1 epic should I craft yogg or Alex?
Edit:nvm forgot I have no ice blocks that rules out Freeze Mage
Another game I would've won lost thanks to Yogg. I like me some RNG but Yogg is too much for my taste. And it feels like it only got better over time. In the beginning there was Kripps triple sprint and now it every other Yogg refills your hand, floods your side of the board while clearing your opponents.
Only have a 2 in 7 chance of rolling the legendary I need, but it's a decent deal for 5 bucks so I'm in for it.
At this point in the game I'm torn between if I want to continue buying WoTOG packs or if I want to start saving for the next expansion. I don't think there's anything absolutely necessary from Whispers that I want and if there are some I could craft them (as long as there aren't a bunch easily) as the situation comes up. On the other hand, the Whispers collection is incomplete (78 %) compared to my other set collections (all 90+).
I don't feel compelled to buy packs, so I might go with a 200 gold saved / 100 gold spent ratio and start saving for the new expansion.
At this point in the game I'm torn between if I want to continue buying WoTOG packs or if I want to start saving for the next expansion. I don't think there's anything absolutely necessary from Whispers that I want and if there are some I could craft them (as long as there aren't a bunch easily) as the situation comes up. On the other hand, the Whispers collection is incomplete (78 %) compared to my other set collections (all 90+).
I don't feel compelled to buy packs, so I might go with a 200 gold saved / 100 gold spent ratio and start saving for the new expansion.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Are Rend, Chromaggus and Rafaam all safe to dust by now?
Professor Lich
Member
If you don't want them and have something you'd make right away, I'd dust them.
It's more like people figured out how to properly use Yogg and how to best fit it into decks.
Before people would make Yogg specialized decks where almost the entire deck was filled with spells so they could hit the biggest Yogg ever. They would wait until they have used a majority of their deck before Yogging... usually not caring about the opponent's board state.
What happened then was that Yogg would fatigue you out and just cause you to lose the game.
Then people realized that you can throw Yogg in decks that incidentally have a higher than normal spell count (which also have a solid amount of minions). You use the card as an extra comeback mechanic, not as a win condition that the deck is based around. So whenever you are behind on board or low on hand size, you just throw Yogg down. People have figured out situations where Yogg is good to play versus where he is bad to play plus how many spells you need for it to provide something worthwhile (I think 10-15 is the most optimal).
This is kinda the opposite to how the other Gods worth where you need to build the deck around the God as a win condition. If Yogg is your win condition then your deck is a BAD DECK but if your deck has Yogg as an extra late game Legendary then it's insane in it.
Play a long game as Cw vs Priest.
Have 60 HP even though they got Al'Akir off of Forbidden Shaping and resurrected it 3 times, despite a graveyard full of other minions.
They've drawn 4 more cards than I have, and we're approaching fatigue.
Looks like a win.
They play Yogg, it gives itself 11 attack and Charge, it casts Shadow Madness on my Bloodhoof and then buffs it to 6 attack, it plays Sinister Strike and Head crack and a couple other burn spells, and, worst of all, casts Gang Up on the Bloodhoof TWICE while only drawing one card.
I take 30+ damage that turn, lose my fatigue advantage, and can't immediately kill Yogg so I have to Shield Block and slam to try and find my last execute, drawing two extra cards, and taking another 11 from Yogg before I have to play two excavated evils to kill it, putting me even further behind in fatigue.
At this point I concede as I literally have zero chance of winning. Took over 40 damage over two turns from Yogg and I have two cards left while they have 7 or so if I recall correctly.
But it's okay guys, it's a 10 mana card, they're supposed to just win you the game, right? He earned that win by virtue of having 10 mana crystals.
Have 60 HP even though they got Al'Akir off of Forbidden Shaping and resurrected it 3 times, despite a graveyard full of other minions.
They've drawn 4 more cards than I have, and we're approaching fatigue.
Looks like a win.
They play Yogg, it gives itself 11 attack and Charge, it casts Shadow Madness on my Bloodhoof and then buffs it to 6 attack, it plays Sinister Strike and Head crack and a couple other burn spells, and, worst of all, casts Gang Up on the Bloodhoof TWICE while only drawing one card.
I take 30+ damage that turn, lose my fatigue advantage, and can't immediately kill Yogg so I have to Shield Block and slam to try and find my last execute, drawing two extra cards, and taking another 11 from Yogg before I have to play two excavated evils to kill it, putting me even further behind in fatigue.
At this point I concede as I literally have zero chance of winning. Took over 40 damage over two turns from Yogg and I have two cards left while they have 7 or so if I recall correctly.
But it's okay guys, it's a 10 mana card, they're supposed to just win you the game, right? He earned that win by virtue of having 10 mana crystals.
They're all fringe playable imo. Rend or Chromaggus could easily wind back up in Dragon Priest depending on the meta. I would keep them until they get rotated out. People are so quick to dust...
I hope to get Cenarius or Edwin from the deal but I'm prepared to face the mighty Milhouse Manastorm.
That's probably it but from the Mages I played against, they don't feel exactly that much different than at WotG launch.
That's probably it but from the Mages I played against, they don't feel exactly that much different than at WotG launch.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Eh, if it's between being able to play a 4th class or having 3 legendaries continue to sit around unused I'm going for the former. Forgot I had them or I would've dusted them already.
I loathe priest anyways and dust everything from it.
Rend sucks (in normal HS play). Even if you snipe a Legendary, it's not that great. Absolutely awful stat distribution... gets killed by like a 2 drop and a ping. If it was a 7/5 then it might have seen play.
I very occasionally pick up Chromaggus from Netherspite Historian against slower decks and it has served me well. There's always a huge target on Chromaggus' head.
I very occasionally pick up Chromaggus from Netherspite Historian against slower decks and it has served me well. There's always a huge target on Chromaggus' head.
If you're planning to get the welcome bundle, just wait. You could open Alex. Other than freeze mage, Alex is a must for control mage too. It's a fun deck.
From those cards, Rend is easy dust. The only time it saw play was in the 10 mana Sunwell brawl. Between Chrom and Rafaam, I'd keep Rafaam. Chrom is only playable priest and it seems really unlikely that a dragon priest deck to be any good before BRM rotates out.
Super Nothing
Member
I once pulled a win out of my ass in arena by getting Chromaggus from A Light in the Darkness and then drawing an Evil Heckler to give me 2 taunts the next turn. But no, he's not really playable. He's not even that great in most Brawls or Adventures because he has to survive a turn to actually do anything and then you have to draw something that you actually want duped. That being said, I don't like the idea of dusting Adventure legendaries because there's no way to get them back without crafting them for a net loss of 1,200 dust (+400 when DE'd, -1,600 to craft).
You can't get Millhouse. You can only get one of the 9 Class legendaries from the Classic set.
Your counters to C'thun and N'zoth would work on the average Yogg too.
Other than Deathwing, none of the other 10 mana minions you listed has an averse effect on your side of the board. Yogg tends to kill himself so it's reasonable for Yogg's effect to be stronger than the other 10 mana minions on average.
Yogg is played when you are behind on board because he tends to clear boards. You don't play Yogg when you are behind on health or cards in hand but are ahead on board.
Deathwing also has much better stats than Yogg and guarantees a board clear. Yogg tend to clear the board, but it's not guaranteed and also tends to kill himself.
Also, there is an 8 mana card that wins games from behind that only Hunters have.
Yogg is obviously strong but he's not in every deck that goes to turn 10 for a reason. In the right deck, Yogg is stronger than Deathwing but Deathwing is the better minion in Dragon Warrior.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Getting Hallazeal from Firelands portal omg.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Part of what I am trying to get across is that yogg is reliable to clear your board and draw you cards. When you only have 2 health minions and 1 3 health minion, losing that board to yogg is not only more than likely, it's pretty much expected. Lets say rag snipes an 8/8 on a 3/4 chance. That's basically what is happening when yogg deals with a 2 health board. In fact, I would say it's even higher than 3/4 chance depending on the number of spells yogg has. There are just that many AOEs that could be triggered to clear sjow's board.
And drawing cards? There is an incredible amount of card draw too. Getting a board clear and drawing cards... that's basically the only thing you can rely on yogg to do and that happened there.
I would absolutely say that game was close. Heck, if sjow didn't top deck that thunder bluff valiant that one turn, he probably had very little chance to break ice block before yogg. Even going into the yogg turn, sure it looked like sjow was heavily favored, but I would argue not by a ton when the tempo mage has a powerful minion like yogg in his deck.
That's just an example of an average yogg. Maybe you haven't seen the busted yoggs, the ones people are legit complaining about. Like a yogg who doesn't draw a single card when the opponent is fatiguing and then plays gang up. Or one that clears the board, draws a ton of cards, and creates a substantial board. When yogg clears a 2 health board and draws cards? That's average. People aren't complaining about average results, they're complaining about the busted results that wins or loses the game, like astral communion or doom on a board of huge minions.
Forerunner
Member
100 more wins for gold Hunter, but I got bored and started to play Paladin. I tried Murlocs, but they kind of suck
Is there a decent Murlocs deck? I like them, but they seem really bad compared to the other deck Im using.
Is there a decent Murlocs deck? I like them, but they seem really bad compared to the other deck Im using.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I've beaten yogg plenty of times running control decks. Some of the time I lose because I stacked the board too much and yogg drained all my resources because I put it into a position for it to succeed that way. And sometimes I even win despite that. I think going for the throat in an attempt to win before yogg hits is often the wrong strategy when you're playing a control deck.
I don't believe it's a win button. And I don't believe yogg should remain as it is either. I won't hesitate in pointing out there is counter play to yogg, the problem is when it hits the extremes.
Anyfin paladin is kinda popular. It is a control deck though. Maye not what you're looking for.
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