I think that Welcome Pack is a great deal for anyone searching for the Class legendaries. I think the only ones I'm missing at this point are Prophet Velen (dusted him twice lul), and King Krush. SoI guess not really gameplay relevant stuff. That said its still hella cheap dust.
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Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Forerunner
Member
Looks interesting enough. Definitely better than what I had. I just need to dust somethings to get Lightlord.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/n...d-get-three-epic-digital-loot-drops-9-12-2016
Buy Medivh hero, get warcraft bluray for free.
Buy Medivh hero, get warcraft bluray for free.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Free 30 days for new players only, again .... lol.
Not that I'd really play but damn.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Ahaha you don't really get Yogg till you play him. Card is so dumb.
I play it at 7 health it mind controls my opponents Ysera returns all minions to hand himself included gives me the bear trap and burns a couple cards the next time he came down he gave me 20 armor and healed me for 8, killed fandral and gave me enough power to kill the azure drake. I had no business winning that game but 2 Yoggs later I do.
I play it at 7 health it mind controls my opponents Ysera returns all minions to hand himself included gives me the bear trap and burns a couple cards the next time he came down he gave me 20 armor and healed me for 8, killed fandral and gave me enough power to kill the azure drake. I had no business winning that game but 2 Yoggs later I do.
That 30 day trial is part of the base game license so it only works for new players, you can't redeem it on existing accounts at all. It's what they sell on the store for 10 bucks or around that often. Returning players gotta pay up sub, boo. It's so bad the expansions never came with like 2 weeks trial ever, so that if I buy legion now I could play around with it now and sub whenever I have time to actually play.
I had 60+ HP and ONE minion on board against a priest who was about to hit fatigue. I have brawl in hand.
Tell me how the Priest wins without Yogg doing 30+ damage in one turn and putting 6 extra cards in his deck.
Tell me how I play around that? I never over-extended. I conserved my resources. I did everything I needed to to win that match up. The priest played poorly, drew more cards than he should have and tried to be the aggressor in a match up where reacting is the proper line of play.
I know Yogg does not instantly win anytime it's plopped down, but anyone who argues that Yogg does not steal unearned wins is just wrong.
The whole reason Yogg is in decks is because it can win games that are otherwise hopeless.
I had a game plan and a line of play that I stuck to. My opponent had Yogg.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I've played a ton of yogg and I've played against yogg a ton. I too have gotten that lucky mind control. The card needs to be changed for sure. I just hate this ideology that every time you lose to a RNG card it's both not your fault at all and that it's an example of the card being broken.
If you have a small ass board, are top decking for like 5 turns in a row, and your opponent plays a 10 mana minion... and then you lose... it's not that sympathetic.
I never once argued that yogg does not steal "unearned" wins. And I said the extreme results are problems. I've repeatedly said I think yogg needs to change, both today and many times in the past even before people started bitching en mass. I also said when the card was first revealed that it's a scary card if the stats break down well enough, while everyone else was saying this was not a competitive card and would never see play in a competitive deck.
Your line of play sounds right, because you know your deck and how it beats priest. But this priest's line of play may not be as wrong as you think. If the priest predicted (and probably did) that he could never win in a straight up fatigue fight, and played hard for a yogg win, his line of play may have been right regardless of whether yogg saved his ass or not. I think it's wrong to assume that because you're both playing control, that the one who conserves the most resources and utilizes everything perfectly wins. I've had that approach in the past and have been blown out by unlikely but game winning lines of play. Those losses were due to RNG too. And I am not saying this makes yogg okay, I am just saying sometimes you have to play toward the unlikelihood scenarios to win.
Karsticles
Member
Part of the Yogg problem is that you can't evaluate him on the same level as the other 10-mana Old Gods.
C'Thun is super restrictive if you want to maximize his presence. There is a specific set of cards that are needed to make him usable, even. You can't play C'Thun by himself - he's junk (compare: North Sea Kraken).
N'Zoth is somewhat restrictive if you want to maximize his presence. There are a handful of cards that go well with N'Zoth, like Sylvannas, Chillmaw, and Caine. However, there are so many deathrattles that you have a sound degree of customization available, and some decks are fine with not having many deathrattles (Deathrattle Rogue).
Yogg isn't restrictive at all. You...play spells. There are a lot of decks that already have a ton of spells, so you can just throw Yogg in there and he's a convenience win card sometimes. If Yogg required a specific kind of spell to buff his power, he wouldn't be nearly as oppressive.
C'Thun is super restrictive if you want to maximize his presence. There is a specific set of cards that are needed to make him usable, even. You can't play C'Thun by himself - he's junk (compare: North Sea Kraken).
N'Zoth is somewhat restrictive if you want to maximize his presence. There are a handful of cards that go well with N'Zoth, like Sylvannas, Chillmaw, and Caine. However, there are so many deathrattles that you have a sound degree of customization available, and some decks are fine with not having many deathrattles (Deathrattle Rogue).
Yogg isn't restrictive at all. You...play spells. There are a lot of decks that already have a ton of spells, so you can just throw Yogg in there and he's a convenience win card sometimes. If Yogg required a specific kind of spell to buff his power, he wouldn't be nearly as oppressive.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but that wasn't the case it was a total hail mary. I was dead to so many things even after I cast the Yogg because I was just that far behind, heck the 2nd Yogg was a hail mary again and it was even more devastating.
Also Medivh is awesome I build a mage pretty similar to Salex build with a couple substitutes for missing cards and I've gotten some amazing hits so far. Firelands Portal w/ Atiesh is such a swing. Weirdly I got the pirate goblin legend back to back but the 2nd time it was golden for some reason (no gold cards were involved)
So if you have a small board against Yogg you deserve to lose and if you play a big board against Yogg youre over extending and you deserve to lose. Got it.
People with 10 mana crystals and a card that uses all of them just deserve to win games, I guess.
And for the record, I wasn't top decking. I had enough cards in hand that I was forced to bash face just so I wouldn't burn a card.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Ya I know your situation was different. I am just saying that in a hypothetical situation (similar to salex's link of sjow losing to yogg), that not all results should garner sympathy when yogg wins the game. Such as a small ass board and you have no resources to bounce back with or to follow through lethal with... losing to yogg seems more likely than not. So if the problem is RNG and you're losing to the highest possible yogg outcome... so what? That's not yogg randomness winning the game, that is the expected outcome winning the game.
When you land a mind control on a ysera... that's extreme territory. That's why yogg sucks, because it just removed a 9 mana minion and played a 9 mana minion for you.
I never said you were top decking. That quote wasn't directed towards you. You're just taking shots at what I said out of context now?
I also never said playing a big board is over-extending. Over-extending depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes yeah playing another big minion the turn before yogg can be considered over-extending, but that depends on a lot of other factors.
Medivh is like 10 bucks though right? The WoW movie was pretty bad, so I'm not even sure I'd go in on that for like 20 bucks. I kinda want the portrait though.
I hear what Mobius is saying. That doesn't mean that Yogg isn't bullshit sometimes. But if every time Yogg comes down and you lose (you in the general, community sense) you blame it on Yogg then you're actually doing yourself a disservice. Yes, Yogg wins games. Sometimes he does in a wildly inappropriate fashion. But sometimes, people lose games not because the Yogg was ridiculous, but because they would have lost anyways if somebody cleared their board (for example). Then you didn't lose because of Yogg, you lost because you couldn't play around their out. (again, you in the community sense).
I'm all for justifiable hate on Yogg because of bullshit, but I don't also think that every case of "Yogg killed me" is also true as well.
lol, assuming Yogg decks are the only kind I play. There's only one deck in my collection that even runs him.
I'm still not seeing anyone justifying why a single card doing 30+ damage in one turn is acceptable, while destroying my win condition by putting 6 extra cards in my opponent's deck.
I don't even give a fuck that I lost, because winning in this game has no meaning anymore. I'm playing a tier 3 deck because I enjoy it, if I wanted to win I'd play Shaman and high roll people with Tuskarr and Lightning Storm.
I do give a fuck that people are defending the bullshit that has ruined the competitive aspect of this game.
I want this game to be better. I want to enjoy watching tournaments again. I want skill to be rewarded.
Yogg is fucking all of that up.
Im assuming nothing about you specifically. How much Hearthstone do you even play?
I play Yogg in several of my decks. It's stupid not to. But I'm not gonna defend it.
I don't even give a fuck that I lost, because winning in this game has no meaning anymore. I'm playing a tier 3 deck because I enjoy it, if I wanted to win I'd play Shaman and high roll people with Tuskarr and Lightning Storm.
I do give a fuck that people are defending the bullshit that has ruined the competitive aspect of this game.
I want this game to be better. I want to enjoy watching tournaments again. I want skill to be rewarded.
Yogg is fucking all of that up.
Im assuming nothing about you specifically. How much Hearthstone do you even play?
I play Yogg in several of my decks. It's stupid not to. But I'm not gonna defend it.
Yogg doesn't do that every time, most times, half the time, or even a quarter of the time. That's a fringe case. Other fringe cases include getting pyroblasted in the face, Astral Communion, drawing into too much fatigue damage, etc. Most of the time, Yogg clears the board, draws a couple cards, plays a secret.
lol
"Bro, do you even lift?"
So it's okay that it can do 30+ damage in a single turn because it doesn't do that consistently?
Should Blizzard print a two drop with the text "1 in 20 chance to deal 30 damage to your opponent?"
It's just as fair and fun as Yogg, right? I mean, it doesn't automatically win you the game EVERY time you play it, just once in a while.
Hell it barely happens at all. You just got "lucky". So yeah. I don't have a problem with it.
That card doesn't resemble Yogg in the slightest. Strawman argument.
Its very clear tho Yogg clearly very damn good at this point when the math around him is solved and spelĺ pool very dilluted.. Yogg is almost always good if he cast 12-15 spelĺ.. you just outvalue your opponent
Its just became simple math problem if Yogg cast multiple 5+ mana cost spell you won. Its massive swimg of válue.
Its just became simple math problem if Yogg cast multiple 5+ mana cost spell you won. Its massive swimg of válue.
"It's perfectly okay that Yogg can just randomly win a game out of nowhere with no possible counterplay."
Here's a theoretical card that randomly wins the game out of nowhere with no possible counterplay.
"That's nothing like Yogg."
Anyway, it doesn't matter whether the casual Hearthstone audience has a problem with Yogg or not, the competitive audience fucking hates it and Blizzard can either address that or watch Hearthstone die as an esport and lose all that free Twitch advertising from people streaming their game and organizing tournaments.
Here's a theoretical card that randomly wins the game out of nowhere with no possible counterplay.
"That's nothing like Yogg."
Anyway, it doesn't matter whether the casual Hearthstone audience has a problem with Yogg or not, the competitive audience fucking hates it and Blizzard can either address that or watch Hearthstone die as an esport and lose all that free Twitch advertising from people streaming their game and organizing tournaments.
It's indisputable that Yogg is too good and needs to be nerfed. But, it's also pretty obvious that people are turning Yogg into a scapegoat for their own poor play sometimes. This of course, isn't the case for everybody, or even the majority of players (depending on how kind you want to be to the majority). But, it's also irritating when every defeat is turned into a "Yogg did it!!!" moment. It's not always the case.
Jokingly, it kind of reminds me of "thanks, Obama." Obama isn't an angel, but he also didn't kill your puppy either. That's on you. Yogg is bad, but he also probably didn't make you lose that one game. That's probably on you.
Yogg ain't getting nerfed. Blizzard obviously wanted the card to have the smallest chance of totally destroying your opponent from full health and I don't think they have a problem of the average case of a 10 mana board clear, card draw while potentially fishing for small damage to close the game or heal to stay alive.
Yeah its funny to claim Yogg killed competive aspect of HS while in my eyes its the exact opposite.
Druid deck single handedly save tourney scene.. and most of those druid deck use Yogg
Summer HDT season is awful as shit all player use hunter, dragon warrior and shaman to competet. Then strong druid lìst came and all player use it and scene became bearable.. those druid deck is clearly played differently than other strong meta deck that just vomit same thing repeatedly.. even ramping for hail mary yogg is can be more meaningful decision making than whatever you do with aggro shaman as sad that sounds.
If you argue yogg kilĺ some competitiveness in HS. I said maybe quite frankly its just as dead without him. No one happy watching aggro shaman vs dragon warrior play on curve over and over agaun either.
Druid deck single handedly save tourney scene.. and most of those druid deck use Yogg
Summer HDT season is awful as shit all player use hunter, dragon warrior and shaman to competet. Then strong druid lìst came and all player use it and scene became bearable.. those druid deck is clearly played differently than other strong meta deck that just vomit same thing repeatedly.. even ramping for hail mary yogg is can be more meaningful decision making than whatever you do with aggro shaman as sad that sounds.
If you argue yogg kilĺ some competitiveness in HS. I said maybe quite frankly its just as dead without him. No one happy watching aggro shaman vs dragon warrior play on curve over and over agaun either.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
This should be the new yogg card text:
Battlecry: End all hope.
What it does:
Restore both heroes to 30 hp, replace hero powers with a random one, discard both hands, destroy both libraries. Replace heroes with random other heroes. Add 30 random cards to your library. Each player draws 4 cards.
edit:
Correction, instead of drawing 4 cards, you draw 8 cards. Oh, it also destroys both boards.
Battlecry: End all hope.
What it does:
Restore both heroes to 30 hp, replace hero powers with a random one, discard both hands, destroy both libraries. Replace heroes with random other heroes. Add 30 random cards to your library. Each player draws 4 cards.
edit:
Correction, instead of drawing 4 cards, you draw 8 cards. Oh, it also destroys both boards.
Any examples? Because it seems to me that people complain about Yogg because it's busted, not because they bad players.
I'm pretty new to HS, but even I know (as much as I love it) that yogg is a pretty incredible card, yes it can mess up the user, but often times it will right out win games for a player.
I don't know if trump is appreciated here or not, but in the latest video he was playing a pretty darn good discolock until the opponent played out a yogg and literally won the game. This is where it happened
I don't know if trump is appreciated here or not, but in the latest video he was playing a pretty darn good discolock until the opponent played out a yogg and literally won the game. This is where it happened
LucidMomentum
Member
Yogg-Saron
Battlecry:
This match is now a Tavern Brawl.
No more getting salty about losing!
You're being very reductive. I very clearly laid out a broader context of ways that Yogg can lose you the game in addition to what Yogg usually does to give you the idea that game states after Yogg is played exist on something of a bell curve. Your card existed only on the extremes. Not to mention there's a pretty huge difference between a 2 mana card that steals you the game versus a 10 drop.
"Hearthstone as an esport lul" is a meme as old as the game itself. Yogg is hardly the first RNG card to be controversial in the competitive scene and it certainly won't be the last. If competitive Hearthstone can survive Unstable Portal just fine then Yogg is no threat. If anything, Hearthstone is a good case study in how much RNG you can pack into a competitive game and have it still qualify as an esport. As long as the game is entertaining to watch and people like to play it, then it'll survive as an esport.
Reynad on Counterplay in HearthStone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdyTKet4A0o
Considering how he's known for being salty, it's pretty funny that all of the Game Design videos I've watched from him were spot on. I wasn't expecting level-headed and in-depth analysis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdyTKet4A0o
Considering how he's known for being salty, it's pretty funny that all of the Game Design videos I've watched from him were spot on. I wasn't expecting level-headed and in-depth analysis.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
It should a rare occurrence where Yogg is played while you're losing, so most of the games you lose when Yogg is played against you is probably because of Yogg.
It's not like there's a counterplay to it unless you're super ahead, and it's not like you can be expected to get super ahead when the rest of their deck is just a normal constructed deck.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Games you lose by playing yogg are games you probably would have lost anyway. If that's not the case you're playing him wrong.
We already have that card.
It's Holy Wrath when you hit 25 damage with Molten Giant. And odds are better than 1 in 20.
Yogg is probably closer to Last Turn from YGO in terms of how it's used.
Not quite since it was pretty easy to force a draw with last turn as long as you have a monster that can't be destoryed by battle.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Reno Jackson after an ice block is absolutely disgusting.
Happened back to fucking back.
Happened back to fucking back.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Or... C'thun... that's a single card that can hit 30+ damage. I haven't seen 30 damage c'thun yet. But I haven't seen 30 damage yogg either.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
i've seen brann 32 cthun
C'thun rogue frequently hitting 40 damage when I was playing it 2 months ago.
You don't even have to run bad C'thun cards. Brann and Shadowcaster do a lot of work. You can get 1 mana Branns, combo with blade, then save coin combo with cthun.
The deck is so fun but too bad it's not good. It's probably the slowest rogue deck there is.
You don't even have to run bad C'thun cards. Brann and Shadowcaster do a lot of work. You can get 1 mana Branns, combo with blade, then save coin combo with cthun.
The deck is so fun but too bad it's not good. It's probably the slowest rogue deck there is.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I want to try c'thun rogue, but I don't wanna drop 800 dust on blades and the stupid thing is I wasted 800 dust on grand crusaders not long ago. I should have spent it on blades.
Got a Druid quest on EU and I've never been able to do those before, as my EU account lacks any of the cards necessary for Token Druid, and, pre-standard, I didn't have any of the necessary epics for Combo Druid.
Now, though, I was able to slap together a cheap Aggro Druid list and get my quest done:
It took a bunch of iterations before I found one that I could win with, but this list I was able to beat a midrange Shaman and a midrange Hunter so it's probably okay.
I started with a much slower list. I tried Wild Growth, Wrath, Stranglethorn Tigers, Nourish, and the Curator all of them seemed very low impact.
I had to craft the Druid of the Sabers and the Savage Combatants but once I had them in, the games got a lot easier.
Not really sure about Jungle Panther or Huge Toad, but Toad contests Totem Golem and Jungle Panter gives me guaranteed Warden, Mark of Y'shaarj or Savage Roar value and it's not as slow as Stranglethorn tiger.
I never felt okay dropping Tiger on curve, so weird that the "broken" combo is too damn slow for this meta.
Positives on this cheapo deck? Win or lose, the game ain't getting to turn 10!
Now, though, I was able to slap together a cheap Aggro Druid list and get my quest done:
It took a bunch of iterations before I found one that I could win with, but this list I was able to beat a midrange Shaman and a midrange Hunter so it's probably okay.
I started with a much slower list. I tried Wild Growth, Wrath, Stranglethorn Tigers, Nourish, and the Curator all of them seemed very low impact.
I had to craft the Druid of the Sabers and the Savage Combatants but once I had them in, the games got a lot easier.
Not really sure about Jungle Panther or Huge Toad, but Toad contests Totem Golem and Jungle Panter gives me guaranteed Warden, Mark of Y'shaarj or Savage Roar value and it's not as slow as Stranglethorn tiger.
I never felt okay dropping Tiger on curve, so weird that the "broken" combo is too damn slow for this meta.
Positives on this cheapo deck? Win or lose, the game ain't getting to turn 10!
Nah, rogue Shadow stepping Reno, then using bran and shadowcaster to make two more Renos after they play the cheap second one. Meanwhile they've got C'thun and Nzoth ready to fuck you.
You don't need to run 2 1 is enough, but yeah I'm glad I opened it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wowza actually won against a Renolock in wild after my deathlord pulled a Leroy from his deck turn 5 or so he PO'd + Faceless'd it the next turn and I was down to 4. I took 26 damage from my dreadlord.
irfaanator
Banned
nobody really plays yogg when theyre ahead outside of the memes. yogg loses you a game you almost already lost, so im not sure why you keep making that point of yogg losing games where you are certain to win. The issue is that most spells in the game are one sided outside of some buffs/damage/and health. Symmetrical spells are always in favor of whoever casted the yogg outside of the fringe case of fatigue. Summon spells? always in favor of yogg, Destroy minions? almost always in favor of yogg with most destroy minion spells being destroy enemy minions/deal damage to enemy minions. No spell summons minions for your opponents and direct damage spells are always a toss up,
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I disagree with the notion that people only play yogg as a last resort or when they're behind. Sure, it's somewhat rarer to play it while you're ahead, but sometimes it is the right play. If you're trading each round but you have the intiative to trade or go face, and you know you're opponent is likely to pull ahead in the next couple turns, it might make sense to play yogg now. Doing so may let you pull far ahead with even sub-average results, while holding yogg later may require that god roll to even put you at an even footing. It's an easier call to make when yogg is the most efficient use of your mana that turn.
I think it depends on the deck, match up, and board state.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Is it normal to queue into the same player 3 times in a row?
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