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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Fixed1979
Member
Sent a request.
Priest is my least played class but I decided to try N'Zoth priest out in wild and I'm not gonna lie... It's been damn fun! Probably not the most refined deck but I've tinkered with it and it's been doing pretty well. A lot funner to play priest than play against. STEAL YOUR SHIT!!!
I know priest is a pain right now, but with the new cards in ONiK there are some very fun decks to try out, I've been trying a priest dragon deck that I've been having a blast, it is not top tier, but I actually enjoy it a lot
I was thinking they're probably not going to let Prince's mechanic go to waste and they are going to try other things with it. Like you can address a lot of the criticism these days about curvestone and power level of 1-2 drops in the game with effects happening when the game starts. Now the cards can't be anything but legendary, since stacking a start of the game effect can lead to too much consistency in decks and they don't want that, they would be absurd honestly. It's hard to balance an effect at the start of the game too.
Malchezaar is the gateway to make bigger decks. Other card game while they have a min deck size they don't necessary have a max size because it's generally bad but they still let you do it and looks like Blizzard tried to do just that. If you want it here it is but of course HS adds RNG to everything.
Like now take this, I'm pretty sure we will eventually get this, a way to get more than 30 hp. I think the card itself has to be awful to balance it. You won't put a 8/8 for 8 in your deck right? This could be a must play control card, having more time. Of course it makes shield slam a lot better though...
And I think they could print something like this for rogue but they won't because of deck consistency which pretty much they've said they don't like.
At the start of the game, add a coin to your hand. Yeah, I don't think that will happen...
There are more things you can do with the effect, like having a card draw itself at the start of the game. It's really hard to balance it but it's interesting to bring back some degree of consistency to the game.
Malchezaar is the gateway to make bigger decks. Other card game while they have a min deck size they don't necessary have a max size because it's generally bad but they still let you do it and looks like Blizzard tried to do just that. If you want it here it is but of course HS adds RNG to everything.
Like now take this, I'm pretty sure we will eventually get this, a way to get more than 30 hp. I think the card itself has to be awful to balance it. You won't put a 8/8 for 8 in your deck right? This could be a must play control card, having more time. Of course it makes shield slam a lot better though...
And I think they could print something like this for rogue but they won't because of deck consistency which pretty much they've said they don't like.
At the start of the game, add a coin to your hand. Yeah, I don't think that will happen...
There are more things you can do with the effect, like having a card draw itself at the start of the game. It's really hard to balance it but it's interesting to bring back some degree of consistency to the game.
Streaming some card game or something idk: https://www.twitch.tv/icemarker
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I was thinking they're probably not going to let Prince's mechanic go to waste and they are going to try other things with it. Like you can address a lot of the criticism these days about curvestone and power level of 1-2 drops in the game with effects happening when the game starts. Now the cards can't be anything but legendary, since stacking a start of the game effect can lead to too much consistency in decks and they don't want that, they would be absurd honestly. It's hard to balance an effect at the start of the game too.
Malchezaar is the gateway to make bigger decks. Other card game while they have a min deck size they don't necessary have a max size because it's generally bad but they still let you do it and looks like Blizzard tried to do just that. If you want it here it is but of course HS adds RNG to everything.
Like now take this, I'm pretty sure we will eventually get this, a way to get more than 30 hp. I think the card itself has to be awful to balance it. You won't put a 8/8 for 8 in your deck right? This could be a must play control card, having more time. Of course it makes shield slam a lot better though...
And I think they could print something like this for rogue but they won't because of deck consistency which pretty much they've said they don't like.
At the start of the game, add a coin to your hand. Yeah, I don't think that will happen...
There are more things you can do with the effect, like having a card draw itself at the start of the game. It's really hard to balance it but it's interesting to bring back some degree of consistency to the game.
That is basically a stronger shieldmaiden. You might run an 8/8 for 8 that had battlecry: add 10 armor. That's basically rag light lord. This seems better than that since you're guaranteed the armor, enabling your shield slam from the start too.
Super Nothing
Member
I was thinking they're probably not going to let Prince's mechanic go to waste and they are going to try other things with it. Like you can address a lot of the criticism these days about curvestone and power level of 1-2 drops in the game with effects happening when the game starts. Now the cards can't be anything but legendary, since stacking a start of the game effect can lead to too much consistency in decks and they don't want that, they would be absurd honestly. It's hard to balance an effect at the start of the game too.
Malchezaar is the gateway to make bigger decks. Other card game while they have a min deck size they don't necessary have a max size because it's generally bad but they still let you do it and looks like Blizzard tried to do just that. If you want it here it is but of course HS adds RNG to everything.
Like now take this, I'm pretty sure we will eventually get this, a way to get more than 30 hp. I think the card itself has to be awful to balance it. You won't put a 8/8 for 8 in your deck right? This could be a must play control card, having more time. Of course it makes shield slam a lot better though...
And I think they could print something like this for rogue but they won't because of deck consistency which pretty much they've said they don't like.
At the start of the game, add a coin to your hand. Yeah, I don't think that will happen...
That's way better than an 8/8 for 8, though. That's like Shieldmaiden or Ancient Shieldbearer, but you don't have to spend any mana to get the battlecry effect. It's probably a dead card when you draw it, but you already got the real benefit of it at the start of the game and you don't have to waste a whole turn playing a body that's too expensive just to get a heal. You can just hang onto it until the other player isn't threatening lethal and then drop an 8/8. There's also the chance that you never draw it and it was just a pure benefit with no mana or card cost. It would also synergize with Varian since it's a big body and you're not wasting the battlecry. I suppose it kind of works with Elise too since you get the primary benefit without actually playing the card, then you transform it into something that's hopefully more useful.
yeah, pretty much. I'm not sure how to make the card it self awful for that effect. That's a problem. Like I guess you never should want to play the body. So it has to be something much worse. You play it for the effect, just give some stats that are not desirable. That's the idea, I didn't think about it much, 10 mana 6/6. Maybe that's the worst you can make it since it's guaranteed to work everytime at the cost of one dead draw later. That's reasonable.
Tempo Mage has 1 card in hand, 1 card left in their deck and 12 health. They have a secret up from Cabalist Tome that is very likely Ice Block. (I'm pretty sure I tested for everything else.)
I have 3 cards in hand and two in my deck, 5 health and 12 Armor.
I feel like I'm in the lead and likely to win. Any minions they play, I can gorehowl, and any burn I can get out of range with Tank Up. All I need to do is let them die to fatigue, since Ice Block won't save them from Fatigue.
Of course, no game these days is ever truly won until Yogg has his say, and oh boy did he ever.
Mage plays Yogg onto an empty board, and Yogg immediately kills himself. Then Yogg draws my opponent three cards, putting them 2 cards into fatigue and dealing 3 damage to my opponent.
Yogg then casts Mindblast, hitting me for five. Then Yogg casts Mindblast again, doing another five. I'm now at 7 HP. Yogg casts Avenging Wrath, and kills me.
How fun! How interactive! How fair!
With the number of spells that Mage played (runs double book, double tome and all the typical tempo mage spells) there's no way they should have lived casting Yogg with only one card in their deck. But of course they high roll and hit me a bunch of burn spells and I'm dead before Yogg kills the Mage with card draw.
I have 3 cards in hand and two in my deck, 5 health and 12 Armor.
I feel like I'm in the lead and likely to win. Any minions they play, I can gorehowl, and any burn I can get out of range with Tank Up. All I need to do is let them die to fatigue, since Ice Block won't save them from Fatigue.
Of course, no game these days is ever truly won until Yogg has his say, and oh boy did he ever.
Mage plays Yogg onto an empty board, and Yogg immediately kills himself. Then Yogg draws my opponent three cards, putting them 2 cards into fatigue and dealing 3 damage to my opponent.
Yogg then casts Mindblast, hitting me for five. Then Yogg casts Mindblast again, doing another five. I'm now at 7 HP. Yogg casts Avenging Wrath, and kills me.
How fun! How interactive! How fair!
With the number of spells that Mage played (runs double book, double tome and all the typical tempo mage spells) there's no way they should have lived casting Yogg with only one card in their deck. But of course they high roll and hit me a bunch of burn spells and I'm dead before Yogg kills the Mage with card draw.
They are certainly going to have more cards that have actions that occur at the start of the game. I suspect things such as alternate hero powers will be done this way in the future.
I adore the card you posted--starting at 40 health is extremely powerful, though, as aggro decks wouldn't be able to kill you before you got to the stabilization turns. Once a Warrior stabilizes, aggro has no chance, they only win if they can do it early. The amount of times I lose to Hunter when if I had a few extra turns I could have turned the game around is too many to count.
No, I just come on here and bitch. I can't really complain about people using the card in their decks since I use it myself. It's too powerful not to use in any deck that runs 10+ spells. It's not the player's fault for using this card; it's Blizzard's fault for printing it.
Super Nothing
Member
You could give it a negative deathrattle like Deathlord or Dancing Swords. That way it still sucks if it comes out with Varian. It would still work with Elise, though. That would also make it strong against Priests with all of their card copying abilities since they wouldn't get the benefit, just the shitty body.
omg so glad I finished that Paladin quest (I earned 200g from all my quests and bought 2 classic packs). game took mercy upon me and granted me something I so desperately need for rogue
just need to pull Thalnos out one of these days. hope I dont have to breakdown and craft him
just need to pull Thalnos out one of these days. hope I dont have to breakdown and craft him
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Edwin was one of my first Legendaries during beta (either Nat or Edwin), haven't played a rogue deck to this day. Never got the rest of the cards needed and crafted other shit.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Even 5 armor could be broken for warrior. That just buffs their shield slams enough to kill just about anything in the early game. And it's not like you're paying much.. 8/8 for 8 isn't bad.
LucidMomentum
Member
Hearthstone players are so angry, I don't even know what he said in this but I think he was being unpleasant towards my mother
That escalated quickly lmao.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
You could argue that Malchezaar deserves to be overstated for his cost, at least for this meta.
If we're going to talk about strictly good start of game effects, you would have to go all the way to literally printing "Can't be played" on the card text. Even then, that's not really much of a drawback, because the card basically already counts as played.
Imagine a generic 0 mana gain 10 armor card that also adds a "Can't be played" card to your hand. You're still spending a draw on playing that card, and the only real drawback is it might cause hand size problems.
Now make it a "Add 10 armor at the start of the game, Can't be played from hand" and that card is made even better by giving you a free extra draw up to the point where you draw the "can't be played" card.
That means to make it fair, you basically need to make the effect worse than a 0 mana card.
so awkward getting that quest when Brawl is not even up
I still need a 2nd Preparation. All this time I've kept my gold Preparation cause its the only one I've got. Guess I'll go dust some of these other gold cards to create one.
Yeah been avoiding rogue due to not being able to climb with it when I first started. But back then I had only basic cards. It was a combination of poor man's decks and inexperience. When I tried Malygos rogue the other day it did pretty well.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You make solid points that are in line with my thinking.
How about 8/8 for 8, "start the game with 10 armor, disable your hero power permanently". Something along the lines of a real downside.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Now that's an idea that would be worth testing.
This is the idea that I have for hunter acually. To play differently finally after 3 years.
I believe this is the way, make a hunter deck that is not just about beastmastery (Rexxar) but it is about marksmanship/archers/rangers instead like Alleria. That's the lore idea behind it, hunters aren't just about beasts on curve...
Now you start with a better mage hero power at the price of not being able to play hunter's better/best cards and their synergies. You still can play animal companion and call unfortunately, I'm not sure how to get rid of those too without the text getting too wordy for hearthstone. Maybe they can add a beast tribe to spells at some point or something else.
....You also can use this card to play a much smaller deck. OpieOp.
I think the only way to make hunter not play the same game is something like this, it opens up a lot of deck building ideas finally, not I play 2 highmanes, 2 houndmaster, 2 kill command etc etc, play them on curve, I go face forever.
Like I said it's very hard to evaluate what the card should be like for a good start of the game effect. That's probably why the first attempt is like Prince, until they figure it out.
That's a bit too drastic, but I agree that it needs a down side other than the not so great stats.
I really like the idea of cards that change the rules of the game slightly , but balancing these cards is very hard.
I still think that the existence of Shield Slam makes a card that gives you armor at the start of game just untenable. Either Shield Slam needs to cost more you can get give any armor until like turn 3/4. I mean with 10 armor at the start of the game, you are basically saying: Here's the ability to remove anything played for the first 4 turns.
That said, they idea of disabling your hero power for a stronger start is really cool though. I love the idea of a mechanic that isn't appealing for aggro decks but has interesting tradeoffs for control. Lots of cool ideas probably exist in this vein. Something for each class that does something really awesome but disables your hero power is kinda awesome to think about.
Let's be real here son. Hunters will use that to make an even more aggressive deck to rush you down with. There are still enough aggressive neutral minions for that to work.This is the idea that I have for hunter acually. To play differently finally after 3 years.
I believe this is the way, make a hunter deck that is not just about beastmastery (Rexxar) but it is about marksmanship/archers/rangers instead like Alleria. That's the lore idea behind it, hunters aren't just about beasts on curve...
Now you start with a better mage hero power at the price of not being able to play hunter's better/best cards and their synergies. You still can play animal companion and call unfortunately, I'm not sure how to get rid of those too without the text getting too wordy for hearthstone. Maybe they can add a beast tribe to spells at some point or something else.
....You also can use this card to play a much smaller deck. OpieOp.
I think the only way to make hunter not play the same game is something like this, it opens up a lot of deck building ideas finally, not I play 2 highmanes, 2 houndmaster, 2 kill command etc etc, play them on curve, I go face forever.
Plus you can still play Secret Hunter.
LucidMomentum
Member
I was gonna say, class neutrals and the ability to do 2 damage to anything for 2 mana is a bit too good.
Make a Reno deck with a ton of on curve charge minions, CotW, etc and then like 15 beast cards and this, bam.
You're an aggro Reno deck with the ability to have an improved mage hero power.
Also you guys making these cards super close to optimal curve but still having these benefits is eh. If you made it like a 3/4 it might be a bit more balanced.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The discarding is the actual upside you can completely sculpt your deck to around 10 cards to win with while the opponent is dealing with actual variance.
Yeah I suspect that card is just used to create a really tight 15 card aggro deck which would be a literal nightmare to play against.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, maybe just make it activate like reno, assuming it's not too confusing to combine a start of game effect and deck building restraint.
That's actually probably the best way to do OP cards with a deck building restraint drawback in general. Worst thing about Reno's design is too much depends on drawing Reno.
Yeah that works a lot better actually. Turn your deck into wisp or something no value like that. Just throwing the usual hunter cards out. If you could add a Beast tag to animal companions
too, it would be the card to finally change the face of hunter.
Like I said I knew discard was a problem but I was thinking maybe you could use it for non degenerate means since hunter still can't draw cards.
too, it would be the card to finally change the face of hunter.
Like I said I knew discard was a problem but I was thinking maybe you could use it for non degenerate means since hunter still can't draw cards.
good lord. was playing my freeze mage and made a critical error/. I popped his deathwing- which in turn brought all my opponents dragons into field (like 4 legends). This druid popped Astral communion at beginning too. At least he used skill to win so no comp0laints.
wouldve had a chance had I've seen someone use Deathwing before.
edit----->
Man next match was a Reno mage that also played sylvannas + Alexstrasza. thank goodness most reno decks are so bad but felt like I had to kill her twice over
wouldve had a chance had I've seen someone use Deathwing before.
edit----->
Man next match was a Reno mage that also played sylvannas + Alexstrasza. thank goodness most reno decks are so bad but felt like I had to kill her twice over
It's still a cool idea for deck construction. Adding things like this (and Reno as well) make for a really interesting meta game.
I think Hearthstone might have a lot to gain by allowing people to put more than 30 cards in a deck if they wanted to. I mean there would need to be a practical maximium somewhere, but 40 or 50 cards for anyone that just wanted to be less optimal for whatever reason isn't bad. It creates more diversity in deck building which is definitely a good thing for the ladder.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You mean I can thin my deck for free while enabling my hero power to clear the board so I can hit face with my minions even more? lol... I'm certain you see the problem here
Professor Lich
Member
Unsure if related, but when I try to play I get 'All full!' but I don't get a timer.
The Battle.Net launcher is also down-ish, so maybe it's DDOS again?
yeah once bnet let me in I get the same thing
A "when the game starts" effect is essentially a "draw an extra card in your mulligan, it costs zero mana, and does the thing". Even something as innocuous as "add 3 armor" is OP in that context. For that reason, if you want a strictly beneficial effect, you would have to put a severe stat loss on the body. Or you would have to pay for that effect in some other way.
Prince Malchezaar gets away with it because his effect is not strictly beneficial.
Prince Malchezaar gets away with it because his effect is not strictly beneficial.
right before server went down was interesting a fun match. Won too- hope I got my star for the match (I think I did).
played yogg on turn 9. this guy had nothing substantial onboard. But yeah yogg really helped end that one. dont think ive ever seen him cast CotW before
edit- whew, the win counted
played yogg on turn 9. this guy had nothing substantial onboard. But yeah yogg really helped end that one. dont think ive ever seen him cast CotW before
edit- whew, the win counted
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
With elise in the format and fatigue decks being in the state they are it's difficult to see any upside with Malchezar
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