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Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
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I'm at 12 now and I have faced all sorts of decks. Hunter and mage have been the most popular.
Actually I forgot to write the word golden before Azure Drake, I already had two normal ones, but yes, it's that good.
SonicXtreme
Member
idk i see a lot more creativity in wild for sure, sans the first and last 4 days of the month. Personally i mostly use a zoo/board flood hunter with nzoth, and even though its homebrew, i can beat any of those archetypes if i get the draw. its much easier to make your own meta breaking decks there vs standard where you're pigeon holed with less stronk cards available to you.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think kibler is playing very well today. He is making many moves I don't agree with that turn out to be objectively worse than what I would have done.
For example, he played ivory knight which just lets his 5/5 trade with rather than dragon consort which would have let him bookwyrm for 4 the turn turn. Instead he bookwyrmed for 6 and the 5/1 hit him in the face 1-2 more times.
I brought it up and he even admitted that could have been a better play.
Still, kibler streams are great.
For example, he played ivory knight which just lets his 5/5 trade with rather than dragon consort which would have let him bookwyrm for 4 the turn turn. Instead he bookwyrmed for 6 and the 5/1 hit him in the face 1-2 more times.
I brought it up and he even admitted that could have been a better play.
Still, kibler streams are great.
SonicXtreme
Member
who does a lot of HS discussion on youtube? i like basically listening to discussion while falling asleep, but streams of games generally do nothing for me since i'm trying to fall asleep and not watch the screen haha. Kripp and kib, sometimes trump have good videos, is there anyone else that posts stuff that would be entertaining?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I usually only watch youtube clips if I am bored and looking through my twitter feed.
Just a random thought. It seems like Slam is used in practically every Warrior deck now. If I recall it never saw play until the advent of patron warrior where they were looking to add every cycle card available. Since then it has found its way into practically every Warrior deck imaginable.
It really is a great card. It matches up extremely well against most minions when paired with Fiery War Axe and makes a great execute activator.
It really is a great card. It matches up extremely well against most minions when paired with Fiery War Axe and makes a great execute activator.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
meh, tfb... still a sickening card. 5/5 taunts should not cost 1 mana. Basically better than giants
It was really common until death's bite. Now death's bite is gone...
It was really common until death's bite. Now death's bite is gone...
Pretty sure that classic control warrior ran it as an execute activator.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
And to remove 4-5 health minions with fiery war axe which was very relevant. As more deathrattles were added, and then death's bite... the card became redundant and less useful. Death's bite let them deal with 5 health minions easily and slam wasn't worth much vs piloted shredder.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Piloted Shredder into Doomsayer GG no re is my favourite kind of RNG.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Not all RNG is bad RNG. I've gone into length with previous posts but in essence bad rng is both when the variance is really high and when the RNG is not controllable by either player.
I'd say Dr. boom was perhaps most offensive in the pre-standard era. And even that card you could control the outcome, although the variance was very high. It's probably tied with shredder, but I think neither of these cards are as bad as yogg or tuskar totemic. Shredder could be controlled fairly well imo, but still pretty bad.
Despite there being RNG cards, there was still a ton of room for skill right? If you accept this, then maybe this makes sense. The new sets shrunk that room for skill, making it fall into what he considers luck based.
Perhaps he is arguing they crossed the line. Maybe that is true. I think there are problematic cards for certain, but it depends on what he means by luck based. Does he mean there is more than 50% luck to determine the outcome of a match? If so, that's insanely wrong. But does he mean the game is just in the worst spot it's been in terms of luck vs skill, not saying that skill can't carry you but he is saying that luck does more than we all would like... I can get on board with that statement.
Yeah pilotted shredder is on the list, but at least there actually was a good amount of control over how this minion impacted the game. You could position it, you could force them to pop it, you could pop it yourself, it could just be silenced... it wasn't an immediate 3 mana minion that summons you a 6 mana minion instead of a 3 mana minion 3/7 times. The delay is what made this card almost acceptable. Getting doomsayer... sometimes determined a game. But I think that was extremely rare.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's true the game has become less about manipulating RNG. More often than not you just take your chance you can't really influence.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Maybe they could balance tuskar totemic by making it deathrattle instead lol. If you think about it, battlecry actually does seem out of place. Maybe they really wanted to push rumbling elemental.
I think there's an argument that the current RNG, which is largely rolling for random spells and minions could be less frustrating than feeling you lost to a direct coin flip with stuff like Dr Boom and Crackle. I think the problem with current RNG is when there is an obvious best result like with Tuskarr Totemic.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The sad thing is that ESL has a minion that summons a random animal. Could be a 1/2 or could be a 4/4 with charge. At least it costs 6 mana and only summons a 3/4, which is like a 3 mana minion in the game, perhaps the average 3 mana minion is worth about 3/4 of stats. Sometimes you get a 4/4 with charge which is a 5 mana minion in the game. I haven't actually seen anyone play the card yet, I think it might be underwhelming for a 6 drop.
Watch, Shaman is just going to get like 3 meh totems. Just give a few with detrimental death rattles, and it could even things up. Explosive Totem, Battlecry deal 1 damage to enemy minions, deathrattle, Deal 2 damage to your minions.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
3-0 with this deck lol... I just beat a zoolock.
Turn 1: coin Druid of the Saber (stealthed 3/2)
Turn 2: Mark of Y'Shaarj (plus 2/2 on the Saber)
Turn 3: Double Living Roots
Turn 4: Savage Roar/innervate/Savage Roar for lethal.
Saw the lethal and took it. Had the concede menu open in case my Druid opponent had swipe for a full clear.
Turn 2: Mark of Y'Shaarj (plus 2/2 on the Saber)
Turn 3: Double Living Roots
Turn 4: Savage Roar/innervate/Savage Roar for lethal.
Saw the lethal and took it. Had the concede menu open in case my Druid opponent had swipe for a full clear.
ChanmanV on Youtube hosts Value Town which is basically like a podcast where you don't really have to look at the screen for anything - https://www.youtube.com/user/ChanmanV
They top my list as the flat out worst designed RNG cards ever printed. There's good RNG, mediocre RNG, bad RNG, and then there's fucking horrible Crackle and Implosion RNG.
when it works it is wonderful, but it is easy to not have the correct cards and it fails so miserably.
Kinda like how discolock works
Analysis of post ban Arena by Heartharena.
TLDR: Mage is now #1 by the widest margin it has ever been. Shaman now #3. Paladin dropped to mid tier. The rest is the same stuff as always with Priest being the worst by a wide margin still.
Fireland Portals is performing above Flamestrike and is approaching Dr Balanced tier for Arena. Yes you heard that right... Mages now have a card nearly on par with Dr Balanced that occurs at 6 times the normal rate in Arena.
TLDR: Mage is now #1 by the widest margin it has ever been. Shaman now #3. Paladin dropped to mid tier. The rest is the same stuff as always with Priest being the worst by a wide margin still.
Fireland Portals is performing above Flamestrike and is approaching Dr Balanced tier for Arena. Yes you heard that right... Mages now have a card nearly on par with Dr Balanced that occurs at 6 times the normal rate in Arena.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Man, I'd love it if Blizzard would wake the fuck up and finally change Warlock's hero power so we could get other archetypes that aren't "draw twice as much as your opponent and vomit everything on the board."
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Umm.... handlock? control lock? dragon lock? reno lock? n'zoth lock?
It's been months since I heard someone complain about warlock hero power.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I don't know what you're playing but none of those archetypes have existed with any semblance of regularity for months now.
I mean it's not like Handlock was much different anyway. It was essentially draw twice as much as your opponent and play overpowered cards every turn. Then when the majority of those broken cards went away, Handlock went with it.
Warlock's hero power is busted. It always has been and it always will be.
Blizzard would improve the game by a ton if they redesigned the Shaman and Hunter hero powers.
Zoolock power is more in the cards they keep giving them compared to the hero power. They have gotten like half a dozen strong Zoo cards in the last two expansions (Forbidden Ritual, Councilman, Malch Imp, Silverware Golem, Possessed Villager etc). Zoo wouldn't be as strong if you couldn't play like 14 1 mana cards in the deck.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't even know what to say if you think handlock was not much different. That is just an incredibly wrong opinion to have. And I saw more slower warlock decks today than I did zoo. And I've seen them in tournaments being played as well, several variations... some with reno and some without.
I think zoolock's power increase via the new cards fell way below expectations. I mean, yeah when you get crazy discards off you're doing great. But it doesn't even seem much stronger than normal zoo and I doubt their match ups are much different if at all.
Yes my god. Implosion is one of the most frustrating cards in the game and Crackle as well but to a lesser degree (although its still way up there).
Implosion because of the tempo power of removal and adding a bunch of useful minions which could be deal 4 damage summon 4/4 worth of imps for 4 mana (INSANE) or deal 2 damage and summon 2/2 worth of imps for 4 mana (lol trash tier).
The difference in outcomes is so vast there that the card should be two different cards with different costs. The average isn't a fair way to view the card.
3-0 with this deck lol... I just beat a zoolock.
Deck feels odd. Curator seems pretty low value, you run no Beasts or Murlocs. Brann also feels a bit lack luster, do you have him just to use turn 9/10 for a combo with Ivory Knight/Drake? It looks like your only real win condition is to get good RNG with Malchezaar.
Every Zoo uses Malchazaar's Imp. Silverware Golem is the card that sometimes gets used, sometimes doesn't.
The Zoo deck list is essentially refined to be this list:
http://i.imgur.com/pfMD375.png
Like a quarter of those cards are cards that they got in WoG + Karazhan. That was the point I was making.
There are far less slower Warlock decks than Zoo decks on Ladder, like this can hardly even be debated based on stats. Zoo has performed far better in tournaments than slower Lock decks with far higher usage. Saying you have seen them in tournaments is like saying you have seen Control Shaman or Freeze Mage in tournaments (hell even Priest). People bring 4-5 decks to these tournaments, you have the luxury to bring some off meta decks to counter specific decks. Slow Warlock decks are only really playable these days as a means to counter slow Warrior and Paladin decks and that's still a big gamble to take.
No non Zoo Warlock deck is tier 2 or better at the moment. And I am not saying this because I looked at some tier lists, the difference in power level, what people are playing online and the match ups should make it as clear as day. People are experimenting with dank Dragon Warlock decks to try to throw off people with what you are actually playing but the second one list sticks for more than a week, it gets figured out and get blown up.
Say they actually do come up with their tools to influence draft % in a year, who actually expects Team 5 to operate them in any worthwhile capacity? They've actively made arena worse with every single expansion by printing dozens of cards the most middling arena player could tell them shouldn't be common. And in fact they do have one tool besides just ripping cards out of draft: the offering bonus, and the last thing they did with that is crank it up for no apparent reason only to boost Mage beyond comprehension.
Jay Wilson this man already
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I never said slower lock decks were more popular than zoolock. I just contested the idea that zoolock is the only lock decks run in hearthstone, which has never been true and still remains false. I wasn't even arguing over the power level of these decks, just stating that warlock is not always zoolock, never has been. The point I was making about them being at tournaments is to show that these decks not only exist, but are consistent enough to be brought by some of the best players in the game to serious tournaments.
In regards to zoolock, my only point was that the power increase that zoo got from karazhan is much lower than I expected. I never thought discard lock would be great, at least not great enough to replace a traditional zoo list.
Malchezzar thickens your deck by 5 draws. That means I am 5 draws longer before I hit fatigue. That by extension means my first 5 draws into fatigue do 15 damage instead of 40. So I basically start 25 hp ahead of my opponent when the game goes to fatigue. In short, my primary win condition is fatigue.
Since my early game is much more robust than your typical control paladin list, I can better contest the board early game to keep my opponent responding to what I am doing. This pressure transitions into strong late games.
Brann is for ivory knight, abusive sergeant, curator, azure drake, whatever pops into my deck. It's worth it imo.
Curator has consistently performed well. I usually get 2 draws off it. I'm happy with even one in this kind of list. The deathwing I used to win the game, I got off of curator drawing it. I occasionally get mrrgglton and a beast due to malch rng. But I have never failed a single time to get a dragon, there are a lot of legendary dragon cards... like 10 at least.
I also want to note that these dragon legendary cards are all powerful large minions. Fishing for them is much higher value than drawing 1 card off say an azure drake. Since my deck is thicker, fishing for a large dragon like alexstrasza or deathwing is even worth more I'd say. So yeah, I am frankly okay if I only get a single dragon draw.
And that's essentially the biggest Tavern Brawl flaw right now. They've sucked all fun out of it in favour of gold farming.
Smooth Operator
Member
App store reviews are the best.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Just had a 23 minute long match vs control warrior with my malchezzar paladin. I felt in control the entire game. I pressured out all his removal early on due to stronger early game pressure I could produce. Despite his hero power I won in fatigue. I could probably fit justicar trueheart in it fine for those mirror matches, although I'm not certain how great it is nowadays without the threat of quartermaster to back it up.
Brann + ivory knight was a crazy good combo. I got me equality and avenging wrath... and malchezzar got me pretty good cards plus deathwing which was the final nail in the coffin, although I could have played differently and won if I had to.
I'll probably end up cutting acolyte of pain, definitely down to 1. It's a tough card to play when you're trying to avoid the possibility of overdraw. It's great on turn 3 but otherwise it can be tough to make worthwhile. Maybe I'll use murloc knights.
I also might run elise, although it doesn't feel necessary for paladin. Never has felt necessary imho.
edit:
Also, pretty disgusting how yogg has made it's way into some control warrior lists. I've watched rosty run it and it's actually good. But to face it myself, 20 minute match potentially decided by a busted yogg? Meh. Fortunately he didn't get counter spell, although I played around it to great cost of my deck left over (played tracking I got off saarad). I think it was ice block, but ice armor was potentially really bad as well as I risked 1/4 chance it was that to get lethal with the next fatigue tick.
Brann + ivory knight was a crazy good combo. I got me equality and avenging wrath... and malchezzar got me pretty good cards plus deathwing which was the final nail in the coffin, although I could have played differently and won if I had to.
I'll probably end up cutting acolyte of pain, definitely down to 1. It's a tough card to play when you're trying to avoid the possibility of overdraw. It's great on turn 3 but otherwise it can be tough to make worthwhile. Maybe I'll use murloc knights.
I also might run elise, although it doesn't feel necessary for paladin. Never has felt necessary imho.
edit:
Also, pretty disgusting how yogg has made it's way into some control warrior lists. I've watched rosty run it and it's actually good. But to face it myself, 20 minute match potentially decided by a busted yogg? Meh. Fortunately he didn't get counter spell, although I played around it to great cost of my deck left over (played tracking I got off saarad). I think it was ice block, but ice armor was potentially really bad as well as I risked 1/4 chance it was that to get lethal with the next fatigue tick.
So that's why Priest got Purify! Inner Fire and Divine Spieit too strong!
Rank6 for the first time ever. Always burned out at around rank10 so I guess Ill go for 5 this time. Gonna play some stupid fatigue decks after this, feels kind of boring to climb with these tier1 decks 'cause as a noob I cant climb with the decks I actually like to play a lot more.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Got back to back legendaries. Greenskin yesterday and a redundant Cenarius today. Now 2/3rds to a Fandral. 900 Dust off crafting Malyoggos Druid.
Went 5-1 with Medivh mage today for the quest only lost to 1 warlock.
Moroes is looking juicier to dust with every day it just seems so useless considering all the aoe in the meta as well as available eternally through classic.
Went 5-1 with Medivh mage today for the quest only lost to 1 warlock.
Moroes is looking juicier to dust with every day it just seems so useless considering all the aoe in the meta as well as available eternally through classic.
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