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[KuroNeeko]

Gorehowl is one of the reasons I think CW is often favored. But it depends on what late game the priest is running. Since priest cannot effectively beat aggro and control with the same deck list, I think it's just weird to hear someone say CP is favored vs CW. I think 99% of CW lists run gorehowl and justicar, so it's simply difficult for the priest to actually kill the CW and they're typically the aggressor in the match simply because of how much health they can stack before getting into fatigue.

Two things have changed slightly with Karazhan: Priest of the Feast and Bishop.

The Bishop offers two bodies for the price of one and effectively lets me place two threats on the board with one card (as opposed to two pre-Kara). It makes it easier to put pressure on the CW. The second is Priest of the Feast. While the life gain isn't significant outside of Fatigue, the 6 health is. It quickly moves out of range of Gorehowl (along with Blademaster and all other Blademasters that get Resurrected).

If it's a Resurrect Priest (which is what I'm playing now), I can often afford to be reeeeaaally greedy against Control Warrior. Sometimes I won't play creature until turn four, five, or six. I played a game today where my first creature was Bog Creeper. From there, you can really abuse Resurrect and Bishop.

The hardest Control Warrior build to reliably beat is C'thun Warrior because they can often sneak in a Brann before C'thun and just burst you down. Or build up a huge C'thun and then finish you off with Grom or Gorehowl.

I've been doing OK with Rez Priest against both aggro and control. Though it's not consistent. The first few days I played it, I enjoyed close to a 70% win rate though it's gone down quite a bit since then.

Tempo Mage, almost any kind of Rogue, and Hunter are still really rough. Aggro shaman is a bit easier and Midrange Shaman is a constant struggle but doable...

 

[Dahbomb]

I played a bunch of Priests today with Yogg CW (was in Casual) and I beat all of them. Of course it was Elise that won the game in the end. And some of the Priests were pretty greedy too with Medivh.

But I don't think they were playing the match up perfectly. I think a greedy Priest can beat a CW. It's list dependent in the end.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I was doing pretty poorly with maly rogue tonight. I know I lost at least 2 games due to deathwing that I should have won. Simple mistakes and all... but then after that I just lost matches due to things out of my control. So I switched to anyfin paladin and for some reason did much better.

It's weird how a "combo" deck like anyfin paladin can fare much better than a rogue combo deck all because they can actually clear the board when they fall behind (RIP blade flurry). It's kinda weird too cause anyfin is such a weird card for the paladin theme. If you didn't know it was a paladin card, there is no way you would guess it is one.

 

[Pooya]

Went to wild to do my quests, I had my fill of shamans for this year already, I'm not going to play standard until nerfs hit.

Put on that golden portrait and legend card back, got 3 instant concedes and some bad decks. That was fun!

 

[Raxus]

Reno mage is too fun. WE GUN BE RICH!

 

[NBtoaster]

Reno mage is too fun. WE GUN BE RICH!

Yeah it feels safe and cosy with Reno in hand and ice block up.

At least until Yogg flares you...

 

[Vanillalite]

So much easier to not get fucked by not having any cards to play with mage. Babbling Book and Cab Tome really help with extra spells.

Helps solve what AI couldn't do on its own.

 

[Levi]

It really depends on the deck. You can't just make a blanket statement like control priest is favored vs control warrior. Maybe you're just playing the match up wrong since it comes across so rarely. Priest really cannot match the health gain of justicar, so they have to play aggressively and force you into making mistakes or risks. Typically the slower deck is favored in control mirrors, and control warrior is typically slower than control priest. But again, that is a generalized statement.

Control Priest has exactly TWO good match ups on the VSS Data Reaper report: Dragon Priest and Control Warrior.

Regardless of my own personal win rate vs Control Priest, seeing a Control Priest player brag about beating Control Warrior is only slightly more ridiculous than seeing a Hunter player do it, or if a Warrior player was humblebragging about their win rate vs Zoo.

As far as "the match up doesn't come up often", I'm not some newb to the game and I was grinding with a heavy control warrior back when Control Priest was still a good deck. Back when they could play two deathlords, steal your deathlords with Cabal if you were dumb enough to play them, and be four cards ahead in fatigue without breaking a sweat. PTSD.

 

[Finalow]

playing the disgusting midrange shaman deck and I'm so close to rank 5, but nay, I just can't get there.

this was my last bullshit game, aggro shaman? Easy win for me, I think. yeah, except he has an insane starting hand and draws, I don't, but I still win because my deck is by far better. well, he runs out of cards and now I won - I'm thinking. Nope, he fucking draws double Rockbiter for lethal. but when I play aggro shaman I get that combo maybe once out of 30 games, and it probably doesn't even win me the game.

then of course I keep losing to Yogg. and to be honest this was one of the most disgusting Yoggs I've ever seen, https://hsreplay.net/replay/SyAdrvGN4jMUMg7gBrRpGm
I fucked up at the end and didn't realize I didn't have 10 mana - too focused on being salty - but I probably would have lost even if I cleared his board.

 

[ZeroX03]

Did some tournament/streamer explode with control Paladin? Friend and I getting mostly control Paladin in 5-10 ranked all night.

 

[Yaboosh]

playing the disgusting midrange shaman deck and I'm so close to rank 5, but nay, I just can't get there.

this was my last bullshit game, aggro shaman? Easy win for me, I think. yeah, except he has an insane starting hand and draws, I don't, but I still win because my deck is by far better. well, he runs out of cards and now I won - I'm thinking. Nope, he fucking draws double Rockbiter for lethal. but when I play aggro shaman I get that combo maybe once out of 30 games, and it probably doesn't even win me the game.

then of course I keep losing to Yogg. and to be honest this was one of the most disgusting Yoggs I've ever seen, https://hsreplay.net/replay/SyAdrvGN4jMUMg7gBrRpGm
I fucked up at the end and didn't realize I didn't have 10 mana - too focused on being salty - but I probably would have lost even if I cleared his board.

Oh my god I am so sorry that happened to you. You must be devastated.

 

[ZeroX03]

That player could've top decked Lava Burst for the lethal too. Or a few other things. Really wasn't all that much of a super lucky draw.

 

[Yaboosh]

That player could've top decked Lava Burst for the lethal too. Or a few other things. Really wasn't all that much of a super lucky draw.

Nope. He is a victim of this game. Brode himself stabbed him in the heart.

 

[_DrMario_]

How bout some dank memes graciously provided by Reynad to raise everyone's spirit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw3f1mUBTyA

 

[Vanillalite]

Yogg is still broken, but especially for Mage they'd have a tough time in the current meta without it. I'm not sure what could replace it for a viable win condition.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Yogg is still broken, but especially for Mage they'd have a tough time in the current meta without it. I'm not sure what could replace it for a viable win condition.

make Medivh cost 7

 

[Htown]

An object lesson in the perils of SMOrcing too hard:

https://hsreplay.net/replay/5JDwb4GZwRmzLsa2vWSbEc

All this shaman has to do is hit my acolyte of pain with his trogg on turn 4 or 5 and he wins the game. Instead he lets it sit there, I use wild pyromancer with the card draw to clear his board twice and he loses to a lame priest deck.

 

[Levi]

Yogg is still broken, but especially for Mage they'd have a tough time in the current meta without it. I'm not sure what could replace it for a viable win condition.

Tempo mage would be fine without Yogg. They'd just have to stop being so greedy with their decklists. Double Tome, for example, is super greedy.

 

[Dahbomb]

How bout some dank memes graciously provided by Reynad to raise everyone's spirit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw3f1mUBTyA

Shots fired.

Cool concept though, will be checking it out.

 

[Yaboosh]

An object lesson in the perils of SMOrcing too hard:

https://hsreplay.net/replay/5JDwb4GZwRmzLsa2vWSbEc

All this shaman has to do is hit my acolyte of pain with his trogg on turn 4 or 5 and he wins the game. Instead he lets it sit there, I use wild pyromancer with the card draw to clear his board twice and he loses to a lame priest deck.

I'm not going to lie. I climaxed.

 

[bjaelke]

If we blew out 5000 pages in the client detailing every possible statistic that would probably be too much. Right now we do some simple things like your highest arena key, total wins in both modes, etc. That is less than some people want and probably more than another subset of people care about.

 

[IceMarker]

I'm gonna be streaming a bit, posting just in case anyone on GAF wants to watch me do less-than-optimal deck experimentation.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Laddering has become super easy in HS.

 

[Dahbomb]

Probably the same people who get confused by more than 9 deck slots.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Beat a Zoolock with a budget pirate Warrior deck. Feels good.

 

[IceMarker]

Laddering has become super easy in HS.

Not if you play Priest.

 

[manhack]

Laddering has become super easy in HS.

I'm not sure why people keep randomly posting stuff like that in here. You are not the first to say this. A few points:

1. It is getting towards the end of the month, which means it usually is easier.
2. What ranks are we talking about? Rank 5 to Legend is never particularly easy unless you get lucky.
3. Try and play Paladin, Priest or Rogue the 1st 2 weeks of the season and see how "easy" it is. Especially true if you are not net decking someone else's optimized deck.

 

[Yaboosh]

I've had enormous struggles laddering this month. I'm stuck at rank 13 in standard after two months of hitting rank 5 pretty easily.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm not sure why people keep randomly posting stuff like that in here. You are not the first to say this. A few points:

1. It is getting towards the end of the month, which means it usually is easier.
2. What ranks are we talking about? Rank 5 to Legend is never particularly easy unless you get lucky.
3. Try and play Paladin, Priest or Rogue the 1st 2 weeks of the season and see how "easy" it is. Especially true if you are not net decking someone else's optimized deck.

1. Sure
2. To 5 (few here are going for Legend)
3. Actually played Paladin to 8 last month and Rogue to 8 this month. What's wrong with netdecking and why is hamstringing oneself a valid counterargument.

Because it is I'm not even trying particularly this month since I got to 5 in a couple days on wild but just by doing quests and running some decks for fun I'm at 6.

Not if you play Priest.

Why would anyone play priest?

 

[Levi]

I probably have a postive win rate this season, but I'm not climbing since I'm playing my three accounts equally and I've taken to doing some quests in Wild just to get some variety. I accidentally got up to 14 in Wild on NA because I did a Paladin quest with Midrange Paladin and then I did a Hunter quest with Wild N'zoth Hunter and both decks were 5-1. I'm only rank 15 on NA ladder, and I'm rank 13 on both EU and Asia. I only do quests these days so I'm at the mercy of the Quest RNG as far as what tier decks I'm playing.

 

[manhack]

1. Sure
2. To 5 (few here are going for Legend)
3. Actually played Paladin to 8 last month and Rogue to 8 this month. What's wrong with netdecking and why is hamstringing oneself a valid counterargument.

Because it is I'm not even trying particularly this month since I got to 5 in a couple days on wild but just by doing quests and running some decks for fun I'm at 6.

Why would anyone play priest?

In my opinion a more fair sentiment would be "Laddering has become super easy in HS, for me". And I'm assuming this was implied, but to go further.

I get Rank 5 almost every month and have been Legend rank before. I have all classes golden. I haven't really been 'try harding' for awhile and like to play things that I think are fun and very rarely play Tier 1 decks, except to test them out.

I got to rank 5 last month with my home brew Dragon Curator Paladin. I've been experimenting like crazy this month, but finally started a serious climb with a home brew Beast Hunter(2 Ram Wranglers to spice things up). My point isn't so much that you should or shouldn't run net decks, but that the ease of laddering is subjective.

I have lot of people on my friend list that I spectate and talk to about this very subject. They pick a tier 1 deck off of tempostorm, like aggro shaman, and can't climb with it. I even had the guy tell me "Shaman sucks". While this obviously isn't true, it can be frustrating having issues.

For example, check out this reddit thread, lots of people in there saying it is actually harder than normal from their perspective.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I think it's just a matter of how much time you have. A deck with a win rate over 50% will eventually climb since you're rewarded for winning streaks (and not punished for losing streaks).

I've only gone past Rank 15 once.

 

[thepotatoman]

Did some tournament/streamer explode with control Paladin? Friend and I getting mostly control Paladin in 5-10 ranked all night.

Saw one on reddit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GreAjidHWgk

Murloc Knight + Mukla's Champion + Curator combo is something new and fun to try, even though Anyfin is clearly better.

My other guess is it's a reaction to Control Warrior regaining popularity. Or it's just you. I haven't played in a while to say if I'm seeing the same thing.

 

[Vanillalite]

Tempo mage would be fine without Yogg. They'd just have to stop being so greedy with their decklists. Double Tome, for example, is super greedy.

True, but people run Tome cause Mage has shit card draw.

 

[Dahbomb]

True, but people run Tome cause Mage has shit card draw.

Mage has plenty of ways to draw. Arcane Intellect, Acolyte ping or use one of the many cantrips in the game. Freeze Mage has no issues draw its deck.

Cabalist Tome is there for the greed, spell synergy and to feed that Yogg. Also the unpredictability factor is a major factor to the card.

 

[Yaboosh]

Cabalist tome is so much fun but so slow that it really is just for control matchups.

 

[Vanillalite]

Mage has plenty of ways to draw. Arcane Intellect, Acolyte ping or use one of the many cantrips in the game. Freeze Mage has no issues draw its deck.

Cabalist Tome is there for the greed, spell synergy and to feed that Yogg. Also the unpredictability factor is a major factor to the card.

Freeze Mage isn't Tempo Mage doe

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

In my opinion a more fair sentiment would be "Laddering has become super easy in HS, for me".

I get Rank 5 almost every month and have been Legend rank before. I have all classes golden. I haven't really been 'try harding' for awhile and like to play things that I think are fun and very rarely play Tier 1 decks, except to test them out.

I got to rank 5 last month with my home brew Dragon Curator Paladin. I've been experimenting like crazy this month, but finally started a serious climb with a home brew Beast Hunter(2 Ram Wranglers to spice things up). My point isn't so much that you should or shouldn't run net decks, but that the ease of laddering is subjective.

I have lot of people on my friend list that I spectate and talk to about this very subject. They pick a tier 1 deck off of tempostorm, like aggro shaman, and can't climb with it. I even had the guy tell me "Shaman sucks". While this obviously isn't true, it can be frustrating having issues.

For example, check out this reddit thread, lots of people in there saying it is actually harder than normal from their perspective.

You are correct it was presumptuous of me to think my experience were the same for everyone else.
I do like brewing myself but I almost always start with netdecking since I either don't have the cards / slash dust to experiment or want to get an idea how the archetype is supposed to work.

Reddit is most often trash.

 

[IceMarker]

Thanks to everyone on GAF who came in and hung out with me on my stream, I'm trying to get a consistent schedule of at least once a week if my day job doesn't get in the way (or life in general).

Why would anyone play priest?

B-but I wanna have fun with all 9 classes!

 

[Dahbomb]

Blade Flurry's AOE potential just represented something we didn't think Rogue should be good at.

RIP Rogue ever being a control class.

We've discussed making some changes, in the last month we've discussed changes to 15-20 cards, but it's not always clear which of those changes to make or whether to make them at all.

That's a lot of cards.

 

[IceMarker]

That's a lot of cards.

Wouldn't that be the most they've changed at one time, even during beta, assuming they nerf/buff all in one patch?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Wouldn't that be the most they've changed at one time, even during beta, assuming they nerf/buff all in one patch?

Well just because they discuss changes on cards doesn't mean that many will be changed. I think they said they had upwards to 30 cards being discussed for the last patch.

Control Priest has exactly TWO good match ups on the VSS Data Reaper report: Dragon Priest and Control Warrior.

Regardless of my own personal win rate vs Control Priest, seeing a Control Priest player brag about beating Control Warrior is only slightly more ridiculous than seeing a Hunter player do it, or if a Warrior player was humblebragging about their win rate vs Zoo.

As far as "the match up doesn't come up often", I'm not some newb to the game and I was grinding with a heavy control warrior back when Control Priest was still a good deck. Back when they could play two deathlords, steal your deathlords with Cabal if you were dumb enough to play them, and be four cards ahead in fatigue without breaking a sweat. PTSD.

Cling to that report all you want. It only says slightly favorable and it barely has any games played and you don't even know if those matches were played at rank 25 or not. The margin of error there has to be huge, enough so that it could easily be heavily favored for priest and it wouldn't be the stats' fault for not showing that.

And the report doesn't even distinguish between any decks. Data reaper doesn't even have a listing for maly druid, but it has a list for cthun lol.

 

[bjaelke]

Wouldn't that be the most they've changed at one time, even during beta, assuming they nerf/buff all in one patch?

They changed 40-50 each time during beta and alpha.

 

[IceMarker]

Well just because they discuss changes on cards doesn't mean that many will be changed. I think they said they had upwards to 30 cards being discussed for the last patch.

They changed 40-50 each time during beta and alpha.

Ah okay thanks, I didn't start playing until the game got out of beta so I wasn't around when Blizzard actually took advantage of the medium. It would be nice to see them change 15-20 too weak or strong cards again.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Ah okay thanks, I didn't start playing until the game got out of beta so I wasn't around when Blizzard actually took advantage of the medium. It would be nice to see them change 15-20 too weak or strong cards again.

I wouldn't say Blizzard doesn't take advantage of the medium. They are just restrained in making adjustments after every patch. I think they could step it up a little bit. Maybe 1 more balance patch per year. If they do one shortly, they're probably fine for the calendar year.

But I would have liked seeing one 2 months ago. I'd imagine from their perspective, they hoped the expansion would have had more of an impact to fix some things. They like their wait and see approach and to some extent so do I. I'd rather see things get shaken up by adding new cards, but I also would not mind seeing some rough edges fine tuned like tuskar totemic - among other cards.

 

[Levi]

Cling to that report all you want. It only says slightly favorable and it barely has any games played and you don't even know if those matches were played at rank 25 or not. The margin of error there has to be huge, enough so that it could easily be heavily favored for priest and it wouldn't be the stats' fault for not showing that.
.

Yeah, all those Rank 25 players playing expensive control decks, installing Track-o-bot, and linking the Track-o-Bot API with Vicious Syndicate. LOL.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Yeah, all those Rank 25 players playing expensive control decks, installing Track-o-bot, and linking the Track-o-Bot API with Vicious Syndicate. LOL.

So rank 20 players. Rank 15 players. 8, Whatever. Do you track when you're at rank 15?

Do you really think it's an accurate snapshot when both players aren't playing the deck properly? With all the randomness from 1 game to another, you'd want both more stats and better players.

 

[paperboywriter]

the meta right now is garbage. hunter, schaman and warrior are so much better than the rest its not fun anymore.
if blizzard doesnt do shit soon i might quit.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Rather than just edit my last post, I want to lay this all out in a new one just to show how much of a joke this all is.

Yeah, all those Rank 25 players playing expensive control decks, installing Track-o-bot, and linking the Track-o-Bot API with Vicious Syndicate. LOL.

That's right, you don't know who is submitting the reports. You don't know what deck list they are running. The chart doesn't distinguish based on rank or experience. And it doesn't have enough matches played to even remotely considered factoring out skill.

But we're not left without devices to figure out... who is playing priest that is contributing to the reports? Are they rank legend or are they rank 25, or perhaps something in between? It's a good thing that they show class break down BY RANK.

Look at the chart of "by rank" games. At legend priest is almost non-existent. So your best players in the world aren't even touching the class. Your best players in the world aren't creating and iterating new deck types. Control priest is not even close to 1% there.

Rank 1 to 10... a huge category btw, still has control priest being played below 2%. Still least played class overall. I'd imagine rank 1-10 is where the majority of your "competitive but not hardcore dedicated" players fall. I think that means decks are more completed, like less people substituting major X card that the deck requires to operate with a lesser version.

Rank 11-15... oh whats this? Priest is actually being played at this rank. 4% priest. It's actually close to double the amount of priests being played at rank legend to rank 10. Priest isn't even bottom class here. It is being played more than paladin and rogue... according to the report. We're starting to get a clearer picture as to who exactly is giving data to the report while playing priest. Let's not forget that deck lists vary, and they vary a whole lot more the lower in rank you find yourself in. People simply don't have all the optimal cards or perhaps they don't care and are experimenting.

Rank 16-20... wow... more priest than warlock, paland and rogue. Control priest at 4.72. You are two times more likely to find a control priest in rank 16-20 than from the ranks legend to 10 COMBINED. Now factor in ranks 11-15 which was already double that. Now factor in that there are thousands of more players at rank 11-20.

Now lets look at rank 21-25... the rank you claim is not being reported. Holy shit, priest is a top tier class at rank 21-25. It's the third most played class. 8.85% control priest. There are more control priests being played than ALL OF SHAMAN COMBINED at rank 21-25.

So who exactly is reporting priest matches to data reaper? We know it's not legend players. We know it's not rank 1-10. The vast majority of the reports appear to be coming from ranks 16-25. Deny it all you want. The stats are there.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

wow I'm playing so badly with Reno Mage. Deck is fun though, running a curator version.