T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I noticed that it does nerf a lot of Shaman's worst matchups.
But when did Shamans stop playing Tuskarr and Rockbiter?
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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Yeah, I noticed that it does nerf a lot of Shaman's worst matchups.
But when did Shamans stop playing Tuskarr and Rockbiter?
Shaman is fine with the nerfs, I don't mind that in each rotation a class is better than the others, the problem with the actual gameplay was that sometimes even the good matchups against aggro/midrange shaman were screwer up thanks to a flametongue, golem or mana tide that changed the whole match
Every Shaman deck plays Tuskar but Rockbiter was played less of in the Midrange Shaman deck. If Midrange Shaman finds an adequate replacement for Tuskar in the deck then it will be business as usual.
Maybe it's finally this guy's time to shine:
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I don't think shamans will outright stop playing Tuskar.
You still get the discount for Shithead From Below.
Even if they use the card, their power level drops because of it.
It's still possible Tuskar sees play for the 1/4 Spell damage roll. You have a better chance to get it now which means more consistency for your board clears and Spirit Claw. Is that enough for it to see play? Who knows but that's still far more acceptable than what it was before.
And of course Witch Doctor Shaman would still play it.
LucidMomentum
Member
Shouldn't have dusted Yogg right out the gate, dangit.
RIP OTK warrior, there goes another deck that actually took skill to pilot into the dustbin of history.
The hate on against combo decks is unreal. The game is already basically 90% aggro/curve oriented, but I guess the most brain-dead decks are the ones that sell the packs.
The hate on against combo decks is unreal. The game is already basically 90% aggro/curve oriented, but I guess the most brain-dead decks are the ones that sell the packs.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
"skill"
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Midrange shaman played double rockbiter for the alakir synergy.
Shaman will still be tier 1. I'm not sure they will be top of the chart, but in the top 3, at least. They have too many tools until the rotation. They still have some of the best early game AoE, the best removal spells, and the ability to flood the board and snowball the game out of nowhere. Aggro shaman will find a way too.
The best we can hope is that it encourages people to try other decks and maybe other archetypes can flourish.
The best we can hope is that it encourages people to try other decks and maybe other archetypes can flourish.
Well none of that anymore.
That's also probably why they went with the 2 mana choice... can't get double Rockbitered with AL Akir or makes it harder to do the Leeroy Windfury OTK.
Playing against combo decks in HS is almost like playing solitaire.
I'm sorry for your loss, but as I tried that deck, it was pretty obvious it wasn't anything good, you just make aggro decisions until you have all the necessary cards in hand to kill the opponent in 1 turn, it isn't as smart as you think it is.
Yogg change sucks, if it's no longer a reliable board clear, it's useless. It was nice having some powerful 10 mana threats but there goes one of them. Charge nerf is also bullshit, OTK Warrior was never a serious threat on ladder but it was fun to see it do well at tournaments. But of course, decks that aren't about curving out from 1 to 8 just aren't appropriate for the game.
I assume you mean decisions on how to handle aggro, either way any deck making decisions is outrageously smart compared to the stuff Blizzard wants people to play
The Mango Sentinel
Member
What skill? You cycle cards until you have your shit and then use it all in one turn.
Edit: or I could just be salty that I lost to one a little while ago even though I knew exactly what he was doing from turn 2. Bastard had 2 health left.
Karsticles
Member
People hate combo decks. Duelyst got its first ever S Tier combo deck since the game launched with the first expansion, and the combo enabler is the #1 requested card for a nerf. Duelyst's balance patch is coming out in a few days, so I'm curious to see if they stick to their guns on it.
This is probably the best set of balance changes they've done so that's something. Tuskarr probably could have been made a 3/3 since it seems really weak for a class card now, but this needed to happen.
Yogg still might make the cut in druid but that's a hard call. If you spend 10 mana on a card that does nothing but kill itself on the first spell that's beyond horrible. Might be too risky now. But I've made my opinion of this card known a whole bunch so I won't miss it.
Charge is intersting...it's a 'nerf' but I think the card is more interesting to me now, I'm curious to see if the synergies it enables now can make some a spot in some new decks.
Yogg still might make the cut in druid but that's a hard call. If you spend 10 mana on a card that does nothing but kill itself on the first spell that's beyond horrible. Might be too risky now. But I've made my opinion of this card known a whole bunch so I won't miss it.
Charge is intersting...it's a 'nerf' but I think the card is more interesting to me now, I'm curious to see if the synergies it enables now can make some a spot in some new decks.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I just saw they're going to make Yogg give the player overload now too. That card is dead forever.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Dang what should I make with my dust
let me know.
I did the 20 pack thing and I am personally interested in getting in that game if HS becomes too stale, so I'm actually interested to see if they address changes quickly and how they make them
The Duelyst combo deck can kill you by turn 5-6. That's like completely unacceptable level of combo. Not even Patron Warrior could do that.
If it takes a reasonable amount of time and deck cycling to assemble a combo then it's usually fine. If a combo deck can kill you in the same amount of time as an aggro deck then that is just bad for the game.
People do have an inherent distaste for combo decks though. Exodia decks have been nerfed numerous times in YGO along with various other OTKs. The whole solitaire playstyle just isn't fun for the other player.
I think Anyfin is an acceptable combo deck in its current iteration. You have to set up the combo by killing your Murlocs, then play Anyfin on turn 10 and then again to get the OTK. That's a lot of time and card draw one has to go through to enable it. It makes it easy to counter and target.
then it revives ragnaros and blast us with an 8 attack to our faces...
All this time, it had been my assumption that once Tuskarr rotated out of Standard, Blizz would reprint a new card that read: Battlecry: Summon a basic Totem. Because, as far as a mechanic goes, summoning a Totem through Battlecry it vital in Totem-synergy based decks that not having such a card in the Basic/Original set is damning. You essentially give up the stats of the card to grant a free Totem. Shamans love having more bodies on the Battlefield. It means the ability to do more stuff.
So, on one hand, I think the Tuskarr change is completely fair and is a key piece of the puzzle. On the other, TGT will be rotating out of Standard in the not too distant future, meaning the vital mechanic I just talked about will not longer be present. They will have to (in my opinion) print ANOTHER card that is a Battlecry and that will summon a Totem. Due Note: It doesn't necessarily have to be a basic Totem, or a random Totem, or a Manatide/Flametongue. It can be a unique token-style Totem even. And will they feel like creating such a card after having Tuskarr? Heck if I know.
The bigger fright is a 2-mana Rockbiter. Y'know, I thought the trade off of having to A) Grant it to a minion, or B) Grant it to your hero, and thus maybe take damage, was a good trade off for that spell versus Lightning Bolt, which had Overload. Now, I'm not so sure. At this point, I feel like it is nothing more than a Doomhammer-combo Enabler tool. It was basically the mirror to Paladin's Blessing of Might which requires a minion but has the same stats (+3 atk). It will still definitely be used, simply because it's a 2-mana 3-damage spell.
Of course, nerfing Rockbiter, perhaps they should take a look at Windfury at 2-mana. It never sees play. Minions with Windfury alone aren't seeing play (they need something extra, like Al'Akir or Raging Worgen). Not that it'll happen, but maybe reducing the cost to 1-mana or allowing it to affect your hero would actually give it some vitality.
So, on one hand, I think the Tuskarr change is completely fair and is a key piece of the puzzle. On the other, TGT will be rotating out of Standard in the not too distant future, meaning the vital mechanic I just talked about will not longer be present. They will have to (in my opinion) print ANOTHER card that is a Battlecry and that will summon a Totem. Due Note: It doesn't necessarily have to be a basic Totem, or a random Totem, or a Manatide/Flametongue. It can be a unique token-style Totem even. And will they feel like creating such a card after having Tuskarr? Heck if I know.
The bigger fright is a 2-mana Rockbiter. Y'know, I thought the trade off of having to A) Grant it to a minion, or B) Grant it to your hero, and thus maybe take damage, was a good trade off for that spell versus Lightning Bolt, which had Overload. Now, I'm not so sure. At this point, I feel like it is nothing more than a Doomhammer-combo Enabler tool. It was basically the mirror to Paladin's Blessing of Might which requires a minion but has the same stats (+3 atk). It will still definitely be used, simply because it's a 2-mana 3-damage spell.
Of course, nerfing Rockbiter, perhaps they should take a look at Windfury at 2-mana. It never sees play. Minions with Windfury alone aren't seeing play (they need something extra, like Al'Akir or Raging Worgen). Not that it'll happen, but maybe reducing the cost to 1-mana or allowing it to affect your hero would actually give it some vitality.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I was in a convenience store cause someone was paying me back for a favor I just did them, and I was playing hearthstone on my phone and some girl walked up to me to ask to borrow my phone. The nerve of her! I said sorry no I'm using the phone, internally I wanted to say "this lock n load scum hunter has to lose". I eventually did win.
That deck sucks except sometimes you win off of yogg alone. He got a really good yogg, charge on yogg. Basically this match would have been 100% different post nerf. No yogg to charge my face for 9 damage for sure. He probably wouldn't even play yogg on an empty board too.
That deck sucks except sometimes you win off of yogg alone. He got a really good yogg, charge on yogg. Basically this match would have been 100% different post nerf. No yogg to charge my face for 9 damage for sure. He probably wouldn't even play yogg on an empty board too.
FormallyFamicom
Member
I think Tuskarr cost is now adequate. It's a 2 drop that summons a one drop for three mana and gives a discount to Thing from Below. No need for a stat raise imo.
Portugeezer
Member
Have you never played a Yogg deck for fun? Not everyone is ultra competitive.
People will still be able to play Yogg for fun.
Bingo. FWA first couple of turns. Stall, gather cards. Run worgen + charge.
See Rogue for a real combo esp Malygos deck
Granted--- it did take skill to survive to gather the cards. But that's true for any late game bloomer
Portugeezer
Member
Nah, building a 20+ spell Yogg was fun and you didn't have to worry about it killing itself.
It was too good, the RNG element was too varied and the value of the card was insane. It also punished any decks that relied on lasting until late game. And it wasn't like a Deathwing where you could play around it.
It also made competitive Hearthstone look like a joke. There will always be a major RNG factor, but getting rid of Tuskarr high rolls and Yogg can only help.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Don't you see how hilariously hypocritical this argument is? Yogg could win or lose the game before, even based on the first spell. Now it's just less likely to win you the game overall, and that's massively different? No, sorry it's not. The change reduces it's power so you don't see it in so many top decks.
I think this logic shows people were just hard on defending the pure strength of yogg and at least some don't care that it was RNG, they care that it won them games very often that they had no chance to win. I've been of the opinion that strong cards in the game are fine, even saying cotw is fine (although I said several times if the stats show a nerf is warranted, 9 mana is good).
The more I think about it the more I agree. Just had a match against shaman where I was ahead all game and still lost with no help from the nerfed cards. It almost felt like his deck was purposely built for post patch.
Our main hope is that the next expansion gives buffs to the other classes and doesn't buff the Tier 1 decks even more.
You being obtuse? Battlecry. Wicked Witchdoctor is a cool card in the Totem line-up, but it fills the other gap: Spending a resource to summon a Totem, potentially an endless supply. It doesn't address the Battlecry portion, which will always, guaranteed, summon a Totem when played.
I'm postulating on whether or not Blizzard would reproduce such a card like Tuskarr in the next/future expansion because I feel it's necessary to have a card that, on the spot, will summon a Totem without needing a Hero Power, a spell, or some other thing. Or will they instead try to skirt the other direction and come up with another archetype to fiddle with.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Or they just print new totem cards like flame tongue or totem golem. There is no real need to have a neutral non-totem have a battlecry to summon a totem, basic or not. And they aren't really into reprinting new cards... the whole point of rotations is to provide difference not just different shades of the same.
They actually said that Yogg was one of the best ways for other classes to beat midrange shaman in control warrior or druid. I can see that.
When I mention reprint, I don't necessarily mean word-for-word. Just similar mechanics. "Battlecry: Summon a (whatever) Totem" I think would be good to keep the Totem gameplay rolling. It supports other Totem cards, too, like Primal Fusion or Thing From Below.
Just like I think it would be in their interest to produce another Totem card that can attack, like Totem Golem but not exactly like Totem Golem. Different mana cost, maybe no Overload, etc.
We could have a Discover Totem card. Or Totem that costs more than 3-mana. Or a legendary Totem.
Portugeezer
Member
They nerfed COTW, what is wrong with Hunter now?
Don't you see how hilariously hypocritical this argument is? Yogg could win or lose the game before, even based on the first spell. Now it's just less likely to win you the game overall, and that's massively different? No, sorry it's not. The change reduces it's power so you don't see it in so many top decks.
I think this logic shows people were just hard on defending the pure strength of yogg and at least some don't care that it was RNG, they care that it won them games very often that they had no chance to win. I've been of the opinion that strong cards in the game are fine, even saying cotw is fine (although I said several times if the stats show a nerf is warranted, 9 mana is good).
i don't even own the card. I have no horse in this race of what gets nerf or not. People are just flying off the handles about Yogg. Take some time to listen to Kibler's talk about the state of competitive play, specifically the little segment he talked about yogg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qimPK-imlB0
CotW deserved to be a 10 mana spell is pyroblast and MC got to be 10 mana spells.
Hunters are still godly curve wise.
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