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Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You can bring the worst class to a tournament and have some success in the right meta.
Shaman
druid
warrior
hunter
mage
warlock
paladin
rogue
priest
This is what I would describe as the list based on a number of considerations. And I think whether rogue is tier 3 or tier 4, it's not a big difference anyway.
Shaman
druid
warrior
hunter
mage
warlock
paladin
rogue
priest
This is what I would describe as the list based on a number of considerations. And I think whether rogue is tier 3 or tier 4, it's not a big difference anyway.
The Knife Juggler count was surprisingly low.
No way, mayne!
It's a nerf, but not that big of a nerf. For decks that run lots of spells, I think he's still in it. Plus, you could get that insane Vanish / Shadowstep value.
oh wtf just saw the balance changes
Rockbiter change is fine, I like that it can still combo it's just less likely to happen on a single turn.
Tuskarr Totemic nerf is lame. He's leaving soon anyway. Would've loved to have chosen a basic totem or increased his stats to go with it. I guess choose would've been too broken with spell damage being a deck now.
Call of the Wild going to 9 is expected. Any more of a nerf would've felt unfair.
Execute. Good.
Charge. Stupid. I like the combo decks it enabled. RIP the only Warrior deck I've ever liked.
Abusive Sergeant. I don't think he was overpowered, but with a lot less bulky 2-drops going around I guess having 2 attack was too much.
Yogg... has anyone run the numbers on the chances of Yogg interrupting himself? Seems like a fair change, I find he tends to die roughly 5 spells in.
Also won't be getting any significant dust unless Yogg significantly drops off.
RIP my lovely Aggro Shaman, it's Midrange all the way.
Rockbiter change is fine, I like that it can still combo it's just less likely to happen on a single turn.
Tuskarr Totemic nerf is lame. He's leaving soon anyway. Would've loved to have chosen a basic totem or increased his stats to go with it. I guess choose would've been too broken with spell damage being a deck now.
Call of the Wild going to 9 is expected. Any more of a nerf would've felt unfair.
Execute. Good.
Charge. Stupid. I like the combo decks it enabled. RIP the only Warrior deck I've ever liked.
Abusive Sergeant. I don't think he was overpowered, but with a lot less bulky 2-drops going around I guess having 2 attack was too much.
Yogg... has anyone run the numbers on the chances of Yogg interrupting himself? Seems like a fair change, I find he tends to die roughly 5 spells in.
Also won't be getting any significant dust unless Yogg significantly drops off.
RIP my lovely Aggro Shaman, it's Midrange all the way.
I'm regretting dusting Al Akir a lot now
That was my feeling, that although it may save me less often, it's only usually used to save me when I am out of options anyway.
Al Akir is worse now with that rockbiter nerf anyway
This sounds a tad condescending, especially considering how much competitive play Yogg saw. There are plenty of people who aren't casual who thought Yogg was pretty cool.
But everyone with half a brain it was OP. A card can be both, cool and fun and still OP as fuck. That is Yogg.
Wow the nerfhammer really went wild this time. Rip Shaman (it's still good lul)
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think Reynad's right about Charge being a fun card. One of my favorite moments in hearthstone is countering worgen OTK combo by Hexing my on board charlson and then faceless manipulator copy the 0/1 taunt the turn he ran out of cards. I actually won that game.
Honestly my biggest problem with the OTK deck was the 1 mana execute. If he had a fiery war axe in hand, he could get rid of any taunt for just 1 mana which made countering it with taunts pretty difficult. Execute was the biggest reason Soggath started to become popular at the height of OTK popularity, because it's the only taunt that couldn't be removed for 1 mana. 2 mana execute would have made taunt counterplay stronger.
Better than N'Zoth style combos where the counterplay as control is hoping you're playing a class with a strong board clear, and simply saving that good board clear for when N'Zoth gets play.
Honestly my biggest problem with the OTK deck was the 1 mana execute. If he had a fiery war axe in hand, he could get rid of any taunt for just 1 mana which made countering it with taunts pretty difficult. Execute was the biggest reason Soggath started to become popular at the height of OTK popularity, because it's the only taunt that couldn't be removed for 1 mana. 2 mana execute would have made taunt counterplay stronger.
Better than N'Zoth style combos where the counterplay as control is hoping you're playing a class with a strong board clear, and simply saving that good board clear for when N'Zoth gets play.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I would say it needs experimentation. You probably only want to play it when you're hoping for something like a doom or twisting nether, on a board state where it's pretty likely yogg would only die to a board clear like that with so many other targetable minions.
I do think it's druid exclusive now at least, since mage have their own better board clears they can use instead.
I get come from behind cards are extremely valuable and rare in hearthstone, but at some point the x% of times you play it and win a losing game doesn't outweigh the y% of times you lose because you have a dead card in your hand that isn't useful until you're solidly behind.
Yogg wasn't really OP. Blizzard's rationale for nerfing even basically said that Yogg was only just over the power curve in two decks. They have the stats for this kind of thing, so they knew how often it was winning games. The problem with Yogg was mostly about perception and whether or not a crazy card like Yogg should be deciding tournaments.
I know you're tempted as hell to reiterate "to everyone with half a brain", bruh.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
I fucking miss lightbomb.
Agree. For high level play Yogg needed some kinda changes. But up to my elo/rank (15), he didnt need anything (Yogg was so rare). I think they made great changes. They cant make everyone happy. But the complaining got out of hand they had to do something
Yeah a combination of Light Bomb, Justicar and Flash Heal actually made the Handlock match up favorable (IMO).
I was 45-10 with my Control Priest during the Secret Paladin/Grim Patron/Handlock days.
I think it was the fastest I ever made rank 5.
I wouldn't, but I don't play a ton of priest in Wild. I do play against it quite a bit and the ones I see with Flash heal are using Auchenai for a big burst or removal turns.
In nearly all cases Auchenai/Embrace the Shadow are just worse removals than Lightbomb. Either you are running those for the AoE clear potential with CoH or you are running a combo deck designed to do a huge burst turn. Flash Heal just for healing isn't really a thing that I've seen.
I run a couple copies in my shadow priest deck without auchenai, but I think that deck is more fun than good. It's a cheap heal for when I'm in shadowform, and there's synergy with priest of the feast and wild pyro
http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-20/
Shaman getting alarmingly close to peak Warrior. Priest getting close to extinction.
I think Mid-range Shaman has one of the highest ratings I've seen so far on their tier list (vs other meta decks). Good thing Blizzard are specifically targetting that deck with the nerfs next week.
Shaman getting alarmingly close to peak Warrior. Priest getting close to extinction.
I think Mid-range Shaman has one of the highest ratings I've seen so far on their tier list (vs other meta decks). Good thing Blizzard are specifically targetting that deck with the nerfs next week.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
According to tides freeze mage is one of the easiest decks to play in the game and you're delusional if you think otherwise. He is confirming my bias lol.
Last time I ran Priest I was running Flash Heal as a Priest of the Feast trigger... but that was low rank wild and I was mostly seeing aggro. Helped me get a Freeze Mage to concede when they Alexed and threw all their burn at my face and over a few turns I was back up to 20 HP.
I've never piloted freeze mage but I don't think it's hard to "delay delay delay delay OTK". Maybe the mirrors are tough, I dunno.
I've never piloted freeze mage but I don't think it's hard to "delay delay delay delay OTK". Maybe the mirrors are tough, I dunno.
It's both not that easy to play and not that difficult to play. Decisions and calculations have to be made but once you have played a few games of it or watched some games of it, you can generally create a road map on your own.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's very easy to play. It's been referred to as playing solitaire since the beginning of the game.
Some match ups/games are solitaire, others aren't. There are usually a lot of decisions to be made per game especially when you are being pressured (which is like 90% of the games). Like you may need to drop a naked Doomsayer vs saving it for Nova for a more optimum turn. You may need to use your Frostbolt early vs saving it for the Ice Lance combo. Balancing out using burn for damage and burn for removal is also important.
Calling the deck solitaire is over simplifying it. Every pro player has different opinions on it, some players think its one of the hardest decks to play optimally.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Freeze mage hard? LOL, I don't buy that argument for a second. Deciding whether to doomsayer "naked"... or using removal early? No, those aren't difficult decisions.
Freeze mage is even easier than face hunter.
LyleLanley
Banned
As long as you draw somewhat decent cards freeze mage pretty much plays itself.
slightconfuse
Banned
secret hunter has potential.
bear trap and cat in the hat are good
bear trap and cat in the hat are good
If you draw your relevant removal tools against a deck with no burst, Freeze Mage plays itself. Otherwise you have lots of little decision points that dictate whether or not you're going to have the burn to win the game. It's weakness is getting rushed down by aggro, which is a pretty massive hole in the current environment where even the so-called midrange decks are aggressive.
It will always be easier to play on curve and fight for the board than deciding whether or not to use a frostbolt on a minion to preserve your life, even though it may sacrifice upwards of 11 damage as part of your OTK.
slightconfuse
Banned
how would you guys help priest out because the way i see it paladin is a better version of priest
Solitaire is not easy, though....
Laughing has played over ten thousand games of Freeze Mage and still analyzes his lost games and figures out where he could've made a better play to win the game. Even Kiblar who despises the deck respects the skill and decision making that goes into the deck after conversing with various top players.
Maybe you should talk with these guys and see what they have to say, it might be enlightening. The examples I gave were very mild, every day examples... things get more complicated in real matches.
100% disagree. Watch Trump play his Alexstrasza freeze mage and then tell me that takes no skill. One misstep and he loses the game straight up
Now, I wonder if we're thinking of different freeze mage decks. The super high skill cap one is Alexstraza-IceBlock strategy
edit: You can literally see Trump making calculations on a whiteboard to compute his chances to draw all the cards he needs to lethal lol
Video of Trump playing Alexstrasza freeze mage (high skill cap)
And I'd argue playing Doomsayer at wrong time will get him pwned (unless you just want to distract the opponent for a turn)
[edit] It's not. I play the tier 3 concede shaman. Noxious made video where he played a unique control shaman running justicar / harison jones
And I'd argue playing Doomsayer at wrong time will get him pwned (unless you just want to distract the opponent for a turn)
[edit] It's not. I play the tier 3 concede shaman. Noxious made video where he played a unique control shaman running justicar / harison jones
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Still among the easiest decks in the game. In a game with a lot of randomness, of course it's difficult to play perfectly. I can quote pros too. Tides stated he hit rank 1 legend playing the deck taking 5 seconds per turn.
And sorry but choosing to play a doomsayer without frost nova or with it, it's not a difficult decision. And of course people hate face decks, so when I say freeze mage is as hard as a face deck, it's gonna get extreme reactions.
So? He doesn't need a whiteboard. You could do that with face hunter and it doesn't show it's any more difficult than it actually is.
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