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P

patchday

Member
Dahbomb said:
Class tier is something like this:

Tier 1:

Shaman, Druid, Warrior


Tier 2:

Mage, Hunter, Warlock


Tier 3

Paladin, Rogue


Tier 4

Priest



Rogue is easily a tier above Priest overall. You can bring Rogues to tournament and do well. You can play on Ladder with Rogue and do fine. Priest is just garbage. There are like 2 decks that Priest does well against and gets dumped on by everything else. There isn't a single Priest deck that I would consider better than tier 4.

Post nerf though it might end up with Shaman as a lone S tier class.
Click to expand...

sadly I agree. Got Priest quest this morning. quickly rerolled that to save myself frustration
 
L

Levi

Banned
manhack said:
I really wish control warrior wasn't the only viable control deck right now.
Click to expand...

And the most recent Data Reaper report has it at tier 3 in both Legend and regular ladder. >.< (I think it's a bit better than that, even if Hunter is having a bit of a resurgence.)

patchday said:
It's not
Click to expand...

It's the only control deck that people think is good in this meta. If you want to play control and give yourself the best chance to win, Warrior is your best bet.
 
M

manhack

Member
patchday said:
Video of Trump playing Alexstrasza freeze mage (high skill cap)

And I'd argue playing Doomsayer at wrong time will get him pwned (unless you just want to distract the opponent for a turn)


[edit] It's not. I play the tier 3 concede shaman. Noxious made video where he played a unique control shaman running justicar / harison jones
Click to expand...

I love concede shaman, but I was referring to a snippet from vS report:

Control Warrior is establishing itself as the most dominant Warrior archetype, while the rest of the Warrior spectrum is fading away. Being one of the only decks that are able to consistently fend off the Shaman class, and the last hope of control decks on ladder, players are seeking shelter from the Metagame tyrant by stacking armor.
Click to expand...

My main issue isn't that you can get to Rank 5 or even Legend with another control deck. There are plenty of decks that can get you there. The problem is that Tier 1 decks seem to flourish and overtake the meta. So instead of having interesting control games vs Paladin, Priest, Shaman, Warrior, etc. You have everyone jump on the Tier 1 control deck (Warrior) because of the ability to fend of Shaman.

The other factor is I don't want to hate Control Warrior. It has been around forever, but playing against it every other fucking game is soul crushing sometimes.
 
P

patchday

Member
Levi said:
It's the only control deck that people think is good in this meta. If you want to play control and give yourself the best chance to win, Warrior is your best bet.
Click to expand...

I see concede shaman still brought to tournament and that variant is tier 3.

I know its not considered tier 1 like Control Warrior but I would hazard a guess its worth playing?

But the matches just take so long. Even for Noxious his matches took 45 mins (for 3 matches) - edit

Another edit--->

manhack said:
I love concede shaman, but I was referring to a snippet from vS report:



My main issue isn't that you can get to Rank 5 or even Legend with another control deck. There are plenty of decks that can get you there. The problem is that Tier 1 decks seem to flourish and overtake the meta. So instead of having interesting control games vs Paladin, Priest, Shaman, Warrior, etc. You have everyone jump on the Tier 1 control deck (Warrior) because of the ability to fend of Shaman.

The other factor is I don't want to hate Control Warrior. It has been around forever, but playing against it every other fucking game is soul crushing sometimes.
Click to expand...

I'm too lazy to climb past rank 15 so I have no idea if its possible. I do have a good win rate with the deck at my 'rank'.

I hate fighting against Control Warrior but it has really improved my understanding of the game
 
L

Levi

Banned
I wish Control Mage had ended up being good. That was a brief moment after Karazhan when people thought it might enter the meta but it didn't end up happening.
 
P

patchday

Member
Yeah... As always I must defer to my higher ranked / more veteran gafs. I do prefer my Tempo Mage and sometimes alternate Freeze Mage

Never even looked up a Control mage ever til now lol

edit- I really do love the Hallazeal + Elemental Destruction combo. I get such satisfaction from it. But other cheaper decks are clearly better I agree
 
M

manhack

Member
patchday said:
Yeah... As always I must defer to my higher ranked / more veteran gafs. I do prefer my Tempo Mage and sometimes alternate Freeze Mage

Never even looked up a Control mage ever til now lol

edit- I really do love the Hallazeal + Elemental Destruction combo. I get such satisfaction from it. But other cheaper decks are clearly better I agree
Click to expand...

Yeah don't get me wrong. I have several variations of Control Shaman that I ran the last few months and they do really well for me. I think the fact they are Shaman kind of detracts from them seeing more play since mid-range/aggro is technically better.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
manhack said:
Yeah don't get me wrong. I have several variations of Control Shaman that I ran the last few months and they do really well for me. I think the fact they are Shaman kind of detracts from them seeing more play since mid-range/aggro is technically better.
Click to expand...
It's the Shaman Witch Doctor or Beast Druid dilemma. The decks are perfectly fine and strong on their own but better versions exist of the deck making them a bit redundant.
 
M

manhack

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Urgh there's just no climbing with Malygos rogue at rank 5. Everytime I make progress I queue into a couple shamans and am set back.
Click to expand...

I was doing Paladin/Warrior quest yesterday and got this:

hOwLvV8.png


I switched to arena for the rest of my play session. I'm extremely tempted to go for Legend next month with the patch changes. Hopefully the first few days of the patch with bring out some experimentation.
 
I

IceMarker

Member
I can't wait to hear about the new booster pack expansion at BlizzCon, they could do a whole lot
or nothing at all
with another 120+ card expansion.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Ripenen said:
Sorry if this question's been discussed before but why did Blizzard kill silence as an effect?
Click to expand...
Punishes usage of powerful minions and taunts which isn't fun.

Like you have a tough battle against an Aggro Hunter as Paladin, you survive until turn 8 and play Tirion... then the Hunter drops down Owl to silence Tirion and then continues to push face and kill you.

Though Spellbreaker still exists and I think the idea is that Blizzard didn't want Silence to be so tempo efficient on minions. You still have Earth Shock and the Priest 0 mana silence but it's probably fine to have class specific silence effects.
 
R

Ripenen

Member
Dahbomb said:
Punishes usage of powerful minions and taunts which isn't fun.

Like you have a tough battle against an Aggro Hunter as Paladin, you survive until turn 8 and play Tirion... then the Hunter drops down Owl to silence Tirion and then continues to push face and kill you.

Though Spellbreaker still exists and I think the idea is that Blizzard didn't want Silence to be so tempo efficient on minions. You still have Earth Shock and the Priest 0 mana silence but it's probably fine to have class specific silence effects.
Click to expand...

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Have they also dialed back on removal cards? Don't those also punish the use of big minions?
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Ripenen said:
Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Have they also dialed back on removal cards? Don't those also punish the use of big minions?
Click to expand...

It's not because they wanted big minions to be stronger. They wanted the choice to include silence in your deck to be a real decision and not auto-include. Because now adding silence to your deck makes your overall deck weaker as a result, silence is more of a choice.

If they wanted silence to not punish tirion, they'd have removed silence effects. They made it weaker so it's not a no brainer include.
 
R

Ripenen

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
It's not because they wanted big minions to be stronger. They wanted the choice to include silence in your deck to be a real decision and not auto-include. Because now adding silence to your deck makes your overall deck weaker as a result, silence is more of a choice.

If they wanted silence to not punish tirion, they'd have removed silence effects. They made it weaker so it's not a no brainer include.
Click to expand...

It's one thing to nerf the existing cards but is silence the only effect that's been discontinued?
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Ripenen said:
It's one thing to nerf the existing cards but is silence the only effect that's been discontinued?
Click to expand...

Hmm, discontinued? I think they've only printed 1 card with silence since the classic set and that was purify. I think they've been cautious about silence from the very beginning cause it's just that powerful.

edit
I slightly misread your post... I'll have to think about that a bit more. I think transforming minions hasn't seen much if any new additions, and by that I mean transforming enemy minions not transforming your own like with faceless manipulator. So hex and polymorph, although polymorph boar is a card.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
When do the changes go live?

I've got some downtime and considering just playing a whole bunch of Aggro Shaman games before switching up to midrange. I figure I have to get my Shaman win count up at some point before rotation swiftly kicks them back to Priest tier. While Priest is going to get over buffed because of the outcry.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
I just realized that they're introducing these changes on the first season where HCT points are no longer being awarded for the rest of the year. Way to go the extra mile to shit on your competitive player-base.
 
R

Ripenen

Member
Yaboosh said:
They haven't technically printed a charge card in the last few expansions. Call of the wild sort of counts.
Click to expand...

I didn't even realize that because there are a lot of charge cards still in use. It's relatively rare that I see an Ironbeak Owl or any of the other silence cards.
 
Z

zerokoolpsx

Member
No more OTK wars. That shit was annoying. I'll replace Totemic Tuskar once the patch is out. Everyone is gonna run cancer shaman until the nerfs are live haha.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Whipped up a Hunter deck to try in wild and already saw in the first game that someone killing your Mad Scientist with a spell immediately triggers Cat Trick if he pulls it.

Oh, mad scientist...what a card.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
Papercuts said:
Whipped up a Hunter deck to try in wild and already saw in the first game that someone killing your Mad Scientist with a spell immediately triggers Cat Trick if he pulls it.

Oh, mad scientist...what a card.
Click to expand...

I regret time and time again each moment people remind me that I didn't buy at least 1 wing of naxx... there are some very valuable cards there for wild.

Now I'm fucked if I want to go to wild
 
H

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
ran into a taunt shaman at rank 8

he got a discount off of far sight that let him drop earth elemental, ancestral spirit, and faceless manipulator on the same turn

damn that was dirty, lol
 
W

wiibomb

Member
Htown said:
ran into a taunt shaman at rank 8

he got a discount off of far sight that let him drop earth elemental, ancestral spirit, and faceless manipulator on the same turn

damn that was dirty, lol
Click to expand...

I found a similar shaman. the only thing is I left untouched his earth elemental and on the next turn he made a double faceless manipulator...

I just conceded
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
wiibomb said:
I regret time and time again each moment people remind me that I didn't buy at least 1 wing of naxx... there are some very valuable cards there for wild.

Now I'm fucked if I want to go to wild
Click to expand...
You can craft Naxx cards. I could have gotten the first wing for free but I thought I'd never play HS again and ignored all the reminders.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Papercuts said:
Whipped up a Hunter deck to try in wild and already saw in the first game that someone killing your Mad Scientist with a spell immediately triggers Cat Trick if he pulls it.

Oh, mad scientist...what a card.
Click to expand...


I don't love mad scientist in my hunter deck. But I don't run many secrets.

It is ridiculously good with medivhs valet in mages.
 
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