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- Thread starter ZealousD
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I don't hate him, I don't wish him ill, he's worked really, really hard to get where he is.
I just don't think he's genuine. He's playing a character, and that character I no longer find very entertaining.
If I still played arena I'd watch him despite that, because he's undeniably good at it and watching him might help me play better.
Not a fan of Kripp. but dang at the hate lol!
It's a bit too expensive for me but im looking forward to watch Kibler's and Forsen's runs.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Sounds good. If people all play shaman, I think they'll be in for a rude awakening.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I would counter the midrange shaman Heroic Brawl meta with the anti-midrange shaman version of midrange shaman, that has Argent Horserider instead of Barnes to kill spell-power totems, and Harrison Jones instead of Ragnoros because Ragnoros sucks against midrange shaman.
Also takes out 2 RNG cards which might help if the goal is going 12-2 or better.
Also takes out 2 RNG cards which might help if the goal is going 12-2 or better.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
aggro freeze mage >>>> midrange shaman
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Each legendary is like 30 packs of dust. 1k gold is 10 packs, 1k dust is like 10 packs, and add 50 packs... the reward for 12 wins is basically 160 packs for 10 dollars/1000 gold. Pretty good.
I'm not actually that enticed by the rewards oddly enough. It's a pretty dizzying amount.
I'm not actually that enticed by the rewards oddly enough. It's a pretty dizzying amount.
Thanks you've been such a great help. I've been messing up my mulligans sometimes which gets me off to a bad start
RecRoulette
Member
The real question is what do you get for going 1-3.
It takes the place of the weekly brawl, it's a paid Brawl but its still a brawl
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The more I think about it, the more I'm like... well, it's only 1k gold. Well, 900 gold because you get a pack even at 0 wins. How many wins could it take to "break even", 10 packs? So probably like 3 wins. That's a 50% win rate. A 60% winrate gets you like 5 wins. Maybe even profit at that point.
I don't think it is weekly though. It takes place of the regular brawl the week it is active.
I don't think it is weekly though. It takes place of the regular brawl the week it is active.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I assume at some point they're going to tell us all the reward tiers for this Heroic Brawl before it launches, right?
Are they really expecting players to have to spend $10 to find out until they can crowd source the information into a wiki?
Are they really expecting players to have to spend $10 to find out until they can crowd source the information into a wiki?
assume they are not.
I expect to find out the rewards tiers by watching some streamers playing it and gathering data through the HS reddit
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
They said they'll have a list of rewards.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I'm not as mad about this mode as some not do I think this is gambling.
That being said y'all have fun with this. I'm not dropping 1,000 gold on this cluster.
That being said y'all have fun with this. I'm not dropping 1,000 gold on this cluster.
Of course it is gambling. You put money or gold up to have a chance at winning a larger prize at the end or you lose most of your buy in if you lose.
Do you not think a poker tournament is gambling?
So, finally managed to get something good from a spectator pack, and first time getting a double leg. Pity that had them both and sucks that the second was Captain Greenskin.
Still, some dust for future use, especially when I don't see either one getting nerfed in the near distant future.
And this new Heroic Brawl sounds kinda interesting, pity it is just Standard without any extra rules. Though, depending how the win rewards go outside of going 12 wins, I could see myself dropping 1000 gold. But then, with my luck, I would go 0-3 instantly.
Still, some dust for future use, especially when I don't see either one getting nerfed in the near distant future.
And this new Heroic Brawl sounds kinda interesting, pity it is just Standard without any extra rules. Though, depending how the win rewards go outside of going 12 wins, I could see myself dropping 1000 gold. But then, with my luck, I would go 0-3 instantly.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I still firmly believe that hearthstone is a game of skill. Otherwise how else could someone maintain a 60-70% winrate with a tier 3 deck?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Following up on before if my calculations are correct then the odds to get 12 wins is 10.8% at a 60% winrate
Chance to win 12 in 12 tries at 0.6 + 12 in 13 + 12 in 14 + 12 in 15
Chance to win 12 in 12 tries at 0.6 + 12 in 13 + 12 in 14 + 12 in 15
Poker is a game of skill also. With luck elements. Like hearthstone.
Plenty of gambling games have large skill portions.
I could get lucky and beat a pro player ten times in a row, both in poker and hearthstone.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Many people don't consider poker to be gambling. Just because you make a bet or pay an entry fee, doesn't mean you're gambling. Just because there is an element of luck, doesn't mean you're gambling.
Yes. Yes it does mean you're gambling
The bet is what makes it gambling.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
No, sorry but you're wrong. Gambling is defined as betting something of value in a game where luck is the predominant factor. Luck is not the predominant factor in hearthstone. It's not the predominant factor in poker either.
BananasWithGuns
Member
So 7-8 wins to hit the break even point.
Doesn't seem worth it.
Maybe this is a better assessment. I guess it depends how you value dust.
Edit: Also I'm guessing by the way they have the rewards tiered that they don't expect many, if anyone at all, to hit that 12 win tier.
Doesn't seem worth it.
Maybe this is a better assessment. I guess it depends how you value dust.
Edit: Also I'm guessing by the way they have the rewards tiered that they don't expect many, if anyone at all, to hit that 12 win tier.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I see a pack as 100 dust, because I recall people did the analysis on classic packs. I think the other sets are different but I am not aware of what those differences are. So at 4 wins you lose about 100 gold.
At 5 wins you start profiting.
It's a pretty rough curve imo.
It looks to imitate a tournament reward system. The jump between 11 and 12 confirms that I think.
I mean, you're just coming up with a definition of gambling to fit your argument.
I'm pretty sure I have the worst luck vs Yogg in the entire game since the nerf.. I've faced 7 yoggs since the nerf. 0/7 of them killed themselves. 4/7 cast Call of the Wild. 5 of them absolutely changed the game's outcome.
Today I faced two in the row while trying to complete a quest with Maly Druid.
First had no board and I had Maly. I had lethal next turn with swipe. The Mage's Yogg casts Call, Ice Lances my Maly (out of the now 5 targets) and casts shatter, gains 8 armor and 4 secrets which didn't matter because after I dealt with Call of the Wild and a 7/4 I was low enough that a topdecked fireball ended the game so I didn't even get to proc the secrets.
The next game vs Rogue I was doing pretty good vs their burgle deck but once again I get fucked by Yogg. This the board after I mulched their divine shielded 10/5 Yogg and tried to draw for lethal (which got harder because they also gained armor.) Note that the only card on that board that they played from hand was Cairne, the rest of those minions were generated by Yogg Soron.
They also had a savage roar in hand, I don't know if it was from Yogg or from Burgle. I died at nearly full health one turn Yogg was played and all but 7 damage was generated by Yogg. Seems fair.
How unlucky is it that I have yet to see a Yogg kill themself? That I've only seen one that had no impact on the game at all? That 6/7 were incredibly good (and generated far above ten mana of value)? Isn't Yogg supposed to be a risky play?
I can't win vs Yogg and I get matched up with idiot players for whom Yogg is their win condition. Feels bad.
Today I faced two in the row while trying to complete a quest with Maly Druid.
First had no board and I had Maly. I had lethal next turn with swipe. The Mage's Yogg casts Call, Ice Lances my Maly (out of the now 5 targets) and casts shatter, gains 8 armor and 4 secrets which didn't matter because after I dealt with Call of the Wild and a 7/4 I was low enough that a topdecked fireball ended the game so I didn't even get to proc the secrets.
The next game vs Rogue I was doing pretty good vs their burgle deck but once again I get fucked by Yogg. This the board after I mulched their divine shielded 10/5 Yogg and tried to draw for lethal (which got harder because they also gained armor.) Note that the only card on that board that they played from hand was Cairne, the rest of those minions were generated by Yogg Soron.
They also had a savage roar in hand, I don't know if it was from Yogg or from Burgle. I died at nearly full health one turn Yogg was played and all but 7 damage was generated by Yogg. Seems fair.
How unlucky is it that I have yet to see a Yogg kill themself? That I've only seen one that had no impact on the game at all? That 6/7 were incredibly good (and generated far above ten mana of value)? Isn't Yogg supposed to be a risky play?
I can't win vs Yogg and I get matched up with idiot players for whom Yogg is their win condition. Feels bad.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm not just making up a definition of gambling, but how would you define it then? Any game with luck or variance outside of the player's control? I think you know that is not accurate. How would you define gambling if my definition is wrong?
No of course not. Hearthstone and poker are not inherently gambling just because luck is involved. They are gambling when you bet on the outcome.
Big jump between 8 and 9 wins as well. I would be salty if I lost at 8 wins.
This is not really worth it to attempt for the average player. 5 wins to start being within the profit range is a bit much though doable.
This mode is going to produce some salt that is for sure.
Another thing is that if there is match making involved. Like if you are matched up against other players who are 0-2 if you are also 0-2. That might make it easier to swallow.
This is not really worth it to attempt for the average player. 5 wins to start being within the profit range is a bit much though doable.
This mode is going to produce some salt that is for sure.
Another thing is that if there is match making involved. Like if you are matched up against other players who are 0-2 if you are also 0-2. That might make it easier to swallow.
hell 11 to 12 is even bigger i say.
I don't think this is worth it even for the best players.
The streamers are +EV simply because they will get a lot of views from it.
Yeah I was adding on that. 11 to 12 is clearly the biggest jump and I would be omega salty if I lost at 11 wins.
The high end rewards are nice and you can brag about it. I think top players will definitely attempt it because it's at least something new. In that regard the rewards almost don't matter for them but they are a nice plus no doubt.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So anything is gambling if there is a bet? Because there certainly is variance/luck in a lot of games that are not considered gambling. If you're not considering how much control someone has in the outcome, then anything with a bet is considered gambling. And the "bet" is actually an entry fee and not actually part of the stakes. On top of that, it's not like you buy in with 10 dollars and come away with 200 dollars.
I would be thrilled to get 11 wins lol... 2 golden legendary cards... is amazing. At 11 wins, I'd be like... "damn I already basically won, whatever happens next isn't gonna bring this hype train down"
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If we consider 4 wins break even players with a high constructed winrate are pretty much guaranteed at least that.
That swing of 34 packs though!
You will end up mulling over ever loss and every RNG instance. "Man if that guy didn't have that spell damage totem roll I woukd be 34 packs richer!"
If you bet on the outcome of a game where the best players have a 60% winrate, yes I would consider that gambling.
If you bet on something where the outcome is uncertain it is gambling.
The bet being an entry fee is irrelevant. You put up money to participate for the chance to get a large prize. Just because the vig is super high because blizzard is stingy doesn't change the fact it is gambling.
The chances of a person getting to 12 wins is less than 10% for the very best players. That is a slim chance.
Because of how matchmaking works in arena and presumably this mode, are a certain number of people guaranteed to get to twelve wins?
If you were randomly matched up to any other player, you should theoretically have less players getting to 12 wins.
If you always matched up ranks for games, then you'd always have SOMEBODY going to a higher level of wins, ensuring that people were reaching higher numbers of wins right?
I guess that assumes there are always players waiting to be matched at every number of wins.
If you were randomly matched up to any other player, you should theoretically have less players getting to 12 wins.
If you always matched up ranks for games, then you'd always have SOMEBODY going to a higher level of wins, ensuring that people were reaching higher numbers of wins right?
I guess that assumes there are always players waiting to be matched at every number of wins.
I think you are both operating on what most people percieved as gambling (money exchanging hands over the outcome of any event), versus what the actual english word gambling means (playing a game of chance with stakes which could be money or whatever). The distinction is small but relevant. For instance, sports betting (which is very similar to what happens if you are betting on ESports) is certainly gambling because the outcomes of the sporting events are in some ways random, yet no one denies that the sports themselves are skillful. Taking the bets on the outcomes is what constitutes gambling in this instance.
This new arena/constructed mode isn't exactly analogous to that but you could see it in a similar light. The player is wagering an entry fee vs the expected outcome of rewards for that fee. I think you can make an argument for this one either way and it comes down to player perception. If you think of the 1000g/$10 as some kind of entry fee, a sunk cost to participate that you can't get back, then it doesn't really feel like gambling anymore than playing the hearthstone ladder does. If you see it as a 1000g/$10 bet on your outcome, then it is a gambling decision with a wager.
For obvious reasons Blizzard would sell it as an entry fee, but I think it's pretty fair to see it the other way as well. I've already stated my preference to keep my money and spend it on 10 packs down the road, but I don't think people interested in proving they are the best are wrong to try this mode. I just know that I won't be.
Lord Jaraxxus doesnt suck. Sometimes it is an advantage to play something that's not quite in meta to surprise opponent. I use Jaraxxus on my Renolock in Wild. At least try it before dusting it to see if its fun. I even saw a streamer run it the other night in their dragon reno. I'll dig it up if time presents
[edit] Linky, savtz renolock
edit 2- gratz on your haul buddy!
I'd be surprised if they took up that many Brawl spots with this.
It's how they feed free packs to new players, and it's meant to be a mode that offers people more variety.
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