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[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'm bummed it isn't this week, the brawl sounds cool even if it is quite risky. I'm not loaded with gold like xanathus and I still might try it out once. But I also wanted to watch it on twitch. Hopefully soon means next week.

"the brawl might now be for everybody this week"

I caught that too, but it's possibly just an oversight for when they shot the video they then expected it to be this week.

 

[Yaboosh]

The clips of Reynad whining about the community ruining this for him will be more entertaining than watching streamers do the heroic tavern brawl.

 

[Dahbomb]

The clips of Reynad whining about the community ruining this for him will be more entertaining than watching streamers do the heroic tavern brawl.

Too late:

https://www.twitch.tv/reynad27/v/95603571?t=21m48s

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The clips of Reynad whining about the community ruining this for him will be more entertaining than watching streamers do the heroic tavern brawl.

And he'll be right. So much about this game caters to new players and the people who eat up the tavern brawl each week. For once they're doing a brawl for competitive, for one week, and people lose their shit.

Did they design this perfectly? No. They should have different tiers of entry. But it's not nearly as bad as people are claiming it is.

 

[QFNS]

I think Dahbomb's post on the previous page pretty accurately sums up everything anyone needs to know about this upcoming brawl. I have nothing more to add on that topic

I will watch the salty streamers and "pros" try their luck against real competition and enjoy the results. You can bet your bottom dollar though, that sniping will be prevalent. Even more than it already is on the ladder with the increased rewards, I wouldn't blame lots of players for not wanting to stream their attempts. Obviously the ones that make their living doing the streaming (Kripp, Trump, Reynad, Kibler, etc) are going to stream it but I would not be surprised to see all the major streamers fail to get to 12 (even pros who are too numerous to name), unless they change overlays to hide thier cards or run with delays. The incentive is too strong not to snipe.

 

[Yaboosh]

I think Dahbomb's post on the previous page pretty accurately sums up everything anyone needs to know about this upcoming brawl. I have nothing more to add on that topic

I will watch the salty streamers and "pros" try their luck against real competition and enjoy the results. You can bet your bottom dollar though, that sniping will be prevalent. Even more than it already is on the ladder with the increased rewards, I wouldn't blame lots of players for not wanting to stream their attempts. Obviously the ones that make their living doing the streaming (Kripp, Trump, Reynad, Kibler, etc) are going to stream it but I would not be surprised to see all the major streamers fail to get to 12 (even pros who are too numerous to name), unless they change overlays to hide thier cards or run with delays. The incentive is too strong not to snipe.

When streamers try hard they delay their streams 5-10 minutes.

 

[Dahbomb]

Feels like many people have different issues with it. Not everyone has the same issues with the Brawl.

Reynad is focusing specifically on people who don't have the foresight to save gold and since they can't financially pay for the Brawl, they look to down play it since they themselves can't participate in it.

I have the gold to participate in this Brawl and I don't have much Ladder anxiety (I have some but that's not why I wouldn't play this mode)... but I am not going to because a lot of it just doesn't entice me and I have other issues with it (that I listed).

I forgot to mention in my con post that the packs being a specific kind and not generic pack tokens that you can use to buy any pack types you want is also a bad thing. I do not want Old God cards at all, I have had my fill of them. Of course Blizzard will never give you pack tokens as then people would save them for the next expansion.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Being able to save gold is a luxury not foresight.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Reynad is focusing specifically on people who don't have the foresight to save gold and since they can't financially pay for the Brawl, they look to down play it since they themselves can't participate in it.

He is also talking about people ranting about expected value in a video game. About how every decision about the game caters to the casual/core audience and this is the first time they've done something specifically for the hardcore competitive audience. He wants to see a competitive mode for more competitive players.

Also about the whole gold thing. I think he accurately describes the attitude of a lot of people. They focus short term and don't think long term. They take the short term because they don't want to risk the long term. And hearthstone is largely low risk. You lose a game on ladder, you can earn that back in 10-20 minutes. Even arena is rather low risk. This mode will never appeal to risk adverse people, where for the first time in hearthstone you actually may end up losing something, even if it's just gold or a few dollars.

I expected more salt from reynad, but was surprised. Reynad is a smart guy, I shouldn't be surprised, but I expected more salt since you linked it.

I also was a little bit aware of MTGO leagues. I didn't know it was the same thing though. I read MTGO leagues has a higher risk, bigger rake than the heroic brawl.

 

[Pooya]

I have 2200gold on each server. I could have had 2k more if I didn't waste them. I saved gold for Karazhan but ended up getting it mostly with amazon credit but spent my gold anyway lol. I don't play much anymore past completing quests and that hurts my gold reserves a lot.

I have a looot of dust though, so I'm not concerned much. How many legendary cards are going to be playable in constructed from next set? like 5 max? I can cover that two times over. Epics usually sting the most though, I hate good epics.

 

[wiibomb]

I usually can save about 2K gold per month on average to open about 20 packs on the end of those 2K, because I like to do bulk openings

this time I'm not sure if I should be spending the 2K gold right away or may be wait more until they announce and release the next expansion. I'm about 25 packs without a Legenday in WOTG (last pack opening I got a wonderful 0 legendaries), so my pity timer is close.

and I totally refuse to pay for packs unless it is crazy deal like the welcome bundle

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I have 2200gold on each server. I could have had 2k more if I didn't waste them. I saved gold for Karazhan but ended up getting it mostly with amazon credit but spent my gold anyway lol. I don't play much anymore past completing quests and that hurts my gold reserves a lot.

I have a looot of dust though, so I'm not concerned much. How many legendary cards are going to be playable in constructed from next set? like 5 max? I can cover that two times over. Epics usually sting the most though, I hate good epics.

Probably more than 5 if you judge based on the OG. I think OG had a very high amount of playable legends.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't know how you don't see salt in that video when you see him constantly call other people who don't agree with his mindset "whiny, bitchy and pussies".

Also in that nickel/dime analogy, does he mean that today you get nickel vs getting a dime tomorrow and if you choose the nickel you don't get the second nickel tomorrow? Because I see no problem in taking the nickel today and then getting another nickel tomorrow but I don't think most people would choose to take a nickel today only vs doubling up by waiting (maybe I am wrong).

 

[slightconfuse]

i have a little over 1K gold. i could and will save more because there are not that many things i need dust wise.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I don't know how you don't see salt in that video when you see him constantly call other people who don't agree with his mindset "whiny, bitchy and pussies".

Also in that nickel/dime analogy, does he mean that today you get nickel vs getting a dime tomorrow and if you choose the nickel you don't get the second nickel tomorrow? Because I see no problem in taking the nickel today and then getting another nickel tomorrow but I don't think most people would choose to take a nickel today only vs doubling up by waiting (maybe I am wrong).

I said I expected more salt, not that there wasn't any salt. And barely. Maybe you don't watch Reynad much, but that is just his general language towards people who disagree with him on things he cares about.

Nickel today or dime tomorrow is just an adage used to explain people's attitudes towards risk and delayed gratification.

edit:
I'm watching this video by kripp and he says the entry fee counts for multiple entries? https://twitter.com/Kripparrian/status/788455863526785024

from the blog-

Heroic Brawl lasts for only one normal Tavern Brawl week and has an entry fee of $9.99 USD or 1000 gold. You can participate in Heroic Brawl for a limited amount of completed runs.

 

[Raxus]

My only problem with the heroic brawl is the rewards for losing. Typically in drafts all the money invested in it goes straight to your collection. In this case if you go 0-3 you paid for an 1000 gold pack.

 

[veryslowhand]

I have 3400, saving for the next expansion, will pass on heroic brawl.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

My only problem with the heroic brawl is the rewards for losing. Typically in drafts all the money invested in it goes straight to your collection. In this case if you go 0-3 you paid for an 1000 gold pack.

The heroic brawl is definitely not something you should play for an expectation on value being returned. I don't think anyone should play the brawl with an expectation that they'll definitely get more back than what they put in. I don't even think it is about expected value, it's about competing with something more on the line. And that doesn't appeal to most people. It doesn't really even appeal to me because I don't think I want to risk 1k gold with the upcoming expansion, but I'm not loaded with 10k gold and I don't spend money on the game...

 

[slightconfuse]

watching firebat play C'thun rogue looks fun.

might try it later

 

[Levi]

Disappointed it was delayed. Watching streams hasnt been quite as enjoyable lately since no one is grinding HCT points and ladder results don't matter, I was looking forward to watching excellent players try-hard for a while.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Disappointed it was delayed. Watching streams hasnt been quite as enjoyable lately since no one is grinding HCT points and ladder results don't matter, I was looking forward to watching excellent players try-hard for a while.

I like watching streamers play in tournaments. Could have been a week of really good content. So hopefully next week.

 

[Szadek]

I have the play a friend quest on EU.
If someone wants the gold, I'm Szadek#2301

 

[Levi]

I like watching streamers play in tournaments. Could have been a week of really good content. So hopefully next week.

Hopefully when they bring it back it's without taking into account everyone's "notes", ruining the mode to appease all the people personally offended that they made something that doesn't cater directly to them.

 

[veryslowhand]

is dragon priest any good in ladder? ranks 8-7

 

[Yaboosh]

Apparently battlepants who came in second on that arena winrate list is Hafus smurf account when she was doing a 10 for 100 run. She good yo.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Kind of shitty if Blizzard caved to the backlash from reddit over the heroic brawl. People need to learn to accept that not everything can be designed to fit every single person.

 

[Fersis]

Apparently battlepants who came in second on that arena winrate list is Hafus smurf account when she was doing a 10 for 100 run. She good yo.

Dang, legit good.
#RIPP KRIPP

 

[slightconfuse]

Kind of shitty if Blizzard caved to the backlash from reddit over the heroic brawl. People need to learn to accept that not everything can be designed to fit every single person.

maybe if they made this "Arena brawl" instead of a normal brawl people would not have lost thier shit. people really want their free pack

 

[Nirolak]

Caved? Did something change about the Brawl?

 

[BananasWithGuns]

Caved? Did something change about the Brawl?

Blizzard put out a tweet that said the brawl is not happening this week but the Designer Insights video and Ben Brode both heavily implied it would be this week so it seems like Blizzard delayed it due to the initial backlash.

 

[Dahbomb]

LMAO Kripp doesn't seem to know that Heroic Brawl is Standard Constructed. I bet him and a few other people are going to get a rude awakening.

 

[QFNS]

LMAO Kripp doesn't seem to know that Heroic Brawl is Standard Constructed. I bet him and a few other people are going to get a rude awakening.

If it was Wild I would be much more interested than I am. I would be considering doing it at least. I have 6k+ gold saved up but I'd throw out 1k to play some serious try hard meta in Wild. In Standard though? I have no interest at all.

 

[Yaboosh]

LMAO Kripp doesn't seem to know that Heroic Brawl is Standard Constructed. I bet him and a few other people are going to get a rude awakening.

He also seemed to think you get multiple entries for the 1000 gold.

 

[Ghazi]

LMAO Kripp doesn't seem to know that Heroic Brawl is Standard Constructed. I bet him and a few other people are going to get a rude awakening.

Oh boy

 

[fertygo]

If it was Wild I would be much more interested than I am. I would be considering doing it at least. I have 6k+ gold saved up but I'd throw out 1k to play some serious try hard meta in Wild. In Standard though? I have no interest at all.

Why you would fucking want secret pally arena?

its 1000x worse than mid-shamy fest

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Why you would fucking want secret pally arena?

its 1000x worse than mid-shamy fest

And the n'zoth archetype dominating nearly every deck is a problem too.

 

[Yaboosh]

Why you would fucking want secret pally arena?

its 1000x worse than mid-shamy fest

Secret paladin is way more beatable than midrange shaman. The frequency is the problem, not the power level.

And nzoths prevalence is a way bigger wild problem.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

It's amazing how often totem RNG screws me in this game. If I attack something with dagger, almost every time healing totem. I brought tunnel trogg to 1 hp, of course he gets healing totem. If I have a minion and they have spirit claws, they always get spell power.

 

[fertygo]

Secret paladin is way more beatable than midrange shaman. The frequency is the problem, not the power level.

And nzoths prevalence is a way bigger wild problem.

Secret pally, deathrattle, same shit..

btw I disappointed blizz back down again, I believe super tryhard meta with extreme tech for few deck would've interesting for at least to watch in super competitive streamer, now because everyone can play you can see some weak deck like in ladder so its less appealing to made extreme tech against mid shaman

For example I think Rogue matchup against shamy is like 40 - 60 but 60 - 40 vs Control Warrior

But Rogue with extreme tech maybe can had 45 - 55 ratio and still favorable against warrior, its can be interesting pick for the brawl.. now everyone can play, so eh, its just the same thing

Edit : bleh I'm mistaken

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Secret pally, deathrattle, same shit..

btw I disappointed blizz back down again, I believe super tryhard meta with extreme tech for few deck would've interesting for at least to watch in super competitive streamer, now because everyone can play you can see some weak deck like in ladder so its less appealing to made extreme tech against mid shaman

For example I think Rogue matchup against shamy is like 40 - 60 but 60 - 40 vs Control Warrior

But Rogue with extreme tech maybe can had 45 - 55 ratio and still favorable against warrior, its can be interesting pick for the brawl.. now everyone can play, so eh, its just the same thing

You're right. Secret paladin runs N'zoth, it runs the deathrattles just naturally. This makes secret paladin a double whammy, worst of both issues.

I can't even imagine playing TGT+LOE meta with the nerfed classic cards. Weaker silence, weaker BGH, two great cards against secret paladin were nerfed.

 

[Pooya]

Secret paladin could draw bad or when you dealt with their stuff it was over, poor draws doesn't really apply to midrange shaman, that's how stupid the cards are. Shaman's hero power is far too strong with all the synergies right now, no class has had this many synergy cards with their hero power ever. They can out tempo anything, they can outvalue anything. I think it's a lot harder to counter shaman with the tools we have now that it was with secret paladin. I had a ridiculous winrate against secret paly with oil rogue back in the day. got 2 times legend with rogue like that. With the card pool right now, shaman doesn't have that many weaknesses, winning on board is really hard, if you had board against secret paladin, you were favored to win. They didn't have the clears shaman has.

 

[slightconfuse]

Just won a game with a doomhammwr off a swash buckler

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Ok I didn't care too much about the Heroic Tavern brawl until now. Kinda don't want to reroll a 60

Actually if there's still a normal tavern brawl this week that's fine

 

[ZealousD]

Also in that nickel/dime analogy, does he mean that today you get nickel vs getting a dime tomorrow and if you choose the nickel you don't get the second nickel tomorrow? Because I see no problem in taking the nickel today and then getting another nickel tomorrow but I don't think most people would choose to take a nickel today only vs doubling up by waiting (maybe I am wrong).

It's a human psychology thing. A lot of people will actually take less money for instant gratification. Most lottery winners take their earnings as a lump sump rather than a structured recurring payment even though there's less money in the lump sum.

Relevant: The Marshmellow Test

Of course, Reynad has a tremendous amount of donations that he uses to buy card packs en masse and therefore doesn't even have to worry about gold, so it's not like he's in any place to lecture other people about how they manage their gold.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Beating shaman is like tackling a major boss. https://hsreplay.net/replay/Wwzcf9ARKB7zBZzgCNbbJZ

Losing to face warrior is like losing to a trash pull when your party is afk. https://hsreplay.net/replay/7sx8nKapiUsCamFXyn3ZeP

Of course, Reynad has a tremendous amount of donations that he uses to buy card packs en masse and therefore doesn't even have to worry about gold, so it's not like he's in any place to lecture other people about how they manage their gold.

That's also money he has to live off of like anyone else with a job, to be fair. He more gets a leg up because he gets to play many many hours a day, then again he has a full time job running tempostorm too.

 

[Yaboosh]

Pirate warrior is anti fun to play as and against, just like any other face deck.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

With Strifecro really hammering home the point of how good hero powering is for Shaman right now, I'm a bit surprised Frost Giant hasn't found its way into some of the greedier midrange Shaman decks, especially post nerf.

 

[Eddie Bax]

It's a human psychology thing. A lot of people will actually take less money for instant gratification. Most lottery winners take their earnings as a lump sump rather than a structured recurring payment even though there's less money in the lump sum.

Not to ignore your point about instant gratification (which is true), and totally off topic, but it is usually better to take the lump sum if you win a big jackpot, taking into account the combo of getting interest over time on the full lump sum (if you invest the money and don't just piss it away) + avoiding inflation eating away at the real value of the annuity payments.

 

[QFNS]

Why you would fucking want secret pally arena?

its 1000x worse than mid-shamy fest

I disagree. I would happily play against secret paladin every day (and frequently do, since I play Wild ladder often). The deck is not unbeatable. It loses to bad draws, you can win agaist it late with N'Zoth, or simply have too much pressure for it to handle, or GET RICH with Reno and wipe their board (and then still have Healbots to use). Wild is much more stable for decks trying to play a control game. Also Flare and Eater of Secrets are frequently seen in decks which makes Mr. None of Your Business not so scary.

Secret paladin is way more beatable than midrange shaman. The frequency is the problem, not the power level.

And nzoths prevalence is a way bigger wild problem.

And this response reiterates what I said above in less words. N'Zoth is basically slotted in forever as a 1x in all Wild decks until the end of time unless they go back and change old Naxx/GvG cards to be less OP. The prevalence of N'Zoth is so high in fact, that if there was a card that removed only him and the minions he summoned but did nothing else for any other card, I bet it would see some play in Wild. Not in every deck, but it would show up when laddering.

As I have said before, despite the N'Zoth issues, Wild has a more diverse meta and more interesting game IMO. Maybe this is due to the small player base, or maybe due to less people try harding. I don't know, but I do like it more. And I'd give it 1000g one time to see what people actually think is the best deck. I don't think Secret Pally would be enough in that type of environment. The hate for secrets would be too good and Hunters or Eater of Secrets would destroy you on the swing turns too often to be the best deck in that format. When you take the incentive for fast games out of the meta (which is why a lot of laddering and legend focused decks are aggro and midrange), the equation becomes a bit different IMO. I think that would be enough that something else would have a shot at being dominant there. Hard to say, and I suspect that we never see Blizzard promote Wild much anyhow so it's a moot point.

 

[thepotatoman]

Secret paladin could draw bad or when you dealt with their stuff it was over, poor draws doesn't really apply to midrange shaman, that's how stupid the cards are. Shaman's hero power is far too strong with all the synergies right now, no class has had this many synergy cards with their hero power ever. They can out tempo anything, they can outvalue anything. I think it's a lot harder to counter shaman with the tools we have now that it was with secret paladin. I had a ridiculous winrate against secret paly with oil rogue back in the day. got 2 times legend with rogue like that. With the card pool right now, shaman doesn't have that many weaknesses, winning on board is really hard, if you had board against secret paladin, you were favored to win. They didn't have the clears shaman has.

It's like the days of Warsong/Patron or Force/Savage not having a good counter, but without those random games that they don't draw the combo pieces that make their deck good.