Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The best card rogue could receive would be something like, deal weapon damage to all enemies and destroy your weapon. Lets call it Dagger Flurry. Lets make it cost 0 just because.
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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cool thx. I'll probably wait for Friday b4 I do it tho.
I remembered when I first started I was a dedicated rogue main. Those were some really bad times yo. as soon as I switched to other classes I saw how much easier it was to make a half decent deck. They need to give that class some normal/rare cards to make it easier to play for newbies
Not sure why.
LoE and WoG have been their best and most creative card expansions - by a margin.
Senjin is the most reliable card printed in Hearthstone. I put that card in my deck when I first started playing I still play that card in my Renolock.
Thanks for the feedback!
I've played about another 10 games with the deck. My current W/L ratio is 6 / 8. Two of those were against Mage (who feels like a instant loss) and Rogue (which also feels unfavored.) I went up from rank 15 to rank 12 before double mage and rogue sent me back to 13.
Otherwise, the deck seems to be performing well against C'thun Warrior and Yogg Druid, though loses to C'thun Druid. I haven't really used it enough to say I'm playing it to its full potential. I'm a Priest player, so the shift from reactive, value-oriented play to this aggressive, I guess tempo-y style is jarring...lol.
I will say that it feels like the Murloc Package is too fragile. Murloc Knight feels like it can't be played before turn 6 (usually when I want to play Dr. 6.) Often times, I get to turn 6 but have almost no board so Dr. 6 doesn't do as much.
You've clearly done well with it though, so I'm just not playing it right. I think I'll keep playing it a bit longer though because I really like the murlocs. Also, Redemption with Tirion is probably one of the dirtiest things I've seen in Hearthstone.
Are you still playing it now? Do you mind if I jump in and watch a few games? I'm candyFrog on your friend's list.
what your btag? kinda want to spectate lul
Princess Carl
Member
Yup the viable deck variety is where it should be after this many adventures and expansions. Oh wait that's not true at all.
One class has like 5 viable decks and only one class is really bad. It's never been MORE true since before Naxx.
Their last two expansions have been very good.
Well there's like 12+ meta deck out there, that's a lot for HS meta standard, not talking about playstyle doe and like 7 of them is Warrior
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Deck variety and class variety are different things.
FormallyFamicom
Member
I think this has more to do with them deleting GvG and Naxx than anything. Which kinda sucks since it implies that the meta will be half assed until the card count is at that level again, EVERY year.
I'm not sure how anyone can look at the current meta and think there's less variety in either cards or decks than there was before the rotation. I could understand people bitching about class diversity, because Warriors are everywhere - but no card or deck diversity?
When you mulligan against Warrior now, you're probably not sure what deck they're playing. Could be Tempo or Dragon or C'Thun Control. Probably less likely, but it could be Wargen OTK or Pirate or even classic control. Every class but Priest and maybe Rogue has mulitple viable decks.
In the months leading up to standard: you see a Paladin, you know it's secret. You see a Shaman, you know it's Aggro. You see a Druid, you know it's Midrange. It's soooo much better now.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I think right now there might be the most deck variety there's ever been in Hearthstone. The only issue is Warrior has 4 of the best decks in the game so they're just everywhere right now. But really, when you consider Warrior has 4-5 viable decks, Shaman has 3-4 viable decks, Druid has 2-3 viable decks, Hunter has a couple viable decks and Mage, Rogue, Warlock and Paladin all have at least one viable deck I'd say things are pretty solid right now in terms of variety.
While I'd like to see more options for the latter 4 classes (and anything at all for Priest), Blizzard has absolutely knocked it out of the park with LoE and WOG, especially when you look back at Naxx and GvG. Even Blackrock has turned out to be pretty solid as well.
While I'd like to see more options for the latter 4 classes (and anything at all for Priest), Blizzard has absolutely knocked it out of the park with LoE and WOG, especially when you look back at Naxx and GvG. Even Blackrock has turned out to be pretty solid as well.
That's a massive stretch of what "viable" means. Certainly not competitively viable because there's definitely only one strong Hunter deck and one strong Mage deck. I have also only seen one Druid deck do work.
Though I do agree that things are better than what it has been in the past. There has never been a time where one class has had 4+ strong decks. The ideal that Blizzard is aiming for is what they did for Warriors but for all classes. Still got a ways to go but at least it's getting there.
Wild actually has better class diversity. Every class has strong options/decks, even Priest. But deck diversity is sketchy because everyone is playing Deathrattle non sense with Nzoth finishers and of course Secret Paladin the god (who also uses Deathrattle non sense with Nzoth finisher).
Though I do agree that things are better than what it has been in the past. There has never been a time where one class has had 4+ strong decks. The ideal that Blizzard is aiming for is what they did for Warriors but for all classes. Still got a ways to go but at least it's getting there.
Wild actually has better class diversity. Every class has strong options/decks, even Priest. But deck diversity is sketchy because everyone is playing Deathrattle non sense with Nzoth finishers and of course Secret Paladin the god (who also uses Deathrattle non sense with Nzoth finisher).
If pally get that little piece at this adventure its would've an nice round, they kinda weak right now but unlike Priest they only need few more pieces for rise in power level.. their card quality right now is goddamn good but its just lacking that couple card that gelling everything together like Minibot and Muster used to provide, and now its Ravaging Ghoul and Blood to Ichor being link for every warrior deck. if they get it at this adventure I even dare to say they might've better than Shaman.
Priest is beyond few card from what can provided at adventure for being strong, Priest, Rogue and I even gonna being little controversial here, Mage really need boost at next expansion.
Priest is beyond few card from what can provided at adventure for being strong, Priest, Rogue and I even gonna being little controversial here, Mage really need boost at next expansion.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Viable in the sense that you can take the deck on ladder and have success with it. There are probably close to two dozen decks right now that can see reasonable success on ladder when piloted by a decent player. That's more than I ever remember there being.
irfaanator
Banned
the feels when you win against a hunter after the game and servers shits the bed and you miss your turn two play
By that definition we have always had 20 decks that you can take on ladder and do well enough. People have always used Face Warrior and Tempo based Warrior decks in the past but they weren't that good, no where near as good as they are right now.
Even back in the Grim Patron days, you still had a lot of decks that could be run despite there being this "broken" deck online.
Paladin - Secret Paladin, Midrange Paladin
Warrior - Grim Patron, Control Warrior
Warlock - Zoolock, Demonlock, Malylock, Classic Handlock, Combolock (back then Warlock was the Warrior of today with multiple deck types)
Druid - Combo Druid, Ramp Druid
Hunter - Aggro Hunter, Hybrid Hunter, Midrange Hunter
Mage - Tempo Mage, Freeze Mage, Mech Mage
Priest - Control Priest, Dragon Priest
Rogue - Oil Rogue
Shaman - Midrange Shaman, Mech Shaman
This is pre-LoE/pre Warsong nerf, post TGT BTW. Though that brief time with post Warsong nerf and pre-LoE had one of the worst metas because Secret Paladin was probably at peak power level and it was 3 decks that ran everything (Secret Paladin, Zoo, Combo Druid). LoE added in Aggro Shaman and a more refined control Warlock deck but those other decks still dominated for quite some time until Standard hit.
Secret Paladin is so strong that in Wild EVERY deck I see runs Eater of Secrets. And even when they play Eater of Secrets against MC, they STILL lose sometimes...
Even back in the Grim Patron days, you still had a lot of decks that could be run despite there being this "broken" deck online.
Paladin - Secret Paladin, Midrange Paladin
Warrior - Grim Patron, Control Warrior
Warlock - Zoolock, Demonlock, Malylock, Classic Handlock, Combolock (back then Warlock was the Warrior of today with multiple deck types)
Druid - Combo Druid, Ramp Druid
Hunter - Aggro Hunter, Hybrid Hunter, Midrange Hunter
Mage - Tempo Mage, Freeze Mage, Mech Mage
Priest - Control Priest, Dragon Priest
Rogue - Oil Rogue
Shaman - Midrange Shaman, Mech Shaman
This is pre-LoE/pre Warsong nerf, post TGT BTW. Though that brief time with post Warsong nerf and pre-LoE had one of the worst metas because Secret Paladin was probably at peak power level and it was 3 decks that ran everything (Secret Paladin, Zoo, Combo Druid). LoE added in Aggro Shaman and a more refined control Warlock deck but those other decks still dominated for quite some time until Standard hit.
Secret Paladin is so strong that in Wild EVERY deck I see runs Eater of Secrets. And even when they play Eater of Secrets against MC, they STILL lose sometimes...
Karsticles
Member
Meanwhile, in the current meta there is only one viable Warlock archetype.
Renolock is viable but I wouldn't put it near most of the top decks right now. Too many bad match ups.
Arcane Golem nerf killed Combolock, people try to play that with Leeroy but nah that does not fly these days with so many Warriors.
Molten Giant nerf killed classic Handlock IMO. No one respects that deck at all, if you aren't running Reno then you are just a fragile deck with low tempo.
Malylock people can try experimenting with again to be honest but even back in the day it was kinda flavor of the month. Plus with no Dark Bombs it's definitely a lot worse.
Demon themed Warlock decks were killed because Void Caller and Malganis got banned out. Ain't NO ONE gonna play some of those other demons without ways to cheat them out with Void Caller.
Since then Blizzard hasn't really filled the holes left by those cards leaving or being nerfed so Warlock is shoehorned into playing what they have always played. Please no more god damn Zoo/Flood cards in the new adventure.
Arcane Golem nerf killed Combolock, people try to play that with Leeroy but nah that does not fly these days with so many Warriors.
Molten Giant nerf killed classic Handlock IMO. No one respects that deck at all, if you aren't running Reno then you are just a fragile deck with low tempo.
Malylock people can try experimenting with again to be honest but even back in the day it was kinda flavor of the month. Plus with no Dark Bombs it's definitely a lot worse.
Demon themed Warlock decks were killed because Void Caller and Malganis got banned out. Ain't NO ONE gonna play some of those other demons without ways to cheat them out with Void Caller.
Since then Blizzard hasn't really filled the holes left by those cards leaving or being nerfed so Warlock is shoehorned into playing what they have always played. Please no more god damn Zoo/Flood cards in the new adventure.
Renolock actually good against Dragon Warrior for some reason, but you tilted so hard against other aggro n hunter
that one game you circle around slow Warrior n Yogg druid is a bliss tho
I think its tier 2, its perform well in high rank n legend, don't you dare try to climb from teen rank with it
that one game you circle around slow Warrior n Yogg druid is a bliss tho
I think its tier 2, its perform well in high rank n legend, don't you dare try to climb from teen rank with it
That's the only way I got rank 5 with the Lock. Even then I lost some of those match ups LMAO!
And Dragon Warrior is not that a great match up. If you get board clears and removals on time, yeah it's fine but in reality what happens is that they get out Alex Champion out fast and with no Dark Bomb you end up taking 9 damage from a 2 drop minion (because it has charge) and you are trying to play catch up for the rest of the game. Quite a few of the minions in the deck are just past the board AOEs.
The problem is the lack of variety in viable strategies not decks, everything more or less comes down to who can snowball on board and win. That's boring and the game has had much much better days than now.
It's not surprising that in a meta like that, priest, mage and rogue that mostly rely on spells or card combinations and have minions that are generally well below the stat curve are at the bottom, and that stat curve is being pushed up every set.
The spells in the game right now are just not strong enough, if spells go 1 for 1 with a minion, that's really really bad for you. If I'm playing rogue and I have to just backstab and evis everything in turn 1-5 just to survive, not to get ahead, your game has serious balance issue. I shouldn't have to evis a 1-2 drop or lose, that's crazy...
You play spells because they're (or should be) stronger than minions and help you get ahead but that's completely reversed right now, that's not an interesting direction imo.
so I like to see new stronger spells in this adventure. We have a few good spells from classic left in the game that see play like hellfire, brawl etc but most classes don't have anything like those.
It's not surprising that in a meta like that, priest, mage and rogue that mostly rely on spells or card combinations and have minions that are generally well below the stat curve are at the bottom, and that stat curve is being pushed up every set.
The spells in the game right now are just not strong enough, if spells go 1 for 1 with a minion, that's really really bad for you. If I'm playing rogue and I have to just backstab and evis everything in turn 1-5 just to survive, not to get ahead, your game has serious balance issue. I shouldn't have to evis a 1-2 drop or lose, that's crazy...
You play spells because they're (or should be) stronger than minions and help you get ahead but that's completely reversed right now, that's not an interesting direction imo.
so I like to see new stronger spells in this adventure. We have a few good spells from classic left in the game that see play like hellfire, brawl etc but most classes don't have anything like those.
Well no one survive coin Champion + Champion either, I think its less tilting than other aggro is because if your survive first 4 turn, you okay.. Drag Warrior turn 5-7 is very weak, its perfect spot to stabilize.. other aggro not have that weak turn 5-7, but yeah.. in most case its not work that way lol
btw you run Leeroy Reno or N'zoth reno?
I was running Classic Handlock btw just as an experiment. I tried Leeroy Reno but now have settled with Nzoth Reno now, it feels more stable.
Dragon Warriors have very powerful turn 5-7 plays LMAO... turn 5 they have Azure Drakes and Blackwing Corruptors. Turn 6 they have Drakonid Crushers which at that point is most likely going to be a 9/9. Turn 7 they can bust down a Malkorok and turn 8 a Rag or a Grommash. You don't feel safe until you have a taunted up board or they have run out of cards. Worst is if their final card is a Deathwing and you don't have a removal/taunt to stop it... damn that feels bad.
That's the thing though... these tempo decks just keep dishing out the pain pretty late. Back in the day when it was just aggro, those decks would curve out very low and would run out of steam quicker... now you got 4 mana 7/7s, 2 mana 5/5s with taunt, 2 mana 3/3 chargers and 6 mana 9/9s with minions that grow in strength over time if you let them sit for more than a turn. Oh and Call of the Wild.
It's interesting because I think Zoo is waning and Reno is waxing because of the Warrior dominance on ladder. The N'Zoth variant has strong match-ups against C'Thun and Tempo Warrior and I think is probably close to even against Dragon. Trump recently dropped N'Zoth Paladin from a tournament line-up because he felt Renolock was strictly better against Warrior as a whole.
Either way, there are definitely two good Warlock decks now. Most of the niche variants of Warlock were not-existent before standard as Renolock was easily the most common Warlock deck during LoE.
Turn 5 Drag Warrior is strong if they can be reactive, if you can play around Corruptor's target you can be fine, from my experience from that turn 5 onward you get nice target for efficient trade because drake n corruptor low HP and efficient use of your removal for Drakkonid that already out minion'd, only if you winning of course, that the hardest part of course lmao
Yeah Nzoth variant is more stable, less dead card, Strifecro actually drop doomsayer n kodo for more one drop, I want to try that.
I hold out hope that WotOG was a fluke that predated Standard and the nerfs, or else a lot of the card design in that set becomes super questionable.
Like nerfing Blade Flurry and then giving Rogues fuck all for new weapons. Or deleting most of the good Priest cards in Standard and replacing them with... nothing.
Like nerfing Blade Flurry and then giving Rogues fuck all for new weapons. Or deleting most of the good Priest cards in Standard and replacing them with... nothing.
veryslowhand
Banned
is the new adventure announced today?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Tonight ~11pm pacific, 2am EST. I'll probably watch it (I'm EST) if I remember to change from netflix.
After a few weeks of abstinence I'm slowly beginning to play Hearthstone again. Inspired by a Kripp video I watched a while back, I'm trying to do a N'Zoth Mage deck. I'm not good ad deckbuilding and if I try it on ladder I won't get the right conclusions to improve it. Anyone got some suggestions?
I'd personally take out those cheap deathrattle minions, add 2 Azure Drakes and Chillmaw. Maybe even Doomsayer/Frost Nova if you're going for a more control-style deck. You could also convert it to Reno if you want. Not that many changes from your current deck.
Last adventure came out right after.
The first wing of LOE was released a week after the announcement.
Thanks I have only been playing a few months so haven't really seen how they roll out content. Hopefully they put out some good Paladin cards. I crafted Lightlord to go with my Tirion but haven't found many good Pally decks for Ranked.
I have an issue with how Track-o-bot determines archetypes. How the fuck is a Shaman who runs Flamewreathed and Doomhammer "midranged"?
I would probably lose to an actual midranged deck. Brain dead aggro shamans giving me free cards off their BrokeBack Hammer is easy wins. Baron Geddon does work, too, clearing their whole shitty board every turn.
I keep getting super close to beating hunters, and then they have quickshot / kill command for lethal after their Call of the Skill turn. Oh well, Getting sick being free to hunters but whatever.
I have an issue with how Track-o-bot determines archetypes. How the fuck is a Shaman who runs Flamewreathed and Doomhammer "midranged"?
I would probably lose to an actual midranged deck. Brain dead aggro shamans giving me free cards off their BrokeBack Hammer is easy wins. Baron Geddon does work, too, clearing their whole shitty board every turn.
I keep getting super close to beating hunters, and then they have quickshot / kill command for lethal after their Call of the Skill turn. Oh well, Getting sick being free to hunters but whatever.
You can edit the deck archetype it automatically assigns though, if you want a more accurate match-up record. It's kinda annoying, but I just go through my history and re-assign any decks I think it missed every few days.
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