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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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I'm going to make a wild prediction that such a deck that relies on bouncing back lots of cards and play them again would be really bad, inconsistent at best.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I wish Paladin had gotten jade golem instead.
I think they wanted to avoid giving it to Warrior, Priest, or Paladin because they could presumably survive an incredibly long time and consistently churn out ridiculous golems.
We've already seen some evidence that the Druid Jade Golem deck will use fatigue as their win condition. Maybe the idea is that each of the three classes has a distinct way to utilize their jade golem deck. Druid fatigues. Rogue uses bounce shenanigans to generate multiple golems per turn. Shaman.... does something else.
One of the ways you might solve that inconsistency would be to print redundant cards.
Aka, exactly what seems to be the case with Gadgetzan Ferryman.
I mean, I guess that card has the advantage over Youthful Brewmaster, that you could play it early without needing to return a card to hand. I don't think people would run it though. Maybe if it was a 2/4 or 3/3.
Also, why isn't the card a Pandaren Brewmaster of some sorts? It being some weird fish thing doesn't fit thematically.
Also, why isn't the card a Pandaren Brewmaster of some sorts? It being some weird fish thing doesn't fit thematically.
We did see that with the goons.
Paladin buffs many units for less, Hunter buffs singular units to enable powerful effects, and Warrior buffs taunts and weapons.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
they did print that Druid card OTOH. Also druid has some of the most versatile healing in the game since they can heal and armor up
Druid importantly doesn't have good removal to go along with that healing/armor though.
It's arguably the safest survival class to put this mechanic on because of that.
What happens if you bounce a jade golem to your hand and play it again with shadowcaster or something else? Technically you summoned a jade golem but I'm pretty sure it's not going to count as one and get stat buff.
If you want to solve the consistency problem, there are only 2 minions plus a legendary so far you can play in rogue that summon a jade golem. That's not enough. bouncing and replayng 4 mana and 6 mana minions sounds like fool's jade alright. yeah shadowcaster, works everytime.
Shaman's thing is probably their legendary.... that changes their hero power into summon a jade golem lol. the theme seems to be infinite value overall, that's the only way they can do that in shaman. A card like Jaraxxus pretty much.
If you want to solve the consistency problem, there are only 2 minions plus a legendary so far you can play in rogue that summon a jade golem. That's not enough. bouncing and replayng 4 mana and 6 mana minions sounds like fool's jade alright. yeah shadowcaster, works everytime.
Shaman's thing is probably their legendary.... that changes their hero power into summon a jade golem lol. the theme seems to be infinite value overall, that's the only way they can do that in shaman. A card like Jaraxxus pretty much.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
neither does Paladin
. Don't mind my complaining I'm just still super salty about the state of paladin.You generate a new jade golem each time you play a jade golem card. You don't grow the existing jade golem that's already on the board.
Agreed. If this is the plan we have not seen all the pieces, unless they're going all in on Jade Spirit, which I don't think they are. There are plenty of Rogue cards we have yet to see in this set.
The Jinyu are one of the races from Pandaria: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Jinyu
You will notice a lot of Hozen (monkey people) in the cards as well.WoW Wiki said:
yeah, they would need animation that transforms the token to bigger one as it's played. I don't think we're getting that.
Why...they could have at least had it add some sort of discount like Shadowstep so it doesn't feel like a totally unimaginative and pointless card.
Kinda of like Youthful Brewmaster but you sort of get a choice if you want to return something to your hand or not.
One reason they could have printed that card is that Rogue is going to get a super-efficient 0/1-mana minion with a battlecry that summons a Jade Golem, so you're going to want to immediately return that minion to hand after playing. Imagine a 1 mana 1/1 Battlecry summon a Jade Golem. Turn 3 you play it, Shadowstep it, play it again, Ferryman it. You now have a 1/1, 2/2, and 2/3 on board on turn 3, and a 1 mana 1/1 + 3/3 next turn.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Many good cards don't see play. The reason menagerie doesn't see play is obviously because there isn't a competitive murloc/dragon/beast deck. It's not because it's a bad card.
It's possible a 4 mana 4/3 is much much better than a 5 mana 4/5 given the right meta for it, but in general that simply isn't the case. Health is valued that much higher than attack and we're talking 2 point difference. 4/3 is a statline that has always existed, at 3 mana and never played. And yet for 1 mana more, yeti, saw play in classic era.
You argue that a 4/3 is better because you might not get value out of a higher health minion on turn 4, but actually very few 4 attack 3 drops are played. A 3/4 houndmaster, in general, would actually be stronger than 4/3 houndmaster. Beyond just minion based line ups, far more 3 damage removal spells are played than 4 damage. This makes it far more likely that your opponent has efficient removal to swing the board back in their favor. This is obviously a huge deal in hearthstone, and for tempo based classes like hunter. Within the AOE category, it's not even close.
Your loot hoarder example actually isn't that clear one way or the other. I think yes 2/1 is better, but that is because it's deathrattle and you actually want it to die. Novice engineer used to be 1/2 and used to be played in nearly every deck, whereas loot hoarder rarely saw play by comparison. 1 health novice engineer sees almost zero play. It's not just a preference to use higher health minions, it's a result of the strength of high health.
I haven't ignored the mana difference. I have accounted for them in my valuation of each card. They both are 1 mana short of hitting their cost when they don't hit something, and they're both 1 mana ahead. From the start I pointed out that sensei is 1 mana more expensive, but it is made up for by the better stat allocation. 5 mana 4/5 > 4 mana 4/3 imo, and it's not even a small difference. 3 health is just much much easier to deal with, while 5 health is much more difficult.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I can accept these niche cards. Sometimes you'll get it off discover and you'll be like... holy shit I can play n'zoth twice.
This one feels uninspired though. Maybe they print a fandral type synergy card for combo. There is one rogue card left to be shown. It could make this card make a bit more sense.
This one feels uninspired though. Maybe they print a fandral type synergy card for combo. There is one rogue card left to be shown. It could make this card make a bit more sense.
The first one isn't very useful if you think about it unless it's a battlecry with a permanent effect, even then it's not amazing value or anything like that, it would be good though with all those combo minions like the panda rider and so on.
The second one can be used for lots of burst which they obviously don't want the class to have any more of.
The second one can be used for lots of burst which they obviously don't want the class to have any more of.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm thinking more like a card that is buffed in hand/deck when you play a combo card. Or something dumb like combo from below, with stealth of course.
Adrenaline rush 5 mana
Draw 2 cards plus 1 card for each combo activated this game.
You can make whatever archetype you want if you print blatantly broken cards.
That's exactly how every archetype works in this game, the reason to play that deck is usually a broken concept. You want to do something strong not just play vanilla curve minions.
That's true every for existing meta deck since forever. If you want something new to break into the game, it needs to be extremely powerful in its own way, otherwise you just play the existing broken thing.
With your "balanced" mindset, nothing in this game would exist.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'll fight you on that rogue at least has a viable archetype benefiting from new cards contrary to paladin.
Midrange shaman doesn't consist of one or two broken cards, but a critical mass of cards with great synergy.
You are suggesting that Blizzard print a broken card that promotes Zoo style archetype for Rogue. Play a broken card then play a bunch of Southseas, Buccaneers and whatever else 1 drops and cycle through your deck while filling out the curve and hitting face.
That's neither interesting nor class defining. It's boring and annoying to deal with... the stuff that eventually gets nerfed and people go back to complaining about Blizzard nerfing cards.
If we are asking for blatantly overpowered cards to promote an archetype then I got one for Rogue:
6 mana 6/6 Epic Rogue Minion
Battlecry: Deal 5 damage to the opponent for every card you stole this game.
That's neither interesting nor class defining. It's boring and annoying to deal with... the stuff that eventually gets nerfed and people go back to complaining about Blizzard nerfing cards.
If we are asking for blatantly overpowered cards to promote an archetype then I got one for Rogue:
6 mana 6/6 Epic Rogue Minion
Battlecry: Deal 5 damage to the opponent for every card you stole this game.
Rogue has been the loser of every set
Aggro Paladins seems to have a good chance at becoming a decent deck, but yeah control is fucked.
They got like what, 1 anti aggro class cards and maybe a few neutrals?
We have already seens 4 neutral and 3 fraction legendaries, which means only neutral 3-4 legendaries are left.
Why make all those 1 drops for rogue then?
Rogue is in a position where aggro is the direction it's going to take. What you think coin will actually do?
It's for all in aggro deck that wins in 4-5 turns, it's not for miracle the way you're used to see.
Look at their pirate rogue deck in blizzcon, it's not a good deck right now but you can actually see what they are trying with the class. It's the direction Blizzard is pushing the class to with no board control/no heal card, I think we will be there sometime next year.
Some lists right now in top legend don't even have gadgetzan, it's all in conceal strat. Amnesiac plays it quite a bit. It's quite appropriate for the class flavor actually.
Rogue is in a position where aggro is the direction it's going to take. What you think coin will actually do?
It's for all in aggro deck that wins in 4-5 turns, it's not for miracle the way you're used to see.
Look at their pirate rogue deck in blizzcon, it's not a good deck right now but you can actually see what they are trying with the class. It's the direction Blizzard is pushing the class to with no board control/no heal card, I think we will be there sometime next year.
Some lists right now in top legend don't even have gadgetzan, it's all in conceal strat. Amnesiac plays it quite a bit. It's quite appropriate for the class flavor actually.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Coin is most definitely for Miracle Rogue. Coin Tomb Pillager is one of the strongest plays for rogue right now. Coin is going to be huge for rogue.
I'm counting the legendary and the 1 drop deathrattle. Maybe Dirty Rat as well.
My disdain for aggro paladin is possibly clouding my judgement. Buffadin might replace aggro paladin since the requirements are so different.
I'm counting the legendary and the 1 drop deathrattle. Maybe Dirty Rat as well.
My disdain for aggro paladin is possibly clouding my judgement. Buffadin might replace aggro paladin since the requirements are so different.
Consistently bottom 2 class in terms of card output since BRM.
Blizzard has been so scarred by the performance of Rogues in the alpha.
Most rogue decks are malygos decks still. Miracle is still a viable archetype and the best out of all rogue lists.
Would be a damn shame if blizz wanted to scrap that archetype.
And no, the new coin won't fit into a pirate aggro rogue or whatever.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Uhh, no.
Miracle Rogue is a very good deck and reasonably prevalent on ladder.
If we're talking about the present, Paladin and Priest are probably both worse. I'd almost put Druid below them at this point as well.
I was playing oil rogue in the secret paly meta and I was having quite a blast, worst class? I didn't care, it was pretty good, I was getting legend quite easily with it. Since standard though? yeah, even if it's not the worst it's no where as fun.
You used to actually do powerful things, now it's just a struggle, too much effort for a single win when other decks win way more easily with far less effort involved. And when you win, it's not even satisfying.
You used to actually do powerful things, now it's just a struggle, too much effort for a single win when other decks win way more easily with far less effort involved. And when you win, it's not even satisfying.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
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