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Its Time To Be Honest About Next Gen Multiplatform Games
- Thread starter Tqaulity
- Start date
jigglet
Banned
You're right that only a very small percentage of hardcore gamers will see the graphical differences between PS5 and XBSX. But by the same token only a very few percentage will have the audio setup to take advantage of Tempest.
I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer yet I never bought headphones to take advantage of Dolby Atmos.
I think you've said a lot of right things but let's be real; no one outside of a very small segment will give two fucks about Tempest.
Krappadizzle
Member
Honesty?!
You couldn't have a more clear and biased write up if you were being payed by Sony. You even list it out.
You're not being honest about anything. If your were being honest you'd put up a list of what each console actually does.
As it stands this shit reads exactly like Console List Wars.
You couldn't have a more clear and biased write up if you were being payed by Sony. You even list it out.
You're not being honest about anything. If your were being honest you'd put up a list of what each console actually does.
As it stands this shit reads exactly like Console List Wars.
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Denis Colovic
Member
But, but can it do ray facing in 8k?
Truespeed
Member
I know, right? The XSX should perform better because it's got an extra 1.7TF. Would be kind of funny if it didn't or if the difference was so insignificant that it's indistinguishable. That's a lot of pressure to live up to. So those XSX multiplatform games better represent otherwise someone has a lot of explaining to do.
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Ev1L AuRoN
Member
I fully agree with your reasoning, so I opted for PS5. Even though the difference in performance lets some multis have some advantages in X for me it really comes down to PS Studios. I just love these games, and Microsoft has made me very confident that my current PC is more than enough to experience everything they have to offer..
Brofist
Member
Right...that power difference doesn't matter one bit, but Tempest Engine, DualSense and buzzword X from Sony are gonna blow you away!
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MasterCornholio
Member
I think this a combination of those two plus the PS5s hardware that will impress people. Like what they did with Demon Souls for example.
Why are you bothered by this?
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Nhranaghacon
Banned
Xbox is the superior console when compared to the PS5. 12.3 Teraflops is far more than PS5 is offering, same CPU/GPU - and in fact - the Xbox has higher clock frequencies without the need for overclocking - overclocking does not make an architecture superior in fact it is the other way around. It is an attempt at equalizing inferior hardware.
If you think an overclocking mode will deliver more than a cpu that can hold that frequency without overclocking - as a long time overclocker/voltage junky - I have bad news for you.
And get this, essentially - Microsoft could if it wanted - deliver an overclocking mode for it's CPU, a CPU that at factory default ALREADY clocks higher than the PS5 - if it wanted - would it be best for the customer?
Only if the engineers tooled around with the CPU long enough to figure out it would not harm it's lifespan.
And as a long time overclocker - it probably wouldn't. Do they need to? No. Because as I pointed out, the SeriesX CPU is faster than PS5 overclocked CPU. Unified l3 cache, if it's there - is something to only help stabilize overclocking and really not the equalizer/performance booster some want you to think.... unless benchmark's come out stating that this rumored added feature does in fact do help a slower cpu outperform the SeriesX CPU without unified L3cache - it wont.
If you think an overclocking mode will deliver more than a cpu that can hold that frequency without overclocking - as a long time overclocker/voltage junky - I have bad news for you.
And get this, essentially - Microsoft could if it wanted - deliver an overclocking mode for it's CPU, a CPU that at factory default ALREADY clocks higher than the PS5 - if it wanted - would it be best for the customer?
Only if the engineers tooled around with the CPU long enough to figure out it would not harm it's lifespan.
And as a long time overclocker - it probably wouldn't. Do they need to? No. Because as I pointed out, the SeriesX CPU is faster than PS5 overclocked CPU. Unified l3 cache, if it's there - is something to only help stabilize overclocking and really not the equalizer/performance booster some want you to think.... unless benchmark's come out stating that this rumored added feature does in fact do help a slower cpu outperform the SeriesX CPU without unified L3cache - it wont.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
Few months ago, I was almost certain I'd pick Series X. But Sony has been recently making smart moves like releasing the DualSense early, which I have, that made me want to switch platforms since I already have some investment in the PS5 ecosystem. Plus I expect my favorite franchises and such to be better on PS5/more PS5 exclusives to appeal to me so there's that too
Brofist
Member
Oh I'm sure you'll be impressed by whatever they put out.
Krisprolls
Banned
Yes, I stopped at XSX higher frequencies (which is wrong) and PS5 overclocking (wrong too, PS5 sometimes just underclocks slightly from its base clock from time to time, never overclocks, we won't reexplain that a 100th time lol).
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MasterCornholio
Member
I did say Demon Souls. It's not like I was making s reference to BugSnax or anything. Plus many of Sonys studios are known to make impressive games. Don't know why you don't expect good things from them.
Krisprolls
Banned
To be fair, it's harder to be impressed by Xbox launch exclusives this time.
Brofist
Member
The games will be great, I'm not debating that.
I just don't care for the gimmicky stuff. But if it pans out then I'm wrong
MasterCornholio
Member
Well you did say "anything they put out" so I thought you meant the games as well.
As for the gimmicks the Haptics and the Adaptive triggers don't really sound like it to me.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I don't understand why anyone would have so little self-respect as to come on a public web forum and spout so much unverified nonsense, so authoritatively when it's so easy with just a little googling to disprove almost everything stated.
Krisprolls
Banned
Why ? Will Sony remove haptics, adaptive triggers and 3D sound in a future patch ?
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Tqaulity
Member
Ok that's just it...you don't need an "audio setup" to hear the benefits of Tempest. Anything you use to listen to the sounds in a game will be able to demonstrate the benefits of Tempest (TV speakers, headphones, soundbar, HT speakers etc). In fact, the difference will be more pronounced on lower end sound systems since the range in quality lessens as you get more advanced setups.
But the other thing to note here is that Tempest is not just about the distribution and rendering of the sound a la Dolby Atmos. It is also about having dedicated sound hardware that can allow sound designed to create higher quality and quantity of sound during the authoring process! This is the key point that most people don't realize. Games WILL just sound way better on PS5 (no matter what you use to listen) even if it's just in stereo because the processing power devoted to the sound has increased dramatically. This allows for far more variety of sounds in games as well as higher fidelity sound that can be rendered. This is where everyone on a PS5 will be able to appreciate the advantages of tempest. Then there is the distribution of sound where nearly every device will get a virtualized 3D sound solution. This part isn't really new as many people have pointed out (i.e. Atmos for headphones, Windows Sonic etc) but still the potential is there for it to be superior given the processing power behind it and the HRTF data associated with it universally.
Think about it guys, Atmos have been around for ~8 years now and game consoles (i.e. Xbox One) has supported it for nearly 5 years. Yet there is still only a handful of games that natively support Atmos. There is a reason for that.
Nhranaghacon
Banned
*looks around* did I end up in crazyville somehow?
Yes, XSX has higher clocked CPU frequencies -without straining the CPU by using overclocking - an indisputable fact
The PS5 comes STOCK overclocked - meaning it downclock's due to heating issues as it strains the hardware.
I have myself, personally built thousands of PC's and notably won awards for overclocking machines and building computers. And you are trying to tell me a STOCK overclocked part - a part that has been pushed past it's intended limit, that has to use "mixed" frequencies to maintain optimal performance is faster than the Series X CPU that comes in at a higher cpu speed (cpu frequency) without overclocking? LOL
Enjoy distorting fact's - I'll be sure to enjoy benchmark after benchmark proving yes, The Series X has a faster STOCK CPU/GPU. Xbox.
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Truespeed
Member
His noodle was overclocked on green gummy bears.
Krisprolls
Banned
Not the GPU. GPU is 2.23 GHz base clock on PS5, slightly underclocked in rare occurrences vs 1.825 GHz on XSX.
All this is meaningless, both machines are close enough, once again multiplatform will run and look the same on both.
So much energy lost for nothing. You don't understand what you're talking about, tell me about the games you like.
Personnally, I can't wait to test haptics and play Demon's Souls. What do you want to play ?
It's a gaming forum here, let's talk about games.
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FlyLo
Member
yeah i think with performance mode everyone will win next-gen. Except Xbox Series S owners lol.
Nhranaghacon
Banned
CPU/GPU Overclocking - mean's nothing less than pushing hardware past it's intended limit - in effect straining the hardware - a practice considered bad for the consumer in years past - as it generally leads to shorter hardware lifespans.
Xbox doesn't need a "Boost Mode" because it maintains it's cpu speed (cpu frequency) - stock - without straining the hardware - Xbox is superior in CPU/GPU Speed at stock without overclocking and straining it's hardware and Has more Teraflops, INDISPUTABLE.
Xbox doesn't need a "Boost Mode" because it maintains it's cpu speed (cpu frequency) - stock - without straining the hardware - Xbox is superior in CPU/GPU Speed at stock without overclocking and straining it's hardware and Has more Teraflops, INDISPUTABLE.
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Krisprolls
Banned
Yes, seriously. Feels like monkeys making conferences about nuclear fission sometimes here. We're - not - devs. We don't understand how it works internally, it's not a single number, there are thousands of parameters. I'm an IT engineer but I wouldn't say I understand all the technical parameters. It's a lot more complex than Tetrafloops (c) and CPU/ GPU frequency and cores. There are caches, buses, I/O, custom hardware, APIs... Stop trying to evaluate that, or spend a few years at university / school learning that and come back here explain it to us.
We're supposed to love the games we play yet we rarely talk about that. Excitement is here, new consoles, rejoice everybody. ^^
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Krisprolls
Banned
Even XSS owners will be ok. Playing at 1080p is fine even on a 4K TV, I know I tested all that. That's the point of XSS, it should be able to stay around 1080p or slightly under in dynamic res.
It's not like games will run at 480p on it either. Once again, this era is over. I don't know why everybody is stuck in the Xbox 360 / PS3 era. That was 14 years ago or more folks, it's time to move on. Tech changed a lot since that time.
Everything looks good now at 1080p+, XSS included.
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FlyLo
Member
i somewhat agree, but I think 1080p to 1440p is a huge jump. 1080p on a 27 inch monitor kinda rough imo.
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Krisprolls
Banned
You didn't understand anything, PS5 doesn't overclock anything, it underclocks from base frequency, and only when both CPU AND GPU workload exceeds threshold, which rarely happens.
There is no "boost mode" in PS5.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
Theres a reason they chips over lock differently and why it called the silicon lotteryYou’re only pushing the chip past the lowest common denominator set by the manufacturer but within the bounds of what the chip can handle. Because if the chip couldn’t handle it, it wouldn’t work.
If Sony designed their CPU to run faster well that is all there is to it. It’s essentially the same as when AMD or Intel bin the best manufactured chips, clock them faster, and sell them at a higher price. The chip is still doing what it can do, objectively.
Krisprolls
Banned
It's not a huge jump compared to the jump between 720p and 1080p we had before. You don't remember or you're too young, but everything was blurry in the PS3/360 era.
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Nhranaghacon
Banned
PS5 DOWNCLOCKS DUE TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS STRAIN ON THE CPU, STRAIN DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT IS BEING BURDENED AS THEY HAVE MADE IT FASTER THAN ORIGINALLY INTENDED. INDISPUTABLE.
SERIES X WILL NOT NEED TO USE SUCH FUCTIONS EVEN THOUGH ALL CPU'S CAN IN FACT LOWER THEIR OWN SPEED IF SOFTWARE PERMITS - WHY? BECAUSE THE CPU IS NOT BEING STRAINED/PUSH PAST WHAT IT WAS INTENDED. INDISPUTABLE.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
There is no such thing as "overclocking" on a fixed hardware platform like a console, who's clockspeeds are chosen on the basis of pure manufacturability by design.
This concept of "stock" clocks you keep parroting doesn't exist, because for the PS5 at least, the clocks are not even fixed but variable. And for the XSX the GPU clocks are fixed by the expected manufacturing yields of the specific chosen semi-conductor process technology (namely TSMC's N7P).
The XSX doesn't have a "boost mode" simply because it wasn't designed with the same variable clock frequency paradigm the PS5 was. And it's TFLOPs advantage is a measly 18% which will barely manifest at all in real games. All else being equal is will mean the difference between a 3840x2160p (native 4k) resolution and a 3477x1956p rendering resolution; which with the prevalent use of temporal up-sampling techniques will mean an up-sampled 4k image effectively indistinguishable from the native 4k framebuffer.
The CPU clock speed difference is negligible to the extent that it's not even worth mentioning. It will result in practically no meaningful difference in CPU performance.
If anything the far more comprehensive I/O and data decompression block on PS5, meaning that more specific tasks in the process of moving data between the SSD and processor cores is offloaded to dedicated hardware from the CPU, may in fact give the PS5 a minor CPU advantage in real games despite the diminutive difference in CPU clocks.
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Krisprolls
Banned
No, calm down. Sony just chose this solution to get more performance at the same cost and a quiet console. The GPU and CPU should handle it fine, don't worry about that, they're not that strained, they won't explode. Sony certainly spent thousands of hours testing that. (Or they fucked up and we're all screwed, starting with them ^^)
XSX solution is more traditional but works fine too, it just implies you use lower frequencies, simply because you must guess the max power / heat budget in worst workload conditions BEFORE chosing the frequencies instead of setting frequencies higher and analyzing the workload during the game like PS5 does to underclock only when needed and only what is needed.
Sony underestimated this budget when making the PS4 Pro, that's why it sounds like a jet engine : it wasn't supposed to make that much heat so the fan has to work more, calculations weren't that good. That's the problem with this method.
Give it up, trust me, you won't understand.
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ReBurn
Gold Member
All caps. This is getting serious.
Nhranaghacon
Banned
Translation "Sony is using a WEAKER CPU and PUSHING IT PAST IT'S INTENDED LIMIT TO TRY TO CATCH UP TO XBOX WITH OVERCLOCKING"
I am done here.
a multicultural team of v
Member
Because it's past your bed time?
Krisprolls
Banned
lol there's zero overclocking here, they just analyze the workload in real time. The GPU clock is 2.23 GHz and they slightly underclock only when needed. Yes, we're done please.
MrFunSocks
Banned
FIrstly, the PS5 only does 3D audio through headphones. Not sound bars, not TV speakers, not surround sound speakers. Headphones only.
You are surely a paid shill with your posts. The Xbox has dedicated audio hardware too. The Xbox has 3D audio. You are literally spreading FUD about xbox and shilling for the playstation.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Errr.... the PS5 CPU has fixed clocks. The clocks don't even change. It's the GPU that is variable and varies due to workload. It isn't pushed past its limits because its "limits" are there by design which is the 2.23GHz max clocks it is able to reach.
Are you smoking that bad skunk again?
Nhranaghacon
Banned
Keep spinning false narrative's about Sony and PS5 with an inferior CPU that they PUSHED PAST IT'S INTENDED SPEED AFTER BUYING A SLOWER OFF THE SHELF PART.
And I'll sit here and forget all about the grasping for straws - because I deal in factual information.
And PS5 doesn't have "Boost MODE" PS5 BOOST MODE is the CPU BEING PUSHED PAST IT'S INTENDED SPEED AND SOLD TO THE CONSUMER AS A STOCK PART
You know why SeriesX Speed doesn't Increase AND decrease consumer? Because it's Computational Speed has not been pushed past it's actual limit and then included in a console.
And to the guy that cited there is no "Boost" for PS5 -
QUIT TRYING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE TO SUIT SONY PS5, it has a slower CPU, a SLOWER CPU that UNLIKE MICROSOFT'S - SLOWS DOWN EVEN MORE WHEN UNDER HEAVY LOAD.
You're false narratives and deceitful way's all fall apart when looking at the original sources, original transcribes ect
"There's no PS5 Boost MODE" yeah uhh have fun tryin stay relevant selling that disinformation.
Oh wait, are you going to try to hit me with another angle here because I'm not wrong? Gotta try to find the correct spin on this?
There isn't one, the PS5 CPU is slower and pushed past it's intended limit at that. It's purely up to DEVELOPERS to deliver and Xbox has the better hardware and the high ground.
You're going to attempt to recover here and you can't and I'm just ignore further attempts moving forward.
"PS5 has locked frequencies"
No, it has VARIABLE FREQUENCIES as CITED IN THE TRANSCRIPTION BELOW
Again, further attempts to spin fact with disfunction and disinformation and false information and attempts to slander factual information are going to be ignored.
Variable Frequency means - the CPU is literally slowed down as it's already pushed past it's limit and under load it can not sustain speed.
Good Day to you consumer
Good bye to you disinformationists.
And to clear up what the qoute means - it means the game is going to be built to sustain performance - even if the CPU can not sustain it's speed.
And I'll sit here and forget all about the grasping for straws - because I deal in factual information.
And PS5 doesn't have "Boost MODE" PS5 BOOST MODE is the CPU BEING PUSHED PAST IT'S INTENDED SPEED AND SOLD TO THE CONSUMER AS A STOCK PART
You know why SeriesX Speed doesn't Increase AND decrease consumer? Because it's Computational Speed has not been pushed past it's actual limit and then included in a console.
And to the guy that cited there is no "Boost" for PS5 -
QUIT TRYING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE TO SUIT SONY PS5, it has a slower CPU, a SLOWER CPU that UNLIKE MICROSOFT'S - SLOWS DOWN EVEN MORE WHEN UNDER HEAVY LOAD.
You're false narratives and deceitful way's all fall apart when looking at the original sources, original transcribes ect
"There's no PS5 Boost MODE" yeah uhh have fun tryin stay relevant selling that disinformation.
Oh wait, are you going to try to hit me with another angle here because I'm not wrong? Gotta try to find the correct spin on this?
There isn't one, the PS5 CPU is slower and pushed past it's intended limit at that. It's purely up to DEVELOPERS to deliver and Xbox has the better hardware and the high ground.
You're going to attempt to recover here and you can't and I'm just ignore further attempts moving forward.
"PS5 has locked frequencies"
No, it has VARIABLE FREQUENCIES as CITED IN THE TRANSCRIPTION BELOW
Again, further attempts to spin fact with disfunction and disinformation and false information and attempts to slander factual information are going to be ignored.
Variable Frequency means - the CPU is literally slowed down as it's already pushed past it's limit and under load it can not sustain speed.
Good Day to you consumer
Good bye to you disinformationists.
And to clear up what the qoute means - it means the game is going to be built to sustain performance - even if the CPU can not sustain it's speed.
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Keep spinning false narrative's about Sony and PS5 with an inferior CPU that they PUSHED PAST IT'S INTENDED SPEED AFTER BUYING A SLOWER OFF THE SHELF PART.
And I'll sit here and forget all about the grasping for straws - because I deal in factual information.
And PS5 doesn't have "Boost MODE" PS5 BOOST MODE is the CPU BEING PUSHED PAST IT'S INTENDED SPEED AND SOLD TO THE CONSUMER AS A STOCK PART
You know why SeriesX Speed doesn't Increase AND decrease consumer? Because it's Computational Speed has not been pushed past it's actual limit and then included in a console.
And to the guy that cited there is no "Boost" for PS5 -
QUIT TRYING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE TO SUIT SONY PS5, it has a slower CPU, a SLOWER CPU that UNLIKE MICROSOFT'S - SLOWS DOWN EVEN MORE WHEN UNDER HEAVY LOAD.
You're false narratives and deceitful way's all fall apart when looking at the original sources, original transcribes ect
"There's no PS5 Boost MODE" yeah uhh have fun tryin stay relevant selling that disinformation.
Oh wait, are you going to try to hit me with another angle here because I'm not wrong? Gotta try to find the correct spin on this?
There isn't one, the PS5 CPU is slower and pushed past it's intended limit at that. It's purely up to DEVELOPERS to deliver and Xbox has the better hardware and the high ground.
You're going to attempt to recover here and you can't and I'm just ignore further attempts moving forward.
"PS5 has locked frequencies"
No, it has VARIABLE FREQUENCIES as CITED IN THE TRANSCRIPTION BELOW
Again, further attempts to spin fact with disfunction and disinformation and false information and attempts to slander factual information are going to be ignored.
Variable Frequency means - the CPU is literally slowed down as it's already pushed past it's limit and under load it can not sustain speed.
Good Day to you consumer
Good bye to you disinformationists.
And to clear up what the qoute means - it means the game is going to be built to sustain performance - even if the CPU can not sustain it's speed.
The irony of you calling out anyone else as disinformationists when all you've done here is spout misinformation. I've reported you already, but I will do so again for the unnecessary hostility and accusations of misinformation when you've been constantly and consistently called out for everything you stubbornly continue to spout that is demonstrably incorrect.
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