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[.la1n]

How much can you change the design and have it still be Cinder? I don't know very many people that like the design of Combo, but there was a ton of stuff you can do/change about Combo that people may or may not like.

With Cinder, it's the silhouette of a man who is essentially flaming or made of lava. He has no clothes, no real face, or anything you can really mess with. I don't see how you can even update that much aside from doing KI1 with better graphics...

That's my concern. The reason the character is great is because the design is so simple. You have a hollow shape of a man engulfed in flame. It's Dormammu minus the armor, badass character. Judging by comments from Adam it seems they don't get why it's a great design and instead think of it as "lol man in body suit." This indicates to me two things: one they don't get the appeal of the character to begin with and two they are probably going to completely change the character.

I just don't feel very confident about it and as dumb as it sounds it's probably the one thing that would make Season 2 an absolute buy versus skipping it all together. Too many other great fighting games that will be competing this holiday and most with much more appealing aesthetics.

If they would legitimately listen to feedback I would probably feel a lot more confident about it. Instead every time concerns are raised they just brush it off and we get an answer that amounts to "we did it because of X so deal with it." I still feel pretty burned by paying the extra cost for the terrible half assed classic alternate skins. It's fine to go with whatever your vision is and ignore the consumers, they have that right. I also have the right to not spend anymore money on their product.

 

[Durock]

Cinder' a old design is great, but it really does need to be improved upon. Idk what route Iron Galaxy will take with it, but I have full faith in them. Combo is awesome and his design and such is only half complete!

 

[.la1n]

Cinder' a old design is great, but it really does need to be improved upon. Idk what route Iron Galaxy will take with it, but I have full faith in them. Combo is awesome and his design and such is only half complete!

I keep reading conflicting reports on Combo. Some interviews say the design is complete but others seem to indicate that he will still be undergoing revisions. Interested to see which ends up happening.

 

[Durock]

It was confirmed in the stream that he doesn't even have any facial animations yet. That aside, until he's 100% done, I'm sure they'll continue to make whatever adjustments they deem necessary.

Design aside, I can legimately say that after spending hours with him at E3, he's the most fun character to play as imo.

 

[hwalker84]

Honestly while the person on neogaf had what I feels is a superior design I'm fine with what Iron Galaxy has done. Just can't wait to get my hands on him. Looks like my new main.

 

[Superblatt]

Just picked up an xbox one last night and plan buying the $40 pack of KI today. Will I also get future characters this way?

 

[Troubled Bat]

I will be putting Boxing Gloves on all of the colors for TJ.

You know thinking on Cinder though... I wonder what type of accessories he'll be having.

 

[bumpkin]

Just picked up an xbox one last night and plan buying the $40 pack of KI today. Will I also get future characters this way?

No, I'm pretty sure the Ultra Edition is only good for season 1. You'll probably have to buy another pack when season 2 is released to get the new characters (Combo, Cinder, etc.).

 

[DopeyFish]

Just picked up an xbox one last night and plan buying the $40 pack of KI today. Will I also get future characters this way?

Everything is split up as 8 characters and stages

Season 2 content will be piled on top, though.

So you will be able to play against those new characters in every mode, you will get no mercy moves (as long as they don't force the rating out of T) and you should be able to play on their stages if someone else chooses (won't know for sure until release) just won't be able to choose the characters.

 

[DrDogg]

I will be putting Boxing Gloves on all of the colors for TJ.

You know thinking on Cinder though... I wonder what type of accessories he'll be having.

This is kind of the approach I hope we get for Cinder. Make the default just a graphically superior version of his KI1 look, then give him accessories to change all of that.

That said... now that I think about it. If that's the case, there's no need for a classic costume. So let me scratch everything I've said about Cinder and suggest we get a complete redesign... while simultaneously showing us the classic outfit (which is perfect). Then all parties are happy... hopefully.

 

[hwalker84]

This is kind of the approach I hope we get for Cinder. Make the default just a graphically superior version of his KI1 look, then give him accessories to change all of that.

That said... now that I think about it. If that's the case, there's no need for a classic costume. So let me scratch everything I've said about Cinder and suggest we get a complete redesign... while simultaneously showing us the classic outfit (which is perfect). Then all parties are happy... hopefully.

I'm sure we're getting a complete redesign. Maybe some sort of suit of armor with flames leaking out.

 

[LTWheels]

I'm sure we're getting a complete redesign. Maybe some sort of suit of armor with flames leaking out.

I always thought that something like the Ethereal from WoW would be interesting:

They are beings made of energy, the clothing helps them to keep their form.

 

[hwalker84]

I always thought that something like the Ethereal from WoW would be interesting:

They are beings made of energy, the clothing helps them to keep their form.

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Cinder's old design is pretty generic. I think the only real iconic thing about it is his face otherwise he's just a more generic Human Torch.

When I was thinking about it, I was thinking to make him a molten lava man. Heavy special moves would have him bursting in to full flame temporarily and his Instinct would have him fully flamed for the duration. I would have drawn it but when I was doing research for it, somebody else had already done it way better than I could have. They also had him in a torn up prisoner suit which was an interesting touch.

So yeah, I think they should do something kind of radical with him considering a straight update would just be his classic costume.

 

[Poker Face]

snip

lol someone sent your post to adam and klobb on twitter, and they responded.

does KillerInstinctGAF have lurkers?

 

[LeMaximilian]

Really, if you guys have concerns regarding KI, you need to hit up the devs as early as possible. They're actively taking feedback and are open to suggestions.

Design Director, James Goddard https://twitter.com/DJamesGoddard
Creative Director, Adam Isgreen https://twitter.com/Ishmae1

Also, let them know about stuff you're excited for.

I feel this is the only forum thread that still exists for KI since the DH forums were lost.

 

[SAB CA]

This is kind of the approach I hope we get for Cinder. Make the default just a graphically superior version of his KI1 look, then give him accessories to change all of that.

That said... now that I think about it. If that's the case, there's no need for a classic costume. So let me scratch everything I've said about Cinder and suggest we get a complete redesign... while simultaneously showing us the classic outfit (which is perfect). Then all parties are happy... hopefully.

It'd be nice if they start incorporating the Classic skins into the game in some ways. Cinders Classic could be stock troops created based on original Cinder, for example. It'd feel a lot more like part of the full experience if they did things like that.

I'd love to see them both at the same time, but I get the feeling (so far) that much of this is being shown to us as soon as it's presentable. So I won't bet too heavily on such happening.

Cinder's old design is pretty generic. I think the only real iconic thing about it is his face otherwise he's just a more generic Human Torch.

When I was thinking about it, I was thinking to make him a molten lava man. Heavy special moves would have him bursting in to full flame temporarily and his Instinct would have him fully flamed for the duration. I would have drawn it but when I was doing research for it, somebody else had already done it way better than I could have. They also had him in a torn up prisoner suit which was an interesting touch.

So yeah, I think they should do something kind of radical with him considering a straight update would just be his classic costume.

I agree that making his flame have levels that works into his instinct seems to be one of the best ways to go. Of course, that'd also have to be reflected in his classic outfit somehow.

Y'know, if they ever do go back and touch up some of the old classic costumes... I actually hope they keep the previous ones in the game too, and just give an option between them. Similar to how Shago uses moves from Jago's cutting room floor ideas, there's really little reason to just eliminate things in a game like this.

I think the worse thing about classic Cinder is that it completely sells his potential short. His look has no inherit history, no real defining features, it's like the lowest tier of giving meaning to a design. There's probably underlings and mooks in action games that look more impressive than him, actually... I think a character type that reminds me of an evolved Cinder design is actually Black Brimstone from Capcom's Spawn: in the Demon's Hand game:

Though I think I'd flip if they could make something that take2 as much advantage of the fluidity of Molten Magma like Akinu in One Piece:

lol someone sent your post to adam and klobb on twitter, and they responded.

does KillerInstinctGAF have lurkers?

Do we have any idea who the art team behind IG is at this point, or if it's their artist, or Microsoft artist that are providing the basis of the designs? I'd love to be able to see some works from the people behind the new concept art, or 3D modeling.

 

[Poker Face]

Really, if you guys have concerns regarding KI, you need to hit up the devs as early as possible. They're actively taking feedback and are open to suggestions.

Design Director, James Goddard https://twitter.com/DJamesGoddard
Creative Director, Adam Isgreen https://twitter.com/Ishmae1

Also, let them know about stuff you're excited for.

I feel this is the only forum thread that still exists for KI since the DH forums were lost.

Only other forum I can think of off the top of my head is the Xbox forums, but I don't think many people post there

Spoiler

and the forum is ugly.

When the DH forums were going down I thought about trying to run my own community forums, but I have no idea if it's worth it since KIC (probably the best/most popular fan site) doesn't really have active forums. Would be nice to have a dedicated and active forum though.

 

[DopeyFish]

Really, if you guys have concerns regarding KI, you need to hit up the devs as early as possible. They're actively taking feedback and are open to suggestions.

Design Director, James Goddard https://twitter.com/DJamesGoddard
Creative Director, Adam Isgreen https://twitter.com/Ishmae1

Also, let them know about stuff you're excited for.

I feel this is the only forum thread that still exists for KI since the DH forums were lost.

Well... There is SRK, too. Though even there's an entire forum people still mainly post in the megathread lol

 

[.la1n]

lol someone sent your post to adam and klobb on twitter, and they responded.

does KillerInstinctGAF have lurkers?

At least they acknowledge that the retro costumes were not up to snuff for the most part. Outside of classic Spinal I am hard pressed to think of any of them that couldn't have used some extra time in the oven, and let's be honest classic Spinal wasn't a grand task.

I watched Max's interview with James a moment ago and while all of it sounds great in theory I noticed he hid behind "well we think Combo's design is pretty great..." just like DH did when they were hit with flack on some of their design decisions. That and the "well that's what accessories are for!" response and we all see how that turned out for us last season. As I have said a thousand times before If that's your baby then I get it, if I designed something and the internet crapped all over it I might get a little defensive too but there comes a point where you have to suck it up and realize that yeah some of these complaints are warranted.

The issue here is that your working with an existing IP and that demands a certain level of respect to the original property whether you like it or not. That's what you are signing on for when you take on a project like this and you better believe there are going to be some passionate fans ready to criticize (and give praise) where necessary.

I still want to know who looked at this:

and thought "Oh yeah fans of the original Sabrewulf are going to love this."

edit: and Max I have to give you a lot of credit on that interview because you actually mentioned that fans and you yourself had concerns over Combo's design. Most interviewers spend so much time praising the developer that I feel like any credible criticism never gets passed to the teams behind the game.

 

[abadguy]

Cinder in the old games looked like a guy with orange sludge poured all over him. Like most of the designs in old KI it looked pretty poor. Capcom did it much better with Pyron, who actually looked to be engulfed in flame.

 

[hwalker84]

At least they acknowledge that the retro costumes were not up to snuff for the most part. Outside of classic Spinal I am hard pressed to think of any of them that couldn't have used some extra time in the oven, and let's be honest classic Spinal wasn't a grand task.

I watched Max's interview with James a moment ago and while all of it sounds great in theory I noticed he hid behind "well we think Combo's design is pretty great..." just like DH did when they were hit with flack on some of their design decisions. That and the "well that's what accessories are for!" response and we all see how that turned out for us last season. As I have said a thousand times before If that's your baby then I get it, if I designed something and the internet crapped all over it I might get a little defensive too but there comes a point where you have to suck it up and realize that yeah some of these complaints are warranted.

The issue here is that your working with an existing IP and that demands a certain level of respect to the original property whether you like it or not. That's what you are signing on for when you take on a project like this and you better believe there are going to be some passionate fans ready to criticize (and give praise) where necessary.

I still want to know who looked at this:

and thought "Oh yeah fans of the original Sabrewulf are going to love this."

edit: and Max I have to give you a lot of credit on that interview because you actually mentioned that fans and you yourself had concerns over Combo's design. Most interviewers spend so much time praising the developer that I feel like any credible criticism never gets passed to the teams behind the game.

Agree 100%. Though I think Orchid's got 1000's better buy just giving her texture some roughness.

 

[SAB CA]

Cinder in the old games looked like a guy with orange sludge poured all over him. Like most of the designs in old KI it looked pretty poor. Capcom did it much better with Pyron, who actually looked to be engulfed in flame.

Haha, the effectiveness of Pyron VS Cinder is so different, I didn't even consider him when thinking about similar game characters. Eesh. Good reference!

I always loved how they didn't just stop at "Fire Man", but also gave him something of a universal / galactic twist. It gave them much more to work with than simply "fire for the sake of fire", and helped solidify him with some traits that made him a unique, memorable creature, rather than just a Human Torch-a-like. I really hope the new take on Cinder can come into his own as well.

 

[Skab]

I REALLY want a new Darkstalkers.

 

[.la1n]

I REALLY want a new Darkstalkers.

Don't we all

 

[The Flash]

I just don't want the new Cinder to look like a Human Torch knock off

 

[Troubled Bat]

I just don't want the new Cinder to look like a Human Torch knock off

B-But he'll be bald and have no face.

 

[Silky]

lol KIGAF has lurkers.

I couldn't care less about what they do with Cinder, because in all honesty his design is so bare.

Glacius got that overhaul because he had backstory. Cinder doesn't really have that. I mean, well, he was a convict? Maybe hell have hand cuffs? lol

As for classic costumes? I think Sabrewulfs is the only real offense. Jago's is ok. Glacius, Spinal, and Orchid is perfect. Sadira and Fulgore? Mehhhh. Thunders is p. Lame, too

 

[hwalker84]

lol KIGAF has lurkers.

I couldn't care less about what they do with Cinder, because in all honesty his design is so bare.

Glacius got that overhaul because he had backstory. Cinder doesn't really have that. I mean, well, he was a convict? Maybe hell have hand cuffs? lol

As for classic costumes? I think Sabrewulfs is the only real offense. Jago's is ok. Glacius, Spinal, and Orchid is perfect. Sadira and Fulgore? Mehhhh. Thunders is p. Lame, too

Glacius is not perfect.

Really all it needs.

 

[¡HarlequinPanic!]

siouxdira is the best classic costume

 

[.la1n]

Glacius is not perfect.

Really all it needs.

Hurts every time because it's an amazingly easy fix.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Not to invoke KI canon, but isn't Cinder's story that he is some inmate who took part in some sort of experimental weaponization tests that gave him his powers? I always sort of pictured him as some dude in a Tron style body suit that could hit a button on his wrist or something and "activate" his flames.

 

[.la1n]

Not to invoke KI canon, but isn't Cinder's story that he is some inmate who took part in some sort of experimental weaponization tests that gave him his powers? I always sort of pictured him as some dude in a Tron style body suit that could hit a button on his wrist or something and "activate" his flames.

Yeah convict that participated in an ultra tech program that backfired and wrecked his body if I remember correctly. It was a curse more than a gift so It wouldn't be an activated power, more something he always has to deal with.

Think Phoenix in MvC3 "I can't control it."

 

[Silky]

Glacius is not perfect.

Really all it needs.

Well 95% is good enough!

Seriously, I should shoot this over to Keits and ask if the original costumes could get a reworking.

Not to invoke KI canon, but isn't Cinder's story that he is some inmate who took part in some sort of experimental weaponization tests that gave him his powers? I always sort of pictured him as some dude in a Tron style body suit that could hit a button on his wrist or something and "activate" his flames.

Probably something like BAOH, in which it activates when he's in danger or something.

 

[Timu]

Orchid is perfect.

For her KI1 costume it's close though it has those KI2 boots which means it was suppose to be this:

 

[.la1n]

Well 95% is good enough!

Seriously, I should shoot this over to Keits and ask if the original costumes could get a reworking.

Would at least be some good will towards those of us who already forked over the cash for them. Keits is only involved in combat mechanics but I am sure he could pass it along to the right people and maybe get us an answer. I have only heard them answer when it comes to the original cast getting updated move sets or nerfs/buffs, haven't heard them give a response on reworking some of the aesthetics outside of the UI.

 

[Troubled Bat]

For her KI1 costume it's close though it has those KI2 boots which means it was suppose to be this:

Don't forget that the costume also has her earrings.

 

[tapedeck]

For her KI1 costume it's close though it has those KI2 boots which means it was suppose to be this:

wow that looks really good.

 

[Nori Chan]

For her KI1 costume it's close though it has those KI2 boots which means it was suppose to be this:

We need to tweet this to IG so they can tweak it lol

 

[KnightHero117]

For her KI1 costume it's close though it has those KI2 boots which means it was suppose to be this:

I want this NOW!!!

 

[abadguy]

Haha, the effectiveness of Pyron VS Cinder is so different, I didn't even consider him when thinking about similar game characters. Eesh. Good reference!

I always loved how they didn't just stop at "Fire Man", but also gave him something of a universal / galactic twist. It gave them much more to work with than simply "fire for the sake of fire", and helped solidify him with some traits that made him a unique, memorable creature, rather than just a Human Torch-a-like. I really hope the new take on Cinder can come into his own as well.

Yeah i really hope that IG look at him for inspiration when designing the new cinder.

I REALLY want a new Darkstalkers.

I had hopes that with KI making a return maybe there would be a chance. Even if Capcom released it in a similar way to the way they have released KI.

Yeah convict that participated in an ultra tech program that backfired and wrecked his body if I remember correctly. It was a curse more than a gift so It wouldn't be an activated power, more something he always has to deal with.

Think Phoenix in MvC3 "I can't control it."

Wasn't Cinder killed by Glacius in the original game though? Shouldn't the new Cinder be a completely different guy?

 

[Timu]

I found that pic recently on Gamefaqs.

We need to tweet this to IG so they can tweak it lol

Yes, yes we do.

 

[DopeyFish]

https://soundcloud.com/mickgordon/killer-instinct-season-2-tj-combo-e3-trailer-music

TJ combo trailer music via mick gordon

 

[.la1n]

Wasn't Cinder killed by Glacius in the original game though? Shouldn't the new Cinder be a completely different guy?

I could be wrong but I seem to remember he simply went off looking for a cure and then was absent during KI 2. Not that it matters because Microsoft is pretty hit or miss on what they choose to consider canon for the new game.

I hope if Mick is indeed involved with Season 2 then they plan to tell us soon one way or the other. If he's been on board the whole time then that's a pretty shitty move to the fans to not make that information public. At this point in development how could you possibly not know who is doing such a vital part or the game?

 

[hwalker84]

I could be wrong but I seem to remember he simply went off looking for a cure and then was absent during KI 2. Not that it matters because Microsoft is pretty hit or miss on what they choose to consider canon for the new game.

I hope if Mick is indeed involved with Season 2 then they plan to tell us soon one way or the other. If he's been on board the whole time then that's a pretty shitty move to the fans to not make that information public. At this point in development how could you possibly not know who is doing such a vital part or the game?

Its crazy that season 1 is done and we still don't know where this game sits in the lore.

 

[Troubled Bat]

https://soundcloud.com/mickgordon/killer-instinct-season-2-tj-combo-e3-trailer-music

TJ combo trailer music via mick gordon

Gah. I'm so excited to hear TJ's theme!

 

[.la1n]

Its crazy that season 1 is done and we still don't know where this game sits in the lore.

I'd be surprised if the development team even knows. It seems like the text book example of flying by the seat of your pants since day one. If there is a clear plan for this game it'd be great if someone decides to fill the rest of the world in on it.

 

[DopeyFish]

Its crazy that season 1 is done and we still don't know where this game sits in the lore.

Its not like any fighting game i have ever played made any damn sense to begin with

 

[.la1n]

Its not like any fighting game i have ever played made any damn sense to begin with

Usually after this first game they don't but fun to see the craziness they come up with anyway.

 

[SAB CA]

Its crazy that season 1 is done and we still don't know where this game sits in the lore.

All the arcade endings gave us something to work with, however. And we know pretty well that this isn't a straight carry-on from KI2, as they've already stated their dissatisfaction with many of it's story elements and characterizations.

And they have to re-define why certain characters are even fighting, or why they're "returned" after a forced hiatus in the second game.