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Manga News/Discussion |OTZ| Reading Shounen Garbage < Watching Moe Garbage
- Thread starter dramatis
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^Don't we have this exchange every couple months
You have so much cognitive dissonance. The same shit happens in Bleach. But we excuse it because its a comic, its not like you can EXPERTLY FORESHADOW the sort of nutty abilities shonen manga have.
You have so much cognitive dissonance. The same shit happens in Bleach. But we excuse it because its a comic, its not like you can EXPERTLY FORESHADOW the sort of nutty abilities shonen manga have.
TacticalFox88
Banned
The irony is delicious too.
Dedication Through Light
Member
The "training" ingredients has to be the worst part of Toriko. Training can be fun when its well thought out and fights meaningful.
Glass Rebel
Member
The point of training arcs that justify powerups is stupid anyway. They're best when they show the protagonist's emotional and mental growth and the new moves are just vehicles for the story.
Whether you show how a character acquired his asspull move, foreshadow to it or don't even mention its origin doesn't matter either way. They're still asspulls. One doesn't waste the readers' time though.
Whether you show how a character acquired his asspull move, foreshadow to it or don't even mention its origin doesn't matter either way. They're still asspulls. One doesn't waste the readers' time though.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Which is why DBZ is kind of awesome in this regard.
Toriyama had the perfect excuse when he created the Saiyans.
More emotion, anger, and near death experiences=Higher levels of power unlocked for the SSJ forms.
So, while they were asspulls. They were asspulls that made some sort of sense
And it still had tons of excessively long training arcs
TacticalFox88
Banned
DBZ training arcs were awesome.
Because Toriyama has this ability to keep you glued to your seat and watching.
If you ever wanted an anime/manga that's pure RAW entertainment, DBZ is in a tier of it's own.
This. This is why I still like Ippo, the training he goes through is often times just as good as the actual fights.
BassForever
Member
Thank you! I'm glad someone gets me
flintstryker
Banned
I say for raw entertainment value nothing beats Code Geass
Eh I don't know, it kinda helped that we were so young by then but I'm not sure if I still want to read a weekly manga where people meditate in a secluded room in order to get stronger for several chapters. I can still read DB again but because it's DB.
This is true but I find that most training arcs don't do it very well, even if they try to show the emotional and mental growth of the protagonist.
Also DBZ's method of powering up makes no real sense. Vegeta can become millions upon millions of times stronger just by getting his ass kicked twice. So what did the Saiyan's never get their ass kicked? They should have been powering up at ridiculous rates just by working under Frieza.
I can't fathom how incredibly boring reading DBZ must have been when it was still running. Holy shit.
SenorArdilla
Member
Kisei Kanojo Sana - Parasistence Sana 1
That was interesting... I guess.
That was interesting... I guess.
I have no problem with training arcs when it serves "world building" (can't find the right world for it) and character development. That's why I liked the Rasenshuriken training in Naruto, since it structured the elemental affinities, and the Kyuubi chakra mode training.
And you know, I would rather have a training arc for learning Haki than that bullshit off-screen time-skip we had in One Piece.
And you know, I would rather have a training arc for learning Haki than that bullshit off-screen time-skip we had in One Piece.
When I read E21 last year, in the second half, I was wondering how anyone could have read it ongoing- single games lasting 40+ chapters- or, you know, nearly a year of publication. The fact that DBZ also only averaged 14 pages (compared the the 20 most stuff is now) probably hurt even more.
Nothing is as bad as the FGT. Things can still have an explanation and make sense within the context of its manga and still be awful.
Besides, out of the 3 protagonists of the big 3, the only thing that Luffy has that would throw him into the spoiled hero category is conveniently being related to important figures (Ichigo and Naruto are as well) and having Conqueror's Haki, which isn't even exclusive to him.
Besides, out of the 3 protagonists of the big 3, the only thing that Luffy has that would throw him into the spoiled hero category is conveniently being related to important figures (Ichigo and Naruto are as well) and having Conqueror's Haki, which isn't even exclusive to him.
Glass Rebel
Member
This is what it ultimately comes down to: Are the asspulls reasonable within the context of the characters that pull them and the fictional world's logic?
Luffy coming up with the Gears is totally an asspull, no question. But it makes sense in several ways: Luffy is an absolute dolt most of the time but has shown something like a 6th sense when it comes to combat, coming up with moves and improvising and it's internally consistent with One Piece Gomu Gomu physics (read: anything goes). That he announces it beforehand doesn't even really matter.
The same way Aizen revealing that he has manipulated Ichigo's entire life is a total asspull but makes sense in Bleach because it's fucking Aizen.
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Like a boss~
Beelzebub 205
Furuichi being a badass = Great chapter
Already dreading that he's going to get another beat down next chapter.
We got a detailed explanation about the diffenrent kinds of haki, how they work and how one can train them, did we really need to see Luffy doing just that for 2 years?
Glass Rebel
Member
Oh absolutely, but that's because most training arcs mainly focus on cool moves and follow the Time to Unlock More True Potential trope. I honestly can't think of a great training arc.
As for DBZ, just speculation on my part but I always thought that the Saiyans rarely fought against enemies that could hold a candle to them, probably because Frieza knew about this trait.
And yet I did!
Well, you are a special one. And it had Murata art.
Cause:
1) It was good.
2) It stayed focused, there wasn't much hopping around at all. You had a sense of continuity from one chapter to the next and they never dropped the main plot to flashback for 4-5 weeks. This is a big problem the Big 3 has; there are just too many groups filled with throwaway characters doing their own thing to maintain cohesion week to week.
To be fair nothing serious happens until she turns 18.
So it's totally OK.
Their relationship is pretty creepy, yeah.
So he grooms her? I'm pretty sure that qualifies as grooming. Does Glass Mask end with 99% of the cast ending up on a child abuse register and Maya selling her story to the tabloids?
Yes, it was focused, but some matches really suffered from fatigue. By the Christmas Bowl a chapter covered a single minute half of the time.
Time is relativistic. The faster you move the slower you experience time. Clearly, it was a side effect of Sena moving too fast.
Also it was a finale.
Yeah, having EVERY SINGLE PLAY be the most important thing ever gets exhausting after a while.
Well, every play is important when it's the last match!
Boku wa Mari no Naka 15
Hmm, I wonder what the deal with that "gift" is as the girl seemed pretty shocked when she so casually hid it. ~the mystery deepens~
Hmm, I wonder what the deal with that "gift" is as the girl seemed pretty shocked when she so casually hid it. ~the mystery deepens~
will read
First, Rayleigh just introduced the abilities and how they work, but he didn't explain to the readers how one can train them. As far as I remember, it's still a mystery.
Second, I would rather have Luffy learn just the basics in a few days and then gradually develop them over the course of his adventure, so that the moment he would finally punch a Logia be a climatic moment instead of "Lol, I already learned how to do it off-screen". So I would take a training arc over that stupid time-skip that made the crew steamroll Fishman island.
But it wasn't just the Christmas Bowl! The two matches before that were the same way! I think that's why I hate that final arc so much, because I was worn out by then. I just needed it all to be over.
Does it really matter? Are you planning to try and train your Ambition tomorrow? Knowing exactly what Luffy did to get stronger isn't going to change anything when you see him Elephant Gun Blackbeard in the face.
You know I'd talking about that Japan vs America thing, right? Don't tell me you're going to defend that.
Stahp
I thought "Final arc" would have made it clear I was talking about the last thing that happ- OH I SEE.
And no, you didn't.
BassForever
Member
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