A2una1
Member
I'm looking forward to the thread on Release, when everybody and their mother post steam charts nobody is playing the game because it's "woke"
PS: It's on PS5
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PS: It's on PS5
Fabieter
Member
Art shouldn't be political.
near
Member
Yes I am one with the funk.
There’s nothing to really debate. Ideas do not exist in a vaccum. If you can’t understand why someone would remotely think of GotG when seeing the trailer that’s on you.
RJMacready73
Banned
It was an absolute given that ND where going to go down this route with this type of character, they don't do "pretty" anymore, they do gritty, urban, unconventional bla bla bla.. what they do well, is gameplay, world building, level design and push the boat in terms of visuals and story telling to the next level
They could give 2 shits what the average white man thinks, they don't make these games for you or the masses, they make em for themselves and they just happen to be fucking amazing that the masses buy em, would I have preferred a more conventionally attractive protagonist? Of course, who doesn't like looking at pretty things, there's a reason Hollywood fills it's top movies with good looking stars but Hollywood is run my by old white men making the decisions and the gaming industry is run by purple haired non binary fucks afraid of good looking women simply cause they'll never be one themselves so we get bald Asian manbody type chicks but let's face it would Eve work in this type of game? No she wouldn't so for now, I'll trust that ND made the right decision and it'll prove itself once we get our hands on it, at the end of the day it's ND they always come through in the end.
They could give 2 shits what the average white man thinks, they don't make these games for you or the masses, they make em for themselves and they just happen to be fucking amazing that the masses buy em, would I have preferred a more conventionally attractive protagonist? Of course, who doesn't like looking at pretty things, there's a reason Hollywood fills it's top movies with good looking stars but Hollywood is run my by old white men making the decisions and the gaming industry is run by purple haired non binary fucks afraid of good looking women simply cause they'll never be one themselves so we get bald Asian manbody type chicks but let's face it would Eve work in this type of game? No she wouldn't so for now, I'll trust that ND made the right decision and it'll prove itself once we get our hands on it, at the end of the day it's ND they always come through in the end.
Bernardougf
Member
Games are a form a art... but the Devs are not fucking Da Vinci ...they are making a product that has to sell 10 mil copies just to cover their budget. So popularity is important. Specially now with so much entertainment to consume our time.
Having said that ... ND and Cuckman can make the game they want... and we can be critical of anything we want .. its fair game bro.
I will always find amusing that the Dev can choose to show anything he wants... in this case he chose to make the "girl" bald and manly...but we cant comment on her baldness and lack of feminity... Will Smith vibes but in a massive scale.
Kronark
Member
My dude, what do you think the entire Cyberpunk genre is?
near
Member
Please tell me this is sarcasm. Otherwise, are you Chinese or just retarded?
Bernardougf
Member
Yes but maybe .. and just maybe... their image was a little soiled by their last "edgy progressive dont care about straigth white man feelings" game, and this time a lot of people have wized up .... the game will sell well ? Probably... but this is not a ND passion indy project ... its a product financed by Sony with sales expectations.
Treating your potential audience with indifference expecting that they will always swallow your product is a danger way to do business...
Time will tell...
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Mister Wolf
Member
You think it's only white men that have no interest playing as a woman that looks like a butch lesbian?
Yes, you can be critical. And you can and should vote with your wallet. But you can't, on the one hand demand that games be respected as an art form and, on the other, demand that they chase what you think is most popular because they're also a product. Game makers should make what they want, and the market will decide whether that's sustainable. So far, so good for ND.
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Fabieter
Member
So cyperpunk genre is video game propaganda for shitty real life ideology, interesting!
Bernardougf
Member
Agreed ... but I really dont think is "so far so good" for ND ... TLOU2 sold really well but I guarantee you it sold less than it should/could have and the aftermath was some degree of a fractured fanbase .. what degree remains to be seen... but like you said the market will decide if their ways are sustainable. And as long as Sony is ok in financing Drukmann "art" .. well more power to him and his fans.
Fabieter
Member
Well the wording might have not be the best. But this woke garbage is video game propaganda of real life ideology which couldn't be more stupid.
Art can and should be political if the artist wants it to be. BUT, if you choose to make political art you need to accept people who don't agree with you will choose to not engage with or speak out against you're art.
On the other hand, art that is not political (let's say Nintendo games?) are highly appreciative due to their ignorance of that part of reality.
I think both types of art have a right to exist, but political artists need to stand by their work and understand the consequences of doing that form of art.
PeteBull
Member
That was amazing movie, for our younger gaf-bros, strongly recommend it, here trailer:
VulcanRaven
Member
Why wouldn't it sell on its on merits? The Naughty Dog games I have played have had great gameplay. They seem to have good track record with new IPs.
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Kurt Russell only says 104 words for the entire run time. Whole lot of glaring and kicking ass. Great movie.
MrTroubleMaker
Gold Member
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
tlou2 is not woke. its amazing story with purpose.
it might have some elements nut as a whole, its more than just woke
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Are you high? Art has been one of the most powerful political tools for millennia.
The cyberpunk genre is a social commentary about consumerism, capitalism, government overreach, classism, corporations having too much power, and the breakdown of human society. The cyberpunk genre is one of the most overtly political out there.
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VulcanRaven
Member
MGS2 did the same thing in 2001 and people still regard it one of the best games on PS2. You played as a new character who even gets mistaken as a woman once. Actually I wish more developers would do things like that in trailers.
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PeteBull
Member
Its woke af, and its big downgrade vs first part in everything but graphics and animation.
Abby has strenght, endurance and resilence of a cyborg, her small womanly skull is more durable than steel, all to push agenda of strong independed women, aka lies
captainnapalm
Member
The purpose of art is not to be a political tool - and if that's your purpose you're making propaganda. Art can explore politics, contain political themes, but if it's going to be any good at all - it can not subordinate itself to politics.
Fabieter
Member
My wording was definitely off.
Still those guys with propaganda art and lectures for their customers can gtfo.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The purpose of art is whatever the artist decides. If they want to deliver a political message, that’s on the artist.
Art and propaganda aren’t mutually exclusive. Art has been and continues to be used as propaganda.
You have pieces such as Triumph of the Will, an influential German propaganda film, and Birth of a Nation, another propaganda film lauded for its technical achievements in filmmaking, that are indisputably art but were meant to be political from their conception.
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PeteBull
Member
Yup, we had plenty of propaganda here in Poland for 44years under communism , it only made us hate communism more, u can already tell similar effect is happening to sizeable part of western population that resists that woke propaganda massmedia is trying so hard to feed general population.
TLDR: The more they push, the stronger there will be pushback, its always like that, action and reaction.
I think their aproach of slowly cooking the frog without it noticing could have succeeded but wokeists got too impatient and greedy, and decided to go ham instead
Twitch streamers and their audience have been a disaster for gaming.
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
I'll never be able to unsee that now. We can still turn this car crash around, just get Jason Scott Lee to replace Tati Gabrielle as lead role and all will be forgiven.
near
Member
Since 2020.
Mister Wolf
Member
Agreed. Reading this makes me think about the post 9/11 run of Captain America. Awesome covers.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Thank you. The guy was designed to be an anti-Nazi superhero. Come on.Agreed. Reading this makes me think about the post 9/11 run of Captain America. Awesome covers.
I also updated my post and mentioned Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation. There are countless pieces of art that were conceived as a response to politics or were outright meant to carry a political or social message. That art cannot subject itself to politics to be good is so naive and out of touch with reality.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
So you’ve not played the game.Its woke af, and its big downgrade vs first part in everything but graphics and animation.
Abby has strenght, endurance and resilence of a cyborg, her small womanly skull is more durable than steel, all to push agenda of strong independed women, aka lies
near
Member
Considering they couldn’t get Factions 2 out the door after years of development. I doubt they’ll try that with an action game.
captainnapalm
Member
Yeah but if the artist sets out to deliver a political message, it's going to be overly didactic and preachy, or it will ring false. Art is about confronting the unknown and hopefully revealing truth. It's one of the highest forms of expression, whereas politics is about simplifying complex issues to try and influence and persuade. Very different things.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
But then you have Birth of a Nation, widely considered one of the greatest American films ever, that set out to deliver a political message. Triumph of the Will, another highly influential German film created specifically for propaganda purposes. Captain America, one of the most famous superheroes on the planet was created for as an anti-Nazi tool. What to say of political songs that tackle themes such as war, the government, political issues, and more?
I vehemently disagree that art cannot subject itself to politics to be great. If anything, some of the greatest pieces have been created because the author felt strongly about a certain political topic and used art as a vehicle to deliver their message.
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PeteBull
Member
That short clip alone is enough to show it off, abby gets hit on the temple, with a steel, yet still manages to overpower strong man right after, brock lesnar wouldnt be able to endure it, not to mention fragile feminine skull abby, unless ofc she is a cyborg, she says herself she is fine after
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
Didn't play Last of us 1 or 2, won't be playing this either, naughty dog just don't make interesting games anymore.
VulcanRaven
Member
I liked everything in the trailer except that robot. I hoped to see cyperpunk style cities but apparently you stranded on some planet in this. That doesn't sound very exciting but I'm sure this will be great.
captainnapalm
Member
Some superheroes were created as WW2 propaganda but they ultimately had to transcend that or they would have died out.
Bob Dylan always insisted his songs were not political and he never wanted to be seen as a political figure for exactly this reason.
Films like Triumph of the Will and Birth of a Nation? Come on, they're remembered for some of their technical achievements but their artistic legacies have rightly been tarnished for being propaganda.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
That short clip alone is enough to show it off, abby gets hit on the temple, with a steel, yet still manages to overpower strong man right after, brock lesnar wouldnt be able to endure it, not to mention fragile feminine skull abby, unless ofc she is a cyborg, she says herself she is fine after
tommy is an old fuck.
Abby is younger and packing muscles.
Can we not have this conversation?
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Factions 2 was a major standalone project. It couldn't get out of the door because they wouldn't support it long-term.
If this game has a multiplayer, it will be much smaller in comparison with very little support after its release.
Fahdis
Member
Just watched the trailer for the first time.
- Bald bitch is ugly and has a male name
- Product placement does not bother me
- Game looks mid at best
- Facial motion capture looks amazing
- Eyepatch lady has a sexy voice
- Last scene made me laugh
I don't get why people are so up at arms about this. There is nothing to decipher from a small cutscene. WipeOut ship looked cool though. Personally, I am more disappointed on why people are talking about this so much? Let's see how the game manifests itself.
*protag definitely is divisive but why give a shit, we have asians to counter the woke if that's whats bothering people.
- Bald bitch is ugly and has a male name
- Product placement does not bother me
- Game looks mid at best
- Facial motion capture looks amazing
- Eyepatch lady has a sexy voice
- Last scene made me laugh
I don't get why people are so up at arms about this. There is nothing to decipher from a small cutscene. WipeOut ship looked cool though. Personally, I am more disappointed on why people are talking about this so much? Let's see how the game manifests itself.
*protag definitely is divisive but why give a shit, we have asians to counter the woke if that's whats bothering people.