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NBA Finals 2016 |OT| - The King demands seconds. The Chef delivers.

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Is Kyrie really as bad on defense as people are claiming in this thread?

I wonder if Cavs can capitalize on 2nd chance points to keep them in the game points wise.

Also get the Warriors in foul trouble by attacking the basket?
 

Mr.Sumal

Member
Do the playoffs come with magical boosts in athleticism and defensive IQ.

Because I don't know how you get around Love and Kyrie's deficiencies if they haven't figured it out by now.

Cavs should be worried about Irving since the guy will get lit up by curry or Klay plus he's a ball stopper. You can hide Love on Bogut or Ezeli but he shouldn't guard Green or it will get ugly

Cavs do catch a break here after all curry is not 100% so he will be missing shots he can easily make. Iman Shumpert and Delladova need to study the game tapes of OKC-GSW series and watch carefully Robertson's defense because that man played great perimeter defense on the splash bros however Klay's miracle game 6 performance is the reason why he isn't playing in the finals for the most of the series he was a pest to Klay and frustrated the heck out of him

I don't know why people are downplaying Irving & Love, after all, they are the two best players on the Cavs after Lebron and Lebron himself took 2 from GSW imagine it now when he has a healthy squad
 
If anyone is going HAM it's JR Smith. Whether or not it's good for Cleveland or Golden State remains to be seen.

18fd7q8hk31spjpg.jpg

OT I want the cavs to win, I really do but I have no confidence in Love's and Irving's defense. I have a feeling they will get lit up.
 

Miracle

Member
Warriors in 5.

Thunder had great defense and a huge size and length advantage which made it a nightmare matchup for the Warriors, but even that wasn't enough. Going from big and great defensive frontcourt of Ibaka and Adams, and great defensive backcourt with Westbrook and Roberson, to now...Love & Thompson, and Irving & Smith...All much smaller and much weaker defensively.

Lebron would have to Super Demi-God Legend Mode to counter Super Sayian Curry and the Warriors to even have a chance.
 
Is Kyrie really as bad on defense as people are claiming in this thread?

I wonder if Cavs can capitalize on 2nd chance points to keep them in the game points wise.

Also get the Warriors in foul trouble by attacking the basket?

Kyrie is terrible on defense. Like, probably the worst PG defensively in the league.

Cavs capitalizing on 2nd chance points will mean they are playing their big lineup, which means they will likely be torched on defense.

The Warriors will feast attacking the basket because unlike OKC, Cleveland has no rim protectors. All those runners and layups that Klay and Curry were having trouble making over Adams and Durant will magically start falling.
 
Kyrie is terrible on defense. Like, probably the worst PG defensively in the league.

Cavs capitalizing on 2nd chance points will mean they are playing their big lineup, which means they will likely be torched on defense.

The Warriors will feast attacking the basket because unlike OKC, Cleveland has no rim protectors. All those runners and layups that Klay and Curry were having trouble making over Adams and Durant will magically start falling.
He's not the worst. He's 81st best out of 85. Show some respeck.
 

Iadien

Guarantee I'm going to screw up this post? Yeah.
Is Kyrie really as bad on defense as people are claiming in this thread?

I wonder if Cavs can capitalize on 2nd chance points to keep them in the game points wise.

Also get the Warriors in foul trouble by attacking the basket?

Him and Love are both awful on defense.
 
I think the WCF was as close as we'll get to seeing the Warriors lose. What OKC has that other teams don't (including the Cavs) are long athletic defenders and rebounding. In theory, that setup could defeat the Warriors bc they could switch picks and use their length to recover. I lost track of how many times Curry or Igoudala turned the corner, but KD was so damned long and athletic that he snuffed out the play anyway. And Roberson and Ibaka were beasts on D also.

And yet they still lost bc the Warriors hit one impossible 3 after another. The Cavs aren't close to that level on D. They better hope that Curry still isn't 100% and can only really light it up in short bursts.
 

beat

Member
Honestly, I would try trapping Klay and Steph whenever the opportunity presents itself. Force Green, Barnes, Iguodala, Livingston, or whoever is the worst shoot on the floor to beat you. It's tough because those guys are good passers but I don't think the Cavs have the athletes to switch.
Livingston isn't a 3pt threat but the rest of those guys are, or at least in mismatch situations out of a double. And Livingston is very solid with midrange shots.
 

microdot

Member
If anyone is going HAM it's JR Smith. Whether or not it's good for Cleveland or Golden State remains to be seen.

Splash brothers meet hash brother.

IMO the majority of the games will be decided by 3 pt shootouts. Both teams are shooting at a ridiculous clip so far.
 

Joei

Member
Except I was giving an example against a relevant opponent in a relevant game. He played his ass off that game. Is he the best defender in the league? Obviously not. I feel he has the ability to get the job done though.
 

kaiju

Member
I'm just a casual NBA observer. I saw the highlights of Golden State's game 7 win.

My god, Curry completely obliterated OKC at the very very end. The highlight where Curry is all alone, dribbling towards the net, and THEN ENABLES KONAMI CHEAT CODE around a bunch of OKC players and effortlessly throws down the 3.

OKC was hopeless. What can they possibly do to combat that?

Fixed that for you
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Cavs should be worried about Irving since the guy will get lit up by curry or Klay plus he's a ball stopper. You can hide Love on Bogut or Ezeli but he shouldn't guard Green or it will get ugly

Cavs do catch a break here after all curry is not 100% so he will be missing shots he can easily make. Iman Shumpert and Delladova need to study the game tapes of OKC-GSW series and watch carefully Robertson's defense because that man played great perimeter defense on the splash bros however Klay's miracle game 6 performance is the reason why he isn't playing in the finals for the most of the series he was a pest to Klay and frustrated the heck out of him

I don't know why people are downplaying Irving & Love, after all, they are the two best players on the Cavs after Lebron and Lebron himself took 2 from GSW imagine it now when he has a healthy squad

He will? I mean he shot 41.6% on 11 3PA per game against the tougher Thunder defense. Not sure you can expect to get worse percentages then that from Curry this series.

I don't call pointing out that Love and Irving are major net negative defenders and don't provide enough offense to offset it against a Warriors team that is poised to have better offensive output because of those deficiencies, downplaying them. Both are regularly great offensive players this post season but awful defenders. Which is going to create a different dynamic this series then last year.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Except I was giving an example against a relevant opponent in a relevant game. He played his ass off that game. Is he the best defender in the league? Obviously not. I feel he has the ability to get the job done though.

Based on two highlights?

Because Im more apt to look at things like his Defending FG% this playoffs. Which is currently at 50.7%. 7% worse then the average those he defended averaged. And he hasn't exactly been guarding offensive juggernauts like Thompson and Curry this post season.

Or Lowe when he pointed this out:

Opponents in the playoffs have scored 1.09 points per chance when they involve those two[Love and Irving] as the primary pick-and-roll defenders in a play that leads directly to a shot attempt, drawn foul or turnover, per SportVU data provided to ESPN.com. That would have ranked last by a mile among 119 two-man combos that defended at least 250 pick-and-rolls in the regular season, per that SportVU data set.
 
Except I was giving an example against a relevant opponent in a relevant game. He played his ass off that game. Is he the best defender in the league? Obviously not. I feel he has the ability to get the job done though.

Name one defender on this team other than Lebron that is better than anything GSW faced against the Thunder? Who is better than Westbrook? Who is better than Roberson? Who is better than Adams and Ibaka? Who is better than Dion Waiters (maybe Shumpert)?

Tristan Thompson is probably the only player that gets minutes on that team that can even compare to the OKC bigs but even he is a breathe of relief compared to those monsters. I'm just telling you now, whether they win it all or not, don't fool yourself into believing things that just aren't true.
 

bionic77

Member
Name one defender on this team other than Lebron that is better than anything GSW faced against the Thunder? Who is better than Westbrook? Who is better than Roberson? Who is better than Adams and Ibaka? Who is better than Dion Waiters (maybe Shumpert)?

Tristan Thompson is probably the only player that gets minutes on that team that can even compare to the OKC bigs but even he is a breathe of relief compared to those monsters. I'm just telling you now, whether they win it all or not, don't fool yourself into believing things that just aren't true.
Shumpert is an elite defender IMO.
 

TTG

Member
Is it that time already? My initial thoughts on OKC last round versus the finals(yea, it's from a Warrior fan's point of view, go figure):

-OKC were the best post season defense. They are the longest and most athletic team in the league. I mean: Adams, Ibaka, and Durant are all 7 feet then you have Roberson and the terminator Westbrook. They also have two 7 footers that could play small ball against the Warriors and not lose a step in Ibaka and Durant. It's a totally unique ball club, they have aliens.

-OKC was the best offensive rebounding team all season and post season. Westbrook and Durant making your big men scramble to challenge at the rim followed by freak show athletes rebounding. Oh, and there's Russ who I would take over most 4s and 5s rebounding.

The Cavaliers have neither of those things. I have no doubt that they'll try very hard on defense and will play good individual defense(well, apart from Love). The problem is the Warriors aren't really looking for isos unless they've got an obvious mismatch. Kyrie can turn up his effort and do well, but what happens when they run pick and rolls, he has to switch or run off 3 screens? They obviously don't have the length or shot blocking at the rim. They've got Tristan Thompson on the glass, but he's one dude. Bogut's fat ass will be adequate on one guy. They may have the advantage, but it's not going to be like OKC when you look up and they've had 10 more possessions AT THE HALF. The Cavs have shooting and they have Lebron. Kyrie and Westbrook are a wash on Kyrie's best day, Love is not crucial to anything.

If there's one thing I want to point out it's that the Warriors absolutely will not look offensively the way they did last year. One, they're not going to clench up. Two, Draymond Green will not be careening to the rim, or just sort of ok at finding the open corner 3 out of a Curry double, he's much improved this year. Three, Klay Thompson's been killing it all post season.
 

bionic77

Member
Ok take away elite and replace it with really good.

As was pointed out he is a liability on offense if his shot is not falling.

I would try to play him a little more. Lue has his work cut out for him in figuring out the best lineup against the Warriors.
 

offtopic

He measures in centimeters
He will? I mean he shot 41.6% on 11 3PA per game against the tougher Thunder defense. Not sure you can expect to get worse percentages then that from Curry this series.

Well, that % might be misleading since he really only looked like himself in game 7 in terms of his lateral movement. He couldn't shake the larger defenders earlier in the series and OKC was very smart in telling their big guys to not retreat when he threatened to drive. Game seven though he just embarrassed the larger defenders with lateral moves that gave him easy (for him) looks. Face guarding him with a larger defender would be an extremely bad idea for the Cavs.
 

bionic77

Member
Don't forget he was on Klay last year and did well.

This funny picture came out of it
EpFEodj.jpg
I think a lot of the Warrior players were shook by being in the finals last year.

I don't see that being a problem this year. Also Klay is playing at a different level this year. Honestly so is Steph.
 
Shumpert is a solid defender. The problem is that guys like he and Thompson who are zeroes on offense can be exploited too easily by great teams like the Warriors and rendered unplayable.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Well, that % might be misleading since he really only looked like himself in game 7 in terms of his lateral movement. He couldn't shake the larger defenders earlier in the series and OKC was very smart in telling their big guys to not retreat when he threatened to drive. Game seven though he just embarrassed the larger defenders with lateral moves that gave him easy (for him) looks. Face guarding him with a larger defender would be an extremely bad idea for the Cavs.

He certainly was hampered by what I don't think anyone would argue is the superior defensive team in OKC but Curry still managed to go +40% from 3, 4 out of 7 games.

I just don't see how CLE can hope to replicate that. Especially, as you pointed out, Curry and Kerr seemed to figure out how to counter a lot of what OKC was doing by series end.

I also wonder if I can realistically expect the refs to allow the sort of off ball chipping and contact they let OKC get away with or if they do, if CLE can even consistently do it like OKC did.
 
I think a lot of the Warrior players were shook by being in the finals last year.

I don't see that being a problem this year. Also Klay is playing at a different level this year. Honestly so is Steph.

The showed signs of shook vs okc too. They lucked out that klay had that amazing game in game 6. Also you realize their defense is worse this season right? Cavs now have options when to use offense or defense. Cavs know how to slow the game down and it works vs GS.
 
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