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NBA Finals 2016 |OT| - The King demands seconds. The Chef delivers.
- Thread starter Gully State
- Start date
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XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Alright, let's get this out of the way early so this thread doesn't get worse before the games actually start.
Let's knock it off with the nonsensical hot take trolling analysis stuff. It's not constructive, is the worst semblance of "trash talk," it irritates pretty much everyone. and prevents genuine analysis and discussion from getting off the ground.
Trash talking is fine - but let's at least base it in some semblance of what's actually happening. Not random bullshit.
TrumanBurbank
Member
Question of the day: if Curry wins 7 straight titles, is he the GOAT?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'm honestly flabbergasted by any analysis that has Lebron/Kyrie putting up bigger numbers than Durant/Westbrook last series.
Westbrook is a far, far better player than Kyrie on both ends of the floor. And Durant isn't the playmaker Lebron is, but he's a much better shooter.
It will be very difficult for the Cavs to lean on them as much as OKC did, especially if Kerr cuts the bs and starts Iggy over Barnes from the jump.
Edit: no this guy did not put James Jones in a bench list wars. In terms of raw points and differential, Cleveland has one of the worst benches in the league.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/16/7/diffeff/1-1
Westbrook is a far, far better player than Kyrie on both ends of the floor. And Durant isn't the playmaker Lebron is, but he's a much better shooter.
It will be very difficult for the Cavs to lean on them as much as OKC did, especially if Kerr cuts the bs and starts Iggy over Barnes from the jump.
Edit: no this guy did not put James Jones in a bench list wars. In terms of raw points and differential, Cleveland has one of the worst benches in the league.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/16/7/diffeff/1-1
I was going to respond to your whole dismissal of the WCF in your last post but after this post i'm confident your whole position is nothing but bait.
ryutaro's mama
Member
If for no other reason than he strands LeBron on 2 championships...as LeBron turns 38 years old.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I already gave a general warning above. Anyone who disregards it moving forward, they can't say they weren't warned ahead of time.
Syphon Filter
Member
cavs have more options than okc.
Lionel Richie
Member
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Yeah, they have the option of sacrificing defense for offense with every lineup because they have almost no two-way players.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
For example, saying that the Cavs is a better coached team than Warriors is an opinion, I think it's a pretty crazy opinion, but again, you are entitled to it just as you're entitled to think that they play terrible basketball.
But saying that the don't have set plays is demonstrably false.
Honest question, do you know what set plays are?
p.s.
Wait, you're saying that Billy fucking Donovan should've won coach of the year?
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, I might have to reconsider my stance on the whole entitled to have an opinion thing.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Offensively? Sure. Defensively they are not on the same level. Tristian Thompson is a good rebounder but he's no where near as laterally agile or athletic as Steven Adams, which was key. Westbrook was very physical defensively with Curry in the first few games, which clearly had an effect on Steph and wore him down. Kyrie, on the other hand, well calling him a point guard is almost unfair as it implies he knows how to guard. Love? Another okay rebounder, but play him at the 5 and he's again no match for Adams as a defender or rim protector. As a 4? Again, can't come anywhere close to mimicking what Durant did defensively against GS, which was brilliant. OKC had 3 above average rim defenders they could throw in the game at any time, Ibaka, KD and Adams. Cleveland has zero. Golden State's struggles last series came almost entirely from what OKC did defensively.
basic_element
Member
I can't tell if this is a joke post or not. What got me is the Better coached and more deadly bench mentioning mo Williams and James Jones. Lmao.
It's not terrible fundamentals if you have Klay Thompson and Steph Curry lol. Do you also think it's terrible to intentionally foul and put ~50% FT shooters on the line when you're almost definitely giving up a point per possession?
CaptBirdman
Banned
Eh, I mean yeah I have to admit that when you have those guys then it's hard not to let it fly, but most of us are human.
Heck, back in college, I was an above average 3pt shooter but if I took those shots they took, I'd be benched almost immediately. A lot of the fans of GS are younger, so I don't think constant pulling from 3, even when guarded teaches them good fundamentals.
About the freethrow thing, I have mixed feelings. One could say they shouldn't allow it because it slows the pace but then again, learn how to shoot freethrows and we don't have that issue.
Killa Sasa
Member
The hot takes are already amazing. Gotta love it.
thehypocrite
Member
The game requires/feeds itself of more things than just scoring.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2016_leaders.html
CaptBirdman
Banned
Thanks for posting this. Couldn't post because I'm on mobile.
Proves my point about Channing Frye.
There is a pretty big difference between an above average 3 pt shooter in college and Steph Curry.
CaptBirdman
Banned
No I totally agree and that is my point... if not even an above average shooter could/should do it, don't you think that sends the wrong message to the kids that are watching?
I've seen the fruits of people thinking they're Curry.
It ain't pretty... lol
kaiju
Member
beat
Member
Passing to the open man isn't a game plan breakdown. That's... a play. (By the way, "even with a man in your face" contradicts "the open man".)
There's a lot more information about Warriors plays at Golden State of Mind, in reverse-chronological order:
Obviously Klay and Steph are their first and second options, but their plays are designed with multiple options depending on what the defense gives them. They're a well-coached team. The difference between them and most well-coached teams is that, yes, when their plays do completely break down, Steph makes contested threes as reliably as regular shooters do when wide open. A possession that ends with a tightly contested Steph three has an expected point value of 1.26 points. That's incredible! The greatest NBA team offense of all time averaged 1.156 points per possession.
CaptBirdman
Banned
Not even. Curry is the greatest shooter ever, and Klay isn't too far behind. Like I said above, those guys aren't human haha
I'm just saying that we are, and no matter how you slice it, it's not fundamentally sound to play that way. You live by the three, you die by the three, and they almost died, down 3-1.
Here we go again. Using percentages to prove a point.
It's not just the percentages. Frye is significantly important to the Cavs, and is one of the league leaders in Win Shares per 48, the league leader in Offensive Rating, the leader in TS% (which is a far better metric than pure FG%), and yes, the league leader in 3P% at 60%, but at 4 attempts per game!
Those are not insignificant things and thus supports my claim that Frye is the best 3P shooter in the playoffs right now.
For reference, Curry and Klay are shooting 40% and 45%, respectively, both at 10 attepmts per game. Great numbers, but doesn't best Frye's. Also consider those guys are starters and Frye comes off the bench.
Dude has some ridiculous 3 pt streak going right now, like 47 out of 50 or something like that. Can't find it atm but perhaps someone better at stats fishing could do the honors.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Why? Cavs are one of the most emotionally unstable teams
kaiju
Member
Thank you for gracing us with your presence, Mr. Barkley.
I'm being serious here, you really sound like Chuck.
Oh, you are one of those people huh?
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
I haven't been following closely this season but my gut says the lakers are going all the way
Ninja Scooter
Member
People who "don't believe" in analytics or stats because they don't tell the future always seem to miss the point of analytics and statistics.
CaptBirdman
Banned
Gully State
Member
I think he's closer to Mark Jackson. Steph and Klay are great shooters but they're ruining the game. That kid's a fighter..check out his pedigree...mom's a nurse, dad's a blue collar steel worker. Hustle and Heart..Hand down, man down...momma there goes that man again..
In all seriousness, I don't get why people are all of a sudden disrespecting OKC. They had a solid playoff run for the most part. I thought Donovan did a good job coaching. I feel like the Thunder have the players and just need a good offseason for everyone to really buy into what Donovan's doing. The defense is legit and if they start trusting each other to run plays during crunch time, that's a formidable contender for at least the next few seasons.
CaptBirdman
Banned
thehypocrite
Member
I don't see that on the court or the stats. But I'm sure you have a lot of tales to support your claim.
Says Lebron is the best player when Curry has won two back to back Mvps and broke the regular season record. Golden state in 5.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Stats are important, but even from a statistical perspective, basketball is a make or miss league. When you calculate the expected points of a shot (given location, difficulty, and ability of the shooter) and compare that to the actual points scored, the difference varies randomly from one game to the next. There are too many intangible factors or plain old luck deciding if your shots get a friendly roll or go halfway down and pop out.
So in a small enough sample size (4 out of 7 games), the Cavs are potent enough offensively to win if they outperform their expected points per shot while the Warriors underperform. Which is a distinct possibility. Or it could go the other way in which case the Warriors would sweep the Finals. The one outcome I wouldn't expect would be Cavs in 4 or 5.
None of this discounts statistics, but acknowledges the high variability in basketball if the two teams are reasonably well matched. Warriors are the better team, but it's not a huge mismatch. Variance could tip the scales in the Cavs' favor.
Shitty players have been emulating superstars since well before curry... Jordan's circus layups and Kobe's fadeaways weren't good for kids watching either. Not sure I understand your point.
thehypocrite
Member
Somebody tell the players & ABC, there's no need to play the games cause we know who's winning already because of the past.
Stats favor the GSW handily. We understood that by page 1, the games need to be played and all those models would be put test while the result it's obtained. I remember last year that based on stats GSW was going to sweep, they were also beating OchoKeC in five games but ended up scraping by in 7 games, but I digress.
I accept stats cause they are an abstraction of the past facts and hold predictive value, games still need to be played.
Stats favor the GSW handily. We understood that by page 1, the games need to be played and all those models would be put test while the result it's obtained. I remember last year that based on stats GSW was going to sweep, they were also beating OchoKeC in five games but ended up scraping by in 7 games, but I digress.
I accept stats cause they are an abstraction of the past facts and hold predictive value, games still need to be played.
You're right, games do need to be played. Four games.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Cavs in 6.
I want to believe. Best chance since Kenny Lofton's Indians to bring home a 'Ship. Here's hoping.
I want to believe. Best chance since Kenny Lofton's Indians to bring home a 'Ship. Here's hoping.
thehypocrite
Member
Keep writing those checks.
johnny_park
Member
He hasn't even taken 50 three pointers this postseason. He's 26 out of 45....which is great but if he was to take the same amount of threes as Klay and Steph that number would drop.
Also this live by the three die by the three, your basically talking about both teams. Cleveland is jacking up just as much threes as GSW.
King Tubby
Member
Forget best 3P shooter in the playoffs right now, going by those stats Frye is by far the best offensive player in the whole playoffs. He has the highest 2P FG% as well. Clearly he should be put into the starting lineup and should be the focal point of the Cavs' offense.
Or he's on a hot streak and doing well in a very small sample size, and it would be a lot more reliable to consider overall career and season in evaluating what a player's true talent level is.
User 479360
Banned
My cheering will go towards the Warriors. Screw Lebron.
However, I doubt I'll watch much, if any of it since the Raptors are out.
However, I doubt I'll watch much, if any of it since the Raptors are out.
The Cavs need to hope Klay and Curry are relatively cold, which could definitely happen. Curry has proven himself in clutch moments, but he needs to be there the entire game, not just for a quarter. If those two are on, and the rest of the team plays at least to their average, I think the series is GSW in 6. 6 at most.
Souless_PJ
Banned
http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...i-app-featuring-animated-versions-of-himself#
This is going to get some use in these next five games.
This is going to get some use in these next five games.
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