That's the game though. We're not going to look back and say that GSW's title this year if they win is lessened because Livingston stepped up in game one rather than Curry. We're also not going to say "well Curry might not have made the game winner at OKC under different alternate universe scenarios". Who cares? He won. Appreciate.
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NBA Finals 2016 |OT| - The King demands seconds. The Chef delivers.
- Thread starter Gully State
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Dion Blaster
Member
Don't Lebron haters already have enough ammo in his 2-5 finals record without having to resort to hypothesizing how games would have ended in alternate dimensions?
Chewy Chipmunk
Banned
Why does it matter? They won.
Pat Riley did a lot of legwork in order to get Ray Allen on that team, knowing that a single moment, a single shot like the one at the end of Game 6 could arise.
Ray Allen was part of that team. That shot was part of their season. Anyone claiming an epic comeback win "shouldn't have happened" is an idiot. The Heat won that game, and the series, and that accomplishment is theirs and theirs alone. If the Spurs "choked", then they were a worse team than Miami was, who did not choke.
Ray Allen was part of that team. That shot was part of their season. Anyone claiming an epic comeback win "shouldn't have happened" is an idiot. The Heat won that game, and the series, and that accomplishment is theirs and theirs alone. If the Spurs "choked", then they were a worse team than Miami was, who did not choke.
True Savior
Member
The cavs should just hire bruce bowen and hope that either klay or curry fall on one of his feet.
I could say that legends like Ray should make clutch game winners for his team.
"Should have" is just not a useful phrase in sports.
scoobs
Member
That wasn't my point. My point was he's 2-4 (and barring a miracle 1-5) and its further evidence that his teams just aren't as good as the best teams in the NBA when they probably should be given how much better he is than everyone else., Furthermore, its just another example of how the Eastern Conference is a complete joke since the Celtics broke up.
LeBron could go on vacation mid-season and come back a week before the playoffs and sweep the eastern conf every year for the next 5 years. Part of that, nay, most of that is LeBron's greatness, but part of it is how fucking shitty every single team is in that conference. This is why LeBron loses in the 'ship every year. He barely tries all year long because his opponents suck butt hole and by the time he's in the finals he's actually playing quality opponents and he loses. This could easily happen every year until he retires.
The man might end up going 2-9 in finals appearances and end up being the best all around player that ever lived. Its fucking bizarre.
Chewy Chipmunk
Banned
But...they won? Who cares about hypothetical situations?
What? Unless the refs straight blow a call the team that won a game deserved to win it. Nothing you're writing is making any sense. Are you claiming late game shots by role players negate wins? Besides LeBron killed the spurs in game 7 and brought the heat back in game 6 to set up a chance for Allen's three to mean anything.
CherryWoodFuton
Member
What the fuck is this bullshit? Who's fault is it that the Heat won that game? The fucking Spurs not anyone else (not even Lebron since he kind of set up that Ray Allen tying god shot).
Love allowed Draymond to play point forward freely and run the team.
When the thunder played the warriors, durant really restricted Draymond and made it a lot tougher for him. It's a huge reason the series was close.
Sure Love got his stats, but if he wants to stay out on the floor somebody's got to guard Draymond.
scoobs
Member
Its like.. you're not reading anything I'm saying. The fact that the Heat won is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. Read the rest, that is what I'm talking about. I'm not sitting here trying to talk shit on the Heat lol. Maybe you're reading it that way, but it is not my intention.
And Draymond is a pretty mediocre offensive player, i really don't think Cle needs to think about him at all. Keep shutting down Klay and Steph and that is your only shot to win this thing. Besides, you have to figure Draymond will end up getting ejected for kicking at least 2 or 3 people in the junk or face.
Chewy Chipmunk
Banned
But...they won? A Heat player won them the game. Why is this so hard to understand?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If anything his win should have an asterisk given that it happened in a lockout season.
scoobs
Member
Okay you're officially not reading what I'm saying. I'm done here.
Chewy Chipmunk
Banned
No, it sounds like you've realized how bad your initial statement is after a bunch of people shat on you and you're trying to back out.
CherryWoodFuton
Member
Does his team deserve to be there? There's a question of legitimacy there, in terms of whether or not the Eastern Conference is any good. This year and last they weren't. It's arguable the closest team to his teams was a Pacers team a few years ago. Could this Cavs have gotten to the Western Conference Finals? I highly doubt it.
excaliburps
Press - MP1st.com
People were saying how Cleveland had the "perfect" team to beat GSW and how the regular season didn't count/matter.
GSW had the best practice for the Cavs by going against OKC.
Westbrook is more explosive/better than Kyrie.
Ibaka is like a more defensive minded version of Kevin Love (with less offense).
Durant is like a longer, better scorer version of Bron Bron (weaker defense, tougher interior scorer).
At this point, does anyone think this hurts the Cavs' psyche? They got blown out by 30+ in their last regular season game. Fired coach, tried a new system (small tweaks), and got blown out in Game 1 with the Splash Bros. basically stinking up the place.
And it's not like Kyrie (26 pts) and K. Love (17 pts, 13 rebs) sucked balls. Heck, LBJ was one assist away from a triple double.
Maybe Lou should up the tempo like what the Cavs did against ATL and the like? Granted, it's easy to assume why he didn't want to do that since you're playing to your enemies' strengths, and the GSW bench is deeper which will cause mayhem once Bron and Kyrie needs some blow.
If Klay and/or Steph brings it in Game 2 and it's another blowout, Bron might need to blow up his team (CP3 for Kyrie) or it will be a long and painful twilight of his career.
GSW had the best practice for the Cavs by going against OKC.
Westbrook is more explosive/better than Kyrie.
Ibaka is like a more defensive minded version of Kevin Love (with less offense).
Durant is like a longer, better scorer version of Bron Bron (weaker defense, tougher interior scorer).
At this point, does anyone think this hurts the Cavs' psyche? They got blown out by 30+ in their last regular season game. Fired coach, tried a new system (small tweaks), and got blown out in Game 1 with the Splash Bros. basically stinking up the place.
And it's not like Kyrie (26 pts) and K. Love (17 pts, 13 rebs) sucked balls. Heck, LBJ was one assist away from a triple double.
Maybe Lou should up the tempo like what the Cavs did against ATL and the like? Granted, it's easy to assume why he didn't want to do that since you're playing to your enemies' strengths, and the GSW bench is deeper which will cause mayhem once Bron and Kyrie needs some blow.
If Klay and/or Steph brings it in Game 2 and it's another blowout, Bron might need to blow up his team (CP3 for Kyrie) or it will be a long and painful twilight of his career.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
That's what I'm saying. He could easily be 1*-5 without that Ray Allen bailout.
Why is it a bailout?
Ray Allen made a three point shot - it's kinda what he's good at?
Also, LeBron made a three point shot just before Ray to get the game within 3.
Lolololol Knicks.
hunchback
Member
It's called Monday morning quarterback. We as sports fans have probably been doing it since the first professional league was created.
It's also one of the main topics in sports radio and some tv.
Radio guy says to other radio guy: What if James had passed to Wade instead of Allen. Second radio guy: Wade would have missed the shot.
I think you get what I'm saying. A large amount of sports fans do it and there is nothing wrong with it. I'm willing to bet you have done it yourself.
Since that doesn't mean anything it can be argued just fine.
By that logic the dubs don't "deserve" these finals either. And I'm using logic loosely here.
Chewy Chipmunk
Banned
There's a difference between going WHAT IF HE DID THAT recently after it happened and years later completely discounting a championship because a player on the team made a shot.
What you're talking about is discussion of failure to execute strategy. Saying "what if Ray Allen missed his shot" is not Monday morning quarterbacking. It's literally just sitting there wishing Heat had less points and Spurs had more points.
hunchback
Member
I completely agree with you on that if it's just recently. But people have been saying that since the night after the shot by Allen. It was on radio, tv and being said by fans.
TheAutomator
Banned
Credit where it's due, Lebron made the finals 6 times in a row. He is one of the GOATs no doubt. He just needs help 'cause Cleveland is trash.
Diprosalic
Banned
he formed not one but two super teams with two top 15 players (at the time) and spending 10s of millions more than any other team in one of the shittiest eastern conference in history. i'm not giving him credit for going there 6 times but i'm also not docking him for losing when he did. his teams shouldn't have been there in the first place. he's a great player no doubt.
The lengths people go to in order to discredit Lebron is downright laughable
They're probably thinking "hmm my prediction didn't come true oh well." What losers!
They clearly lost a road game in which the other team's two biggest stars barely helped. That's gotta hurt.
Cavs starting unit outclassed Golden States. Most of this about Love and Kyrie has been horseshit. Kyrie did great 1 on 1 vs Steph and LeBron made him work off the ball. If Cavs offense showed up then no way GS wins with the way Steph/Klay played. I seriously don't think Livingstons offense is gonna win them the series.
I seriously doubt they are that down after successfully limiting Klay/Steph. Again Livingston, Igudola and Barbosa are not that high of a rock to climb.
elrechazado
Banned
Ok and okc choked away game six, so steph doesn't deserve this one when they win? Dumb narrative is dumb.
metalslimer
Member
People really shouldn't be talking about miracles after GSW just came back from down 3-1. OKC could have won all those games but didn't the same way the spurs couldn't hit their free throws in game 6
Klay and Currys worst shooting night ever is chalked up to great defense despite them missing several chippys at the rim and WIDE open 3s. But the Cavs missing shots is them just not showing up? Even when GS has a much better defense statistically?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Cavs were outscored in the first quarter and gave up a ton of easy baskets to Bogut throughout the game.
Steph and Klay aren't going to consistently miss as many wide open looks they did this game, that b2b dagger in the 4th is a better indication of how quickly they can flip a score on you.
I'm assuming/hoping that Curry will show up with his head out of his ass for gm 2 and actually take things seriously instead of trying to showboat on Love, which got him uncharacteristically stripped like 3x in the first half.
I've never stated this. I don't do this tit for tat armchair analysis shit you guys try to do so maybe you're confused.
Anyway Cavs have played alot better offense on defenses better than Golden States. Their usuals like Smith and Frye barely even took shots last game.
Cavs retook the lead in the second half as well. GS can run up leads. Nobody disputed that. But they are having to in unorthodox ways. Their bench scored 49 of their points. And even if you include the starters, they got points mostly from their 3rd option and down. I don't know if thats the recipe for success.
Curry looked frustrated above anything. He's having an incredidbly hard time shaking free of lebron who is throwing his weight on him. The way people excuse his bad games are amazing, I'm glad JVG called that shit out.
So if Klay and Curry suck and Cavs get suddenly a lot better Cavs win? That logic can apply to any basketball game.
It is completely unreasonable to assume the two best shooters in the league stay cold an entire series while the opposition suddenly play far better than they have all year.
Cavs NEEDED to win that game. They need to win at least one game in Oakland and they blew a game where both Cury and Klay were cold. That is not likely to happen avian.
Did people just forget last year? It happened most of the series last year as well. Klay in particular was terrible.
Cavs don't have to be alot better. Until that one run they were close and trading leads. You only need to win one road game in a playoff series. Just like last year when dropped the first game and took the second, they're fine. Quit overreacting.
They've played better defenses in the playoffs? You must be talking about the Hawks I'm guessing? The playoffs are about matchups and everyone knows this. OKC took it to GS because they could switch every position with long athletic players.
The Cavs destroyed Kyle Korver that entire series. Switched into him and beat him off the dribble to the rim or kicked out to the open shooter. With Barnes, Green, Iggy, Klay all being very good to great defenders, that makes it a lot harder to utilize that same strategy. Maybe the Cavs have played a better defense in the playoffs. But they haven't played one that can defend the way GS does.
Also, their biggest issue isn't offense. It's defense. They've given up 105ppg in these playoffs (GS came up 1 point shy of that without Curry and Klay showing up). That is bad. Really bad.
Side note, I'm not one that assumes this series is over. Long way to go. I do believe Cleveland has a lot of ground to cover defensively though. They need adjustments big time going forward.
Curry is a better player this year than last. He isn't going to stay cold. Not to mention he really was only cold game 1-3 last year. After that he was himself.
Cavs lost 4-2 last year. Warriors are inarguabley better this year than last. And Cavs are clearly a weaker matchup with this lineup vs last year. It's not even a fair fight.
FeenixRising
Banned
Which is quite fuckin stupid.
"Oh, their lockout season title doesn't count!!"
Like 16 fuckin games would've prevented Miami from stomping out the Thunder that year (barring injuries of course). Like LeBron didn't put on the performance of his life in Game 6 of the ECF that year. I guess one of the Spurs championships don't count either.
"Ray Allen saved him!!!"
Like he's the only role player in history that saved a teams championship hopes. I hate Robert Horry to this day xD
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