ethomaz
Banned
Again they didn't show the I/O controller in the teardown.
It should be hard to show a part of the APU btw.
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It should be hard to show a part of the APU btw.
kyliethicc
Member
No the I/O unit is literally a part of the APU. Thats not the SSD's flash controller. They're different.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
A mix of the extra I/O, infinity cache? and future AMD GPU features?
Zathalus
Member
PS4 Pro Boost mode is just running the GPU at 911Mhz instead of 800Mhz and does not enable the use of the full GPU. As for the PS5 BC, they even have a patent describing how it works:
Yet another Sony patent seems to promise PS5 backwards compatibility
PS4 lead architect Mark Cerny strikes again
That combined with the information from the Mark Cerny presentation makes it pretty clear how Sony is handling backwards compatibility.
Nowcry
Member
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jimbojim
Banned
Main custom chip = APU. Yeah, it's part of the APU. Custom flash controller is other thing
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Tripolygon
Banned
That's the custom SSD controller. Different from the IO complex inside the SoC.
chilichote
Member
Okay, then it's my fault, because the I/O-Complex aka SSD-Controller is to see at 5:35 in the Teardown-Video.
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Yeah, series s isn't being used as remote xcloud server blades. I do wonder if series s plays into the whole distributed xcloud server play that Phil Spencer said in a e3 after hours event.
SportsFan581
Member
qiqiqiiq
Member
That cooling system looks pretty solid, and it was a nice touch to add a dust trap, my main worry is the fact that the main SSD is attached to the motherboard, if it stops working does that mean the PS5 is dead? or will a 3rd party one connected to the expansion bay be a replacement? I guess time will tell.
I hope the PS5 stays cool and quiet because the first PS4 PRO I owned sounded like it was crying for help when I played God of War, the last PRO I had was a 7215b model so it was really quiet in comparison, but I want my PS5 to be as quiet as possible when I eventually get one.
Also I read that this thread was going to be closed after the teardown, If that's the case then it was a fun ride (even thought I got to read very ridiculous claims from all 3 camps), I even got to be on a hype train so see you guys on the PS5 thread and some PC parts threads, doubt I will be in a lot of XBOX threads because I won't buy one unless I see a ridiculously good offer and have money to spare.
I hope the PS5 stays cool and quiet because the first PS4 PRO I owned sounded like it was crying for help when I played God of War, the last PRO I had was a 7215b model so it was really quiet in comparison, but I want my PS5 to be as quiet as possible when I eventually get one.
Also I read that this thread was going to be closed after the teardown, If that's the case then it was a fun ride (even thought I got to read very ridiculous claims from all 3 camps), I even got to be on a hype train so see you guys on the PS5 thread and some PC parts threads, doubt I will be in a lot of XBOX threads because I won't buy one unless I see a ridiculously good offer and have money to spare.
kyliethicc
Member
Yeah in Cenry's talk, the I/O unit he shows is all part of the main die. The SoC. The flash controller is separate, and we do see that in the teardown. He does point that out. They're different things.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I know how virtualization works.
They also can get bang for the bucks they already spent outfitting their data centers with Xbox One S blades. Just depends on what is more important to them; the space they need or the money they want to spend upgrading hardware. Throwing out old Xbox One S blades any time soon would be a huge waste considering xCloud is in it's infancy.
You might be right; maybe the next step is adding XSX for new blades and using them as 4 Xbox One's.. rather than expanding the XOS footprint.. I still think XSS partly exists for xCloud reasons.
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ethomaz
Banned
I/O controller has nothing to do with SSD-Controller.
They are completely different units in PC.
I/O controller is not specific for SSD you know... it is for all type of I/O tasks including memory, USB, PS5 controller, etc.
SDD controller is specific to the SSD... all SSDs needs a SSD controller.... the SSD controller talks directly with the I/O controller because the SSD is a Input/Output device by itself.
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chilichote
Member
And now you're going to tell me that the flash memory controller is almost as big as the PS5 APU? Look at the Teardown, this is not a simple hard drive controller ...APU IO Complex != Flash memory controller.
kyliethicc
Member
Yup. Same as if the SoC or RAM dies. RIP. Or try to repair it yourself somehow.
Tripolygon
Banned
But Sony is struggling and don't know how to do marketing. Lmao
THE:MILKMAN
Member
That is just the package, the flash controller die is the tiny part on top!
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SportsFan581
Member
Reasonable to assume they didn't want to spend dollars putting more One S blades into service, the XSX blades will have a longer functional life while still probably cheaper than the One S blades.
SportsFan581
Member
We looking at the same thing? Flash controller looks tiny.
LucidFlux
Member
You said it yourself, it was for an I/O that can deliver incredible performance.
Sony (Cerny) took a much more forward thinking approach with the design of the PS5.
Sure they could have went more standard with the SSD and stuck with the standard I/O which would have given them budget and room on the APU to just fit more CUs in the console. But here's the thing. GPUs are going to keep getting more powerful every year, and every generation.
By placing emphasis on a new I/O design paradigm, this becomes the baseline in every Playstation moving forward.
So by making the decisions they did, they ended up with a machine that should perform roughly the same with regards to rasterization but allowed them to make an insane leap with regards to I/O.
onesvenus
Member
The I/O controller?
saintjules
Gold Member
!
V.2
Hah, playing XDJ controller backards. 4 channel ones get expensive.
jimbojim
Banned
So, some people( guess which ones ) still have big problems :
www.resetera.com
PS5 SoC is ~25% smaller than the Series X
I mean, some may feel it's not that big of a difference when it's currently ~18% difference in GPU performance between the PS5 and Series X doesn't mean others can post false information to make that gap seem wider than it really is.
www.resetera.com
Bo_Hazem
Banned
chilichote
Member
The chip/ASIC is part of the I/O...
kyliethicc
Member
To compare, this is the flash controller for the Samsung 980 Pro M2 SSD. It is its own custom design. Sony's PS5 flash controller seems to be smaller, but sitting on a larger square of circuitry or something. Maybe thats for heat. Both controllers look to have DRAM cache chips next to them, along with the 3D TLC NAND flash dies.
saintjules
Gold Member
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Great Hair
Banned
ethomaz
Banned
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kyliethicc
Member
We might never know really. You could be right, I'm sure they could use the S chip somehow too.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol I love how awkward it got in that Digital Foundry stream when John said he heard great things about the PS5 from developers. No comment from Alex, Richard, Tom and the other guy. None whatsoever. Not even a "Interesting!", "surprising"... they didnt even bother to try and get more good info from John.
Surely if you are doing a subscriber special, you would want to get some more NDA info for your subscribers. It almost looks like they are not happy that the devs are happy with the PS5. So awkward.
Surely if you are doing a subscriber special, you would want to get some more NDA info for your subscribers. It almost looks like they are not happy that the devs are happy with the PS5. So awkward.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Why do you look for things to be upset about?So, some people( guess which ones ) still have big problems :
PS5 SoC is ~25% smaller than the Series X
I mean, some may feel it's not that big of a difference when it's currently ~18% difference in GPU performance between the PS5 and Series X doesn't mean others can post false information to make that gap seem wider than it really is.
It's some random nerd on an awful forum.
Dolomite
Member
Which?
SportsFan581
Member
To compare, this is the flash controller for the Samsung 980 Pro M2 SSD. It is its own custom design. Sony's PS5 flash controller seems to be smaller, but sitting on a larger square of circuitry or something. Maybe thats for heat. Both controllers look to have DRAM cache chips next to them, along with the 3D TLC NAND flash dies.
The Samsung has a lid, so we don't know how big it is under there. I assume it's small, might not be the latest and greatest node size either.
Crazychipmunx
Member
DF Livestream, will try to find a timestamp
980 pro which yet hasn't been confirmed as compatible
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
The diagram literally shows a separate controller outside of the APU, and the "i/o complex", inside the APU.
How is it irrelevant? lol
Silly?
Cerny said that himself.
"The benefits of this strategy are quite large.
Running a GPU at 2 GHz was looking like an unreachable target with the old fixed frequency strategy.
With this new paradigm we're able to run way over that in fact we have to cap the GPU frequency at 2.23 GHz so that we can guarantee that the on chip logic operates properly."
Transcribe - The Road to PS5 - Mark Cerny's a deep dive into the PlayStation 5 - - The Road to Next Gen Ludens
Thank you Jim. There will be lots of chances later on this year to look at the PlayStation 5 games.Today I want to talk a bit about our goals for the PlayStation 5 hardware and how they influenced the development of the console.playstationvr.hateblo.jp
You know - just because Cerny said it doesn't mean its true - or its a half true/lie - perhaps they ran in to combability issues with BC games.
In a couple of weeks we will probably see 2,5Ghz 80 CUs RDNA2 gpus working fine.
Nowcry
Member
On many occasions the Controller is not made in 7nm from TSMC to save costs. I think I remember they do it in 14nm or even 24nm.To compare, this is the flash controller for the Samsung 980 Pro M2 SSD. It is its own custom design. Sony's PS5 flash controller seems to be smaller, but sitting on a larger square of circuitry or something. Maybe thats for heat. Both controllers look to have DRAM cache chips next to them, along with the 3D TLC NAND flash dies.
The size does not mean anything unless you know that the screen printing is the same.
Possibly it is developed in 7nm to avoid excessive heating due to the intense use that will be given when UE5 is on the market.
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CrysisFreak
Banned
Yeah I saw that thread already. Mentally ill.So, some people( guess which ones ) still have big problems :
PS5 SoC is ~25% smaller than the Series X
I mean, some may feel it's not that big of a difference when it's currently ~18% difference in GPU performance between the PS5 and Series X doesn't mean others can post false information to make that gap seem wider than it really is.
Funny how the reecucks don't have the balls to tell him to stfu with his lies.
just lol.
TrippleA345
Member
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I/O complex. Which we know includes the Kraken decompression, Coherency engines, SRAM, 2 coprocessors and DMA. I think this lot will use more mm^2 than what the XSX APU does but possibly not as much as 22mm^2 more. So what else could be using the space? We know there is a rumour of infinity cache that would use a chunk of mm^2.
Or maybe the calculation of 286mm^2 is off and the die is somewhat bigger? Say 310-320mm^2?
TwistedSyn
Member
RedGamingTech goes more in-depth with the break down of PS5.
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Crazychipmunx
Member
Nope
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