• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.

ethomaz

Banned
I get it. The Xbox as a brand isn't as popular here.
Where is it? Discord Xbox channel?

Anyway you need to realize BC is not a thing outside the forums like GAF.
It is basically useless to have boosted fps for actual gamers... it won’t increase Xbox popularity in any point.

The biggest think it always cross my mind is that MS is not in touch with gamers habits or what gamers wants... instead they want to force what they think is good or maybe they are listening too much the Xbox fanboys crowd in Twitter.
 
Last edited:

Vagos48

Member
The problem with XSS is that it was conceived with sole purpose to undercut the PlayStation and to fulfill a corporate strategy. They gaming community, gamers and developers , were not a priority. Last time sony did that was with the PS3 and they nearly blew it. But hard lessons learned and 2 generations after , they still dominate. MS on the other hand is such a financial giant that any mishap will not necessarily mean that they will change they way they are running the gaming division. They will continue to try to buy the market share instead of earning it.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The problem with XSS is that it was conceived with sole purpose to undercut the PlayStation and to fulfill a corporate strategy. They gaming community, gamers and developers , were not a priority. Last time sony did that was with the PS3 and they nearly blew it. But hard lessons learned and 2 generations after , they still dominate. MS on the other hand is such a financial giant that any mishap will not necessarily mean that they will change they way they are running the gaming division. They will continue to try to buy the market share instead of earning it.
As much as I love the PS3 and what Sony devs were able to do with the cell, I'd have to agree. Great post. I thought inflating the cost of each PS3 with a very expensive Bluray drive just to win HD format wars was bad enough, but then I remembered how the Cell was conceived mainly as a processor that wouldve been used in everything from washer and dryers to microwaves and cellphones. Then their was the split ram which completely fucked up all multiplatform ports for the entire gen. I cant believe MS didn't look at that disastrous RAM implementation and think maybe we ought to not cheap out here.

I am almost glad it blew up in their face because Sony lost all multiplatform exclusives like FF and GTA. That forced them to invest in first party which is a big reason why they are so successful today. The good thing about MS is that despite their willingness to buy the market share, they are investing in first party which is great news for gamers everywhere. Yes, not having Bethesda titles on PS will be a bummer, but there is a very good chance MS doesnt rush them out all buggy like Zenimax used to. I know Crackdown was buggy, but MS gave it a good 6 years after its reveal. Not many third party publishers wouldve done that.

I dont know. I am hopeful.
 

KingT731

Member
As much as I love the PS3 and what Sony devs were able to do with the cell, I'd have to agree. Great post. I thought inflating the cost of each PS3 with a very expensive Bluray drive just to win HD format wars was bad enough, but then I remembered how the Cell was conceived mainly as a processor that wouldve been used in everything from washer and dryers to microwaves and cellphones. Then their was the split ram which completely fucked up all multiplatform ports for the entire gen. I cant believe MS didn't look at that disastrous RAM implementation and think maybe we ought to not cheap out here.

I am almost glad it blew up in their face because Sony lost all multiplatform exclusives like FF and GTA. That forced them to invest in first party which is a big reason why they are so successful today. The good thing about MS is that despite their willingness to buy the market share, they are investing in first party which is great news for gamers everywhere. Yes, not having Bethesda titles on PS will be a bummer, but there is a very good chance MS doesnt rush them out all buggy like Zenimax used to. I know Crackdown was buggy, but MS gave it a good 6 years after its reveal. Not many third party publishers wouldve done that.

I dont know. I am hopeful.
That last part of the second paragraph...I wouldn't paint incompetence as a good thing.
 

kyliethicc

Member
As much as I love the PS3 and what Sony devs were able to do with the cell, I'd have to agree. Great post. I thought inflating the cost of each PS3 with a very expensive Bluray drive just to win HD format wars was bad enough, but then I remembered how the Cell was conceived mainly as a processor that wouldve been used in everything from washer and dryers to microwaves and cellphones. Then their was the split ram which completely fucked up all multiplatform ports for the entire gen. I cant believe MS didn't look at that disastrous RAM implementation and think maybe we ought to not cheap out here.

I am almost glad it blew up in their face because Sony lost all multiplatform exclusives like FF and GTA. That forced them to invest in first party which is a big reason why they are so successful today. The good thing about MS is that despite their willingness to buy the market share, they are investing in first party which is great news for gamers everywhere. Yes, not having Bethesda titles on PS will be a bummer, but there is a very good chance MS doesnt rush them out all buggy like Zenimax used to. I know Crackdown was buggy, but MS gave it a good 6 years after its reveal. Not many third party publishers wouldve done that.

I dont know. I am hopeful.
Microsoft have done wonders with Rare since that acquisition. Bungie ran away. Excellent management of creatives.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
As much as I love the PS3 and what Sony devs were able to do with the cell, I'd have to agree. Great post. I thought inflating the cost of each PS3 with a very expensive Bluray drive just to win HD format wars was bad enough, but then I remembered how the Cell was conceived mainly as a processor that wouldve been used in everything from washer and dryers to microwaves and cellphones. Then their was the split ram which completely fucked up all multiplatform ports for the entire gen. I cant believe MS didn't look at that disastrous RAM implementation and think maybe we ought to not cheap out here.

I am almost glad it blew up in their face because Sony lost all multiplatform exclusives like FF and GTA. That forced them to invest in first party which is a big reason why they are so successful today. The good thing about MS is that despite their willingness to buy the market share, they are investing in first party which is great news for gamers everywhere. Yes, not having Bethesda titles on PS will be a bummer, but there is a very good chance MS doesnt rush them out all buggy like Zenimax used to. I know Crackdown was buggy, but MS gave it a good 6 years after its reveal. Not many third party publishers wouldve done that.

I dont know. I am hopeful.
Given the RAM setup in the XsS - and hack job(IMHO) ram setup in the XsX - is it possible that Xbox thought PS5 would stick with 8GB of ram because of the prices of GDDR6/GDDR6X and Spiderman SSD showcase - maybe no devkits with 32GB of ram - and originally intended to compete with 10GB of GDDR6 and 5 channels against a suspected 8GBs of GDDR6X and 4 channels on PS5?

If so, that would certainly explain a lot about the XsX final ram design setup, when unified ram was probably the top spec that developers wanted to keep from X1/X1X.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Like demon’s Souls loading Times?

fed296bb4d4f8993adb1d0b2c2b40dec.gif
 

Razvedka

Banned
This is another comparison of the Switch and XSS. I suppose because they are both $299 they must have the same performance. I also think its pretty funny that people can tell MS they need to take a bigger loss on their console when they are already taking a loss on the hardware of the XSS and XSX now. Businesses care about making money and the XSS is part of a long term plan to get more people into the Xbox ecosystem. It is just fine the way it is. It is pretty clear the XSS was not designed to be a high end graphical device. Yet the biggest knock against it is that is doesn't have high end graphics, it's pretty funny. Also if you are going to knock the XSS why not post some actual footage of the system working as supposed to posting screen shots of the Switch?!



Many people scream from the top of the mountains TF don't matter right? The XSX has more TF than the PS5? Who cares! Yet the XSS having 4 TF is a major problem and puts on the Switch level. Interesting. This also ignores the point that was made that a GCN TF is different from an RDNA 2 TF. Also how many TF does the Switch have anyway? Can it do raytracing? Can ANYONE point out a console that is more powerful and the same price or less than the XSS? I just need one example please.

When the best you can do is post old tweets from devs complaining about an outdated dev kit from before the system coming out you know people are just searching for a reason to hate. Posts from devs NOT complaining get ignored? Of course!

XSS got a bunch of FPS boosted titles along with the XSX. XSS has the same quick resume features the XSX has. It supported cold storage at launch when other more expensive consoles just got the feature and it has a memory expansion option other more expensive consoles STILL lack. It is supposedly an amazing emulation box. It is $200 less than the XSX and the conclusion? It is not a consumer friendly device. This is bad comedy. Again people who actually use the device speak very differently than people here who have lots to SAY about the XSS but clearly don't know what they are talking about. Here is just ONE such video.


I get it. The Xbox as a brand isn't as popular here. Some of you guys have a passionate hatred of MS. Some of you are scared they are going to push Sony out of the console space. Don't be afraid guys. The Xbox can't hurt you or your favorite hobby. Sony is doing just fine and if the Xbox is the big joke many of you think they are, they can be ignored just like people ignore the Amazon Luna. Maybe one day it will just fade away especially since the XSS is just a Switch in white box right? Poorly executed indeed.

Eh. I think you're doing a disservice to the technically considered criticisms that the XSS is facing from some (not all) people. I think those criticisms and concerns are justified and it has nothing to do with brand loyalty.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Given the RAM setup in the XsS - and hack job(IMHO) ram setup in the XsX - is it possible that Xbox thought PS5 would stick with 8GB of ram because of the prices of GDDR6/GDDR6X and Spiderman SSD showcase - maybe no devkits with 32GB of ram - and originally intended to compete with 10GB of GDDR6 and 5 channels against a suspected 8GBs of GDDR6X and 4 channels on PS5?

If so, that would certainly explain a lot about the XsX final ram design setup, when unified ram was probably the top spec that developers wanted to keep from X1/X1X.
Nah the XSX RAM is a compromise for its use in servers. It will be config'd with up to 20 GB RAM for xCloud. Hence the 320 bit bus. And maybe they thought 448 GB/s wouldn't be enough for their GPU in console. And they didn' want to use costlier faster 16 Gb/s GDDR6. And they clearly didn't wanna spend even more and put 20 GB in every XBSX to unify the bw.

And the XSS went with a super small SoC, so only 128 bit bus was to keep die small. Should've just gone 256b and 16 GB for that one, but they cheaped out.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
Sweet! I'm still surprised that I managed to finish the game in less than 12 hours since its release time. After 2 premature death in the 1st biome, the 3rd run was a marathonic run from 1st to end within less than 8 hours, sitting roughly as the 41st (was 40th for some reason) to finish the game according to this website with many others finished it more than a week before launch due to review copies and leaked physical copies that tend to be found around 1-2 weeks before official release.

bo-returnal.png



It's one of the fastest games I've ever beaten, and I'm always taking so much time exploring and taking full joy of the games I play with no trophy hunting in mind. Although I'm happy with the game, that's one reason why it's 8.5/10 to me instead of 9.5/10 as I thoroughly checked every optional door available (except golden gates/horde mode) so that's pretty short to my liking and roguelike isn't enough excuse to me. And keeping me awake for ~30 hours to beat the game wasn't fun.:lollipop_anguish:

For perspective:

AC Valhalla: 162 hours.
Death Stranding: 114 hours (still like 95% finished all missions and some few left).
MGS5: 250+ hours.
The Wither 3 + DLC's: ~250 hours.
AC Odyssey + DLC's: ~250 hours.

Even games like TLOU2 I would spend a lot of hours near the 100 hours mark as exploring every cabinet, door, shop, closet is something I enjoy in games. After finishing the game I never touch it again which leads to deleting it.

Still not feeling the roguelike genre, and will only play exceptions like Returnal that offer more than generic, regressive gameplay design that is stuck in the early 1990's.

Hey Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem ,

What game is "The Wither 3?" I've missed that one! LOL

Is it like with Oz- 'We're off to see the Wither!"
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That last part of the second paragraph...I wouldn't paint incompetence as a good thing.
At some point, you have to let go. Crackdown wasnt completely broken like Cyberpunk and the fact that MS showed it off at launch and still waited till 2019 to release it shows they didnt want to release a broken game.

I mean look at Halo. They delayed it by a year. How many third party publishers would delay a big game like Battlefield or CoD. How many of them wouldve done that if they were launching a console and banking on that game to sell consoles at launch?
Given the RAM setup in the XsS - and hack job(IMHO) ram setup in the XsX - is it possible that Xbox thought PS5 would stick with 8GB of ram because of the prices of GDDR6/GDDR6X and Spiderman SSD showcase - maybe no devkits with 32GB of ram - and originally intended to compete with 10GB of GDDR6 and 5 channels against a suspected 8GBs of GDDR6X and 4 channels on PS5?

If so, that would certainly explain a lot about the XsX final ram design setup, when unified ram was probably the top spec that developers wanted to keep from X1/X1X.
After speaking to Penello, it was obvious that the console was designed by marketing and PR guys than engineers. They thought Sony was targeting $399. I dont think they cared about anything other than beating Sony on tflops and also beating them on price. The XSX ram setup is purely a cost decision imo. Or maybe even thermals, but that was also due to the fact that they were pushing 12 tflops first and foremost.

I dont know. When your entire console strategy is designed around the 'sandwich strategy', it will come at the expense of something. In this case, it was the VRAM setup and potentially some bottlenecks in the GPU which seems to be struggling to feed the CUs. I dont have any idea why DF isnt comparing the XSX and PS5 to the 6700xt. They should be able to easily test out a 10 tflops and a 12 tflops version of the GPU by limiting clocks, and see how the games stack up against the XSX and PS5 versions. It's only 40 CUs so we should be able to see how it compares against a 52 CU RDNA 2.0 GPU with lower clocks.

Now Sony was also targeting the $399 price tag, but they clearly went over and didnt downgrade any specs or compromise. The SSD is still lightning fast, and the VRAM is still unified. MS left themselves no choice with that sandwich strategy imo.
 

Dodkrake

Banned
Many people scream from the top of the mountains TF don't matter right? The XSX has more TF than the PS5? Who cares! Yet the XSS having 4 TF is a major problem and puts on the Switch level. Interesting. This also ignores the point that was made that a GCN TF is different from an RDNA 2 TF. Also how many TF does the Switch have anyway? Can it do raytracing? Can ANYONE point out a console that is more powerful and the same price or less than the XSS? I just need one example please.

Any console can do ray tracing, the problem is having the budget to do so.



I can also point out that for 1/4 more I can buy a console that has 2.5x as many TF, which by your own argument, must make the price point for the Series S armed robbery
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
You overestimated my English vocabulary, which is a good compliment even if the joke flew over my head because I thought it was a typo. :messenger_winking_tongue:
Ah, ok, I see. Yep, just hassling you about the typo you made. I thought it sounded funny as hell, but then, I'm pretty easily amused.
 

KingT731

Member
At some point, you have to let go. Crackdown wasnt completely broken like Cyberpunk and the fact that MS showed it off at launch and still waited till 2019 to release it shows they didnt want to release a broken game.

I mean look at Halo. They delayed it by a year. How many third party publishers would delay a big game like Battlefield or CoD. How many of them wouldve done that if they were launching a console and banking on that game to sell consoles at launch?

After speaking to Penello, it was obvious that the console was designed by marketing and PR guys than engineers. They thought Sony was targeting $399. I dont think they cared about anything other than beating Sony on tflops and also beating them on price. The XSX ram setup is purely a cost decision imo. Or maybe even thermals, but that was also due to the fact that they were pushing 12 tflops first and foremost.

I dont know. When your entire console strategy is designed around the 'sandwich strategy', it will come at the expense of something. In this case, it was the VRAM setup and potentially some bottlenecks in the GPU which seems to be struggling to feed the CUs. I dont have any idea why DF isnt comparing the XSX and PS5 to the 6700xt. They should be able to easily test out a 10 tflops and a 12 tflops version of the GPU by limiting clocks, and see how the games stack up against the XSX and PS5 versions. It's only 40 CUs so we should be able to see how it compares against a 52 CU RDNA 2.0 GPU with lower clocks.

Now Sony was also targeting the $399 price tag, but they clearly went over and didnt downgrade any specs or compromise. The SSD is still lightning fast, and the VRAM is still unified. MS left themselves no choice with that sandwich strategy imo.
Let go of what? I was just pointing out that baking a bad game for 6 years isn't smart business. They had like 5 different teams working on that game over the course of development. Halo was delayed out of necessity. They were PERFECTLY ok with launching it the way it was....until it literally became a meme.

Edit:
Evidence of that claim is with their product deals rolled out because you can't delay perishable items(Halo Monster Energy Drinks).
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Let go of what? I was just pointing out that baking a bad game for 6 years isn't smart business. They had like 5 different teams working on that game over the course of development. Halo was delayed out of necessity. They were PERFECTLY ok with launching it the way it was....until it literally became a meme.
They were high on their own supply, infinite power of the cloud, and in the end none of it panned out. There were plenty of us who knew this would happen from day zero.
 
Last edited:

Sinthor

Gold Member
Ok, so that I don't contribute to just a non-speculation thread on this thread...here's a question. We seriously have no solid information or indications of the OS RAM usage on PS5?

I'm very curious to see analysis of how Insomniac handles things with the new Rachel & Clark game (That one's for you, Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem :messenger_winking_tongue: ) and how they exploit or if they DO utilize the "Geometry Engine" for their results. I haven't seen a whole lot still on what exactly the Geometry Engine is and does. Hoping we'll start to get more light shed on all that this summer.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Ok, so that I don't contribute to just a non-speculation thread on this thread...here's a question. We seriously have no solid information or indications of the OS RAM usage on PS5?

I'm very curious to see analysis of how Insomniac handles things with the new Rachel & Clark game (That one's for you, Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem :messenger_winking_tongue: ) and how they exploit or if they DO utilize the "Geometry Engine" for their results. I haven't seen a whole lot still on what exactly the Geometry Engine is and does. Hoping we'll start to get more light shed on all that this summer.
If not, you will at next year's GDC, almost positive about that just like they did just after Spider-Man.
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Let go of what? I was just pointing out that baking a bad game for 6 years isn't smart business. They had like 5 different teams working on that game over the course of development. Halo was delayed out of necessity. They were PERFECTLY ok with launching it the way it was....until it literally became a meme. Evidence of that claim is with their product deals rolled out because you can't delay perishable items(Halo Monster Energy Drinks).
Sorry, I mean the publisher has to let it go and write it off as a loss. Not asking you to let go as in to get over it.

There is no salvaging that game after 8 years of dev time. They probably shouldve cancelled it.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Ok, so that I don't contribute to just a non-speculation thread on this thread...here's a question. We seriously have no solid information or indications of the OS RAM usage on PS5?
It could be anywhere from 2 to 4 GB for the OS, who knows.

PS5 OS UI is 4K HDR so that probably takes up a bit more space in RAM, if Xbox OS is 2K SDR and still uses 2.5 GB RAM.

Devs likely have between 12 and 14 GB of RAM for their PS5 games. I'd assume 13 GB.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Instant fake-loading Times.




In game loadings



Just wait and see for Ratchet.

And when you speak about games be sure to play them for real.

Chappelle Show Lol GIF


You do realize the trailer location does do that in game in that exact same spot. It's a prologue sequence. Also, what version was that video? My buddy's up to date version was a bit faster going from world to world, barely seen the grey fog sequence as long as that one.

I will wait for Ratchet. Since Spider-Man was lickity split, no load times in the hideouts like last gen had.
 

Faithless83

Banned
Instant fake-loading Times.




In game loadings



Just wait and see for Ratchet.

And when you speak about games be sure to play them for real.

Yet somehow this video (timestamped) showed that the load is indeed around 2 seconds with the day one patch (if the publishing of the video is any indication).




So yeah, have you actually played the game instead of watching a video of what probably was an unpatched physical version, you wouldn't spewing nonsense.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Instant fake-loading Times.




In game loadings



Just wait and see for Ratchet.

And when you speak about games be sure to play them for real.

Why are you comparing two separate loading sections? Fast travel between worlds is different than fast traveling between the same world.

Faithless post above shows what the load times are for that particular bonfire and they are pretty much the same.

Do you really think insomniac has been editing these videos and the loading times for these jumps will be 2x as long in the release? this close to release?
 
Last edited:

Bergoglio

Member
Yet somehow this video (timestamped) showed that the load is indeed around 2 seconds with the day one patch (if the publishing of the video is any indication).




So yeah, have you actually played the game instead of watching a video of what probably was an unpatched physical version, you wouldn't spewing nonsense.

I played the game since day one and loading times are nowhere as you reported.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Why are you comparing two separate loading sections? Fast travel between worlds is different than fast traveling between the same world.

Faithless post above shows what the load times are for that particular bonfire and they are pretty much the same.

Do you really think insomniac has been editing these videos and the loading times for these jumps will be 2x as long in the release? this close to release?
Oh I can't not wait for R&C.
 

Bergoglio

Member
Why are you comparing two separate loading sections? Fast travel between worlds is different than fast traveling between the same world.

Faithless post above shows what the load times are for that particular bonfire and they are pretty much the same.

Do you really think insomniac has been editing these videos and the loading times for these jumps will be 2x as long in the release? this close to release?
Yes they did.

And be careful about Ratchet this june.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom