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Official Formula One 2010 Thread

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ElyrionX

Member
seattle6418 said:
Only in F1.

People here trying to downplay and say "hey, it happened before, they shouldn't complain", are just wrong...

It's not right, and i can't think of this been done in a series where the races are trully raced, like Nascar.

If you can't race your team mate, then there shouldn't be team mates at all and teams should run only one car in order to preserve the sport.

I guess people just got used to the BS F1 does all the time.

God, i'm so pissed because i keep watching this "sport" and it's one crap show after another. After Austria 2002, i thought this wouldn't happen again unless it was the WC.

Guess i was wrong.

That's bullshit.

The season is one giant race and who says Massa wasn't allowed to race Alonso? The season is more than halfway through and Massa has clearly been the slower driver all season and this is reflected in the WDC rankings. If Massa is ahead of Alonso in the WDC, do you think the team order would have even been given?
 

megateto

Member
Mohonky said:
Were you watching the same race? Where was Alonso faster than Massa? Massa was putting in faster times frequently. When Alonso kicked it up a gear, Massa just went faster again. At no point did Alonso ever look like he might pull Massa in, he was a good few seconds ahead.

Alonso can cry all he wants but Massa was pulling away and Alonso was falling back toward Vettel for the majority of the race and even when Alonso pulled a gap on Vettel, he wasn't doing shit in pulling back Massa.

After the "this is ridiculous" thing there was a 3 seconds gap which Fernando managed to decrease lap after lap. He was at 1 second from Felipe for some laps and then the team orders came in.
 

justjohn

Member
Lince said:
the British rage in this thread :lol

didn't recall any of this with the Macca "low fuel" incident when Jenson overtook Hamilton and he lifted after letting him back through, oh well, fuck F1, welcome MotoGP.
Spanish :lol
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Lince said:
what a ridiculous "sport" F1 is

"Fernando is faster than you" what the hell? and where was the ultra-hyped-I-can-win-from-last-place-as-the-wonderboy-I-am Hamilton today? this is a circus full of clowns the likes of Hamilton, Button, Massa, Alonso et al. willing to perform and pull any trick with a smile, I'm ditching F1 for MotoGP where the riders' skills actually matter.
Well off the pace. He passed Webber on the opening lap and finished further forward than he started. I dare you to point out anyone near him that did any overtaking today...besides Alonso. :lol PEACE.

EDIT: Hockenheim is retarde narrow in some places. I don't remember the old track being that tight to race on.
 

avaya

Member
The "we did it to protect position from Vettel" is a bullshit argument.

Felipe and Alonso were only separated by a tenth. Neither was significantly faster than the other. The F10 was the fastest car on the track. It was a battle between 2 people for the win.

The "Alonso was faster" angle doesn't work.
 
ElyrionX said:
That's bullshit.

The season is one giant race and who says Massa wasn't allowed to race Alonso? The season is more than halfway through and Massa has clearly been the slower driver all season and this is reflected in the WDC rankings. If Massa is ahead of Alonso in the WDC, do you think the team order would have even been given?

You're missing the point.

Massa has been crap this season, i recognize that even as a Brazilian.

The point is, i'm against fixing in motorsports, specialy when there's a rule stating you can't have team orders.

Something is seriously fucked up with people that think fixing results is normal. (i'm not saying you are one of those).
 

Dilly

Banned
Mclaren fans shouldn't forget what happened between Hamilton and Kovalainen in Hockenheim 2008, the only difference there was that it happened in a subtle way.

None the less, the way this was handled by Ferrari is just outrageous. Watching the press conference made me feel awkward.
 

kharma45

Member
Tiff Needell posted something on Twitter, and I do sort of half agree with him in a way and get where he's coming from

Think you lot should start accusing Vettel of 'fixing' the race because after he chose to block Alonso and not Massa the 'race' was over!
 

Deadman

Member
Its quite funny to watch the ferrari PR guy try and explain his way out of this one.

By explain i mean lie of course.


This result did win me some money, but id prefer to have lost.
 

caramac

Member
Lince said:
the British rage in this thread :lol

didn't recall any of this with the Macca "low fuel" incident when Jenson overtook Hamilton and he lifted after letting him back through, oh well, fuck F1, welcome MotoGP.

great decision right there.

MotoGP at Laguna Seca today.
 

Britprog

Member
Dilly said:
Mclaren fans shouldn't forget what happened between Hamilton and Kovalainen in Hockenheim 2008, the only difference there was that it happened in a subtle way.

None the less, the way this was handled by Ferrari is just outrageous. Watching the press conference made me feel awkward.

Mclaren fans should be happy, Lewis lead in WDC is bigger with this farce.

I expect Whitmarsh will come out and say he is happy with what happened, Horner has already said he is unhappy.
 
Hope Ferrari get fucked over this. Both drivers need to get disqualified for this race. It wasn't even covered a tiny bit. The throttle bar, the team radio, it's all there and it's so obvious that a freaking monkey could combine this stuff.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Dilly said:
Mclaren fans shouldn't forget what happened between Hamilton and Kovalainen in Hockenheim 2008, the only difference there was that it happened in a subtle way.

None the less, the way this was handled by Ferrari is just outrageous. Watching the press conference made me feel awkward.
This is nonsense. In Hockenheim, Piquet was 1st, and Kov was 2nd. Kov was second to a slower car and driver. Lewis overtook Kov. He wasn't given team orders, he caught his draft and overtook. The issue people had was that Kov didn't fight Lewis when he got alongside, but Lewis was leagues faster. He was so fast he close the gap to Piquet and passed him for the win. Kov never even got onto Piquet's gearbox. And this happened in like a handful of laps.

Lewis was a ton faster than both guys he passed. Did Renault also give Piquet team orders to let Lewis by? I thought this argument got nailed into the ground the same day it happened. If Kov got team orders, then explain why Lewis blew by a guy who was driving even faster than Kov. PEACE.

EDIT: Kov had a million conspiracy theories about the team, but the dude was just bad. That's why he's at Lotus now and not even a mid-tier team. The guy is a fucking scrub.
 

kikanny

Member
"Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy. More on autosport.com as it happens"

-NobleF1's Twitter

Yes. I hope there is some justice.
 

Britprog

Member
kikanny said:
"Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy. More on autosport.com as it happens"

-NobleF1's Twitter

Yes. I hope there is some justice.

Oh shit, Disqualified is my bet

Give them a 3 race ban to stick a knife in as well!!!
 

kikanny

Member
megateto said:
No, seems that Nando did it XD.

But yeah, horrible. Is the penalty for this only a million dollars? Really?
The only fair punishment would be to strip Alonso of the win and points, exclude Ferrari from the championship and give a hefty fine.
 

avaya

Member
megateto said:
No, seems that Nando did it XD.

But yeah, horrible. Is the penalty for this only a million dollars? Really?

No that was a fine when team orders weren't banned. They should never have been banned. But they are now. Now it will be a proper punishment.
 

Pterion

Member
kikanny said:
"Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy. More on autosport.com as it happens"

-NobleF1's Twitter

Yes. I hope there is some justice.
Todt won't let Ferrari be disqualified. A slap on the wrist is all that's going to happen.
 

Jinjo

Member
There is no other proper punishment than at the very least exclude Alonso from the race results. Whether that will happen has to be seen, but to me, that would be justice and actually give meaning to the rule.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
kikanny said:
The only fair punishment would be to strip Alonso of the win and points, exclude Ferrari from the championship and give a hefty fine.

Oh for fucks sake, they didn't do anything that strict when McClaren were off stealing Ferrari's schematics.
 

Dilly

Banned
Pimpwerx said:
This is nonsense. In Hockenheim, Piquet was 1st, and Kov was 2nd. Kov was second to a slower car and driver. Lewis overtook Kov. He wasn't given team orders, he caught his draft and overtook. The issue people had was that Kov didn't fight Lewis when he got alongside, but Lewis was leagues faster. He was so fast he close the gap to Piquet and passed him for the win. Kov never even got onto Piquet's gearbox. And this happened in like a handful of laps.

Lewis was a ton faster than both guys he passed. Did Renault also give Piquet team orders to let Lewis by? I thought this argument got nailed into the ground the same day it happened. If Kov got team orders, then explain why Lewis blew by a guy who was driving even faster than Kov. PEACE.

EDIT: Kov had a million conspiracy theories about the team, but the dude was just bad. That's why he's at Lotus now and not even a mid-tier team. The guy is a fucking scrub.

I'm not saying the situation was the same, but it felt unnecessary either way.
 

Lince

Banned
Pterion said:
Now now, let's not stoop to his level.

so what is my "level"? the double standards here are so blatant, Hamilton on Button -> oh so skilled, he's the master of comebacks, Alonso on Massa -> ban him and the entire team, anyway F1 and some fans (some of them right here) are a joke, don't worth my limited TV time. Let's watch some real racing instead.

and yeah Spanish and proud, any problem?
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Pterion said:
Yea, no WCC points and 100 million isn't rough at all.

Right, but they didn't strip anyone of any race results like is being called for here on top of that.

Do any of you really think team orders are anywhere near as bad as Stepney gate? Yet you are all running around calling for a similar or more severe punishment.
 

Pterion

Member
Lince said:
so what is my "level"? the double standards here are so blatant, Hamilton on Button -> oh so skilled, he's the master of comebacks, Alonso on Massa -> ban him and the entire team, anyway F1 and some fans (some of them right here) are a joke, don't worth my limited TV time. Let's watch some real racing instead.

and yeah Spanish and proud, any problem?
Oh man...
 

Leonsito

Member
I'm Spanish.
I'm a Ferrari fan.
I think that team orders should be allowed, however they aren't, so the move was illegal and exclusion from the race should be the right penalty imo.

What a stupid thing to do, at least fake it better ffs.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Autosport reporting that Ferrari has been summoned by the stewards. If it's a steward's decision, the driver will probably veto any penalty. PEACE.

EDIT: I'm so late, this shit was already etched in stone. :lol
 

avaya

Member
StoOgE said:
Oh for fucks sake, they didn't do anything that strict when McClaren were off stealing Ferrari's schematics.

err McLaren were excluded from the 2007 constructors championship and fined $100mn and were very lucky not to have received the rightful 2 year ban from the sport.
 

Dilly

Banned
Lince said:
so what is my "level"? the double standards here are so blatant, Hamilton on Button -> oh so skilled, he's the master of comebacks, Alonso on Massa -> ban him and the entire team, anyway F1 and some fans (some of them right here) are a joke, don't worth my limited TV time. Let's watch some real racing instead.

and yeah Spanish and proud, any problem?

Oh for goodness sake, stop minimizing everything that relate to Ferrari and Alonso just because your Spanish.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
avaya said:
err McLaren were excluded from the 2007 constructors championship and fined $100mn and were very lucky not to have received the rightful 2 year ban from the sport.

read my post.. these fools are asking for Alonso to be stripped of the race + everything that happened in Stepneygate for an in-race offense that is trivial compared to what McClaren pulled that year.

My point it a punishment even approaching what McClaren got there is completely stupid. at most there should be a punishment for todays results and that's it. Honestly a few grid position punishment seems in order given that every team out there is still using team orders. Ferrari aren't being punished for breaking the rule, they are being punished for being stupid about it.
 

Lince

Banned
Jinjo said:
There is no other proper punishment than at the very least exclude Alonso from the race results. Whether that will happen has to be seen, but to me, that would be justice and actually give meaning to the rule.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

so what was Alonso supposed to do when Massa lifted? was it his fault too?
Spain winning the Tour de France today btw. Now that's a sport.
 

S. L.

Member
Lince said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

so what was Alonso supposed to do when Massa lifted? was it his fault too?
Spain winning the Tour de France today btw. Now that's a sport.
Tour the France is the pinnacle of cheating/doping
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Lince said:
so what is my "level"? the double standards here are so blatant, Hamilton on Button -> oh so skilled, he's the master of comebacks, Alonso on Massa -> ban him and the entire team, anyway F1 and some fans (some of them right here) are a joke, don't worth my limited TV time. Let's watch some real racing instead.

and yeah Spanish and proud, any problem?
You think McLaren would give the defending WDC a team order? Especially when he's right in the hunt for the championship? McLaren isn't that bad right now, and the championship isn't close enough to worry yet. They haven't done that sort of thing since DC and Mika. I don't think they ever had orders for Kimi. PEACE.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Pimpwerx said:
You think McLaren would give the defending WDC a team order? Especially when he's right in the hunt for the championship? McLaren isn't that bad right now, and the championship isn't close enough to worry yet. They haven't done that sort of thing since DC and Mika. I don't think they ever had orders for Kimi. PEACE.

to be fair, Piano's fell out of the sky onto Kimi's car before they could give team orders Poor guy had no luck at all under McClaren.
 

avaya

Member
StoOgE said:
read my post.. these fools are asking for Alonso to be stripped of the race + everything that happened in Stepneygate for an in-race offense that is trivial compared to what McClaren pulled that year.

My point it a punishment even approaching what McClaren got there is completely stupid. at most there should be a punishment for todays results and that's it.

Who is asking for that? Ferrari's breach here does bring the sport into disrepute which does involve a heavy punishment possibly WCC exclusion. Of course I believe McLaren are the biggest hypocrites in the sport and should have been banned for 2008 and 2009 - as was the original verdict delivered by the WMC before Poison Dwarf intervened on commercial grounds.

The proper penalty would be for Ferrari to be DSQ'ed from this result. Which would be perfectly fair.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
avaya said:
Who is asking for that? Ferrari's breach here does bring the sport into disrepute which does involve a heavy punishment possibly WCC exclusion. Of course I believe McLaren are the biggest hypocrites in the sport and should have been banned for 2008 and 2009 - as was the original verdict delivered by the WMC before Poison Dwarf intervened on commercial grounds.

The proper penalty would be for Ferrari to be DSQ'ed from this result. Which would be perfectly fair.

kikanny for one was asking for it.

And I agree, yank the constructors points for this race and move on.
 

duckroll

Member
Here's the thing though. I think most people here are mad that Ferrari blatantly did this knowing it is an offense, and did it in a really blatant way which was obvious to anyone watching. That act brings disrepute to the sport, and makes it harder to take the FIA seriously as long as they let their own rules go unpunished.

But having said that, Ferrari's offense does not impact anyone else in this case. It's a really odd case where both their cars were in the lead, and they were controlling the race. The points are theirs for the taking, and they would have the same constructor's points regardless of what happened. What they did was simply redistribute their drivers' points the way they wanted, instead of letting the two drivers race it out themselves.

If the FIA does not punish this act, then they should remove the rule that sales team orders aren't allowed. I think in general the joke here is that the FIA has once again proven that they like to make shitty rules which no one cares for, but won't bother enforcing them. Or maybe Ferrari really runs the FIA. One way or another, the FIA are a joke, and Ferrari are taking advantage of that. It makes the race feel like a sham as a result which is really too bad. :(
 

Lince

Banned
S. L. said:
Tour the France is the pinnacle of cheating/doping

and? don't they get caught as Macca was caught with the Ferrari footprints? I mean the bikes are the same for everyone and therefore the riders are what make the difference, as in MotoGP.
 

avaya

Member
duckroll said:
But having said that, Ferrari's offense does not impact anyone else in this case. :(

Disagree with this, Alonso gets more points than he should have because the team broke a rule. This impacts the championship and by definition everyone else.
 

justjohn

Member
Lince said:
so what is my "level"? the double standards here are so blatant, Hamilton on Button -> oh so skilled, he's the master of comebacks, Alonso on Massa -> ban him and the entire team, anyway F1 and some fans (some of them right here) are a joke, don't worth my limited TV time. Let's watch some real racing instead.

and yeah Spanish and proud, any problem?
I'm laughing at your inferiority complex. You always seem to thnk it's the British fans here after alonso when most of them aren't even British.

And what's your problem with Hamilton? :lol
 
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