Which is why they used it in a trailer to make people think Ardyn is a bad guy.
The fact that he also appears to be torturing Noctis at the beginning of the trailer, but nobody cares, supports your point.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
On Final Fantasy XV and female characters
- Thread starter pashmilla
- Start date
The fact that he also appears to be torturing Noctis at the beginning of the trailer, but nobody cares, supports your point.
And why slap her? Why not just punch her dead in the face? It feels like women get reserved the slap in media, when guys will just get a punch. if he really is a bad guy, he's not going to resist bloodying her up. It makes no sense because she even got shot up in Kingsglaive.
While i like that they are much more tolerant of having women get bloodied and beaten these days as opposed to playing the dainty princess that will never have any harm come to them as long as the hero is around, you have to keep it consistent and balanced with their own agency and will to continue.
Adryn slaps her, but why not have her not even flinch,or snap back a moment and look right back at him dead in the eyes? Why have her fall to the ground with a horrid yelp like the viewer is supposed to be so mad at the main bad guy as opposed to the writers portraying her in such a pitiable manner? Is it because the intent is to make her vulnerable as a character? The writers already went overboard on the vulnerability, its time to show some real strength.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yes. I agree. I would assume that's exactly the reason they used that scene in the trailer. "You can hate this guy now".
No, that's not the biggest difference.
We would in both cases think that the bitch-slapped was pretty weak.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Eh I don't think a character getting slapped makes them eternally vulnerable/weak. Its simply a moment of weakness, questionable why it happens when the character has strong magic but there may be some plot we are missing. I'm sure Noctis will have weak moments as well. In fact I know he will.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Are they really? The majority of female characters they design have the same body type, (bubble butts especially), and have gotten increasingly similar hair styles not to mention that every one of them has a sexy alternate outfit with Christ being the only sexualized male lead.
She's literally being mind controlled via a parasite strapped to her chest which s controlled by a remote of all things. When possessed she barely talks.
I'd say they're increasingly getting worse in this regard. Especially Street Fighter, don't even get me started on Devil may cry having a character who's supposed to be a replica of your mom wearing tight leather lingerie and a demon huntress who wears hout pants and shows off so much cleavage that it's a wonder how she's capable of acrobatics without constantly having to put her breasts back in her outfit.
Men can be sexualized, it's just that they aren't usually since that's not what the average gamer (straight, male) wants to see. Men can be muscular and buff, but that's as far as it usually goes. This conversation reminds me of that Mobius FF game, where people got upset by how revealing the dude's outfit was. There were enough complaints that they decided to change the design.
It's kinda similar to the Cindy situation, except they decided to stick to their guns in her case.
Nope, I would react the same way. If a physically stronger person abuses a physically weaker person I do feel revulsion no matter if the person getting abused has a weener between his legs or not.
I felt bad for Prompto here and thought Gladio was an asshole for treating a much weaker person, let alone a friend, like that. But I noticed many others finding this funny or completely normal behaviour among "bros". :/
Mmmmmm, sexualized Jesus.
This is exactly how I feel about the majority of Japanese developers (Nintendo mostly excluded). It's really a shame because i grew up with a lot of these franchises back when graphics were simpler and unable to render the ridiculous gratuitous sexual content that these games are laden with. I find myself mostly sticking to western developed games for this reason.
Every time one of these huge japanese RPGs gets announced, I find myself longing to get lost in their rich worlds again. But as they get closer to release, and I learn about the stupid pandering, I have chosen to stand and vote with my wallet and NOT buy in. Xenoblade X was the last example of this, and I guess FFXV will be the next one I pass on... *sigh*
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
We could just wait until the game is out instead of btching about it right now, but you're right. Lets all base it on the trailers instead.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Edea?
Suzushiiro
Banned
Yeah, we kind of need the full context there. It's a little much to judge the game's overall treatment of its female characters before it's even released.
I'm reminded of how a lot of people were upset with Game of Thrones in season 5 due to some of the things that happened to the female characters (well, mostly one thing in particular) and then started fucking loving it in season 6 when many of the female characters engaged "taking no shit from anyone" mode. Looking at the whole story we've seen up until now, Game of Thrones is pretty fucking good with its female characters (
I mean, just about every major faction remaining in the show is led by a woman at this point
Ignoring the fact she's not one of the main party members, her design is barely sexualized. She's wearing a long dress with only a little bit of cleavage and that's because the person she is representing dresses that way. The actual character just wears a normal black dress that covers everything.
Check your data. As of 2014, the split between male and female gamers is basically 50/50. Are games still predominately marketed to straight male players? Absolutely. Part of the point of threads like this is to encourage the industry to change this practice.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'm not sure why I need to wait to complain about what they've already shown me.
I seem to remember hearing nearly this exact line of thought about another big game with a "sexy" woman last year.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
And you also don't get a featured view of broken Prompto falling down.Nope, I would react the same way. If a physically stronger person abuses a physically weaker person I do feel revulsion no matter if the person getting abused has a weener between his legs or not.
I felt bad for Prompto here and thought Gladio was an asshole for treating a much weaker person, let alone a friend, like that. But I noticed many others finding this funny or completely normal behaviour among "bros". :/
I'm not sure what show you're watching, because the general consensus is that season 6 was incredibly sexist.
I was just making assumptions, but that's cool. But yeah, all I was trying to say is that the industry caters to that demographic more than others, which is why we usually see more female characters sexualized a certain way.
Via Purifico
Banned
Nope, I would react the same way. If a physically stronger person abuses a physically weaker person I do feel revulsion no matter if the person getting abused has a weener between his legs or not.
I felt bad for Prompto here and thought Gladio was an asshole for treating a much weaker person, let alone a friend, like that. But I noticed many others finding this funny or completely normal behaviour among "bros". :/
I don't see anything comical about this scene and I think it's just a heated moment in a time of discourse.
Ignis is
apparently blind and in his own little world dealing with that
Friends do get into physical altercations and considering their situation I can see how things can get heated. Noctis probably needed some sense put into him which is why Gladio shoved Prompto.
Knightmarre
Member
I think that 2014 study included smart phones which found that women mostly play candy crush, farmville, and bejeweled. From what I've read the console market is mostly male so it makes sense to market towards your audience.
Yeah, I think smart phones changed the gaming landscape a lot. I wouldn't place those types of gamers in the same category as hardcore console gamers, but I don't wanna start that argument lol. Of course, that doesn't mean that female gamers should be excluded or ignored, whether they're half the market or not.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Chicken or the egg.
Are console demographics tilted towards men for some weird, underlying psychosocial reason, or because devs continue to focus on men, leaving women out in the cold?
Conversely, if it's true that women aren't playing console games, doesn't that mean a significant untapped potential that console developers should be trying to get after? Blue ocean strategy and all that? Which seems especially relevant given that Final Fantasy is a big game, so it should be trying to go after the biggest audience it can, not just a good ol' boys club audience?
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Why do we have to be concerned that there is a game with (potentially) no strong female characters, and a story focused on four guys on a trip?
Where was the outrage for X-2!?
Where was the outrage for X-2!?
Jesus... You people are crazy. What's wrong with pandering!? There are plenty of japanese games which pander to women too; just not as many of them.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
- They brought the discussion of strong characters on themselves by claiming to have included a "strong female character."
- Most people are fine with the idea of a bro-adtrip, myself included. I think it's a unique idea, although I think the actual "trip" part is going to be underbaked here and hopefully someone else will try it again soon.
- The concern isn't with having no strong female characters, but having shitty female characters.
KZXcellent
Member
It's a parody account.
i know it a pardoy accout i thought it funny for you guys to see this
Hexa
Member
Not nearly as good as Kaz, but pretty good. Followed. Thanks!
Sephiroth_VII
Member
How do we know they won't!? No one outside of SE has played more than a few hours of the game!
Based on what?
What's the difference, exactly?
Men can be sexualized, it's just that they aren't usually since that's not what the average gamer (straight, male) wants to see. Men can be muscular and buff, but that's as far as it usually goes. This conversation reminds me of that Mobius FF game, where people got upset by how revealing the dude's outfit was. There were enough complaints that they decided to change the design.
It's kinda similar to the Cindy situation, except they decided to stick to their guns in her case.
The neogaf thread on this was both hilariously ironic and sad, especially when the downgrade happen. Like we can't even get 1 good skimpy male lead. Not to mention that this will probably be the last time Square does this for quite some time. People say there are sexualized males all the time, there aren't, there could have been, it was shut down before it ever even got out.
Also off topic but is the downgrade that real or is it just a shitty screenshot?
Haha, not sure. I just pulled the first pic I came across.
You think people didn't have outrage for X2?
Fact of the matter is, people have come to expect a bit more.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
What's your point? Are you in the dumb camp of "we can't discuss the game until it comes out"? There's things out there and we're discussing what they've shown us.
"How can we know they won't!? No one outside of Konami has played more than a few hours of the game!"
Been here, done this.
My personal feelings from what I've seen of the game so far. I don't think the roadtrip angle is nearly as important as they initially made it out to be, and I hope someone explores that angle more in-depth in another game someday.
Because you can have strong female characters and shitty characters, like if Luna ends up good and Cindy stays shit? And I'd rather have only the former and none of the latter?
Love it haha. Thanks for this.
now its far too late and I too tired to go digging this up but consoles have always had a decent female playerbase with the gap closing every year in spite of so many games being marketed towards men.
I do remember being pleasantly surprised at the start of this gen to see just how many females were buying consoles, at least in the US.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Well, guess I'm just not part of "people" then. I love games with deep, relatable characters, and I love girls in skimpy clothes. If the two can be combined and work; great. If a game has only one or the other; great.
I expect this to be in the first category by the way, but I guess I'm wrong because we've already seen the first hour or so of the game or something.
The missing outrage for X2 I was hinting at was outrage at the lack of strong male characters.
So because game X from company A turned out this way, game Y from company B is doomed to do the same? Bullshit.
So from seeing someone play the first hour. Of a Final Fantasy game. A series with average playtimes in the high sixties. Yeah, that's worth a lot.
Well, your (maybe)shitty is my eye candy.
Nope, I would react the same way. If a physically stronger person abuses a physically weaker person I do feel revulsion no matter if the person getting abused has a weener between his legs or not.
I felt bad for Prompto here and thought Gladio was an asshole for treating a much weaker person, let alone a friend, like that. But I noticed many others finding this funny or completely normal behaviour among "bros". :/
If I'm arguing with someone and that person puts a hand on me, then my own friend, regardless of what's being said comes and puts both his hands on me, yes it's normal for me to push him away.
In the face. Right.
I do get what you're saying it's pretty nuts that FF is making a boys night version of their game and there is a lot of sexualization going on. But as a non white player I envy the representation. In 13 the only black guy had a goofy Afro even though he was an ok character and in this one I think we only exist as npcs. So I agree that there is a problem with how they're treating women but I also want to add diversity is bothering me too
Sephiroth_VII
Member
This must be frustrating, but there just aren't that many black people in Japan. Not to mention the public opinion of them unfortunately isn't great either(for various reasons; not all unfounded)*.
This adds up to it just not being a natural thing to do for a Japanese character designer to put black people in a game. Sad but true.
African americans are often used as "pullers"; people hired to stand around in the street and strong-arm passers-bys into entering sleazy establishments or dance clubs. Anyone who's walked through Kabukicho or Roppongi at night will have noticed this. I have no idea why.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
So because marketing tells us something about characters, maybe it's fine to draw conclusions about what they've shown us?
Yeah, bullshit.
Maybe, maybe not. We'll see who's right.
Who gives a flying fuck about your eye candy? Fuck your eye candy.
He's not looking at the dude, I don't think we can say he did it intentionally.
Did someone make that account specifically to call out 'GAF' while at the same time lay down a horrible argument that makes no sense?
NOBODY SAID WOMEN CANT GET INJURED. Infact i welcome it! But it has to be balanced with something in the character to make them strong enough to survive it!
Aqua gets injured, but she's always been shown as capable, and strong mentally, she's not being picked on.
Its just a horrible argument in general.
They are not really intended to be white, but fantasy characters with multicolored hair. Not literally the equivalent of real life Caucasian. Its the same with anime and manga, even with japanese characters.
I'm a black man living in Japan and it's not as rare as you think. That being said no one of Japanese decent is a natural blonde but that doesn't seem to bother anyone. If Japan can makes games with white protagonist I don't see a problem with more diversity in the main cast
And that quote about pullers isn't true I've been here for 8 years black people don't pull for shady establishments they don't even want foreigners to work or visit them so yea.
Prompto wanted to get between them to arbitrate. And that's not the usual way you push someone away, is it? With your hand on someone's face and so forceful that you send that someone flying.
By the way, I am not arguing that this isn't a well done or unrealistic scene (I think it's actually pretty good and emotionally heated) I just think Gladio is an ass for pushing Prompto, who is so much weaker than him, away like that.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Well, yes. Especially when that marketing has been very conservative with what it's shown us so far. You can, however, criticize the marketing.
Even if you end up being right, as of this moment, it's still and unfounded assumptuion based on way too little knowledge. It's not about being right or wrong, it's about what we can reasonably conclude from what we've been shown to date. Hint: Currently not a hell of a lot when it comes to the supporting cast.
I do. Who gives a fuck about what you want? Fuck what you want.
See what I did there?
KZXcellent
Member
No, someone made that account to make jokes as Nomura. Makes plenty of jokes about FFXV, KH. Pretty light-hearted.
Whoa now what did they do to you to deserve that? That was a bit harsh.
grr, i need to calm down. Getting riled up on the internet is so ridiculous