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[Sephiroth_VII]

I'm a black man living in Japan and it's not as rare as you think.

...

And that quote about pullers isn't true I've been here for 8 years black people don't pull for shady establishments they don't even want foreigners to work or visit them so yea.

Well, I don't know what Japan you live in, but they sure as hell were there whenever I've been out in town. And in pretty high numbers too, considering how many you see out in the streets during the day.

I'm not saying that there are no black people in Japan though, just that there are fewer than people of most other skin colours.

... That being said no one of Japanese decent is a natural blonde but that doesn't seem to bother anyone. If Japan can makes games with white protagonist I don't see a problem with more diversity in the main cast ...

It's not "really" a white protagonist in most anime you know. Hair color is just used as an easy way to recognize the character. Japanese games/anime with a western protagonist are fairly rare, though common compared to those with a black protagonist

 

[Big0Bear]

Did someone make that account specifically to call out 'GAF' while at the same time lay down a horrible argument that makes no sense?

NOBODY SAID WOMEN CANT GET INJURED. Infact i welcome it! But it has to be balanced with something in the character to make them strong enough to survive it!

Aqua gets injured, but she's always been shown as capable, and strong mentally, she's not being picked on.

Its just a horrible argument in general.



They are not really intended to be white, but fantasy characters with multicolored hair. Not literally the equivalent of real life Caucasian. Its the same with anime and manga, even with japanese characters.

I've heard that before and that is true some of the time but there are games and anime that do the very opposite often too. Like full metal alchemist or metal gear, RE, devil may cry, and metal gear

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I do. Who gives a fuck about what you want? Fuck what you want.. See what I did there? By outright dismissing the other person's interest as worthless, the conversation ends.

Your interest in eye candy is worthless, yes.

Congratulations.

Whoa now what did they do to you to deserve that? That was a bit harsh.

Treating women like eye candy is how we got to this point.

So yes, fuck your desire for eye candy in Final Fantasy.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

ill just leave this here

https://twitter.com/CrazyNomura/status/776554675764027393

Missing the point.

 

[gamingPotato7]

I agree. Cindy is a disgrace, sadly. Gladios is not nearly as sexualized as her, although he could be. Actually no characters should be sexualized. After Quiet I thought we wouldn't see any more of that bullshit at least in triple A games from Japan or from anywhere else. It's such a stupid thing, to sexualize a bunch of polygons. Are there people who buy games because of these characters?

Regarding Luna, I think we should wait for the full game to see what role she has in the story and how she behaves.

 

[Rappy]

What's your point? Are you in the dumb camp of "we can't discuss the game until it comes out"? There's things out there and we're discussing what they've shown us.

"How can we know they won't!? No one outside of Konami has played more than a few hours of the game!"

You don't seem to be in the camp of actually discussing things and just being dismissive of people with different views. There's a difference between discussing what was shown and what you type out in your posts. Maybe you don't realize it or maybe you're doing it intentionally, but there's a reason you get the responses you get.

And oh, you were talking about Quiet? I got the impression that people who played the game thought Quiet was okay as a character but the outfit/fan service was dumb. Which is more than what you're saying about Cindy. But I guess that's subjective ain't it? Also, I'm remembering the issue being more there was supposed to be a good explanation for her outfit which yes, there wasn't really one.

 

[pashmilla]

I do. Who gives a fuck about what you want? Fuck what you want.

See what I did there?

You're essentially saying you're willing to trade growing equality and representation of women and minorities in video games for the sake of a bunch of pixels you can fap to. So yeah, fuck your eye candy.

 

[Big0Bear]

Well, I don't know what Japan you live in, but they sure as hell were there whenever I've been out in town. And in pretty high numbers too, considering how many you see out in the streets during the day.

I'm not saying that there are no black people in Japan though, just that there are fewer than people of most other skin colours.

I think only 1 or 2% of Japan's population is foreign that being said more diversity shouldn't be an issue. Japanese movie came out this summer and there was a scene with the president and they still made him white. I'm not asking for a black protagonist just better ( or any) representation. Same as is wanting better treatment of the way they make female characters

 

[dramatis]

I do. Who gives a fuck about what you want? Fuck what you want.

See what I did there?

There's a difference between wanting better representation of women and wanting eye candy, and I highly doubt you're in the right here. At the very least, you're not the one with a noble argument.

I do get what you're saying it's pretty nuts that FF is making a boys night version of their game and there is a lot of sexualization going on. But as a non white player I envy the representation. In 13 the only black guy had a goofy Afro even though he was an ok character and in this one I think we only exist as npcs. So I agree that there is a problem with how they're treating women but I also want to add diversity is bothering me too

I thought about how bad it was the whole crew was white too, including nonplayable characters. But right now you have a bunch of guys defending shitty female character designs and roles, insisting that the females are fine, so I imagine there would be some other bullshit used to justify why there is no diversity in a fantasy setting.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Your interest in eye candy is worthless, yes.

Congratulations.

Well, it makes me happy. What makes your desires worth more than mine?

Treating women like eye candy is how we got to this point.

So yes, fuck your desire for eye candy in Final Fantasy.

You might want to go outside for a bit. Repeat after me "Games aren't real, Cidney is just a polygon mesh. Games aren't real, Cidney is just a polygon mesh.".

Felling better?

There's a difference between wanting better representation of women and wanting eye candy, and I highly doubt you're in the right here. At the very least, you're not the one with a noble argument.

If being noble means sealing off my desires and lying to myself, then I don't think I want to be.

 

[Tyaren]

It's such a stupid thing, to sexualize a bunch of polygons. Are there people who buy games because of these characters?

Simple answer:
Yes!

 

[Garlador]

Are they really? The majority of female characters they design have the same body type, (bubble butts especially), and have gotten increasingly similar hair styles not to mention that every one of them has a sexy alternate outfit with Chris being the only sexualized male lead.

Capcom in GENERAL is pretty good about their women and diversity. That includes games outside of Resident Evil.

Capcom, in fact, may be the producer that has produced games with the most women of color (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong). From playable black female leads in games like Resident Evil 5 to a half-black lead in games like Remember Me to playable black fighters like Elena in Street Fighter to Lucia in Devil May Cry, etc. ETHNICALLY, they do more than most publishers - even American ones - when it comes to regional diversity, even if most of their women still follow the template of "hot girl".

But even then, you do get a lot of body variation between many characters (though not as much as the men).

She's literally being mind controlled via a parasite strapped to her chest which s controlled by a remote of all things. When possessed she barely talks.

And that's why I said I was disappointed in how they handled her in the base game, but the DLC starring her picks up immediately after she is freed by Chris and shows her returning to form, despite all the stuff she'd been through, demonstrating a stronger and more resilient character than the base game ever did. It was short, but it definitely was an improvement. I do think it sucks she spends the majority of the game as a mindless puppet and then disappears for the rest of the experience, but the DLC shows how much hell she had to fight through between her "disappearance" and the ending of the game. She's beyond capable.

I'd say they're increasingly getting worse in this regard. Especially Street Fighter, don't even get me started on Devil may cry having a character who's supposed to be a replica of your mom wearing tight leather lingerie and a demon huntress who wears hout pants and shows off so much cleavage that it's a wonder how she's capable of acrobatics without constantly having to put her breasts back in her outfit.

Trish goes back the very first game well over 15 years ago, and even then they got a bit better over time. "Lady" is a great female character, Lucia was stuck in a bad game, but she's presented as more than capable, and Dante himself is a walking ball of shirtless, pizza-eating beefcake plenty of times himself. It could be argued that even Trish's design herself was created deliberately to mess with Dante's head, including the way she looks and dresses.

Point still being, Capcom isn't flawless by any stretch of the imagination, and I have plenty of ammunition to fire at them for poor takes on female heroines, but I'll give them credit where credit is due. They certainly do have a more diverse cast of women than most other publishers and they put out an extremely large number of games starring playable female heroines, from Resident Evil to Dino Crisis to Remember Me to Street Fighter to Viewtiful Joe to Okami to many others.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

You're essentially saying you're willing to trade growing equality and representation of women and minorities in video games for the sake of a bunch of pixels you can fap to. So yeah, fuck your eye candy.

No I'm not. I'm saying that I don't personally get riled up about it, or see it as something bad, when there is eye-candy in games. I don't need all my characters in all my games to be super-strong, emotionally deep people.

I feel the same way about male eye-candy. You won't find any posts from me complaining about Gladios losing his shirt. It's fine, we can all be here.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Well, it makes me happy. What makes your desires worth more than mine?

My desire is to have well-written and designed characters in a story.

Your desire is to have something wankable in a game.

I don't think it's hard to think why your desire is worth less when you can just go watch some free internet porn or have sex if you need titillation that badly.

You might want to go outside for a bit. Repeat after me "Games aren't real, Cidney is just a polygon mesh. Games aren't real, Cidney is just a polygon mesh.".

Felling better?

Repeat after me: "Video games are things people consume and have a real effect on people and therefore how they portray human beings matters."

Feeling smarter?

There's a difference between discussing what was shown and what you type out in your posts. Maybe you don't realize it or maybe you're doing it intentionally, but there's a reason you get the responses you get.

And oh, you were talking about Quiet? I got the impression that people who played the game thought Quiet was okay as a character but the outfit/fan service was dumb. Which is more than what you're saying about Cindy. But I guess that's subjective ain't it?

Quiet is a shit character with a shit character arc with a shit design as the cherry on top.

Cindy has a garbage design, garbage vocal work, garbage animations, garbage camera shots and is being used in garbage marketing. I expect any "story" or "character" bits to be similarly trashy.

Maybe I'll be wrong. But I doubt it. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a goddamn duck.

 

[KZXcellent]

grr, i need to calm down. Getting riled up on the internet is so ridiculous

Yeah it's all good, we're all friends here~

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

My desire is to have well-written and designed characters in a story.

Your desire is to have something wankable in a game.

I don't think it's hard to think why your desire is worth less when you can just go watch some free internet porn or have sex if you need titillation that badly.

No, I have several desires. I like well-written characters, and I like having something to look at. I certainly don't wank to skimpily clad girls in video games; I've got the internet

Spoiler

and Japanese pc games

for that.

Repeat after me: "Video games are things people consume and have a real effect on people and therefore how they portray human beings matters."

Never knew Jack Thompson had a GAF account.

Feeling smarter?

Feeling superior?

Quiet is a shit character with a shit character arc with a shit design as the cherry on top.

Yep, no disagreeing from me here.

Cindy has a garbage design, garbage vocal work, garbage animations, garbage camera shots and is being used in garbage marketing. I expect any "story" or "character" bits to be similarly trashy.

Aaaaand we're back to total and complete conjecture.

Maybe I'll be wrong. But I doubt it. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a goddamn duck.

I like birds too!

 

[Big0Bear]

There's a difference between wanting better representation of women and wanting eye candy, and I highly doubt you're in the right here. At the very least, you're not the one with a noble argument.


I thought about how bad it was the whole crew was white too, including nonplayable characters. But right now you have a bunch of guys defending shitty female character designs and roles, insisting that the females are fine, so I imagine there would be some other bullshit used to justify why there is no diversity in a fantasy setting.

Yea I'm always the guy that ruins the party with talking about race. I know it's pointless to say anything but hell it makes me feel better to know people are in the same boat as me.

 

[gosoxtim]

Did someone make that account specifically to call out 'GAF' while at the same time lay down a horrible argument that makes no sense?

NOBODY SAID WOMEN CANT GET INJURED. Infact i welcome it! But it has to be balanced with something in the character to make them strong enough to survive it!

Aqua gets injured, but she's always been shown as capable, and strong mentally, she's not being picked on.

Its just a horrible argument in general.

which is why i dont get you guys here you can have a strong female charachter but you dont have to remnid me if she strong or not or look at aqua not once she was mention by nomura that aqua was strong woman

 

[PtM]

#TeamFuckYourEyeCandy

 

[Inuhanyou]

which is why i dont get you guys here you can have a strong female charachter but you dont have to remnid me if she strong or not or look at aqua not once she was mention by nomura that aqua was strong woman

? Tabata is the only one who mentioned Luna being a strong woman and strong female character, which is why the onus is on him to show that in promotional materials for the game.

Something along with the very few other limited female character we've seen so far, is not generally the norm.

 

[wilstreak]

in FF XIII, they make overpowered female as lead character called Lightning and most people don't like it.

So now SE have learn from their "mistake" and adjust the scale of power a little bit and yet somehow people call SE as an sexist. Forgetting about the fact that they make Lightning as probably the strongest MC in FF Universe.
It is funny though because the second strongest is Terra, another female lead in FF VI.

 

[.JayZii]

#TeamFuckYourEyeCandy

Meaning you want to fuck the eye candy characters, or you don't want the eye candy characters?

 

[Lime]

"Luna having a style of affluent people" means very little. The privilege of wealth is that she can dress in a vast swath of fashions available; contemporary fashion is broad from culture, history, and the enhancements of the technologies available today to make different fabrics and clothing. Yet her design was made with simple white dress, blonde hair, blue eyes, soft demeanor. It's evident even from visual design that Luna is supposed to be a 'pure beautiful nice princess', the equivalent of being a trophy. It's not a strong fashion sense; it's just a dull dress intended to reflect a boring character.

A character who would walk in wearing this is infinitely more interesting, stylish, and likely present more of a personality than what Luna's visual design conveys. It is the developer's choice to make Luna look the way she does, so there aren't excuses, it's just natural that she would look like that because they aim for a specific type of boring supportive girl character.

Games of the west have been working to modify their products according to feedback. Even Call of Duty is exhibiting initiative in having a diverse cast and better characterization of these characters. The linking of old marketing material in this thread and the insistence of FF's merits in the past do not reflect the current state of FF or the evolution of the industry and the environment post-GamerGate. Has the industry not changed since 2006, where these 12 trailers and these AC trailers are being linked as if they were proof of anything? Even back then FF was not at the forefront of pushing less emphasis on fanservice elements on female characters: Tifa, the tight suit of Garnet emphasizing her ass, Lulu bending over to jiggle her boobs as a victory pose, the fanservice costumes of 10-2, the designs of Ashe and Fran in 12, Vanille having a plot mark on her butt, the reduction of Lightning to a dress up doll over the 13 trilogy. Pre-7 they could get away with sketchy designs because of sprites.

By now, with Luna and Cidney, it is evident that FF is backsliding. Part of this is not the fault of Square; after all, they cannot control the cultural proclivities of Japan. But unlike Tales, or Star Ocean, or even Persona, which rides the line between niche and something more successful than niche, FF has the advantage of global success and mainstream access. Yet the developers felt the urge to put in garbage like Cidney, when they don't need to pander to that market to sell more. For Dragon Quest, SE does not need that sort of material for mainstream success, yet you find your puff-puffs and your va va vooms and your bikini clad female characters in there too. For Mobius, SE responded to complaints about the male character design, but complaints about female character design in 15 fell to deaf ears. Is there not something inherently wrong there?

Making "some of the best representations of women in gaming throughout history" is not a high bar when the portrayal of women in gaming is rubbish to begin with. SE has not been a leader in game design, story, character, tech, anything for 10 years; for FF15, we have stooped to asking them to meet the new, 2016 baseline for female characters. Rather than standing apart from the crowd of otaku-oriented female designs, SE has stuck their feet in the pool, and ignored feedback that suggested they should get out before they get deeper.

If tech is what hobbled Japan in the PS360 gen, what will hobble them in HD games from here on out is something substantially more difficult: a divergence in the culture and tastes of the western market from the culture and tastes of the domestic Japan market. The mainstream of Japan has moved to mobile; to sell console games they have to pander to otaku. But that market is nowhere near big enough to repay the cost of developing a big budget JRPG like a mainline FF. To tackle that, yes, Square has to avoid doing Cidney-like pandering. They have to write female characters that appeal to more than domestic Japanese men. They have to get to growing their audience, not shrinking it. Cidney-types, Luna-types, those are not the way to go.

I really like this post

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Yea I'm always the guy that ruins the party with talking about race. I know it's pointless to say anything but hell it makes me feel better to know people are in the same boat as me.

Well, I'm sorry that you feel under-represented in Japanese games. I just don't know hoe you solve that problem, as I can see many reasons why Japanese designers and devs usually don't include black people as major characters.

? Tabata is the only one who mentioned Luna being a strong woman and strong female character, which is why the onus is on him to show that in promotional materials for the game.

Surely the onus is on him to show that in the full game, no? The trailers have been very light on side-characters so far; male or female.

"Luna having a style of affluent people" means very little. The privilege of wealth is that she can dress in a vast swath of fashions available; contemporary fashion is broad from culture, history, and the enhancements of the technologies available today to make different fabrics and clothing. Yet her design was made with simple white dress, blonde hair, blue eyes, soft demeanor. It's evident even from visual design that Luna is supposed to be a 'pure beautiful nice princess', the equivalent of being a trophy. It's not a strong fashion sense; it's just a dull dress intended to reflect a boring character.

A character who would walk in wearing this is infinitely more interesting, stylish, and likely present more of a personality than what Luna's visual design conveys. It is the developer's choice to make Luna look the way she does, so there aren't excuses, it's just natural that she would look like that because they aim for a specific type of boring supportive girl character.

...that dress is god-awful. I'm so glad you're not the character designer for this game.

Also, that's a lot of presumptions you have there based on what; two minutes of footage featuring this character?

 

[gosoxtim]

? Tabata is the only one who mentioned Luna being a strong woman and strong female character, which is why the onus is on him to show that in promotional materials for the game.

Something along with the very few other limited female character we've seen so far, is not generally the norm.

then it tabata deliver on that promise but i always like show dont tell mantilty when it come to this sitation

 

[MogCakes]

I agree OP. The way the trailers show the females, it's a clear bent towards 'this is a man's war'. That could just be an unfortunate effect of the marketing team, but that is the impression shown. I have some hope the actual game will show them in a better light.

 

[Inuhanyou]

in FF XIII, they make overpowered female as lead character called Lightning and most people don't like it.

So now SE have learn from their "mistake" and adjust the scale of power a little bit and yet somehow people call SE as an sexist. Forgetting about the fact that they make Lightning as probably the strongest MC in FF Universe.
It is funny though because the second strongest is Terra, another female lead in FF VI.

Are you saying that the only thing that matters to female portrayal is physical strength?

How about they make a character that is actually good and represented well in media. Nobody cares about lighting cause she was a bad character, it doesn't matter what acrobatics she can do or how overpowered her abilities get if her character is less than a bag of bricks.

 

[Mcdohl]

Holy shit with this thread.

A lot of its criticisms might turn out to be true, and valid, but at least give it a chance?

Just be careful...

Some of you are going to build arguments based only on what you've seen from the trailers that have shown similar footage over and over again, then convince yourself enough to possibly skew how you enjoy/view the game.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

in FF XIII, they make overpowered female as lead character called Lightning and most people don't like it.

So now SE have learn from their "mistake" and adjust the scale of power a little bit and yet somehow people call SE as an sexist. Forgetting about the fact that they make Lightning as probably the strongest MC in FF Universe.
It is funny though because the second strongest is Terra, another female lead in FF VI.

The problem people had with Lightning wasn't that she was too strong, it was because it was a badly written character.

And yet that strong character couldn't ran away of having breast augmentation and becoming a dress up doll with revealing outfits.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

The problem people had with Lightning wasn't that she was too strong, it was because it was a badly written character.

And yet that strong character couldn't ran away of having breast augmentation and becoming a dress up doll with revealing outfits.

The terror! And most women usually HATE wearing sexy clothes. So unrealistic.

Personal opinion here: That character was so weak, it didn't even feel like a weird thing for her to do. Didn't finish any of the XIII games though. Played them all for varying lengths of time.

 

[Mcdohl]

The problem people had with Lightning wasn't that she was too strong, it was because it was a badly written character.

And yet that strong character couldn't ran away of having breast augmentation and becoming a dress up doll with revealing outfits.

The last part is specially true. I don't hate Lightning as 99% of NeoGAF does, but some outfits in LR were totally out of place for her personality.

I'm not offended at the fact that they're skimpy or revealing, I'm just unhappy at how SE was so inconsistent with their own creation.

 

[JayBabay]

? Tabata is the only one who mentioned Luna being a strong woman and strong female character, which is why the onus is on him to show that in promotional materials for the game.

Something along with the very few other limited female character we've seen so far, is not generally the norm.

But when they first showed Luna there was immediately a lot of backlash and pressure on the dev to have her take more from Stella in that regard. That may have played a part in him prematurely stating that she will be strong but not wanting to show anything until players have the game in hand.

 

[Rising_Hei]

The so called "feedback" is killing many good things, listening to people can actually be a really bad thing, just let them make the game they want.

When every character has to pass the "society" feedback, everything ends up being samey with no soul at all, books, movies, games, or wathever. Art comes from the mind of authors, not from a collective's shared ideas.

The same things happens when they want to produce a game to catter a certain audience. We ended up getting 230434389 clons of WoW and nothing more (MMORPG), and 93039039 clons of COD4. The same shit can happens to character or anything for listening too much to people that overthink anything, just enjoy, if you have to wait 2 months to play... then wait, and if you have to complain; wait until playing the game atleast... this is getting truly sad and it has been going on for a while, jesus !

My fiction will keep getting worse if they keep listening.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Never knew Jack Thompson had a GAF account.

Oh, fuck off you twat.

Try reading a study about media portrayals and things like standards of beauty before you open your mouth and betray your complete and total ignorance.

I suggest you start here:

in FF XIII, they make overpowered female as lead character called Lightning and most people don't like it.

So now SE have learn from their "mistake" and adjust the scale of power a little bit and yet somehow people call SE as an sexist. Forgetting about the fact that they make Lightning as probably the strongest MC in FF Universe.
It is funny though because the second strongest is Terra, another female lead in FF VI.

It couldn't possibly be that Lightning was poorly written!

 

[wilstreak]

Are you saying that the only thing that matters to female portrayal is physical strength?

How about they make a character that is actually good and represented well in media. Nobody cares about lighting cause she was a bad character, it doesn't matter what acrobatics she can do or how overpowered her abilities get if her character is less than a bag of bricks.

aside from physical strength, they portray Lightning as someone independent, strong willed, etc.

That's the problem. Their last 2 attempt to make strong female lead in MAINLINE FF always result in a flop. Think FFXIII, Lightning Returns and FF X-2.
Their most beloved storyline in contrary is about strong male lead saving damsel in distress (not always the case though).
So from business standpoint, portraying female lead as someone like Luna is safer than Stella.
Like just admit it, maybe SE, a team composed of possibly male-centric scriptwriter is not good with making story with strong female lead. The result always bad.

Though Agni Philosophy, which has a good chance to eventually announced as FF XVI might feature another female lead character.
Off course some people would call her badly writtern character.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Oh, fuck off you twat.

Well, now I have no choice but to leave; how could I ever hope to compete with your lovable personality?

 

[Inuhanyou]

The terror! And most women usually HATE wearing sexy clothes. So unrealistic.

Toriyama specifically ordered making her breasts bigger for lightning returns to make her look more 'appealing'.

She was not even a character in LR though, more like a dress up doll.

 

[dramatis]

...that dress is god-awful. I'm so glad you're not the character designer for this game.

Also, that's a lot of presumptions you have there based on what; two minutes of footage featuring this character?

Given you like eye candy and skimpy outfits, I daresay the one with no taste or sense of fashion here is you.

I don't know why you object to arguments asking for better representation, other than it apparently hampers your visual enjoyment of scantily clad bodies.

So what if the assessment is based on two minutes of footage? Are those few minutes of footage not supposed to be designed to get people to buy the game? If those minutes show a weak and superficially "strong" female character, should I not call it out?

 

[PtM]

The so called "feedback" is killing many good things, listening to people can actually be a really bad thing, just let them make the game they want.

When every character has to pass the "society" feedback, everything ends up being samey with no soul at all, books, movies, games, or wathever. Art comes from the mind of authors, not from a collective's shared ideas.

The same things happens when they want to produce a game to catter a certain audience. We ended up getting 230434389 clons of WoW and nothing more (MMORPG), and 93039039 clons of COD4. The same shit can happens to character or anything for listening too much to people that overthink anything, just enjoy, if you have to wait 2 months to play... then wait, and if you have to complain; wait until playing the game atleast... this is getting truly sad and it has been going on for a while, jesus !

My fiction will keep getting worse if they keep listening.

And you spout this garbage to defend otaku pandering, the lowest, most soul-devoid artistic bankruptcy of all...

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Given you like eye candy and skimpy outfits, I daresay the one with no taste or sense of fashion here is you.

I don't know why you object to arguments asking for better representation, other than it apparently hampers your visual enjoyment of scantily clad bodies.

So what if the assessment is based on two minutes of footage? Are those few minutes of footage not supposed to be designed to get people to buy the game? If those minutes show a weak and superficially "strong" female character, should I not call it out?

Honestly, I don't love that dress either, but it's infinitely more interesting than the plain-ass, boring, purity-white dress they went with.

 

[Lime]

The entire media industry and advertising is filled with sexualized women. You have films with exclusively good looking women. Magazines with photoshopped models. And you have video games where boob windows and male gaze is the course of almost every day.

And then you have tons of porn on the internet you can fap to. Yet you still want even more women to fap to? Does it ever end? Does every single female character in media have to orbit your dick?

So many people are so crazy about getting their heterosexual dick stroked that they need to have tits and ass everywhere and they will defend it incessantly and go to great irrational lengths to justify it ("censorship", "artistic vision", "PC culture run amok, harassment campaigns. bomb threats, etc.) All because they need to have their libido stimulated at every single second in their media. It's ridiculous.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

And you spout this garbage to defend otaku pandering, the lowest, most soul-devoid artistic bankruptcy of all...

That's what you call it. I call it otaku pandering. I'm an otaku. I like being pandered to. From my perspective, toning down the sexuality of a game from what it was originally intended to be is pandering to feminist extremists. I like playing both the games you advocate for, and the games you hate. I just don't want one of them to go away.

 

[Inuhanyou]

aside from physical strength, they portray Lightning as someone independent, strong willed, etc.

Check boxing "independent" and "strong willed' type personality traits don't equate to a good character. What matters is portrayal of those kinds of elements and execution, which was botched horribly.

That's what you call it. I call it otaku pandering. I'm an otaku. I like being pandered to. From my perspective, toning down the sexuality of a game is pandering to femist extremists.

Oh boy.

To think we got here from just wanting to see a relatively adjusted female character. Some people literally can't seem to comprehend what we're talking about at all.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

The so called "feedback" is killing many good things, listening to people can actually be a really bad thing, just let them make the game they want.

When every character has to pass the "society" feedback, everything ends up being samey with no soul at all, books, movies, games, or wathever. Art comes from the mind of authors, not from a collective's shared ideas.

The same things happens when they want to produce a game to catter a certain audience. We ended up getting 230434389 clons of WoW and nothing more (MMORPG), and 93039039 clons of COD4. The same shit can happens to character or anything for listening too much to people that overthink anything, just enjoy, if you have to wait 2 months to play... then wait, and if you have to complain; wait until playing the game atleast... this is getting truly sad and it has been going on for a while, jesus !

My fiction will keep getting worse if they keep listening.

I'm pretty sure the problem you're describing here is exactly what happens when creators give people things that they don't want.

That's what you call it. I call it otaku pandering. I'm an otaku. I like being pandered to. From my perspective, toning down the sexuality of a game is pandering to feminist extremists.

World: "It'd be cool if we were able to treat women like people and rather than purely as sexual objects for men to drool over."

Otaku: "What is this female-supremacist nonsense"

This doesn't even dignify a response. This is hilarious.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Oh boy.

To think we got here from just wanting to see a relatively adjusted female character. Some people literally can't seem to comprehend what we're talking about at all.

I totally comprehend it, I just disagree with you.

This doesn't even dignify a response. This is hilarious.

Glad we had this conversation.

Given you like eye candy and skimpy outfits, I daresay the one with no taste or sense of fashion here is you.

I don't know why you object to arguments asking for better representation, other than it apparently hampers your visual enjoyment of scantily clad bodies.

So what if the assessment is based on two minutes of footage? Are those few minutes of footage not supposed to be designed to get people to buy the game? If those minutes show a weak and superficially "strong" female character, should I not call it out?

I like a lot of stuff. That dress is still awful(in my eyes).

It obviously doesn't have to be skimpy to look good, it just has to be less... that dress.

 

[Kanann]

Tabata or his subordinate read webboard's feedbacks often, and this thread may delay the game for another more year *laugh

 

[Zoe]

The neogaf thread on this was both hilariously ironic and sad, especially when the downgrade happen. Like we can't even get 1 good skimpy male lead. Not to mention that this will probably be the last time Square does this for quite some time. People say there are sexualized males all the time, there aren't, there could have been, it was shut down before it ever even got out.


Also off topic but is the downgrade that real or is it just a shitty screenshot?

Downgrade? I'd say the newer outfit is an upgrade. The original looked awful and wasn't sexy AT ALL.

 

[Ran rp]

toning down the sexuality of a game is pandering to femist extremists

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The entire media industry and advertising is filled with sexualized women. You have films with exclusively good looking women. Magazines with photoshopped models. And you have video games where boob windows and male gaze is the course of almost every day.

And then you have tons of porn on the internet you can fap to. Yet you still want even more women to fap to? Does it ever end? Does every single female character in media have to orbit your dick?

So many people are so crazy about getting their heterosexual dick stroked that they need to have tits and ass everywhere and they will defend it incessantly and go to great irrational lengths to justify it ("censorship", "artistic vision", "PC culture run amok, harassment campaigns. bomb threats, etc.) All because they need to have their libido stimulated at every single second in their media. It's ridiculous.

The thing that people refuse to consider is...maybe the artistic vision sucks balls.

I won't stop you from making it, but don't expect me to not critique you just because of "artistry."

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

So you wouldn't say turning it up is pandering to otaku? It's the same argument you know. If a certain group wants something, and you give it to them in hopes of increasing sales, that's pandering. It's not necessarily bad, it just depends on what you want.

The entire media industry and advertising is filled with sexualized women. You have films with exclusively good looking women. Magazines with photoshopped models. And you have video games where boob windows and male gaze is the course of almost every day.

And then you have tons of porn on the internet you can fap to. Yet you still want even more women to fap to? Does it ever end? Does every single female character in media have to orbit your dick?

So many people are so crazy about getting their heterosexual dick stroked that they need to have tits and ass everywhere and they will defend it incessantly and go to great irrational lengths to justify it ("censorship", "artistic vision", "PC culture run amok, harassment campaigns. bomb threats, etc.) All because they need to have their libido stimulated at every single second in their media. It's ridiculous.

I don't want that, actually. I'm just tired of people arguing that the very concept of a sexy just being sexy for the hell of it character is ruining society.