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[PuppetMaster]

Logic falls apart when you consider they’re already in that situation with Mojang, Bungie and Sony San Diego.

Logic falls apart when you don't realize he is talking about sharing information of UNRELEASED consoles. Not released and in production.

Unreleased console prototypes and dev road maps are only shared with very close partners that can sign a NDA and non compet agreements.

 

[midnightAI]

Some people are shocked by this? really?

Why the hell would you give your competitor the partial or full information about your upcoming console 12-24 months before you launch? thats one way to make sure you will never have the upper hand (some third party partners even have (rough) pricing information early)

Mojang and Bungie will get their dev kits later it's that simple (they'll still get them of course, but I'd guess not until at least the public reveal of the console)

 

[Ozriel]

Logic falls apart when you don't realize he is talking about sharing information of UNRELEASED consoles. Not released and in production.

Unreleased console prototypes and dev road maps are only shared with very close partners that can sign a NDA and non compet agreements.

Yes. I realize that. It’s clearly stated in the OP.

Bungie - for example - is also an important Multiplatform dev, so if this isn't a dealbreaker for their future multiplatform support, it shouldn’t be for Activision.

Specs are crystallized over a year to release, so it’s not an earth shattering task to scale launch games to platforms. They can provide broad performance levels if needed.

 

[elcapitano]

Well that's just common sense really

 

[Schmendrick]

Unreleased data.

That seems like...well, common sense.

 

[Whitecrow]

note: Gaming = PlayStation

You know what?
MS Game Studios have 40 studios under it's umbrella right now.
Do you see the great ammount of first party games?

Neither do I.

Remember Fable Legends and Lionhead studios closure? Remember Scalebound? And The Coalition revolutionary game?
The Halo fiasco?

And do you know anything about State of Decay 3 which was announced in 2020? or the New Perfect Dark?

MS is awful at managing studios and devs. It's incredibly hard for them to make good use of them. Literally the only 3 studios doing work are Playground, Turn10, and Asobo.
The others are literally trying to make a game and survive the process, which MS makes very hard for them.

So yeah, there's the obvioius possiblity of ruining Activision/Blizzard, they have a track record for that, and that would be bad for gaming.

 

[Xyphie]

This idea that if only MS had access to devkits in advance they'd be able to copy the "Sony secret sauce!1" is a laughable idea. These companies use off-the-shelf IP from the same company and have access to the same internal roadmaps from said company. If a forum dweller like me can get the general outline of what the PS5 SoC would be 2½ years before launch I guarantee you that Microsoft can too.

 

[Nankatsu]

I don't see the surprise here. It's a perfectly normal and realistic decision to make in case the deal is sealed.

 

[Hudo]

Sony closed as studios many as you claim. The games regressing are your opinion. Majority of their titles score at 80 and up, im sure that something Microsoft would love to have or buy. Look at the numbers Sony has always relied on third party titles. timed exclusives, PS only content? Like I said MS cant compete so they are buying the bar.

MS are competing on a different front that, ironically enough, Sony can't compete on (yet?). Which is their games-as-a-service stuff with Game Pass and all that ecosystem around it. That being said, Sony's recent reports show that most customers are actually paying quite a lot of money for digital transactions in service-games (hence their efforts in that area) and are buying fewer games in turn. So in that sense, Microsoft is actually competing quite well. It's just that in the traditional "Buy a game for $70" market, Microsoft have trouble. But that market seems to shrink.

And yes, you're right, the regression of Sony's first-party diversity may be my opinion. Still want a new MotorStorm, though. For me, Pacific Rift was on the level of Burnout 3 when it comes to action/arcade racers. And Burnout 3 is probably the best one ever.

 

[Hudo]

If the deal goes through maybe Sony will bring back some shooters of their own.

I'd love a new Resistance.

 

[midnightAI]

This idea that if only MS had access to devkits in advance they'd be able to copy the "Sony secret sauce!1" is a laughable idea. These companies use off-the-shelf IP from the same company and have access to the same internal roadmaps from said company. If a forum dweller like me can get the general outline of what the PS5 SoC would be 2½ years before launch I guarantee you that Microsoft can too.

A console is more than just a SoC. I'm sure both Sony and MS would love to have seen each others consoles 24 months before launch and I'm sure both would have possibly changed slightly.

But still, if you know exact specs you can just up your specs slightly without going overboard, you will still outdo the competition especially if you can then sell it at the same price or cheaper.

 

[RoboFu]

It’s not that they will never give activision a dev kit. It’s just they will not give them one or tell them any future console specs before release.

It’s a perfectly sane response.

 

[nikolino840]

What a stupid comment.

Please explain how PlayStation doing bad is good for gaming?

Go.

If ANY of the big 3 suddenly fail to compete, it is not good for gaming.

Call it a "shit take" all you want but you're just being dumb if you think that lol.

With the death of sega the world has not stopped

 

[nikolino840]

It’s not that they will never give activision a dev kit. It’s just they will not give them one or tell them any future console specs before release.

It’s a perfectly sane response.

Yeah but after sony (and users) crying that MS was lying about same date same version

 

[Godot25]

So what?

It's not like two of the Sony owned studios are working on games that are targeting current and future Xbox consoles (Sony San Diego and Bungie) right?

Also. Why he cares at all? Sony constantly claims that Microsoft will take away COD from PlayStation. So why would they even need to share PS6 specs with ABK studios post-merger?

 

[hyperbertha]

Played the normal cyberpunk, as recently as a few months back even. I played with both RT on and off. Don't misinterpret what I say though, it's not literally 0% difference, but it's absolutely negligible and not worth any framerate loss people might have with a bit weaker hardware.
I would prefer devs to put attention to good HDR implementation a billion times over spending any resources in RT.

So you don't know what overdrive is? Hdr is nothing compared to proper RT implementation. Look up CP2077 overdrive and dying light 2.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

wouldnt that apply to bungie too? Wouldnt they access to future Xbox consoles in the future if they want to make games for them?

This is shit is getting wild.

Bungie makes 1 game.

Activision is the largest independent publisher.

Please.

 

[Godot25]

Bungie makes 1 game.

Activision is the largest independent publisher.

Please.

But that does not matter at all in this context.
Bungie is making multiplatform games ie. Microsoft will send specs and development kit into the studio to optimise Marathon and future Bungie games for next-gen console
Sony San Diego is releasing MLB games every year so they literally need development kit for Xbox as soon as possible to prepare new MLB The Show when next-gen launches.

It is literally same in reverse. Sony will have info on Xbox's new hardware thanks to Bungie and SSD. Microsoft will have info on new PS hardware thanks to Mojang and ABK.
Size of companies is literally irrelevant. Because one devkit is enough to have all info you need.

 

[Fabieter]

Jim Ryan "no dev units for you"

Jim Ryan "see we are being mistreated because COD 29 modern ops ghost infinite total warfare isn't up to par at launch"

Ms wont give sony super early dev Kits either. Only close partner get that.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Sounds like a good plan really.

 

[Darsxx82]

He is right, and at the same time he cannot be more hypocritical. I hope SONY and the FTC can have better arguments because this is the easiest debatable. MLB, BUngie... it means that MS is in the same situation but does not make it a problem.

 

[Fabieter]

He is right, and at the same time he cannot be more hypocritical. I hope SONY and the FTC can have better arguments because this is the easiest debatable. MLB, BUngie... it means that MS is in the same situation but does not make it a problem.

This is about disclosing info early on for what its planned and what Partner want. Dont believe for a second that ms is fine sharing stuff with sony early on.

 

[FStubbs]

I thought this deal was dead already.

That being said, the highest selling PlayStation to date is PS2 (though PS5 will probably beat it). CoD wasn't a huge deal on that console so PlayStation would be just fine even if CoD left the platform - which it won't.

 

[Just_one]

Also, COD sucks.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

But that does not matter at all in this context.

Of course it matters.

There's a fundamental difference between 1 game not being optimized and having the largest release year after year be suboptimized for a console, something that has historically driven people to chose one device or another.

The size, reach, influence of activision cannot measure and any comparisons you attemp to bring are essentially meaningless in comparison.

 

[Godot25]

Of course it matters.

There's a fundamental difference between 1 game not being optimized and having the largest release year after year be suboptimized for a console, something that has historically driven people to chose one device or another.

The size, reach, influence of activision cannot measure and any comparisons you attemp to bring are essentially meaningless in comparison.

You are talking about XYZ game being optimised for hardware.
I'm talking about hardware company (Sony, Microsoft) that have to share their console specs with studio that is owned by competitor. Which is exactly what Ryan is talking about. And which is case for Bungie/Sony San Diego in same way as it is a case for ABK studios post-merger.

 

[Snake29]

But that does not matter at all in this context.
Bungie is making multiplatform games ie. Microsoft will send specs and development kit into the studio to optimise Marathon and future Bungie games for next-gen console
Sony San Diego is releasing MLB games every year so they literally need development kit for Xbox as soon as possible to prepare new MLB The Show when next-gen launches.

It is literally same in reverse. Sony will have info on Xbox's new hardware thanks to Bungie and SSD. Microsoft will have info on new PS hardware thanks to Mojang and ABK.
Size of companies is literally irrelevant. Because one devkit is enough to have all info you need.

That's not how things work. Minecraft has no native build for PS5 atm. They can do the same with these other titles you mentioned. But atm their won't be any next-gen Xbox console so it doesn't matter right now.

They don't have to share early data with these companies.

 

[Ar¢tos]

So what?

It's not like two of the Sony owned studios are working on games that are targeting current and future Xbox consoles (Sony San Diego and Bungie) right?

Also. Why he cares at all? Sony constantly claims that Microsoft will take away COD from PlayStation. So why would they even need to share PS6 specs with ABK studios post-merger?

Sony creates new consoles with the input of the big devs and lend them prototypes to test and give feedback. All this means is that ATK studios are out of that process and will get Devkits when all the 3rd party studios get them.

 

[Three]

That's actually quite easy, because we have a real-world example of what happens when PlayStation fails to compete. It's called the PlayStation 3. Microsoft took full advantage of Sony's litany of absolute blunders in the first half of that generation, and shoved Sony up against the nearest wall by their fucking throat. And what happened when it all went bad for PlayStation? Sony turned its first party studios into an industry leading powerhouse and fought back tooth and nail, giving us the legendary "It only does everything" push. PlayStation doing bad directly caused the second coming of PlayStation because, heading into the next generation, Microsoft was riding high on their arrogance and Sony were hungry to compete. The entire industry figured Microsoft had next-gen in the bag before it even started. Despite their successes in the late-PS3 gen, Sony as a whole was seriously bleeding. Desperate, Sony stepped back into the ring with the PS4: a cheap, powerful piece of kit that absolutely delivered. Hit after hit, smart decision after smart decision, win after win. Things going bad for PlayStation forced PlayStation to do better, so, things going bad for PlayStation seems to be a good thing for PlayStation, oddly enough. Sony doesn't need protecting - they need competition, or they'll end up making another PlayStation 3.

You can't just romanticise everything and call it good, and you can't just attribute Sony's good decisions to xbox. The PS4 wasn't good because Sony was "desperate". First party output wasn't great "because they had their throats against the wall".

The "it only does everything" push was at a time where they stopped it doing everything (removed PS2 BC, removed card readers, removed SACD, removed linux) because they had to drastically cut costs since they weren't selling as much third party software or consoles due to xbox. They were in the red practically the entire gen.

You failed to mention where MS and Xbox actually brought some good competition in terms of OS, achievements, parties, network, etc. With that came some bad too like no free online and mtx. The PS4 being good and their first party output had little to do with xbox though and certainly nothing to do with the "it only does everything" push. We need MS and xbox to keep prices in check and for innovation, not to remove third parties and cause harm.

 

[simpatico]

Spoiler alert: It's going to use a nearly identical chip to whatever AMD laptop silicon the Xbox uses.

 

[yurinka]

Mojang has ps5 kits though

The idea is that Sony wouldn't give Activision (plus I assume Mojang and the other MS studios) early access to the PS6 dev kits and specs years before the PS6 release. To avoid giving them ideas to copy stuff for the next Xbox.

I assume that after release, they'd give them access to the MS companies to allow them make games for PS6.

 

[Godot25]

That's not how things work. Minecraft has no native build for PS5 atm. They can do the same with these other titles you mentioned. But atm their won't be any next-gen Xbox console so it doesn't matter right now.

They don't have to share early data with these companies.

So, it's fine when Microsoft have to share Xbox specs with Sony San Diego, game that releases yearly
But somehow it's bad when Sony have to share PS specs with ABK studios about games that releases yearly.

I mean. Nobody is forcing Sony to do that in advance. They can send dev kits at same time as in case for other studios. It's risk/reward strategy.

 

[Godot25]

Sony creates new consoles with the input of the big devs and lend them prototypes to test and give feedback. All this means is that ATK studios are out of that process and will get Devkits when all the 3rd party studios get them.

And this is problem...why?

It's not like there is clusterfuck of other studios that can give you input about your next console.

And again. Sony was fearmongering for whole year that Microsoft will take away COD from PlayStation after merger. If they really believe that this is a reality of a situation, then this entire conversation is literally pointless since there will be no COD for PS6.

 

[Ar¢tos]

And this is problem...why?

It's not like there is clusterfuck of other studios that can give you input about your next console.

And again. Sony was fearmongering for whole year that Microsoft will take away COD from PlayStation after merger. If they really believe that this is a reality of a situation, then this entire conversation is literally pointless since there will be no COD for PS6.

It's not a problem, it's just logical. Its a statement from Sony, doesn't really require any answer. *shrug*

 

[Darsxx82]

This is about disclosing info early on for what its planned and what Partner want. Dont believe for a second that ms is fine sharing stuff with sony early on.

I know what it is, it is a situation that affects both but only one makes it a problem and makes it believe that it is the only one affected. It is as easy as SONY can look for other partners with whom to exchange secret information and technology.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

You are talking about XYZ game being optimised for hardware.
I'm talking about hardware company (Sony, Microsoft) that have to share their console specs with studio that is owned by competitor. Which is exactly what Ryan is talking about. And which is case for Bungie/Sony San Diego in same way as it is a case for ABK studios post-merger.

You fail to mention the fundamental difference of having Activision games unoptimized vs bungies due to their respective sizes.

It’s not the same, and you know it.

 

[FStubbs]

You are talking about XYZ game being optimised for hardware.
I'm talking about hardware company (Sony, Microsoft) that have to share their console specs with studio that is owned by competitor. Which is exactly what Ryan is talking about. And which is case for Bungie/Sony San Diego in same way as it is a case for ABK studios post-merger.

So when is Sony leaving Azure?

 

[Kurotri]

Offtopic but the language of law is so fascinating to me lol. "Do you see that language" I've never even heard of that expression before. Granted English is my second language but still.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

They started this venture before COD was even a thing so what's the point stopping now if the deal did happen?

 

[Gone]

Grasping at straws at this point..

Bungie is a Sony studio now and they make games for Xbox so what's the deal there?

 

[Snake29]

So, it's fine when Microsoft have to share Xbox specs with Sony San Diego, game that releases yearly
But somehow it's bad when Sony have to share PS specs with ABK studios about games that releases yearly.

I mean. Nobody is forcing Sony to do that in advance. They can send dev kits at same time as in case for other studios. It's risk/reward strategy.

This is such some xbox fanboys bullshit. Throwing words in others mouth. Are you tone deaf or something? It adds both ways, but were here talking about Sony not giving prototype information or devkits. Both ABK and Zenimax are publishers and not single devs. They both have a lot of studios under their umbrella.

No one is saying that Xbox should share information, nor is Jim saying Microsoft should share information.

 

[Ar¢tos]

.

This is such some xbox fanboys bullshit. Throwing words in others mouth. Are you tone deaf or something? It adds both ways, but were here talking about Sony not giving prototype information or devkits. Both ABK and Zenimax are publishers and not single devs. They both have a lot of studios under their umbrella.

No one is saying that Xbox should share information, nor is Jim saying Microsoft should share information.

Reading comprehension is a skill outside of the reach of many.

 

[Three]

Grasping at straws at this point..

Bungie is a Sony studio now and they make games for Xbox so what's the deal there?

The deal there is that MS probably don't give a shit and wouldn't send one there either. They will rely on BC and "boost mode" enhancements.

So, it's fine when Microsoft have to share Xbox specs with Sony San Diego, game that releases yearly
But somehow it's bad when Sony have to share PS specs with ABK studios about games that releases yearly.

I mean. Nobody is forcing Sony to do that in advance. They can send dev kits at same time as in case for other studios. It's risk/reward strategy.

Sony didn't buy a multiplatform third party developer known as Sony San Diego to make them first party. If MS want to share specs with Sony San Diego that's up to them.

 

[Unknown?]

Grasping at straws at this point..

Bungie is a Sony studio now and they make games for Xbox so what's the deal there?

Do you really believe Microsoft would give Bungie Next gen specs early? I don't.

 

[Fabieter]

I know what it is, it is a situation that affects both but only one makes it a problem and makes it believe that it is the only one affected. It is as easy as SONY can look for other partners with whom to exchange secret information and technology.

He got asked the question and he honestly answered it. You can't say that about everyone tho. He could also have lied or don't answer it directly like most other ceos do.

 

[Robb]

Makes sense.

 

[Darsxx82]

He got asked the question and he honestly answered it. You can't say that about everyone tho. He could also have lied or don't answer it directly like most other ceos do.

What?? It is a response made in one's own interest to regulators. It is NOT a random question in any interview with nothing of substance. He responds as an argument against the possible acquisition of ABK. He puts it as a reason for regulators to ban the deal. That is, he is complaining about a situation that MS also suffers as if it were only Playstation's own.

Is he being sincere? YES, as much as a hypocrite.

 

[FlyyGOD]

Why would they, if MS is directly tied to them, and a direct competitor? Seems like common sense.

Sony makes MLB the Show on Xbox. Does MS withhold info about new consoles with Sony?

 

[Games of Today]

I can't be the only one who can't wait for this deal to close or fail so we can stop hearing about it every damn day.

Also, COD sucks.

I'll honestly be happy about it getting off my playstation unless in some unprecedented almighty miracle from the heavens CoD puts out a golden egg equivalent to the original Modern Warfare or World at War, which of course will never, EVER, in holy creation will happen again.

I get sucked into playing the new games one way or another because of how much I love first person linear campaigns with highly detailed animations. But luckily I'm at the point where I'll never buy a new one with my own money again unless it's very cheap.

I got MW2 2022 as a birthday present and immediately regretted it after playing like halfway through the campaign. It's so much worse than the 2019 one it's not even funny.

 

[darrylgorn]

Maybe we should have a gaming business/industry subforum.