Support NeoGAF

[jamesinclair]

You guys are both overestimating the backlash against cross-party voting for weaker candidates and underestimating those that actually do it. It happens in every election where they're allowed, but it rarely gets far enough into a primary season to actually make a difference. It's a time-honored tradition and won't be a story longer than a day or two after Super Tuesday.

I voted in the GOP primary in 2008 because I had no opinion on obama/hillary

 

[Byakuya769]

So you think he is the weakest candidate since Dukakis but still think can overtake Obama in the general??

Aint that some shit?

 

[PhoenixDark]

So you think he is the weakest candidate since Dukakis but still think can overtake Obama in the general??

Yes for the reasons I stated previously. Even Dukakis could have beaten Bush if the economy crashed.

Gas prices, Iran/Israel, Eurozone. There are too many question marks and potential land mines here.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I still think Romney will win, but if he doesn't...I think someone will jump in the race. There's plenty of time for someone to qualify for enough ballots to quickly overtake Romney's lead before the convention.

Nearly all of the filing deadlines have passed. Scroll to the dates (it's a month old, so most of the cutoffs listed as not yet passed have by now):

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-coming-its-too-late-to-get-on-the-ballot.php

 

[Suikoguy]

Nearly all of the filing deadlines have passed. Scroll to the dates (it's a month old, so most of the cutoffs listed as not yet passed have by now):

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-coming-its-too-late-to-get-on-the-ballot.php

Yeah, it would take the delegates at the convention changing their vote to a new candidate for the gop to nominate someone not currently running. Certainly not impossible, but insane in modern times.

 

[Averon]

Wow. This Michigan primary is getting crazy. Democrats' cross party voting might give Santorum the win.

 

[Zzoram]

What time does the voting end and how soon after will they have the results?

 

[Measley]

Yes for the reasons I stated previously. Even Dukakis could have beaten Bush if the economy crashed.

There's a difference between the economy crashing while you're in office, and the economy having already crashed when you took office.

 

[stressboy]

There's a difference between the economy crashing while you're in office, and the economy having already crashed when you took office.

Most Republicans I know seem to be under the impression that the economy/deficit/debt was doing just fine before Obama took office.

 

[HyperionX]

There's a difference between the economy crashing while you're in office, and the economy having already crashed when you took office.

So the comparison is not Dukakis, it's Mondale.

 

[Averon]

Most Republicans I know seem to be under the impression that the economy/deficit/debt was doing just fine before Obama took office.

The previous 8 years before Obama took office didn't happen as far as they are concerned. Or at the very least everything was "going well" until that Marxist Muslim Obama took office.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Romney gets all the endorsements, has all the money, has economic experience, no personally scandals and still can't close the deal.

It is a really strange primary season, the strangest I know of in the last 30 years at least.

All of the Republican leadership and even most of the tea party leader types throw their support behind Romney, but the crowds want batshit insane Santorum. It is truly mind boggling and really shows what happens when low IQ, religious voting, cognitive dissonance, and purposeful ignorance meets bigotry, zealotry, and the ability to drive or be driven to a voting booth.

GOP, meet your fate after years of pandering to the hard right of anti-intellectualism, outcry-prone (imagine... the majority crying about persecution! What a complex!) people who vote against their own self-interests, and who willingly vote and are proponents of people who by all means espouse racist and otherwise bigoted views.

BLAH. I don't know what to do anymore. I dislike liberals a hell of a lot, but at least a lot of their beliefs are grounded in reality, science, and cause-and-effect. The far right is an embarrassment and a blight on the country that otherwise could entertain a hope at being or becoming the leader in science, math, medicine, mortality rates, life expectancy, quality of life, equality of opportunity, justice, and so on and so forth.

That is not to say that i do not enjoy and espouse many conservative principles, because I do, especially of the social variety (especially dealing with abortion), but I am willing to change, modify,and improve my positions when facts are presented my way, too many people refuse to first, consider the facts before them, and second, put their new-found intelligence to good use.

I almost want Santorum to get the nomination and pick some one asinine as his running mate like Paul Ryan so that the GOP can figuratively kick out the far-right insanity from the party and not use the "Romney was not a true conservative" excuse that will surely come once he loses. Then the party can hopefully return to the party of GHWB or Eisenhower. One can only hope, dream, pray, and campaign like hell.

 

[XMonkey]

I honestly think Santorum has a better shot of beating Obama because he could energize the GOP base and improve their voter turn out. Romney might get more independents but many evangelicals might stay home.

Their 'base' can't win them national elections anymore. It's not even a solid voting bloc anymore because moderate Republicans with a brain aren't going to vote for Santorum. There are serious cracks in the party right now and Obama would win in a landslide if he has to run against Santorum.

 

[Mike M]

I almost want Santorum to get the nomination and pick some one asinine as his running mate like Paul Ryan so that the GOP can figuratively kick out the far-right insanity from the party and not use the "Romney was not a true conservative" excuse that will surely come once he loses. Then the party can hopefully return to the party of GHWB or Eisenhower. One can only hope, dream, pray, and campaign like hell.

Idunno, seems like in the event of a Santorum nomination, the groundwork is already being laid for the "We still weren't conservative ENOUGH!" what with the recent focus on his senate voting record.

 

[benjipwns]

It illustrates the stupidity of the common "political spectrum" that Santorum and Ryan and Calvin Coolidge and Ron Paul and Gary Johnson and Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater and Newt Gingrich and Robert Taft and Grover Cleveland could all be "far-right insanity" depending on the day of the week.

 

[Brinbe]

Voting day! AZ seems locked up for Rom-bot, but really hoping this late surge is real, and Ricky takes MI, if only for continued hilarity.

 

[Miletius]

Idunno, seems like in the event of a Santorum nomination, the groundwork is already being laid for the "We still weren't conservative ENOUGH!" what with the recent focus on his senate voting record.

There will almost always be something 'wrong' with the purity of any nominee because their decisions are at least in part grounded by the reality of Washington, State politics, business sense or likewise. Romney is forcing that lens on Santorum because he wants the nomination but I think most realize that Santorum represents their views best, especially when it comes to social issues.

 

[benjipwns]

Santorum is the ultimate test of the Tea Party.

He fires all the buttons on killing darkies and rounding up the gays.

Yet he's entirely off on the debt, deficits, cutting spending, etc.

Even Romney is better on that front.

Just from people I talk to, they seem to be not entirely understanding Santorum he's mostly NOT ROMNEY with a side dish of NOT RON PAUL.

I mention how this got them McCain who they hated for years and well, it's different because well, it's different. And McCain is an AMERICAN HERO.

 

[Chumly]

Michigan robocall asking for democrats to vote for Rick Santorun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjgpOfT0FS8

LINK

A Santorum spokesman defended the attempt to turn out Reagan Democrats for Santorum, despite the fact that Santorum’s position on the bailout was the same as Romney’s.
“Any conservative message that reaches out, when it's about creating jobs for all Americans is going to be attractive to Reagan Democrats,” Santorum spokesman Hogan Gidley said in an interview, explaining the raionale for the robocalls. “We’re going to need those Reagan Democrats to win this election.”

So I thought it was just democrats trying to rock the vote but Santorum is actively campaigning for those democrats to support him. Can't blame the democrats for ruining the election today if Santorum is actively campaigning for them.

 

[benjipwns]

It's not "ruining" the election, Michigan takes pride in an open primary as a state that can "influence" the national debate for a candidate. We've had it open to change many many times but it's been rejected by both parties time and time again.

If Romney wants to court "liberals" and Santorum wants to court "wreckers" and Ron Paul wants to court "civil libertarians" and "anti-war" folk, that's good for everyone.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Romney gets all the endorsements, has all the money, has economic experience, no personally scandals and still can't close the deal.

It is a really strange primary season, the strangest I know of in the last 30 years at least.

All of the Republican leadership and even most of the tea party leader types throw their support behind Romney, but the crowds want batshit insane Santorum. It is truly mind boggling and really shows what happens when low IQ, religious voting, cognitive dissonance, and purposeful ignorance meets bigotry, zealotry, and the ability to drive or be driven to a voting booth.

GOP, meet your fate after years of pandering to the hard right of anti-intellectualism, outcry-prone (imagine... the majority crying about persecution! What a complex!) people who vote against their own self-interests, and who willingly vote and are proponents of people who by all means espouse racist and otherwise bigoted views.

BLAH. I don't know what to do anymore. I dislike liberals a hell of a lot, but at least a lot of their beliefs are grounded in reality, science, and cause-and-effect. The far right is an embarrassment and a blight on the country that otherwise could entertain a hope at being or becoming the leader in science, math, medicine, mortality rates, life expectancy, quality of life, equality of opportunity, justice, and so on and so forth.

That is not to say that i do not enjoy and espouse many conservative principles, because I do, especially of the social variety (especially dealing with abortion), but I am willing to change, modify,and improve my positions when facts are presented my way, too many people refuse to first, consider the facts before them, and second, put their new-found intelligence to good use.

I almost want Santorum to get the nomination and pick some one asinine as his running mate like Paul Ryan so that the GOP can figuratively kick out the far-right insanity from the party and not use the "Romney was not a true conservative" excuse that will surely come once he loses. Then the party can hopefully return to the party of GHWB or Eisenhower. One can only hope, dream, pray, and campaign like hell.

We don't like you either, don't worry.

 

[DasRaven]

BLAH. I don't know what to do anymore. I dislike liberals a hell of a lot, but at least a lot of their beliefs are grounded in reality, science, and cause-and-effect.

Pray tell why? And how does the collective alternative differ in any meaningful way that doesn't defy your preference for reality?

 

[Gr1mLock]

We don't like you either, don't worry.

what you said.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

BLAH. I don't know what to do anymore. I dislike liberals a hell of a lot, but at least a lot of their beliefs are grounded in reality, science, and cause-and-effect. The far right is an embarrassment and a blight on the country that otherwise could entertain a hope at being or becoming the leader in science, math, medicine, mortality rates, life expectancy, quality of life, equality of opportunity, justice, and so on and so forth.

That is not to say that i do not enjoy and espouse many conservative principles, because I do, especially of the social variety (especially dealing with abortion), but I am willing to change, modify,and improve my positions when facts are presented my way, too many people refuse to first, consider the facts before them, and second, put their new-found intelligence to good use.

I don't believe you.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

While reading that I almost thought we were witnessing a conversion before our own eyes.

 

[Farmboy]

I almost want Santorum to get the nomination and pick some one asinine as his running mate like Paul Ryan so that the GOP can figuratively kick out the far-right insanity from the party and not use the "Romney was not a true conservative" excuse that will surely come once he loses. Then the party can hopefully return to the party of GHWB or Eisenhower. One can only hope, dream, pray, and campaign like hell.

New York Magazine ran an interesting article on the Republican race so far, that had that same conclusion: that Santorum getting the nomination and then being crushed by Obama should be the preferred scenario of moderate Republicans and Democrats who realize that the US is better off with two credible parties rather than just one. Because such a scenario might allow the GOP to be rebuilt as, well, sane.

Nominating Romney and having him lose could result in the GOP becoming the party of Palin.

Another good article, on a completely different subject: Why Obama Needs to Change to Win (Rolling Stone).

 

[Wilsongt]

So, Jan Brewer skipped the White House supper, as did Nikki Haley from SC. Any other Republican governors decide not to go for silly reasons?

 

[speculawyer]

Romney gets all the endorsements, has all the money, has economic experience, no personally scandals and still can't close the deal.

It is a really strange primary season, the strangest I know of in the last 30 years at least.

All of the Republican leadership and even most of the tea party leader types throw their support behind Romney, but the crowds want batshit insane Santorum. It is truly mind boggling and really shows what happens when low IQ, religious voting, cognitive dissonance, and purposeful ignorance meets bigotry, zealotry, and the ability to drive or be driven to a voting booth.

GOP, meet your fate after years of pandering to the hard right of anti-intellectualism, outcry-prone (imagine... the majority crying about persecution! What a complex!) people who vote against their own self-interests, and who willingly vote and are proponents of people who by all means espouse racist and otherwise bigoted views.

BLAH. I don't know what to do anymore. I dislike liberals a hell of a lot, but at least a lot of their beliefs are grounded in reality, science, and cause-and-effect. The far right is an embarrassment and a blight on the country that otherwise could entertain a hope at being or becoming the leader in science, math, medicine, mortality rates, life expectancy, quality of life, equality of opportunity, justice, and so on and so forth.

That is not to say that i do not enjoy and espouse many conservative principles, because I do, especially of the social variety (especially dealing with abortion), but I am willing to change, modify,and improve my positions when facts are presented my way, too many people refuse to first, consider the facts before them, and second, put their new-found intelligence to good use.

I almost want Santorum to get the nomination and pick some one asinine as his running mate like Paul Ryan so that the GOP can figuratively kick out the far-right insanity from the party and not use the "Romney was not a true conservative" excuse that will surely come once he loses. Then the party can hopefully return to the party of GHWB or Eisenhower. One can only hope, dream, pray, and campaign like hell.

Well put. It is really bizarre. Something is definitely different.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Pray tell why? And how does the collective alternative differ in any meaningful way that doesn't defy your preference for reality?

I don't know, exactly. I don't even like other conservatives. Honestly, people who swing too far right or left (but especially left, due to my religious beliefs) bother me for some reason. There is a reason why I am shocked any time I agree with empty vessel or A27 Starwolf. People with extreme beliefs one way or the other just irk me personally.

Invisible-Insane, I don't dislike you, or most other left-leaning or even strong-left leaning people on this board like Plinko, Puddles, and so on, even if I rarely ever agree with them or their "outrage" at anything the GOP does. But there are a few posters that I could almost skip entirely and not miss for a second.

 

[RDreamer]

I almost want Santorum to get the nomination and pick some one asinine as his running mate like Paul Ryan so that the GOP can figuratively kick out the far-right insanity from the party and not use the "Romney was not a true conservative" excuse that will surely come once he loses. Then the party can hopefully return to the party of GHWB or Eisenhower. One can only hope, dream, pray, and campaign like hell.

I've been saying this for a while. Last time I said it in this thread I think someone else disagreed and thought if Romney won the nomination and then lost that's when the GOP would go hard right, nominate someone that's way too far out there and then crash and burn and have to rebuild. Thing is that I really don't think they'll ever find someone harder right than Santorum. Now's absolutely the time to burn the party to the crowd and hope for something new and better, so we get some actual political discourse back in this country.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Invisible-Insane, I don't dislike you, or most other left-leaning or even strong-left leaning people on this board like Plinko, Puddles, and so on

So you don't dislike liberals a hell of a lot, or you did before you didn't?

 

[thekad]

Phoenix Dark's vote for Santorum will be the deciding vote in Michigan, catapulting him into the Republican nomination and locking up the general for Obama.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I don't believe you.

About what? That I modify my beliefs based on the scientific fact presented, or that I hold conservative beliefs?

While reading that I almost thought we were witnessing a conversion before our own eyes.

Come on, now, let's not get crazy. It is the incompetence of the GOP voting bloc and some of their strange ideals that gets my blood boiling, not the entirety of conservative principles.

So you don't dislike liberals a hell of a lot, or you did before you didn't?

I do dislike liberals a hell of a lot, as a group. I don't dislike people I have active discourse with. There are a few examples, though, in which this is not the case. Your posts, for example, cause my eyes to roll in the back of my head oftentimes, but I don't let it be known. PantherLotus and Measley are another. On the other hand, you have incredibly grounded and fair posters like speculawyer (with whom I actually disagree many times), Byakuyaka, Salvador.Hardin, and so on that are always interesting to read and bring positive discussion to the table.

The difference between the first group and the last is the amount of back-slapping, self-righteous snorts, and manufactured outrage is apparent in many of the former's posts and not included in the latter's.

 

[Oblivion]

BLAH. I don't know what to do anymore. I dislike liberals a hell of a lot, but at least a lot of their beliefs are grounded in reality, science, and cause-and-effect. The far right is an embarrassment and a blight on the country that otherwise could entertain a hope at being or becoming the leader in science, math, medicine, mortality rates, life expectancy, quality of life, equality of opportunity, justice, and so on and so forth.

I think you meant to say "Black".

 

[Manmademan]

I think you meant to say "Black".

Alteredbeast doesn't care about Blah people

 

[AlteredBeast]

I think you meant to say "Black".

Now THAT is good stuff!

Why can't everyone post funny stuff like this? Even Cyan pops in here every once in a while just to make a snarky comment or funny edit on a post.

 

[Mercury Fred]

I do dislike liberals a hell of a lot, as a group. I don't dislike people I have active discourse with. There are a few examples, though, in which this is not the case. Your posts, for example, cause my eyes to roll in the back of my head oftentimes, but I don't let it be known. PantherLotus and Measley are another. On the other hand, you have incredibly grounded and fair posters like speculawyer (with whom I actually disagree many times), Byakuyaka, Salvador.Hardin, and so on that are always interesting to read and bring positive discussion to the table.

The difference between the first group and the last is the amount of back-slapping, self-righteous snorts, and manufactured outrage is apparent in many of the former's posts and not included in the latter's.

Huh. Kind of sounds like you're clinging to a sad and sinking ship out of a sense of personal pride (isn't that some sort of sin, btw?) or just plain 'ol grudge holding.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Huh. Kind of sounds like you're clinging to a sad and sinking ship out of a sense of personal pride (isn't that some sort of sin, btw?) or just plain 'ol grudge holding.

Could be a bit of both, but although I identify myself as conservative, I am embarrassed to say, in this political climate, that I am a registered Republican. I just hope I can go out and represent with pride if the party ever regains some level of decency. I wouldn't do have the insane stuff the party has done in the last 4 years, though.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Could be a bit of both, but although I identify myself as conservative, I am embarrassed to say, in this political climate, that I am a registered Republican. I just hope I can go out and represent with pride if the party ever regains some level of decency. I wouldn't do have the insane stuff the party has done in the last 4 years, though.

Are you active in politics now? If you really imagine having pride in the party why not go out and work for it to make the sort of change you'd like to see.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I do dislike liberals a hell of a lot, as a group. I don't dislike people I have active discourse with. There are a few examples, though, in which this is not the case. Your posts, for example, cause my eyes to roll in the back of my head oftentimes, but I don't let it be known

It's alright, I like that I'm the kind of liberal you dislike.

I still read your posts, even though I can never tell when you're being genuine, playing devil's advocate, or just spinning your wheels.

 

[Plinko]

New York Magazine ran an interesting article on the Republican race so far, that had that same conclusion: that Santorum getting the nomination and then being crushed by Obama should be the preferred scenario of moderate Republicans and Democrats who realize that the US is better off with two credible parties rather than just one. Because such a scenario might allow the GOP to be rebuilt as, well, sane.

Nominating Romney and having him lose could result in the GOP becoming the party of Palin.

Another good article, on a completely different subject: Why Obama Needs to Change to Win (Rolling Stone).

Nominating Romney will just delay the process. The GOP rebuild IS coming. It has to if they want to stay relevant.

 

[DasRaven]

I do dislike liberals a hell of a lot, as a group.

Right, what I was asking was why you dislike them as a group.

What do they do or believe that causes or sustains your dislike? Conversely, what do the group opposite them, I assume you'd call them "conservatives," do or believe that causes or sustains your appreciation?

 

[benjipwns]

You're running up into the problem here.

If you ask me "why do you dislike 'liberals' as a group" then I'm forced to say it's because they want to run everyones lives with a central state.

And then you get all "oh nooo we don't want that and we want this" and then conservatives come in and say "but you want blah blah blah" and then we watch cat videos.

 

[Miletius]

Nominating Romney will just delay the process. The GOP rebuild IS coming. It has to if they want to stay relevant.

The article assumes the rebuild is going to occur as the GOP refashions itself to it's moderate champions (Jeb Bush, Christie, Daniels) and the like. Personally I think that the party will bend more towards Libertarianism, at least socially, and start to attract younger voters who are interested in personal freedoms.

Gonna be an awkward time for Seniors and Evangelicals if/when that happens though.

 

[benjipwns]

Personally I think that the party will bend more towards Libertarianism, at least socially, and start to attract younger voters who are interested in personal freedoms.

And here's our laugh of the day.

 

[markatisu]

Nominating Romney will just delay the process. The GOP rebuild IS coming. It has to if they want to stay relevant.

Yeah their current course will just mean the reboot is coming around 2016 or 2018 instead of over the next 2 years if they nominated Santorum

And the news coverage/narrative is just great, I watched some news this morning (different channels) and all basically said the same thing. If Romney cannot win out big in Michigan where has all the money, all the notoriety/heritage, then he does not deserve to be in the general where actual harder states will be in play.

They are even setting up for when Santorum loses the big cities but takes the delegates due to the volume of other congressional districts outside of the major areas. If Rick is able to pull that off and then win in Ohio and maybe some Southern states this thing will go all the way into the summer (especially if Gingrinch finally decides to drop out).

Today could be the beginning of Romney's worst nightmare, though maybe that is a blessing since to now he has basically acted as if the crown was his and it was all just a fun aside.

 

[Aaron Strife]

...everything that passes off as "joke" or "funny" by a conservative is at least a little bit offensive. Nothing new here I guess.

The problem with most conservative comedy is that they're locked into the idea of being "right" so much that they don't have a sense of irony about themselves. Plenty of left-leaning comedians incorporate self-deprecating humor.

Oh and all the jokes basically boil down to "Obama believes something that I disagree with! Isn't that HILARIOUS!?" and Michelle Obama eating chicken wings. That's ignoring the Limbaugh-esque humor where they like call teenage Chelsea Clinton ugly and then have to be like "IT'S A JOKE JEEZ I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WERE OFFENDED BY THAT"

 

[Miletius]

And here's our laugh of the day.

Really? There's already ample evidence that this is the direction the party ought to take in the long term to stay relevant. I tend to believe that power players on both sides of the fence are not completely irrational actors. In the end they will do what's best to ensure the long term success of their legacy.

 

[effzee]

Newt Gingrich To Afghanistan: 'Figure Out How To Live Your Own Miserable Life'

POS asshole was probably getting off on the thought of going to war in Afghanistan and now, just like before, wants to leave the country in terrible shape. Not only is he a terrible historian he is a terrible human being.

 

[Tim-E]

The problem with most conservative comedy is that they're locked into the idea of being "right" so much that they don't have a sense of irony about themselves. Plenty of left-leaning comedians incorporate self-deprecating humor.

Oh and all the jokes basically boil down to "Obama believes something that I disagree with! Isn't that HILARIOUS!?" and Michelle Obama eating chicken wings. That's ignoring the Limbaugh-esque humor where they like call Chelsea Clinton a dog and then have to be like "IT'S A JOKE JEEZ I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WERE OFFENDED BY THAT"

Michelle Obama at Target? LOLz


PS I wish more conservatives were like AB and hope the GOP heads into the direction he talks about. I don't see myself ever voting for a republican, but a thoughtful discourse between two sides of an argument is crucial to making sure this country doesn't head into the shitter.