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[Krauser Kat]

if republicans can take the social conservative part of the party out to the shed and shoot it they might have a chance in the next couple decades as the young internet age grows up.

Afghanistan has ruined any good will the american public had with them. We slightly messed up, and they riot and kill our own because of some wood pulp bound by cardboard and leather.

 

[benjipwns]

Yeah their current course will just mean the reboot is coming around 2016 or 2018 instead of over the next 2 years if they nominated Santorum

Come on, GAF, you guys need to read more Republican sites like NRO and stuff. Stop cycling through TPM and Rachel Maddow if this is what you think the GOP thinks.

I can look at my shelf right now and see enough books from the 1996-2000 period that defined the next GOP decade. It was about CHRISTIANS, BUSINESS, and then after 9/11 SECURITY plus the Old Guard Republican Libertarian/Small Government/Smart Government.

You think this fracture is going to break that up? CHRISTIANS = Santorum, BUSINESS/SMART = Romney, there's no 9/11 candidate so they're flopping back and forth and then you have the Tea Party. And Paul is picking off enough of the last group that nobody can gain a strong share.

They went through this same shit in 1996. Bush came along, unified the groups, we got 9/11 which solidified him, and then it broke back up when they had to pick between McCain (traitor), Rudy (LIBERUL) and Romney (MORMON).

The Democrats have been fighting the same wars over their sections since 1972 but they recently started going after "winners" and got Kerry and Obama.

It's a system where a third party should dominate but the penalties are too great.

Really? There's already ample evidence that this is the direction the party ought to take in the long term to stay relevant. I tend to believe that power players on both sides of the fence are not completely irrational actors. In the end they will do what's best to ensure the long term success of their legacy.

Yes, really. You're confusing the direction the party should take and the direction the party will take. The GOP establishment despises libertarianism and would sooner join the Democrats than actually peel back the power base that engorges it.

There's this notion that political parties are smart, they're not. They cling to vestiges of power until they are gone. This is why the Whigs got blindsided entirely by abolition.

 

[DasRaven]

You're running up into the problem here.

If you ask me "why do you dislike 'liberals' as a group" then I'm forced to say it's because they want to run everyones lives with a central state.

And then you get all "oh nooo we don't want that and we want this" and then conservatives come in and say "but you want blah blah blah" and then we watch cat videos.

But, he indicated that he valued fact-based analysis and "reality." So I suspect that there are fact-based, realistic, arguments behind his indicated dislike and appreciation not passion-based ones.

Sure, someone might take this as an opening to criticize his reasoning or mine. But if you can't communicate why you have an opinion, do you really have one?

 

[BotoxAgent]

The problem with most conservative comedy is that they're locked into the idea of being "right" so much that they don't have a sense of irony about themselves. Plenty of left-leaning comedians incorporate self-deprecating humor.

Oh and all the jokes basically boil down to "Obama believes something that I disagree with! Isn't that HILARIOUS!?" and Michelle Obama eating chicken wings. That's ignoring the Limbaugh-esque humor where they like call teenage Chelsea Clinton ugly and then have to be like "IT'S A JOKE JEEZ I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WERE OFFENDED BY THAT"

Remember when they tried to do their own version of Daily Show? LMAO That shit was painful to watch. This whole comedy and entertainment thing are a little bit hard for them.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Romney, Allies Spent $2 Million On TV In Michigan Over Last Week

In the week leading up to the Michigan primary Tuesday, Mitt Romney and his allies -- mainly pro-Romney Super PAC Restore Our Future -- spent $2 million on TV advertisements. Romney also held about a dozen events around the state in the last week as he tried to fend off Rick Santorum.​

The real reason Romney caught up.

####

Encouraging data released today. Every single regional Fed manufacturing survey was up over January, and by good margins, which is a good sign for the industrial production report, and manufacturing employment.

Consumer confidence jumped in February as well, with this nugget buried in it:

February has been a very strong month for the jobs market, indicated by sizable declines in jobless claims and by today's consumer confidence report that shows a big decline in those describing jobs as hard to get, down to 38.7 percent vs January's 43.3 percent. February is the first reading below 40 percent since November 2008.

Another data point indicating the February jobs report might be a good one.

I'm increasingly optimistic that February and March will see strong employment reports.

 

[PantherLotus]

I do dislike liberals a hell of a lot, as a group. I don't dislike people I have active discourse with. There are a few examples, though, in which this is not the case. Your posts, for example, cause my eyes to roll in the back of my head oftentimes, but I don't let it be known. PantherLotus and Measley are another. On the other hand, you have incredibly grounded and fair posters like speculawyer (with whom I actually disagree many times), Byakuyaka, Salvador.Hardin, and so on that are always interesting to read and bring positive discussion to the table.

The difference between the first group and the last is the amount of back-slapping, self-righteous snorts, and manufactured outrage is apparent in many of the former's posts and not included in the latter's.

Wait wait, I can't tell if my posts cause your eyes to roll back into your head or if I'm an incredibly fair and awesome poster, which is what I think you meant.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I don't really agree with the liberal talking point that money is the reason Romney 'caught up.' 2 million is a pittance of money for television ad buys. Romney is the only person capable of raising money and has been spending it.

These polling numbers we have been seeing in these primary elections are not 'hard' numbers. Quite often they represent a small fraction of the voting electorate with many people stating that their support is weak or they haven't decided yet. So, these shifts just represent people finally making up their minds as election day approaches. Not some fundamental shift in sentiment because of whatever voodoo magic Romeny is pushing through ad buys.

Wait wait, I can't tell if my posts cause your eyes to roll back into your head or if I'm an incredibly fair and awesome poster, which is what I think you meant.

Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

PS I wish more conservatives were like AB and hope the GOP heads into the direction he talks about. I don't see myself ever voting for a republican, but a thoughtful discourse between two sides of an argument is crucial to making sure this country doesn't head into the shitter.

Republicans do not win elections with thoughtful discourse. They are never changing their stripes.

If the country does not go into the shitter, it's because we have limited their influence in government. They will keep coming at you with that same bad idea over and over again, they will repackage it and resell it however many times it takes.

 

[PantherLotus]

Right, but were those minds finally made up in a vacuum?

 

[benjipwns]

But, he indicated that he valued fact-based analysis and "reality." So I suspect that there are fact-based, realistic, arguments behind his indicated dislike and appreciation not passion-based ones.

Sure, someone might take this as an opening to criticize his reasoning or mine. But if you can't communicate why you have an opinion, do you really have one?

No, no, no, you can't ever accept that someone is offering you facts or "reality."

The real goal is to deconstruct THEIR "reality" and facts. That's where the fun is.

Throwing your "facts" and "reality" at them just gets nowhere as they can dismiss it as from the LIBRUAL MEDIA.

Spoiler

In other words, you can't, you just dick along until you lose interest.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I don't really agree with the liberal talking point that money is the reason Romney 'caught up.' 2 million is a pittance of money for television ad buys. Romney is the only person capable of raising money and has been spending it.

Liberal talking point? Really? C'mon, knock that shit off.

2 million is what was dropped in the last week alone, it has been ongoing for several. We saw the effect this had in Florida. It's been apparent for a while now that Romney is a weak candidate, buoyed by his ability to, as you said, raise and spend money. That's not a talking point, it's an obvious observation about the race. While his opponents tend to do themselves no favors, it's not some weird coincidence that Romney has repeatedly caught up just as his campaign and PAC rain cash on a state.

 

[benjipwns]

I don't really agree with the liberal talking point that money is the reason Romney 'caught up.' 2 million is a pittance of money for television ad buys. Romney is the only person capable of raising money and has been spending it.

Wait, they're arguing this? Romney "caught up" because of the WIN factor.

It's all about WIN.

WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN.

Money only matters if Romney can convince the GOP HE CAN WIN.

WIN WIN WIN

DID I MENTION WIN.

 

[PantherLotus]

Remember, common wisdom is now a liberal talking point!

 

[Tim-E]

Republicans do not win elections with thoughtful discourse. They are never changing their stripes.

If the country does not go into the shitter, it's because we have limited their influence in government. They will keep coming at you with that same bad idea over and over again, they will repackage it and resell it however many times it takes.

Elections in the United States aren't really won with thoughtful discourse, anyway. They're won with bullet points, but that's beside the point. Like I said, I will likely never vote for a republican as I don't really agree with any aspect of conservatism, but it would be great for the country as a whole if they weren't so staunchly anti-science, anti-marriage equality, anti-UHC, etc.

 

[Zzoram]

Romney won't win because he has a ~100 point plan to fix the country, and that's too many things to read for the electorate.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Remember, common wisdom is now a liberal talking point!

Reality has a liberal bias, etc.

Just saw this roll by on Twitter. Romney outraged at Operation Hilarity, after boasting of doing the same thing in MA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHqzoxuEHc

 

[benjipwns]

Romney won't win because he has a ~100 point plan to fix the country, and that's too many things to read for the electorate.

This is very true if you look at Michigan in 2006 as the only important data point.

DeVos offered like 80 pages of detailed plans.
Granholm had like 10 of vague gibberish.

 

[Tim-E]

Romney won't win because he has a ~100 point plan to fix the country, and that's too many things to read for the electorate.

Yep. You need to essentially be able to boil why you should be elected down into a tight power point presentation to win an election.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

What are the odds of GE debates with powerpoint slides?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHqzoxuEHc

SO. GOOD.

Edit: The ending is hilarious. I'm... I just can't believe how good this is. Maybe it's been a boring day.

 

[speculawyer]

There's this notion that political parties are smart, they're not. They cling to vestiges of power until they are gone. This is why the Whigs got blindsided entirely by abolition.

Yeah, the GOP is working toward irrelevancy largely on gay rights and immigration.

And one of their biggest draws in 'cut taxes' . . . but when you have a guy making 20 million a year paying 13.9% in taxes and we run $1 Trillion deficits, there just is no more room to cut taxes . . . we've gone too far. They also like to TALK ABOUT cutting government . . . but when given the chance to do so such as in 2000 to 2006 when they held every branch of government . . . they don't actually do it.

 

[Manmademan]

Yep. You need to be able to boil why you should be elected down into a tight power point presentation to win an election.

There's a reason "9-9-9" took off, after all

 

[Miletius]

Yep. You need to essentially be able to boil why you should be elected down into a tight power point presentation to win an election.

They should at least upgrade to Presenter or Captivate, for crying out loud.

 

[Tim-E]

SO. GOOD.

LOL
This dude needs a team of people to go through everything he has ever said before he says something in public to make sure he hasn't contradicted it in the past.

 

[Zzoram]

Yeah, the GOP is working toward irrelevancy largely on gay rights and immigration.

And one of their biggest draws in 'cut taxes' . . . but when you have a guy making 20 million a year paying 13.9% in taxes and we run $1 Trillion deficits, there just is no more room to cut taxes . . . we've gone too far. They also like to TALK ABOUT cutting government . . . but when given the chance to do so such as in 2000 to 2006 when they held every branch of government . . . they don't actually do it.

Yup. Republicans have NEVER been about small government, only DIFFERENT government. All the money they cut from social programs just goes towards the military, prisons, and tax cuts or loop holes for the richest people and the biggest corporations.

Government health care or unemployment benefits is EVIL. More mega prisons, regulating sex, and Shell paying 0% tax is "small government".

 

[speculawyer]

Reality has a liberal bias, etc.

Just saw this roll by on Twitter. Romney outraged at Operation Hilarity, after boasting of doing the same thing in MA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHqzoxuEHc

I'm really starting to wonder if anyone can find any topic where Romney has NOT flip-flopped. He flip-flops on EVERYTHING.

 

[markatisu]

Wait, they're arguing this? Romney "caught up" because of the WIN factor.

It's all about WIN.

WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN WIN.

Money only matters if Romney can convince the GOP HE CAN WIN.

WIN WIN WIN

DID I MENTION WIN.

So far he is not doing that grand a job or I think we would not be discussing Michigan lol

I'm really starting to wonder if anyone can find any topic where Romney has NOT flip-flopped. He flip-flops on EVERYTHING.

Its not possible, the man has talked out of both sides of his mouth his entire career. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the General because most of his contradictions are on video so 3-5 months of him basically agreeing to everything on Earth is going to cause some issues.

 

[Tim-E]

I remember when I used to be worried about facing Romney in the GE.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Unfortunately he can always claim it's only fair game when you're trying to stick it to the other team, and that it's not in your own party's best interest to do what Rick is doing. Still, hilarious.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Elections in the United States aren't really won with thoughtful discourse, anyway. They're won with bullet points

I wouldn't say bullet points, but you are right that thoughtful discourse isn't the horse that drives the cart. It is, however, detrimental for Republicans.

...it would be great for the country as a whole if they weren't so staunchly anti-science, anti-marriage equality, anti-UHC, etc.

But those are the positions that give them advantage, most of which are essential wedge issues. It would be a good thing if Republicans were less Republican-ey, I agree. I don't mean to pick on your take, but discourse is only thoughtful when grounded in reality.

 

[benjipwns]

Yeah, the GOP is working toward irrelevancy largely on gay rights and immigration.

And one of their biggest draws in 'cut taxes' . . . but when you have a guy making 20 million a year paying 13.9% in taxes and we run $1 Trillion deficits, there just is no more room to cut taxes . . . we've gone too far. They also like to TALK ABOUT cutting government . . . but when given the chance to do so such as in 2000 to 2006 when they held every branch of government . . . they don't actually do it.

Yup. Republicans have NEVER been about small government, only DIFFERENT government. All the money they cut from social programs just goes towards the military, prisons, and tax cuts or loop holes for the richest people and the biggest corporations.

This AND This.

The Republicans have figured out their niche and that's TAX CUTS, ANTI-GAYS, and ANTI-MEXICANS.

The Democrats are trying to straddle all three of these because they realize the GOP has figured it out.

Libertarians are not going to live in the GOP because it's well, only 1/3. And we aren't going to live in the Democrats either because lol go fuck yourselves.

 

[Zzoram]

Reality has a liberal bias, etc.

Just saw this roll by on Twitter. Romney outraged at Operation Hilarity, after boasting of doing the same thing in MA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHqzoxuEHc

Obama's entire election campaign just needs to be clips like these. He doesn't even have to say a word and people will stay home rather than vote for Romney.

 

[Tim-E]

But those are the positions that give them advantage, most of which are essential wedge issues. It would be a good thing if Republicans were less Republican-ey, I agree. I don't mean to pick on your take, but discourse is only thoughtful when grounded in reality.

Fair enough. A guy can dream, can't he?

 

[Zzoram]

Republicans being the white people party isn't going to work in 20 years when white people fall below 50% of the population.

They need to stop with their Mexicans-are-invading scare tactics and portraying black people as criminals and welfare queens while supporting the Confederates proudly or America is going to become a 1 party nation.

 

[Mike M]

I'm really starting to wonder if anyone can find any topic where Romney has NOT flip-flopped. He flip-flops on EVERYTHING.

There was actually a Doonesbury comic about that back in '08 about how he has remained steadfast and unwavering in his desire to be president (And that his name was now Mike).

Can never find it when it occurs to me to look for it...

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I'm really starting to wonder if anyone can find any topic where Romney has NOT flip-flopped. He flip-flops on EVERYTHING.

Romney doesn't have any vision. His campaign basically seems to be built on the concept of trying to appease everyone by going through standard talking points for the audience.

It would be scary if that worked in the general election.

 

[RobotMafia]

Reality has a liberal bias, etc.

Just saw this roll by on Twitter. Romney outraged at Operation Hilarity, after boasting of doing the same thing in MA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHqzoxuEHc

Oh Romney you stupid douche.

 

[Tim-E]

Romney doesn't have any vision. His campaign basically seems to be built on the concept of trying to appease everyone by going through standard talking points for the audience.

It would be scary if that worked in the general election.

I don't think it will. It's absurd how much flip flop ammunition the Obama campaign has to use against him.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Reality has a liberal bias, etc.

Just saw this roll by on Twitter. Romney outraged at Operation Hilarity, after boasting of doing the same thing in MA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHqzoxuEHc

Obama can just stay home and drink tea while his campaign airs ads like these.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Liberal talking point? Really? C'mon, knock that shit off.

No. The reality is that 2 million dollars is not a lot in a statewide political campaign.

In fact, it's the same amount Mitt spent in 2008.

In 2008, Obama spent 4.4 million dollars in the hotly-contested Ohio race. A race that was just as critical to him as Michigan is to Romney this season.

2 million is what was dropped in the last week alone, it has been ongoing for several. We saw the effect this had in Florida. It's been apparent for a while now that Romney is a weak candidate, buoyed by his ability to, as you said, raise and spend money. That's not a talking point, it's an obvious observation about the race. While his opponents tend to do themselves no favors, it's not some weird coincidence that Romney has repeatedly caught up just as his campaign and PAC rain cash on a state.

When exactly was the money supposed to be spent, 3 weeks ago? Of course it was spent last week.

Money doesn't insure winning in politics. So, in the end, it still comes down to the fact that people feel Romney has a better chance of winning against Obama in November. Especially given all the uneasiness that Santorum has been instilling with his theocratic remarks. That's what is pushing people towards him. Him spending money is just incidental.

But, it IS a liberal talking point because it's what you want to focus on to create the narrative that he is just a rich guy attempting to buy an election. Don't try to run away from that.

 

[benjipwns]

But, it IS a liberal talking point because it's what you want to focus on to create the narrative that he is just a rich guy attempting to buy an election. Don't try to run away from that.

And it doesn't work, and hasn't ever worked. Rich dudes dropping money doesn't win them any more than anyone else UNTIL you filter out incumbents who are the ultimate rich dudes as the rules are stacked in their favor.

 

[GhaleonEB]

No. The reality is that 2 million dollars is not a lot in a statewide political campaign.

It's a lot to be spent on TV ad time in a single week. More importantly, it's important compared to how much his rivals spent; for a few weeks he was outspending Santorum by something like 40:1. Yes, this matters.

In fact, it's the same amount Mitt spent in 2008.

Yes. And....?

In 2008, Obama spent 4.4 million dollars in the hotly-contested Ohio race. A race that was just as critical to him as Michigan is to Romney this season.

Yes. And I agree that the money spent mattered; he was also combating a much better funded opponent. I'm not really sure what point you are making here.

Money doesn't insure winning in politics.

I didn't say this.

So, in the end, it still comes down to the fact that people feel Romney has a better chance of winning against Obama in November.

Polls do not support this any longer. Santorum hit parity with Romney.

But, it IS a liberal talking point because it's what you want to focus on to create the narrative that he is just a rich guy attempting to buy an election. Don't try to run away from that.

Not only is that not the "liberal talking point", but it's also idiotic bullshit. Don't try to fling that at me. It's not something I've said, and is not something I'm arguing.

Your suggestion that Romney's margin when it comes to ads does not matter. I think that's a poor assertion in the face of available evidence. That's it. You can disagree, but the BS you are throwing out about talking points and then pointing that at me is incorrect. And frankly, uncalled for.

 

[PantherLotus]

No. The reality is that 2 million dollars is not a lot in a statewide political campaign.

In fact, it's the same amount Mitt spent in 2008.

In 2008, Obama spent 4.4 million dollars in the hotly-contested Ohio race. A race that was just as critical to him as Michigan is to Romney this season.



When exactly was the money supposed to be spent, 3 weeks ago? Of course it was spent last week.

Money doesn't insure winning in politics. So, in the end, it still comes down to the fact that people feel Romney has a better chance of winning against Obama in November. Especially given all the uneasiness that Santorum has been instilling with his theocratic remarks. That's what is pushing people towards him. Him spending money is just incidental.

But, it IS a liberal talking point because it's what you want to focus on to create the narrative that he is just a rich guy attempting to buy an election. Don't try to run away from that.

That's not the narrative -- the narrative is that his spending will destroy Santorum, as it destroyed Gingrinch and everyone else. What's that have to do with being a one-percenter using his wealth?

And you're clearly not conflating Romney's campaign donations of the hundred-thousand variety with Obama's campaign donations of the five-dollar variety...right?



Just think, right now...right here...somewhere, there's a closet conservative masquerading as an independent that is rolling his eyes at this post.

 

[GhaleonEB]

gah, DP

 

[markatisu]

I don't think it will. It's absurd how much flip flop ammunition the Obama campaign has to use against him.

 

[mj1108]

Yeah, the GOP is working toward irrelevancy largely on gay rights and immigration.

And one of their biggest draws in 'cut taxes' . . . but when you have a guy making 20 million a year paying 13.9% in taxes and we run $1 Trillion deficits, there just is no more room to cut taxes . . . we've gone too far. They also like to TALK ABOUT cutting government . . . but when given the chance to do so such as in 2000 to 2006 when they held every branch of government . . . they don't actually do it.

The way the GOP is going, they're working towards complete irrelevancy in America.

 

[TacticalFox88]

This might be one of the greatest political cartoons of all time. Absolutely Amazing.

 

[Stinkles]

Republicans being the white people party isn't going to work in 20 years when white people fall below 50% of the population.

They need to stop with their Mexicans-are-invading scare tactics and portraying black people as criminals and welfare queens while supporting the Confederates proudly or America is going to become a 1 party nation.

I wish some of gaf's more idiotic mouth breathers would realize this. We NEED two functioning parties to create at least some semblance of balance. The republican party going full retard may be good for my side, but it has appalling consequences for democracy.

 

[ToxicAdam]

It's a lot to be spent on TV ad time in a single week. More importantly, it's important compared to how much his rivals spent; for a few weeks he was outspending Santorum by something like 40:1. Yes, this matters.

Lots of editing going on in this post, hard for me to keep up.

But, this spending difference is no different than it has been all campaign. Again, Romney can raise the money his opponents can't. So, he shouldn't be chastized because he is spending it.

Yes. And....?

I should hold you to your other edit, but I won't.

Yes. And I agree that the money spent mattered; he was also combating a much better funded opponent. I'm not really sure what point you are making here.

Are you kidding me? Obama was killing Hillary in fundraising at that point.

You are spinning out of control now.

Not only is that not the "liberal talking point", but it's also idiotic bullshit. Don't try to fling that at me. It's not something I've said, and is not something I'm arguing.

Your suggestion that Romney's margin when it comes to ads does not matter. I think that's a poor assertion in the face of available evidence. That's it. Do deny this is to deny reality.

You're right. Your post was idiotic bullshit. I'm done here.

Keep spinning the narrative.

 

[Measley]

Another data point indicating the February jobs report might be a good one.

I'm increasingly optimistic that February and March will see strong employment reports.

If that happens, the Republican candidates are going to have to double down on the crazy just to look relevant. You can't go around saying that Obama made the country worse, and everything is doom and gloom when everyone is feeling optimistic and feeling that we turned a corner.

I just watched an Obama speech where he was addressing a group of union workers. I think it might have been the UAW. Anyway, the guy is all about optimism and setting out bold initiatives for the future. It just makes you feel good as an American. Contrast that with a Republican stump speech that pretty much says that if Obama gets re-elected, Skynet goes online and we're all doomed. I just don't see that resonating with a lot of people beyond the hard core Obama-haters.

 

[Neuromancer]

I wish some of gaf's more idiotic mouth breathers would realize this. We NEED two functioning parties to create at least some semblance of balance. The republican party going full retard may be good for my side, but it has appalling consequences for democracy.

Too bad there's no solid 3rd party.