Ghost_Protocol
Member
Man, I'm swapping back and forth between The Oreilly Factor and The Ed Show and I cannot decide who the bigger idiots are. The hosts or their guests.
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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
The Librarian
Banned
Because they do?
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
That was Politifacts biggest lie of 2011.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ar-democrats-claims-republicans-voted-end-me/
That's what she said!
The Librarian
Banned
Yeah, well, PolitiFact is wrong on that. Nice try. If I convert my garage into a shed, should I still call it a garage?
The facts are Republicans want to end Medicare.
eBay Huckster
Member
Politifact also rated a statement in February claiming 40% was a majority as "mostly true".
And I'm sure he's said the sky is blue, and water is wet, at some point in his life. Republicans have wanted to end Medicare for decades, and they've tried to end it in two consecutive budgets now, both of which Romney has endorsed. Oh wait, I'm sorry: As we know it.
Politifact is not infallible, as much as they'd like to think they are. They're as shitty and lazy as most journalistic entities in America. The only difference is they focus exclusively on fact checking.
BotoxAgent
Member
as well as every other public safety net that helps the middle class if they had it their way
One has foundation in reality the other doesn't. Lots of Republicans have publicly admitted as a policy to wanting to end medicare including lots of the current party leaders at one point in their lives. Obama's statement was made after an actual act of policy legislation passing on a near party line vote to end medicare in current capacity and/or role. Meanwhile every statement Obama has made is in regards to strengthening medicare and even expanding it to include more people. Saying Obama wants to end medicare is bold face lie with absolute ZERO regard to reality.
That was a weak four-seam over the middle of the plate.
I actually have little idea how Romney would actually govern. He's flip-flopped and equivocated to such a degree that I doubt even he knows. Although, if I were to place a bet, I'd wager on poorly.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
"As we know it" are the key words.
And Factcheck and the Washington Post also called it a lie. So I guess everyone is wrong.
If Politifact released a top 10 lies list that was composed entirely of statements made by Republicans, they'd be accused of partisan hackery and would be tuned out by every right-leaning person in the country, even if the 10 most egregious lies of the year all did come from Republicans.
It's a shame that so many people think that being objective equates to taking a middle path, as though one side can't be far more wrong than the other.
BotoxAgent
Member
Mitt Romney might as well take credit for the auto bailout and bin laden if he's planning to completely erase his past, lol
The Librarian
Banned
Semantics.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I've said it in the NFL thread: He looks like Aaron Rodgers. Coincidentally, they're both from Wisconsin. :O
No, they're not. You can change the Marine Corps into an organization that exclusively gives puppies to sick kids, but they ain't going to be the Marines anymore. That's the same name plastered over something different.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Have you even read the Ryan plan?
It gives the option of a government subsidized private plan or the traditional medicare if you so choose. Why do you hate choice?
Ginsburg and Kennedy, Ginsburg had some health issues and they thought she might step down last year
Ginsburg = Left, Kennedy = Right/Center
Replacing both with Liberals would change the composition of the court and really bind Roberts since he skews to the Right but the majority would be Left
It's not traditional Medicare. First of all, he increases the eligibility age. Second, his plan's premium increases are adjusted by overall inflation, not medical inflation costs. Traditional (sort of) Medicare will be there for a while until the medical CPI rises above it. So it won't die immediately, but die it will.
I hate choices when they're shitty ones provided by shitty people for shitty reasons.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Can we please ban Politifacts?
They are the VG-Chartz of political fact checkers.
This is the second time today someone linked to something that was bullshit by them.
While I can't agree more on this sentence, I disagree that this is what applies to Politifacts.
The site doesn't try to get "the middle ground", it just sucks in general. So many of its conclusions are non-sense.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Oh please. Let's ban everything that we don't agree with.
The Librarian
Banned
You mean aside from IPAB, 500 billion dollars in cuts to provider payments, higher premiums for wealthier seniors, a whole host of cost control reforms in PPACA, and the possibility of raising the retirement age (as offered to Boehner during the debt ceiling debacle)?
Are you serious?
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
You don't think rich people should pay more? Why kind of liberal are you?
Two years of bankrupting medical care matters, you... person. We should be lowering the age, not raising it.
The Librarian
Banned
What in the world are you talking about? Your trolling is so annoying.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
You just said wealthier seniors will be paying higher premiums. What's wrong with that?
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Invisible_Insane
Member
Nah, just pseudo-non-partisan hackery masquerading as journalism.
Premium support is a fundamentally different thing from a single payer system. Stop trolling.
The Librarian
Banned
You're not being serious. You asked for Obama's plan for Medicare. I gave it to you. Now that I've provided you with some facts, you're deflecting with a question. Unbelievable.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Sorry. My bad. I misunderstood. I read too fast. Ryan's plan calls for the same thing.
Invisible_Insane
Member
What's unbelievable about it? It's classic Baggins. Plant the flag on something and then run away to shoot at people trying to capture it.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
You're right. It's more efficient.
I have to stop now anyway. Women are calling. It's going to be a long night.
How the fuck is it more efficient when Medicare has lower administrative costs than private insurance?
Wut? For who is it more efficient? The insurance company profiting off the health of sick citizens? That is the only explanation you could possibly give me that would even begin to make sense. Because it is an absolute FACT we pay more into our current health system and get even less from it on just about every single payer system in the world. More premiums for drugs, more premiums for selective care, hospital visits, preventive care you name it, none of which also leads to bankruptcy of the individual in the single payer system and because it all comes from a single pool it means there is also a cheaper and more balanced system to pay for the services across the board for the nation.
Invisible_Insane
Member
If you listen you can hear the goalposts shifting.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
______________________________________________
I've noticed that this often happens. Bulbo comes out from under the bridge and says something that angers you guys. Then after he gets you all riled up he disappears only to appear again a few hours later. May I give my previous suggestion again so we can save thread space.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
Puddles? I didn't recognize you.
If insurers are forced to compete for seniors' business, health plans will demand lower prices from doctors, hospitals and drug companies. And so on and so on. What is the incentive in the Medicare (I call it Old Medicare) for keeping prices down?
Flying Phoenix. Calm down. Its alright. I sometimes have an opposing view. And..
I'm a busy man. I can't always be here.
Invisible_Insane
Member
Given that the population in question is likely to be one in high need of services, what happens once insurers decide to charge more than the voucher?
This is really great theory that doesn't seem to work in practice. Why do we pay more than every other country in the world for medical care when insurers already have to compete for business in this country?
Anyway, the real way to save costs is to squeeze the pharmaceutical industry and to eliminate unnecessary procedures. Whether we have private insurance or Medicare, it's going to be expensive until we can make the actual care cheaper.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
I think the voucher amounts would act as limiters in a way. Maybe.
RustyNails
Member
Eh. I like having bulboo around
Aaron Strife
Banned
PPP: Obama leading Romney by 8, 51-43, in Nevada. Best numbers since he was elected.
Notably - Obama's approval ratings are 50 approve, 46 disapprove. Romney's favorability ratings are 38 favorable, 51 unfavorable.
Notably - Obama's approval ratings are 50 approve, 46 disapprove. Romney's favorability ratings are 38 favorable, 51 unfavorable.
Invisible_Insane
Member
You think insurance companies will simply elect to charge no more than the amount issued in the government vouchers? Why wouldn't they?
This is why Medicare was invented in the first place. Seniors are particularly unsuitable candidates for private health insurance--no profit-making institution is interested in taking them. The sensible thing to do that every other civilized country does is add younger citizens to the risk pool, driving down costs for everyone. I really do not see how one can rationally oppose this.
Wow, so my 18 year old co-worker today said he voted in the primary the other day. He also let it slip that he voted for Rick Santorum. But he did so because his dad pretty much made him. He didn't know anything about the candidates and didn't think he should vote, but his dad said something like "What, doing what your dad tells you isn't good enough?" And then his dad proceeded to stand right behind him while he voted. What the fuck...
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
Sounds like the kid should go to college and get the shit away from him
Lord_Byron28
Member
And remake him into the Proffesor's liberal image instead of his own father's ?
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