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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
It sounds like you'd like a Balanced Budget Amendment. All that would result in is a draconian cutting of social services. Nobody would be voting for increased taxes or slashing the military budget.

And the goverment would be completely helpless to address economic or military crisis.

If a balanced budget amendment were in place, I believe hte govenrment would have had to sit by and watch as Lehman's bankrupcy snowballed into AIG, Citigroup, Bank of American, General Motors, and god knows what else would have followed.

The emergency relief funds for Katrina wouldn't have been able to be passed without slashing 12 figures off the budget of something else, effective immediately.

A balanced budget amendment would eventually cripple America, becuase hte first crisis to come up will spiral out of control, as the government wil l be constrained by the amendment.
 

Plumbob

Member
Yep. Balanced budget amendments discourage governments from taking any measures that will decrease net government revenue now and increase it substantially later. You'll see a lot less spending on infrastructure, education and research and development.
 

Gruco

Banned
I really like electoral-vote. It made a nice complement to 538 in 08, and has consistently good commentary. I'll need to start checking it more regularly again to watch the Senate map, etc.
 
Hey SuperBonk, sorry if this comes off as me being uninterested in the rest of your post, but...

2) Student Loan Forgiveness Act (HR 4170) - sets up several ways to forgive outstanding federal student loans while capping interest rates on new federal student loans at 3.4%

Could you go into a bit more detail regarding how this bill's supposed to work (i.e., what are the ways loans can be forgiven)?
 

RDreamer

Member
Could you go into a bit more detail regarding how this bill's supposed to work (i.e., what are the ways loans can be forgiven)?


Here's a good summary

The Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 | Rep. Hansen Clarke Key Objectives:


Make student loan repayment both simple and fair
o The bill would create a new “10-10 standard” for student loan forgiveness.
 If you make payments equal to 10% of your discretionary income for 10 years, your remaining federal student loan debt would be forgiven.
 If you have already been making payments on your student loans, your repayment period would likely be shorter than 10 years. The amount you have already paid on your student loans over the past decade would be credited toward meeting the requirement for forgiveness.

o The bill would ensure low interest rates on federal student loans by capping them at 3.4%. o The bill would allow existing borrowers whose educational loan debt exceeds their income to break free from the crushing interest rates of private loans by converting their private loan debt into federal Direct Loans, then enrolling their new federal loans into the 10/10
program.

o The bill would reward graduates for entering public service professions like teaching and
firefighting. It would also provide incentives for medical professionals to work in underserved communities. It would reduce the Public Service Loan Forgiveness requirement to 5 years from its current 10 years.


Jumpstart the economy and create jobs

o The bill would increase millions of Americans’ purchasing power by forgiving debt,
reducing loan repayment burdens, and cutting fees and interest rates. This would free
many of these Americans to invest, buy homes, and start businesses.

o The bill would create jobs by increasing consumer demand for goods and services.


Send a lifeline to student borrowers who have fallen on difficult times

o Many Americans who have fallen behind on payments due to illness, unemployment, or
divorce face continually rising interest rates and compounding fees with no hope of escape.
 The bill seeks to ensure that no one will be pushed into poverty because of a stroke
of bad luck.
 Americans who are behind on their payments would be eligible to enroll in the new
program and bring their payments down to 10% of discretionary income.


Promote financial responsibility in higher education

o While current borrowers would be eligible for full forgiveness under the plan, future
borrowers would be subject to a $45,520 cap on forgiveness (based on the average overall cost of a four-year degree at a public university). The aim is to incentivize students to be mindful of educational costs and for colleges and universities to control tuition increases.

o Provisions of the bill itself would be financed by projected savings from Iraq and Afghanistan Overseas Contingency Operations; the bill would not affect funding for existing student aid programs.
 

SuperBonk

Member
Hey SuperBonk, sorry if this comes off as me being uninterested in the rest of your post, but...



Could you go into a bit more detail regarding how this bill's supposed to work (i.e., what are the ways loans can be forgiven)?

No problem, that was definitely the more interesting of the two and a large part of why so many people showed up for lobby day.

Basically it has 3 proposals:

1) Forgives the remainder of federal student loan debt for any person who has made loan payments of at least 10% of their discretionary income each year for 10 years. There were a few ways "discretionary income" was defined, but I believe the correct definition was any income exceeding 150% of the federal poverty level.

2) Caps interest rate on NEW federal student loans at 3.4% (not retroactive)

3) Same thing was #1, but for students who enter the public service fields, they only need to pay for 5 years instead of 10.

That sounds pretty good, but the amount the bill proposes to forgive is capped at around $45k.

I'm sure you can find out more specifics online.
 
No problem, that was definitely the more interesting of the two and a large part of why so many people should up for lobby day.

Basically it has 3 proposals:

1) Forgives the remainder of federal student loan debt for any person who has made loan payments of at least 10% of their discretionary income each year for 10 years. There were a few ways "discretionary income" was defined, but I believe the correct definition was any income exceeding 150% of the federal poverty level.

2) Caps interest rate on NEW federal student loans at 3.4% (not retroactive)

3) Same thing was #1, but for students who enter the public service fields, they only need to pay for 5 years instead of 10.

That sounds pretty good, but the amount the bill proposes to forgive is capped at around $45k.

I'm sure you can find out more specifics online.

Isn't that $45k cap only on future borrowers, though? (which is to say if this was passed this year I'd be eligible for full forgiveness after 10 years, but not someone who started undergrad in 2013-14, right?)

I'll probably want to actually read the bill in order to figure out how Rep. Clarke defines "current borrower" if only because I'd lobby much harder for this if it meant I'd be covered by those provisions for post-grad education.
 

RDreamer

Member
1) Forgives the remainder of federal student loan debt for any person who has made loan payments of at least 10% of their discretionary income each year for 10 years. There were a few ways "discretionary income" was defined, but I believe the correct definition was any income exceeding 150% of the federal poverty level.

Wait... This confuses me.

Now, according to my findings the federal poverty level for a family of two (I'm married) is $15,130. 150% of that is 22,695. That's... above my current salary. EDIT: Derp, I'd have to use my wife's salary in here too. So anyway, together we make about $44,000, and so subtracted that makes $21,305 for discretionary income. 10% of that is $2,131.

If I use the single person poverty line (I was single for the first 3 years after school), $11,170 150% of that is $16,755. My salary (right now) is $22,000 per year (it's been around that number for the ~4 years since I graduated). Does that mean my discretionary income was $5,585? And that means I'd only have had to pay $559 of that per year in order to qualify?That seems incredibly low.

Also does this mean just federal loans? I have $15,000 in federal and $25,000 in private. I'm pretty sure I paid over the $559 amount to the federal portion every year anyway, but still I've paid way over that in total for a while now. Together know I've hit the $2131 mark for private and federal, but I haven't hit that for just federal nor could I ever afford to...
 
Isn't that $45k cap only on future borrowers, though? (which is to say if this was passed this year I'd be eligible for full forgiveness after 10 years, but not someone who started undergrad in 2013-14, right?)

I'll probably want to actually read the bill in order to figure out how Rep. Clarke defines "current borrower" if only because I'd lobby much harder for this if it meant I'd be covered by those provisions for post-grad education.
I wouldn't be optimistic about that; the Obama administration has been fucking grad students pretty hard.
 

SuperBonk

Member
Isn't that $45k cap only on future borrowers, though? (which is to say if this was passed this year I'd be eligible for full forgiveness after 10 years, but not someone who started undergrad in 2013-14, right?)

I'll probably want to actually read the bill in order to figure out how Rep. Clarke defines "current borrower" if only because I'd lobby much harder for this if it meant I'd be covered by those provisions for post-grad education.

Yeah, it looks like you're right (thanks RDreamer for providing a much better summary). There were a lot of provisions in the bill that no one was really able to clarify for us so it was a lot harder to push than I would have thought. It was a little disappointing since it was the first time I had lobbied for anything. I guess they know nobody takes students seriously (even if they're grad students) and it was really more of a way to set students up for the hardcore lobbying the ADA does.
 
I wouldn't be optimistic about that; the Obama administration has been fucking grad students pretty hard.

Yeah, at this point I think I'm going to be exclusively looking outside the country if only because international tuition seems to be much cheaper than domestic tuition in a lot of cases (plus thanks to a "pre-existing condition" I'd get fucked by the PPACA being overturned if I stayed in the country anyway)
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Obama never STOPPED campaigning. All we know is there will be swings in the polls both directions, something will happen between now and September that will have a big effect and we don't know what it is yet.

When does a President stop campaigning? You make it sound like Obama started the year around campaigning deal.
 

markatisu

Member
Not only that, but they are forgetting that there is a black president in the white house, further upping the amount of minorities that will vote. They also don't poll people through cell phones, I believe. Maybe they have changed that practice, though.

Some have changed but most still don't consider the cell phone a "home phone"

And these polls are all ignoring the census results that showed large minority growth in Iowa, North Carolina, and other states that are in play. All will hurt Romney bad if he can't make some inroads
 
If i'm not mistaken non-white turnout has being going up steadily for each presidential election... to think it would regress is... poor planning
Under 24 voting bloc is going to regress in 2012 for every ethnicity. You know why?

Halo 4 is releasing on election day. DOOM
 
That "check" makes no sense, because it acts as a throttle on the economy. It causes unemployment, which costs magnitudes more economically speaking than inflation (to which there is a ready solution). Moreover, given that the government will deficit spend (and will have to deficit spend in order to grow the economy), the effect of such a "check" is only to increase spending even further. That is because all this "check" really does is require that the government run a national bank (spending program) that grows in size anytime the government deficit spends by the amount of the deficit spending. So not only is the government spending the deficit amount directly, it is on top of that paying interest on that exact amount to people who deposit in the national bank it is required to maintain. So this "check" is a pretty shit check on spending, given that it is a rule requiring the government to increase spending.

It is not unnecessary. See: Weimer Republic.

The bolded sound like contradictory statements. One one hand you argue it causes unemployment but on the other hand you argue it increases spending (which would decrease unemployment). The statements cannot work together. And I don't see how it's possible to believe governments spend more money when they have to tax + borrow to balance their books versus create money with no stipulations.

Interest is the price of money, especially at the government bond level (which is considered risk-free). By the gov't borrowing, it is committing to more spending in the future, but it's also setting the spending rate to its best approximation of inflation. Meaning that if it is always correct, it's not spending any extra money because the money its paying back is devalued. In some cases, it pays back less money than it brought in, adjusted for inflation.



Moreover, if politicians, economists, and economic elites wish to talk about the national bank in these terms, I welcome them doing so. At least they would be being honest instead of pretending that the government's debt is financially problematic and they would be exposed for people whose position ultimately boils down to limiting government spending for the purpose of increasing employer bargaining power and suppressing wages.

It can be problematic because of the system we've designed. Sure, we can change the system, but we haven't and probably shouldn't (in a general sense). In our system the debt can be problematic under the right conditions so to say that people are pretending isn't really correct. If people stop lending to the government, it's a problem within the system. We can then change the system, but money is nothing but a medium of exchange whose value entirely lies in our minds (whether it's fiat or commodity, this holds true) and that matters.

That said, I do agree that we have a too little spending problem right now (or at the very least, intelligent spending) during a down economy and that the notion of debt/deficit being and issue is stupid. Especially given that borrowing is cheaper now that ever...
 

markatisu

Member
Under 24 voting bloc is going to regress in 2012 for every ethnicity. You know why?

Halo 4 is releasing on election day. DOOM

Obama's campaign needs to get together with Gamestop and organize a register to vote/preorder campaign. They would have a whole new segment in the Dudebro lol
 
Hey guys, I don't post in this thread but I lurk here a lot. I was just in DC lobbying for ASDA (American Student Dental Association) as a part of National Dental Student Lobby Day so I thought I'd just share my experiences.

We lobbied for two bills:

1) Breaking Barriers to Oral Health Act (HR 1666) - basically provides funding at the state/local level for oral health programs and preventive care

2) Student Loan Forgiveness Act (HR 4170) - sets up several ways to forgive outstanding federal student loans while capping interest rates on new federal student loans at 3.4%

We made appointments with 3 representatives (Gary Ackerman D-NY, Caroline Maloney D-NY, Jim Gerlach R-PA). Unfortunately we didn't actually get to meet with any of them in person, though I did get to walk past Maloney and Kucinich, for what it's worth. I think there was a vote on the House floor at the time of the latter two appointments.

Their staffers seemed nice enough, but I kind of got the feeling that they were just trying to humor us at times. Ackerman's office was the most receptive, while Gerlach's seemed the least (as expected - I really tried the push the "this is beneficial for small businesses" talking point).

It was my 2nd visit to DC and it seems like a very nice place, though I hear the outskirts get much worse.

I was probably most disappointed with ASDA itself in the sense that its members seemed a lot more conservative than I would have thought. I guess it's understandable but it was still a stark contrast from the generally progressive atmosphere at my dental school (NYU), along with the entire university itself (which I attended for undergrad).

We seriously need some kind of real loan forgiveness for PTs as well as an interest rate cap.

I believe the APTA has been pushing this for years but it has nowhere near the muscle that the AMA has.
 
European Banks Are Deleveraging Big-Time: Is America Doomed As A Result?

Last December there was a lot of concern that European financial chaos could kill the American economy. Then came several months of strong growth in the United States. But more recently, America's economic numbers have turned sour again. What explains it? I'm beginning to worry that it may be the return of Euromageddon. Specifically, the latest IMF financial stability report sees massive $2.6 trillion in deleveraging by European banks over the next 18 months.

The problem here for non-Europeans is that a fair amount of domestic American credit is actually laundered through Europe by European banks who raise funds in the US wholesale market and then lend them back to US borrowers. The upshot is that a banking squeeze in Europe can squeeze credit availability in the United States which could explain the otherwise puzzling failure of the United States to respond to steadily rising rents with new multifamily house construction.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/04/18/european_bank_deleveraging.html

Yup
 
Bill Maher should buy ad time for that. Minus the cursing.. would be amazing to see it on a commercial break.

You can curse in political ads, as I believe the FCC exempts political ads from broadcast standards. In the campaign for the presidency between Carter, Reagan and John Anderson, there was an ad for some even-smaller (Libertarian?) candidate that simply showed, as the text was also spoken, the words "Carter. Reagan. Anderson. It's bullshit. It's just all bullshit."
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
CNN sent me this:
There is an ideological split among Republicans over who should be presumptive presidential nominee Mitt Romney's running mate, according to a CNN/ORC International Poll released Wednesday.

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice tops the list of those presented with a list of possibilities, with 26%. Rick Santorum, Romney's chief rival in the GOP presidential race, was the top pick of 21%. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie were tied at 14%.

But among self-described tea party supporters, Rubio is the top choice, with 22%, and Christie is second, with 18%. Rice and Santorum drop into a tie for third place.

Among Republicans who say they aren't tea party supporters, 36% say Rice is their choice, and one in four say they prefer Santorum. Christie barely cracks double digits, and Rubio is in single digits among non-tea party supporters.
I didn't even know Rice was being considered. She would be an outstanding choice.

The reversal in the remaining options across the GOP divide is pretty striking.
 

Mike M

Nick N
Condi Rice has been floated before, she claims she's not interested. I think she'd be a really cagey pick, despite Jackson's claims that the VP slot choice can only offer no meaningful benefit to the ticket at best and detriment at worst.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the latest in a string of "Oh, Romney!" controversies, Cookiegate Controversy

The small town stir began Tuesday at a community center event when Romney paused to take note of the desserts while sitting down at a picnic table.

"I'm not sure about these cookies. They don't look like you made them," Romney said to the woman sitting next to him "No, no. They came from the local 7-eleven, bakery, or whatever."

The comments quickly spread on Twitter, with some pointing to the remarks as an example of Romney being out of touch to the point of confusing 7-11 with a bakery.
 
Wasn't Christie apart of the Bush Administration as well? New Jersey had no problem electing him into office.

He was a fundraiser for Bush in 2000 while working as a lobbyist, he then was a U.S. attorney for New Jersey from 2002-2008. His connection to Bush is very minor, where as Rice was about as senior a Bush official as it gets.
 
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