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[Byakuya769]

I see A27 was banned. I'm guessing it had to do with this post:



I never understood people like him, and him being 19 isn't an excuse for his asinine posts. He can research his arguments, but I think his problem is that he watches Fox News and takes the TP to every thread he posts on GAF.

Oh well. Maybe this'll teach him a lesson.

I tried to warn him about how "versed" he appeared on Iran, but the people who know the least think they know the most.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Fuck, Romney really is approaching Whitman 2.0 (Meg Whitman ended up being mathematically unelectable via her favorables) with these favorables. Now they just need to add a "likely to change their opinion" question to seal the deal:

@ppppolls: Romney's favorability nationally is now 29/57, including 32/55 with independents

 

[GhaleonEB]

Fuck, Romney really is approaching Whitman 2.0 (Meg Whitman ended up being mathematically unelectable via her favorables) with these favorables. Now they just need to add a "likely to change their opinion" question to seal the deal:

Looking back at his trend, PPP had his favorable at 35/53 at this time last month. Which was horrific, but he's managed to deteriorate even further. The trend lines in the graph I linked are amazing. As Manmademan said earlier, his scorched earth run at Florida won him the state, but it's going to be tough to recover from the fallout.

 

[The Librarian]

I see A27 was banned. I'm guessing it had to do with this post:



I never understood people like him, and him being 19 isn't an excuse for his asinine posts. He can research his arguments, but I think his problem is that he watches Fox News and takes the TP to every thread he posts on GAF.

Oh well. Maybe this'll teach him a lesson.

He got banned for what he said in the Confederacy thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35128734&postcount=434

 

[Chichikov]

Reading it I can't figure out what his point is. I did enjoy this contrast though:


Then something about evil unions and the need to punish them.

I think the key term here is secured creditors.
As far as I can tell, he's pissed that we put pensions and workers ahead of banks and investors (which would explain why he supported bankruptcy, as secured creditors takes precedence in that situation).

Good luck union bosses running on that in the general union bosses election, but who knows, maybe you can union bosses enough dog whistle words there for people to get confused about what you're really saying.

p.s.
Union bosses.

 

[gcubed]

yeah it was the slavery thread, but it was still the same reason. He's very ignorant... and vehemently defends his ignorance.

 

[Byakuya769]

He got banned for what he said in the Confederacy thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35128734&postcount=434

That was bullshit then. People shouldn't get banned for having stupid opinions. Plus, he was actually discussing said stupid opinion.

 

[GhaleonEB]

He got banned for what he said in the Confederacy thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35128734&postcount=434

Holy SHIT at his posts in that thread. GG, Bish.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Reading that thread is like watching a blind deaf person with their foot stuck on the tracks of railroad with an oncoming freight train. You are just waiting for it to be over with.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Who is A27?

He was me when I first joined PoliGAF but a bit more closed minded and much more pro Israeli govt.

 

[Chichikov]

That was bullshit then. People shouldn't get banned for having stupid opinions. Plus, he was actually discussing said stupid opinion.

There are stupid opinions and then there is supporting the confederacy.
I'm perfectly fine with a zero tolerance policy toward the latter.

I hope he isn't permabanned though, as he seemed genuinely willing to engage in a conversation, so there might still be hope for him.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

A new Public Policy Polling (D) survey shows that former Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) does a bit better against President Obama in national matchup at the moment -- Obama gets 49 percent to Santorum's 44, while former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney only sees 42 percent support to Obama 49 nationally.

“One of Mitt Romney’s strongest arguments has always been that he would be the toughest GOP opponent for Barack Obama,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling in a release. “It no longer looks like that’s necessarily the case.”

Santorum is viewed more favorably by Americans than Romney by about ten points. They are both under water on the metirc -- only 29 percent of Americans have a favorable view of Romney against 57 percent who see him in a negative light, versus a much closer 39 - 46 split for Santorum. That's pretty big improvement for Santorum, who saw a 30 - 51 split on favorability in January and wasn't even tested by PPP's in December national poll. Romney was at 35 - 53 in January and 35 -50 in December, when he lead Obama in PPP's national numbers.

The TPM Poll Average shows the President with a 6.9 percent lead on Romney currently.

Now, I know that Santorum isn't going to be our next President but holy depression and horror of horrors if he were to sit behind that Oval Office, EVER. My gawd.

 

[Puddles]

He was me when I first joined PoliGAF but a bit more closed minded and much more pro Israeli govt.

You were a Republican?

I was one too until I turned about 19 or 20. I used to defend Bush all the time.

Actually I didn't become firmly liberal until I started traveling.

 

[mckmas8808]

Looking back at his trend, PPP had his favorable at 35/53 at this time last month. Which was horrific, but he's managed to deteriorate even further. The trend lines in the graph I linked are amazing. As Manmademan said earlier, his scorched earth run at Florida won him the state, but it's going to be tough to recover from the fallout.

So is anybody on his team actually aware of this? And if so what can they tell Romney to help this situation in the GE?

 

[Zzoram]

I just want Romney to lose the nomination. It would give me hope that money and being anointed by the media can be overcome by voters in future elections.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

You were a Republican?

I was one too until I turned about 19 or 20. I used to defend Bush all the time.

Actually I didn't become firmly liberal until I started traveling.

Yes sir. When I first joined PoliGAF I had voted for John McCain in 2008. I was against gay marriage, universal health care, pro Iraq war if you will, etc.

 

[Zzoram]

Wow. I didn't think right wingers ever converted. Honestly, I kinda thought nobody ever switched stances on issues. People always seem so firm in their positions.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes sir. When I first joined PoliGAF I had voted for John McCain in 2008. I was against gay marriage, universal health care, pro Iraq war if you will, etc.

Why did your beliefs change on gay marriage (seriously why can't we all call it marriage equality)?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Fuck America! I'm starting my own country. FN for life!

Yes sir. When I first joined PoliGAF I had voted for John McCain in 2008. I was against gay marriage, universal health care, pro Iraq war if you will, etc.

This explains why so many juniors tend to be right and religious. Yet so many members tend to be left and atheist. Nothing gets people more educated than being in conversation with "intellectuals" and the educated.

Wow. I didn't think right wingers ever converted. Honestly, I kinda thought nobody ever switched stances on issues. People always seem so firm in their positions.

People are so firm on their positions because they indulge the same media over and over again, talk with their idiotic friends, and think that their opinion is valid even though they don't know what they are talking about.

Shit won't fly on this message board, especially one that is also populated by the center Europeans and the left Latin Americans.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Yes sir. When I first joined PoliGAF I had voted for John McCain in 2008. I was against gay marriage, universal health care, pro Iraq war if you will, etc.

Yeah I would always get you and SlipperySlope mixed up back then.

 

[Puddles]

Wow. I didn't think right wingers ever converted. Honestly, I kinda thought nobody ever switched stances on issues. People always seem so firm in their positions.

I'd rather lose an argument and come out more knowledgeable than "win" an argument with logical fallacies that no one calls out and still be wrong.

I was extremely libertarian for years, and I tended to lean right on our political spectrum. I might have even spouted off a line about "job creators" at some point.

 

[Wray]

The main reason the GOP took power in 2010 is because the people who vote in 2008 and 2012 don't vote in midterms

It had nothing to do with any wave or great rebel against Obama and the Dems, the GOP just has better "regular" voters since they target the more reliable groups (Whites 45-70)

This.

Elections are all about demographics.

Lower turnout always favors Republicans, and midterm elections always have much lower turnout than a GE.

 

[Manmademan]

Now, I know that Santorum isn't going to be our next President but holy depression and horror of horrors if he were to sit behind that Oval Office, EVER. My gawd.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how on earth 44% of this country thinks President Santorum is a good idea.

44%.

Somewhere, the educational system, media, wherever you want to lay the blame has failed miserably in teaching americans to think critically.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Why did your beliefs change on gay marriage (seriously why can't we all call it marriage equality)?

Honestly, it was the thread with the CA beauty queen stating she believes marriage is between one man and one woman. I'm not sure who posted it but it was a quote from Loretta Scott King stating if her husband was alive today, he'd support gay marriage due to it's connection with equal rights. That was pretty much the catalyst.

 

[Suikoguy]

So is anybody on his team actually aware of this? And if so what can they tell Romney to help this situation in the GE?

What can he do? Be more moderate, lose the primary?

 

[speculawyer]

Hey guys, I've missed you all.

I took a break from politics mostly.

Looks like you got another vacation. That was quick. Ah well.


Detroit Free Press reporter tears apart Romney's rhetoric about the auto-bailouts. He seems to be pretty fair about it.

Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney renewed his opposition to the Obama administration's bailout of General Motors and Chrysler today in several Michigan newspapers, contending President Obama's rescue made the companies worse. I wish I could leave politics to the professionals, but Romney's take just doesn't square with the facts as I lived them. Here's why:

Romney's a Michigan native; his father George Romney was a well-liked governor and head of American Motors. Yet Romney is neck-and-neck with rival Rick Santorum in polls ahead of Michigan's Feb. 28 primary in no small part because of his opposition in November 2008 to the bailouts that saved GM, Chrysler and thousands of Michigan jobs.

I covered those bailouts in Washington as a reporter for the Detroit Free Press, following them through Congress to the White House to the bankruptcy courts a few blocks off Wall Street. As a first-hand witness, I can attest that some of Romney's new arguments hold their own — but most don't. Let me explain, point by point:

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motora...ng-detroit-automakers-bailouts-154006392.html

 

[speculawyer]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how on earth 44% of this country thinks President Santorum is a good idea.

44%.

I think a lot of people still don't know much about him. His debate performances are OK and he has tried to tone down the culture warrior stuff a little. But upon more scrutiny, I think that number would drop to the 30s. And those would be the same hardcore 30 some percent that were still saying George W. Bush as great at the end of his administration. That is the 'anyone who doesn't oppose abortion is evil' crowd.

 

[speculawyer]

p.s. Ron Paul 2012 as a third party candidate. He has nothing to lose as his seat goes buh byes next year.

So the GOP redistricted him out of his seat? That would be pretty hilarious poetic justice if then ran as a 3rd party candidate.

 

[Aaron Strife]

This.

Elections are all about demographics.

Lower turnout always favors Republicans, and midterm elections always has much lower turnout than a GE.

That definitely had an influence, but Independents did swing heavily against Democrats. If Democrats turned out in 06/08 numbers they would have saved some seats but probably not enough for the majority.

I still can't believe what an epic failure Romney has been. I'm actually pretty bullish on Santorum's chances but Romney is still the establishment choice, so he'll remain a top contender. There was a poll out the other day from Joe Donnelly's campaign that had Obama trailing Romney by just four... in Indiana. For a state that most pundits/analysts have written off, that's pretty decent.

House polling I suspect will come around. GOP didn't start posting massive leads in the generic ballot until August-ish 2010. Most pollsters had it tied up to that point.

 

[mckmas8808]

What can he do? Be more moderate, lose the primary?

But that's the thing. Will he "really" lose the primary to Santorum if he pushed for independents to like him more now?

I don't think he'd lose in the primary. Mitt needs to fix this now! He can't wait until the GE. At this rate his favorables will be below 20%.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm amazed at Mitt Romney.

He criticizes Obama for failing to address our "entitlement crises" then...attacks Obama for cutting entitlements.

This man is amazing.

 

[Allard]

I think a lot of people still don't know much about him. His debate performances are OK and he has tried to tone down the culture warrior stuff a little. But upon more scrutiny, I think that number would drop to the 30s. And those would be the same hardcore 30 some percent that were still saying George W. Bush as great at the end of his administration. That is the 'anyone who doesn't oppose abortion is evil' crowd.

The funny thing is Romney really can't attack Santorum on the virtues on why he is unelectable in the General Election without pissing off that portion of the base. His only hope is Newt goes Nuclear on Santorum instead, or other 'establishment' that don't need to worry about getting elected. Right now Santorum hasn't gotten much full on media exposure due to his lack of money (can't get lots of ads) and the media thinking he is a joke candidate most of the election cycle. But because of that he has an impressive ground game and being the evangelical candidate of choice gives him word of mouth exposure that goes underneath the radar. In the end he comes off a staunch social conservative believes in the things he says and can't be called a phoney which is the exact opposite aura Romney gives off. You mix this all with Romney downward spiral and I don't know why people didn't think the electorate wouldn't start flocking to Santorum. When Romney looks more and more like he can't win the GE, they will migrate to the person that most defines the current base, why vote for someone you don't like if he can't even win anyways?

 

[Black Republican]

I'm amazed at Mitt Romney.

He criticizes Obama for failing to address our "entitlement crises" then...attacks Obama for cutting entitlements.

This man is amazing.

was his father a flip flopper or something? it that were to run in the family lol wow

 

[RDreamer]

Wow. I didn't think right wingers ever converted. Honestly, I kinda thought nobody ever switched stances on issues. People always seem so firm in their positions.

I converted too when I was in my sophomore year in college. I used to be pretty right wing, like my dad. I voted for Bush the first time I could vote, too. I also remember before I could vote really loving Alan Keyes when he ran for president in 2000.... yeah...

I was never really against gay marriage... kind of. I always thought they should have civil unions and should be fighting for that. After a while that stance looked dumber and dumber for many reasons.

Other than that I was pretty free market and almost libertarian in a way. I thought if the government took their hands off things then the market could and would solve itself. It made a lot of sense back then.

I changed for a number of reasons. For one I had a friend I met in college that was pretty liberal and I had a lot of good conversations with him. And I saw him staunchly defending his views against pretty well everyone else, since I went to a religious college. He would kick their asses in pretty much every debate, and so my own views started waning. Then I also started heavily looking things up online and following discussions. It's hard to keep a view when it's something that isn't even given any discourse because it's so outrageously laughable to almost everyone in a thread. The people in that college also mostly disgusted me with their views and how unmovable they were, even in the face of good reasoning. And they were really just so hard right at times that it was scary. So they forced me further left.

I changed my views on the free market when I started taking marketing and business classes and really got a grasp on the way the business world works and how I thought it should work. And just hearing numerous awful examples of when the free market fails tends to help.

 

[speculawyer]

Palin has been saying the GOP nomination fight should continue for a long time and be a drawn-out fight. And she's mentioned the possibility of a brokered convention.

I wonder if she is delusional enough to think that she could be the queen to rise up and unite the GOP behind her as a true conservative with lots of charisma. I think she is that delusional.

 

[Wray]

That definitely had an influence, but Independents did swing heavily against Democrats. If Democrats turned out in 06/08 numbers they would have saved some seats but probably not enough for the majority.

You're overestimating how important Independents are.

9/10 people who call themselves Independents or are registered as such, ALWAYS vote down party line regardless. In fact, I dont even know any true independents, other than people who dont care about politics at all and never vote, even in GE's.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm amazed at Mitt Romney.

He criticizes Obama for failing to address our "entitlement crises" then...attacks Obama for cutting entitlements.

This man is amazing.

Heh, I was just about to post the same link. That's got to be a record for him.

RE: A27. Funny thing is, once he started posting in the PoliGAF thread, he sent me a PM asking for advice. My advice was to be ready to back up claims an opinions, because there were lots of folks who would push back on unsubstantiated BS. Should have taken my advice, dude!

 

[BotoxAgent]

I'm amazed at Mitt Romney.

He criticizes Obama for failing to address our "entitlement crises" then...attacks Obama for cutting entitlements.

This man is amazing.

The amount verbal jiujitsu this guy has to concoct every day is pretty astounding--almost to the point of parody.

 

[Jackson50]

I think a lot of people still don't know much about him. His debate performances are OK and he has tried to tone down the culture warrior stuff a little. But upon more scrutiny, I think that number would drop to the 30s. And those would be the same hardcore 30 some percent that were still saying George W. Bush as great at the end of his administration. That is the 'anyone who doesn't oppose abortion is evil' crowd.

Right. Once people are introduced to "man on dog" and his extreme social conservatism, his favorability ratings should plummet. He'll only appeal to the hardcore, strident social conservatives.

I tried to warn him about how "versed" he appeared on Iran, but the people who know the least think they know the most.

He lacked even a modicum of internal consistency. And this was probably because he oscillated from conservative talking point to platitude in a vicious cycle. It was painfully apparent when he inserted the Obama is weak/apologetic argument into the debate.

 

[Dude Abides]

Here is a pretty great blogpost about Mitt Romney and the "authenticity" problem.

http://crookedtimber.org/2012/02/13/mitt-romney-and-the-fallacy-of-political-authenticity/

All of this is a crock. We—the astute writers noted above, and pretty much everybody else too—are fetishizing one of modernity’s most potent fantasies: that there is a deeply internalized “authenticity” which dramatically reveals our true, inner selves. Yes, we want to know, truly know, who these people are and who can blame us? And the task of excavating this “authenticity” seems especially urgent in the case of those few who wish to be our president. But we’re on the wrong track and we’ve been on it for a long time.

Still, we look for the key—a child’s sled, undiagnosed depression, an absent Kenyan father, an auto crash, a religious zealotry so destabilizing it can never be discussed. I’ve got my theory, too, about Romney. But it has to do with the public words of a very publicly significant person and his weighing the necessity of propitiating various constituencies, not the authentic nucleus of him which remains just beyond our ken. I can summarize my theory in those four words I noted at the outset: “Democratic party” from December, and “Democrat party” from just six weeks later.

 

[turnbuckle]

Our great malaise

A lot of people don't follow the election until the candidates are set and the political ads are out in full force - not to mention the hype built up from the conventions. I'm sure enthusiasm will be down regardless, but I'd bet comparing August 2012 to August 2008 the numbers will look better than this. Heck, Palin wasn't even nominated to be McCain's running mate until the last week of August.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Maybe I heard this wrong, but if the Buffet tax was implemented, it would only bring in $1.5 trillion of revenue over the next ten years? That........doesn't sound like a lot when you factor in the increase of spending over the 10 years. =\

How much revenue would be collected over the next 10 years if the Bush tax cuts expired for everyone?

 

[Mike M]

Palin has been saying the GOP nomination fight should continue for a long time and be a drawn-out fight. And she's mentioned the possibility of a brokered convention.

I wonder if she is delusional enough to think that she could be the queen to rise up and unite the GOP behind her as a true conservative with lots of charisma. I think she is that delusional.

Nah, this is the woman who resigned half way through her first term as governor because she recognized she could make more money as a commentator. She's willfully ignorant, but it's unlikely she's forgotten being raked over the coals as a VP nominee and all the attendant headaches that went with it (I.e. who owns the wardrobe, etc.). She wouldn't want to subject herself to that again AND give up her meal ticket.

She maaaaaay picture herself a possible kingmaker at the convention or something.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Palin has been saying the GOP nomination fight should continue for a long time and be a drawn-out fight. And she's mentioned the possibility of a brokered convention.

I wonder if she is delusional enough to think that she could be the queen to rise up and unite the GOP behind her as a true conservative with lots of charisma. I think she is that delusional.

What better way to get the nomination without working for it!

She just doesn't like Romney, that's the overall point here.

 

[ToxicAdam]

http://crookedtimber.org/2012/02/13/mitt-romney-and-the-fallacy-of-political-authenticity/

I enjoyed that, especially the first part about the fruitless search of finding the "real candidate". The middle part where he breaks down the difference between the semantics of 'Democrat' and 'Democratic' is over the top, but it's broader point is right on (Romney has made clear move to pander to the base more). His final analysis of how Romney will govern is good too. It's going to look a lot like he has governed before, accept that he will be steadfast against nationalized health care reform.

 

[GaimeGuy]

People are so firm on their positions because they indulge the same media over and over again, talk with their idiotic friends, and think that their opinion is valid even though they don't know what they are talking about.

Shit won't fly on this message board, especially one that is also populated by the center Europeans and the left Latin Americans.

Except I've noticed that almost all conservatives on gaf stay out of poliGAF threads. If you made a thread in OT right now abou t th eupcoming budget, I guarantee you'd get tons of conservatives showing up talkign about obama's spending and whatnot who never show up in poligaf (and never showed up when i t was on OT).

Even on this forum the echo chamber applies because conservatives avoid PoliGAF.

 

[speculawyer]

Fuck, Romney really is approaching Whitman 2.0 (Meg Whitman ended up being mathematically unelectable via her favorables) with these favorables. Now they just need to add a "likely to change their opinion" question to seal the deal:

"@ppppolls: Romney's favorability nationally is now 29/57, including 32/55 with independents"

Wait . . . am I reading that right? Romney now has a majority of unfavorable rating?

Wow. What was it? Flip-flopping wasn't new. I'm wondering if it is the 13.9% tax rate plus Cayman Island and Swiss bank accounts? I still think that is a tough sell on people who are paying (or think they are paying) a higher rate.

 

[Zzoram]

I enjoyed that, especially the first part about the fruitless search of finding the "real candidate". The middle part where he breaks down the difference between the semantics of 'Democrat' and 'Democratic' is over the top, but it's broader point is right on (Romney has made clear move to pander to the base more). His final analysis of how Romney will govern is good too. It's going to look a lot like he has governed before, accept that he will be steadfast against nationalized health care reform.

Why do people think Romney won't stay right wing if he wins? There will be tons of pressure on him to stay right wing.

 

[ToxicAdam]

How much revenue would be collected over the next 10 years if the Bush tax cuts expired for everyone?

At least 3.3 trillion. Even more if Congress 'does nothing' on a bunch of other assorted tax cuts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...h-71-trillion/2011/08/25/gIQAmfIIYN_blog.html

Why do people think Romney won't stay right wing if he wins? There will be tons of pressure on him to stay right wing.

Romney is right wing. When he governed in Massachussets he was still right wing. He is only viewed as 'lefty' in the eyes of the most hardcore Republican right.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm amazed at Mitt Romney.

He criticizes Obama for failing to address our "entitlement crises" then...attacks Obama for cutting entitlements.

This man is amazing.

But here is the more amazing thing . . . I think that might be a successful tact by him.

And by “internal”, I mean in the same paragraph:

“This week, President Obama will release a budget that won’t take any meaningful steps toward solving our entitlement crisis,” Romney said in a statement e-mailed to reporters. “The president has failed to offer a single serious idea to save Social Security and is the only president in modern history to cut Medicare benefits for seniors”.​

Yep, Obama has failed to resolve the problem of excessive entitlement spending; furthermore, he’s cutting entitlement spending!

He is still in the GOP nomination process. And when they hear that, they don't hear any contradiction. Medicare is, to them, something they paid for their whole lives and are now getting fair & square (even though that is not true). "Entitlements" are something that those dirty lazy poor people get who don't really deserve but feel they are 'entitled' to. So as contradictory as the statement is, I believe it resonates with 65+ year old white people (the GOP base).